Does anyone know why the split of eastbound I-64 and southbound I-77 (WV Turnpike) at Beckley is configured the way it is?
http://g.co/maps/4uf49
The two routes split, but run parallel to one another separated by a jersey barrier for at least a half-mile up to the point where I-64's lanes actually divert.
Makes little sense to me to have to have it configured this way.
If I remember correctly from what I've heard, it was because in the past they tolled the I-64 offramp.
Perhaps they wanted the gore at the end of a long straight section for better visibility?
Two reasons.
As noted, the original plan was for there to be an exit toll for 64. Thus the mile and a half could handle the backup that would cause, without dangerous backup on 77. Second, remember that the turnpike was (sadly, as the accident prone part further north shows) rebuilt by adding a second set of lanes beside the existing two lane road. The current south bound lane was the original turnpike, at that point a three lane deal. They had the space and went with it.
If I remember right I-64 was completed before the second set of lanes on the turnpike. I-64 in 85-86 time frame and second set of lanes in the 87-88 time frame. Not a WV native so I'm guessing as I was so, so happy when I-64 was completed. Had family in VA at the time and it saved alot of time.
Quote from: ShawnP on May 21, 2012, 08:45:12 AM
If I remember right I-64 was completed before the second set of lanes on the turnpike. I-64 in 85-86 time frame and second set of lanes in the 87-88 time frame. Not a WV native so I'm guessing as I was so, so happy when I-64 was completed. Had family in VA at the time and it saved alot of time.
I'm not sure of the exact year that that segment of the Turnpike was dualized, but the segment of I-64 between I-77 and Sam Black Church was opened in 1988.
Quote from: hbelkins on May 21, 2012, 01:25:13 AM
Does anyone know why the split of eastbound I-64 and southbound I-77 (WV Turnpike) at Beckley is configured the way it is?
http://g.co/maps/4uf49
Another interesting thing it appears the I-64 side of the barrier gets 3 lanes, while the I-77 side only has 2 lanes....
Quote from: ShawnP on May 21, 2012, 08:45:12 AM
If I remember right I-64 was completed before the second set of lanes on the turnpike. I-64 in 85-86 time frame and second set of lanes in the 87-88 time frame. Not a WV native so I'm guessing as I was so, so happy when I-64 was completed. Had family in VA at the time and it saved alot of time.
Nope. The Turnpike's 4 lane rebuild was completed in 1987, and this section in 1985. I-64 was completed in 1988. As the Turnpike was finished the now multplexed part was signed as just 77, with a blank spot for 64, as the logical alternative for 64 involved a totally different route.
iSN'T iNTERSTATE 66 SUPPOSED TO END IN bECKLEY?
nO
Quote from: NE2 on May 21, 2012, 05:43:23 PM
nO
I just read an article on I-66 and it said that I-66 is supposed to intersect at Beckly.
Oh, Beckly. Yeah, it's going there. Not Beckley.
Quote from: sr641 on May 21, 2012, 05:55:07 PM
Quote from: NE2 on May 21, 2012, 05:43:23 PM
nO
I just read an article on I-66 and it said that I-66 is supposed to intersect at Beckly.
See, you're confusing the issue. I-66 is a concept. It's basically a Federal version of Fictional Highways. If it ever actually gets designed, there's a good chance it would not end in Beckley. But yes, early concepts have considered ending at I-77 in that general area.
Quote from: Mr_Northside on May 21, 2012, 03:01:24 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 21, 2012, 01:25:13 AM
Does anyone know why the split of eastbound I-64 and southbound I-77 (WV Turnpike) at Beckley is configured the way it is?
http://g.co/maps/4uf49
Another interesting thing it appears the I-64 side of the barrier gets 3 lanes, while the I-77 side only has 2 lanes....
The third lane gets added right where the I-64 lanes split away from I-77. Then the left lane ends near where the traffic from northbound I-77 merges in.
Quote from: Steve on May 21, 2012, 08:50:49 PM
Quote from: sr641 on May 21, 2012, 05:55:07 PM
Quote from: NE2 on May 21, 2012, 05:43:23 PM
nO
I just read an article on I-66 and it said that I-66 is supposed to intersect at Beckly.
See, you're confusing the issue. I-66 is a concept. It's basically a Federal version of Fictional Highways. If it ever actually gets designed, there's a good chance it would not end in Beckley. But yes, early concepts have considered ending at I-81 I-77 in that general area.
