News:

Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered at https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=33904.0
Corrected several already and appreciate your patience as we work through the rest.

Main Menu

Massachusetts

Started by hotdogPi, October 12, 2013, 04:50:12 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Zeffy

Quote from: southshore720 on January 03, 2015, 11:44:58 AM
Furthermore, why do these houligans risk their lives by climbing on a sign bridge over a very busy highway?  Since when did overhead BGSs become the new canvass for vandalism?  Whatever happened to the classic brick wall?  I frequently see graffiti on the reverse side of BGSs so that the vandals have more liberty for their ugly gang tags.

The point is to make it noticable. If hundreds of people drive down the highway, they are going to see the graffiti compared to if they tagged a random brick wall in a shithole section of a city.
Life would be boring if we didn't take an offramp every once in a while

A weird combination of a weather geek, roadgeek, car enthusiast and furry mixed with many anxiety related disorders


hotdogPi

Quote from: Zeffy on January 03, 2015, 11:55:56 AM
Quote from: southshore720 on January 03, 2015, 11:44:58 AM
Furthermore, why do these houligans risk their lives by climbing on a sign bridge over a very busy highway?  Since when did overhead BGSs become the new canvass for vandalism?  Whatever happened to the classic brick wall?  I frequently see graffiti on the reverse side of BGSs so that the vandals have more liberty for their ugly gang tags.

The point is to make it noticable. If hundreds of people drive down the highway, they are going to see the graffiti compared to if they tagged a random brick wall in a shithole section of a city.

I have seen some on the side of the highway (on a wall or on some rocks), and that doesn't require going up dangerously.

Or even the "Speed Limit 155" sign (the 1 is in spray paint, and it has been there for years), or Rudolph noses on the "deer crossing" signs (since removed).
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

JakeFromNewEngland

I've seen grafitti where someone tagged a speed limit sign on a sharp curve. The original speed limit was 35 but they changed it to 85. I've seen the "Rudolph nose" ones before too. There is also a pull-through sign on I-91 northbound near Hartford that had something tagged on it about 9/11..

southshore720

Sadly, someone will have to die before they get the message that climbing on sign bridges is incredibly dangerous.  Ironically, the graffiti (on both sides of the sign) says "Sense Lives."  Apparently, Sense has 9 lives!

mass_citizen

#204
Quote from: southshore720 on January 03, 2015, 11:44:58 AM
How long do you think it will take MassDOT to clean this up or replace the sign altogether?

Honestly imho I hope they do neither as the graffiti does not obstruct the sign's message and the labor and expense is not justified considering the current condition of our roads as well as the pending state budget deficit.  If you look at the state's history of deferring maintenance of bridge structural deficiencies then I just can't see spending money to fix something that is mostly aesthetic.

As for the potential argument that leaving it up will encourage others, I highly doubt there are many more people as brave as the person who climbed that gantry.

Alps

Quote from: mass_citizen on January 03, 2015, 08:37:25 PM
Quote from: southshore720 on January 03, 2015, 11:44:58 AM
How long do you think it will take MassDOT to clean this up or replace the sign altogether?

Honestly imho I hope they do neither as the graffiti does not obstruct the sign's message and the labor and expense is not justified considering the current condition of our roads as well as the pending state budget deficit.  If you look at the state's history of deferring maintenance of bridge structural deficiencies then I just can't see spending money to fix something that is mostly aesthetic.

As for the potential argument that leaving it up will encourage others, I highly doubt there are many more people as brave as the person who climbed that gantry.
Cleaning graffiti is a minimal expense compared to replacing a single bridge. They will clean it.

spooky

Quote from: southshore720 on January 03, 2015, 11:44:58 AM
Driving up MA 3 this morning toward the Braintree junction with I-93, I was treated to a view of some horrible new black graffiti on the diagrammatic BGS for I-93.  How long do you think it will take MassDOT to clean this up or replace the sign altogether?