You mean I-77, not I-81, right?
Doubt there will ever be any I-66 construction in West Virginia other than what's necessary to connect it to Kentucky's portion. Kentucky's current plan is for I-66's eastern terminus to be at the four-lane US 52 King Coal Highway.
There was a congressional battle over I-66's routing, and I-79, I-64 and the BG and WK parkways lost. I-66 now is primarily a southern Kentucky route, but honestly I don't see a need for anything other than maybe a Hazard-to-Pikeville route and a new Mississippi River bridge. The Hal Rogers Parkway, KY 80, Cumberland Parkway and US 68/KY 80 are perfectly fine routes.
I think part of the reason for the configuration is the uphill grade heading south/east. The actual split occurs at the top of a long grade, which could be diddficult for some trucks. In a normal situation, and like many other parts of the Turnpike/I-77, a third (Climbing) lane is added for trucks. The same could have been done here, but that could have created a difficult weave at the top of a hill if a truck was going slow in the right lane and had to suddenly exit left to follow I-64. By locating the split at the bottom of the hill, trucks can stay in the right lane on either roadway to follow thier intended route without having to weave at slow speeds. I think this may have more to do with the configuration than the toll setup, which was being eliminated about the time the interchange was being rebuilt.
http://goo.gl/maps/dzIV8
Something similar happens on southbound I-75 at the exit to westbound I-64. the exit lane begins way in advance of the interchange and is separated from the I-75 lanes for a good distance by a jersey barrier. I don't quite understand this and if it had been me, I would have not designed the exit in this manner, but would have left the lanes together right up to the gore, without the barrier.
Do you believe KyDOT did this to slow traffic down entering I-64 west because of the close proximity of the railroad overpass to the exit ramp?
I know I'm dusting off a 4.5 year old thread, but there are some interesting history and design features that pose a question, and I've at least been through the area (albeit not a native living here for 30+ years). Expect a few dumb questions.
-It was noted before here that the section in question opened in 1985, and a second set of lanes (which I assume became the I-64 exit) opened in 1987, with I-64 between Exits 121 (or maybe 124/125?) to 156 opening in 1988. My question is, in that one year time frame between 1987 and 1988, was exit 40 a stub to the East Beckley Bypass/US 19 (I-64's Exit 124), or was it left unopened until I-64 was completed?
-The location of this split is also really strange for I-77 SB traffic. Why would a downhill grade be good for a major interchange? I mean, you do have better visibility, but wouldn't this still pose an issue for trucks? If I was in control, I'd place it a mile or so south, because there's enough flat land to the south of the interchange (around the Fitzpatrick Road area) that might be better suited for the sake of trucks, and it would remove that little curve on I-64 just to the east of the interchange. The curve in question. (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7374117,-81.1867903,16z)
-It's also curious as to why I-77 NB doesn't have this setup. It looks like the interchange was designed for I-77 SB traffic, but it wouldn't hurt to lay down some dual lanes on I-77 NB, right?
You have it totally backwards. I-64, was left uncompleted from MP 156 to the JCT with I-77 for many decades. It was opened all at once, in June 1988, with one exception. Exit 124 was not finished, It was bagged over for, IIRC, more than a year.
The exit set up from 77 to 64 was just bagged over until 64 was opened.
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 25, 2017, 03:11:45 AM
-The location of this split is also really strange for I-77 SB traffic. Why would a downhill grade be good for a major interchange? I mean, you do have better visibility, but wouldn't this still pose an issue for trucks? If I was in control, I'd place it a mile or so south, because there's enough flat land to the south of the interchange (around the Fitzpatrick Road area) that might be better suited for the sake of trucks, and it would remove that little curve on I-64 just to the east of the interchange. The curve in question. (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7374117,-81.1867903,16z)
The interchange is in rough terrain. Piney Creek limits options to the north. The interchange is basically built in a gap, which minimized earthmoving compared to if it was built further south.
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 25, 2017, 03:11:45 AM
-It's also curious as to why I-77 NB doesn't have this setup. It looks like the interchange was designed for I-77 SB traffic, but it wouldn't hurt to lay down some dual lanes on I-77 NB, right?