Furthermore, why do these houligans risk their lives by climbing on a sign bridge over a very busy highway?  Since when did overhead BGSs become the new canvass for vandalism?  Whatever happened to the classic brick wall?  I frequently see graffiti on the reverse side of BGSs so that the vandals have more liberty for their ugly gang tags.

This is where pipe gantry is advantageous...you don't have these losers climbing on the structures defacing property and risking their lives for nothing.

The same moron(s) also hit a pair of BGS on the ramp from Burgin Parkway to MA 3 SB.

roadman

Quote from: mass_citizen on January 03, 2015, 08:37:25 PM
Quote from: southshore720 on January 03, 2015, 11:44:58 AM
How long do you think it will take MassDOT to clean this up or replace the sign altogether?

Honestly imho I hope they do neither as the graffiti does not obstruct the sign's message and the labor and expense is not justified considering the current condition of our roads as well as the pending state budget deficit.  If you look at the state's history of deferring maintenance of bridge structural deficiencies then I just can't see spending money to fix something that is mostly aesthetic.

As for the potential argument that leaving it up will encourage others, I highly doubt there are many more people as brave as the person who climbed that gantry.
So, if somebody were to commit an act of criminal vandalism by tagging your property, would you be content to leave it there under your premise of "what's the harm?"
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

mass_citizen

Quote from: Alps on January 04, 2015, 02:09:53 AM

Cleaning graffiti is a minimal expense compared to replacing a single bridge. They will clean it.

The OP asked if the state would clean or replace, and I agree cleaning is the better option.

I was not referring to bridge replacements but bridge maintenance (deck repair, substructure repair, etc.) as well as roadway maintenance (potholes, drainage). This type of basic maintenance is deferred and underfunded statewide. While this sign is in a high visibility location and may receive attention, there are countless examples of graffiti on bridges and signs throughout the state that remains uncleaned. It just isn't a priority.

mass_citizen

#209
Quote from: roadman on January 05, 2015, 10:36:04 AM

So, if somebody were to commit an act of criminal vandalism by tagging your property, would you be content to leave it there under your premise of "what's the harm?"

If my property consisted of thousands of similarly tagged items (road signs) and my home was in structural decay in need of repairs and my bank account was in the negative and I was living off credit, then yes sir you bet I would. And I'm sure you would too. Its about priorities. Considering the amount of graffiti out there between bridges, signs, etc. that the state leaves up, it seems they agree. People defer maintenance on their homes and cars all the time. If you have a major dent or scratch on your automobile (or if someone keys your car) and it needs a new head gasket at the same time, which repair would you prioritize?

As long as there is no vulgarity or racial slur that is visible to the public, then I just can't justify cleaning every instance of graffiti on a sign or highway overpass. What happens when the graffiti artist strikes again? Do we just engage in a cat and mouse game and throw more money at it? Unless we can develop a way of preventing people from climbing these bridges and signs, then its a game we cannot and will not ever win.

southshore720

Quote from: mass_citizen on January 05, 2015, 04:25:41 PM
Unless we can develop a way of preventing people from climbing these bridges and signs, then its a game we cannot and will not ever win.
This is why pipe gantry should be mandatory, or a pipe stem with the truss attachment on top.  I was disappointed to see so many sign bridges replaced in MA that still have the truss structure.  You're just inviting this problem.

We can only hope the idiot that defaced the now more than 1 signs in the Braintree Junction area gets caught in the act, with a nice bill from MassDOT for the cleanup.

SidS1045

Quote from: mass_citizen on January 05, 2015, 04:25:41 PMAs long as there is no vulgarity or racial slur that is visible to the public, then I just can't justify cleaning every instance of graffiti on a sign or highway overpass. What happens when the graffiti artist strikes again? Do we just engage in a cat and mouse game and throw more money at it? Unless we can develop a way of preventing people from climbing these bridges and signs, then its a game we cannot and will not ever win.