There was no need for dual lanes for I-77 NB. There is a toll plaza between I-64 and the Ghent Road exit so there'd be no need to collect a separate toll here. There's no need for a separate climbing lane for I-64 since it's not a left exit and, if I recall correctly, I-77 NB is relatively flat through here.
This exit opened during the phase-out of exit ("side") tolls. But I don't know if an Interstate-to-Interstate exit tolls were a thing anyway since the WV Turnpike never connected to any other interstate.
Alright, so here's how I see the situation in a chronological order.
-Early '70s: I-64 in the eastern part of the state is completed west to US 60 (Exit 156).
-1985: This section of the WV Turnpike was completed, but did not have the dual lanes segment at Exit 40.
-1987: The dual lanes setup at Exit 40 is constructed and completed. Between this time period and June 1988, the exits for future I-64 are covered.
-June 1988: I-64 opens between Exits 121 to 156.
-Mid 1989: Exit 124 on I-64 is constructed.
So basically, Exit 40 remained unused for about a year or so, and it wasn't a stub in order to access US 19 via the East Beckley Bypass (I-64's Exit 124). It opened when I-64 had been completed east towards Lewisburg.
Quote from: SP Cook on July 25, 2017, 09:02:28 AM
You have it totally backwards. I-64, was left uncompleted from MP 156 to the JCT with I-77 for many decades. It was opened all at once, in June 1988, with one exception. Exit 124 was not finished, It was bagged over for, IIRC, more than a year.
The exit set up from 77 to 64 was just bagged over until 64 was opened.
Then there could not have ever been a toll both there. Because I remember being on that ramp in August of 1989 just 14 months later and there was no toll booth.
It was built for the provision for but never implemented. The Turnpike did have ramp tolls after it was rebuilt that was later removed.
Quote from: seicer on July 25, 2017, 11:12:47 PM
It was built for the provision for but never implemented. The Turnpike did have ramp tolls after it was rebuilt that was later removed.
This is correct. When the Turnpike was paid off but they wanted to continue tolls forever, the legislature made them take the "side tolls" off, except for the connection to Corridor L. Actually the Corridor L toll was taken off for about a week, but the corrupt turnpike administration threw a fit about it and the legislature change the law.
The idea is that mostly locals paid the "side tolls" while the "mainline tolls" screwed over tourists and truckers.
The Corridor L toll is meant to gouge those who exit I-77 at Beckley to use US 19 as a shortcut to I-79 and points north, and vice versa (using US 19 to enter I-77 southbound). I'd imagine locals don't use that exit. I wonder if completion of the East Beckley Bypass (in its aborted, apparently permanent configuration not to stretch all the way to Corridor L) will siphon even more traffic out of that toll booth?
I will admit to using the toll plaza on my last trip through Beckley. I was in a bit of a hurry to get to my hotel on Harper Road (WV 3) and didn't want to have to sit through the traffic lights on US 19 and WV 16. I knew the shunpike route but opted to let my E-ZPass pay the toll.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 26, 2017, 07:59:30 PM
The Corridor L toll is meant to gouge those who exit I-77 at Beckley to use US 19 as a shortcut to I-79 and points north, and vice versa (using US 19 to enter I-77 southbound). I'd imagine locals don't use that exit. I wonder if completion of the East Beckley Bypass (in its aborted, apparently permanent configuration not to stretch all the way to Corridor L) will siphon even more traffic out of that toll booth?
I will admit to using the toll plaza on my last trip through Beckley. I was in a bit of a hurry to get to my hotel on Harper Road (WV 3) and didn't want to have to sit through the traffic lights on US 19 and WV 16. I knew the shunpike route but opted to let my E-ZPass pay the toll.
There is no toll for the Corridor L interchange if you have a WV-issued E-ZPass. It's an easy way to avoid traffic on Robert C. Byrd Drive and Eisenhower Drive, and even if you have to pay the toll, 40 cents is pretty negligible.
Quote from: Bitmapped on July 26, 2017, 10:18:41 PM
There is no toll for the Corridor L interchange if you have a WV-issued E-ZPass. It's an easy way to avoid traffic on Robert C. Byrd Drive and Eisenhower Drive, and even if you have to pay the toll, 40 cents is pretty negligible.
I'm pretty sure I got charged a toll when I went through, and my E-ZPass is from WV. I'll have to look at my next statement to see for sure, as I didn't use any other toll plazas on the turnpike on my most recent trip.