Leaving graffiti alone lets it feed on itself.  Remember what happened to the NYC subways in the 1970's and 1980's when the MTA decided it didn't have the money to clean it up.  Subway cars ended up being wall-to-wall-to-ceiling-to-floor graffiti, rendering the maps, ads and destination signs unusable and ignoring the fact that the system's users had to just grin (more like grimace) and bear it.  Users had the feeling they were traveling in the midst of filth.

When graffiti is promptly removed, the graffiti artists move on and deface something else.  Seldom if ever do they target the same edifices more than once.  This has been proven again and again by the experiences of most large cities.
"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." - Edward R. Murrow

mass_citizen

#212
Quote from: SidS1045 on January 06, 2015, 11:59:58 AM

When graffiti is promptly removed, the graffiti artists move on and deface something else.  Seldom if ever do they target the same edifices more than once.  This has been proven again and again by the experiences of most large cities.

Not always. The state has twice sandblasted/painted the large RR bridge over I-190 in Worcester. Each time it would last about 3-6 months, then overnight you have a nice wall of graffiti. I think they (the state) have given up as it has been most recently defaced for about two years.

Even if the original artist doesn't return, there is always a new Picasso waiting in the wings. With so many different gangs each with their own tag all it takes is a newbie looking to make a name for himself.

spooky

Looks like it was half cleaned - "Lives" is no longer visible, but "Sense" is still clear as day.

ATLRedSoxFan

I saw the graffiti the other morning, and meant to have a look this am, but my attention was diverted by a stalled semi in the left lane, under the sign. I take that ramp every morning on my way to work to Rt. 3 South.

southshore720

Spooky, I noticed that too.  At least MassDOT knows it's there and hopefully they will finish the job.  The Burgin Parkway signage is going to be tougher to clean as the vandals hit the route shields and the text.  At least on the diagrammatic, they hit mainly the dead green space.  Even though they clean the signs, there is still going to be the "scarring" from the original damage.  It's just a shame considering how much $$ has been spent on the sign replacements.  Why couldn't the vandals have targeted the forgotten BGS on the Burgin Pkwy ramps from the 80s?  At least they could have had a reason to finally replace them!

Pete from Boston

There's a proposal afoot to open the South Boston Haul Road to all vehicles:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2015/01/17/state-propose-opening-south-boston-bypass-road-all-drivers-pilot/O78MXZvaJQTE1nwdJy5rhP/story.html

I think building a new neighborhood in the core of the city that demands this much automobile access was dumb, and calculated (desirable demographics don't ride any Silver Line).  Serves them right to have all that congestion.

The Haul Road won't be enough anyway, and with no ways off between 93 and the convention center, will be backed up that whole way before long.

southshore720

Living South of Boston and not affected by the Callahan Tunnel closure, I thoroughly enjoyed using the "restricted" South Boston Bypass Road when the detour was in place.  I got into South Boston in a matter of minutes!  It was glorious...it was like sneaking into the "Secret Garden!"  I am completely in favor of them opening the road to everyone.  Yes, I understand that once it becomes popular, it will become more congested.  But at least it's a direct way into South Boston from the South Shore.  The off-ramp orgy to get into the same neighborhood via Exit 20 is much more time consuming.

ATLRedSoxFan

#218
I have been through the Rt. 3 interchange by Quincy Adams since Tuesday, either the sign bridge was cleaned, or the signs were replaced. No evidence of graffiti at all .Still puzzled how any one could even stay up there since there is no cat-walk.

southshore720

I noticed yesterday that the Burgin Pkwy signs are immaculate now.  They did a much better job cleaning those than they did the Exit 20 diagrammatic on Route 3, which has cleaning scars on it.  It seems like a rather quick turnaround to completely replace the signs altogether, but I am not familiar with the ease of cleaning paint off the new-generation BGSs.

roadman

Quote from: southshore720 on January 24, 2015, 12:14:50 PM
I noticed yesterday that the Burgin Pkwy signs are immaculate now.  They did a much better job cleaning those than they did the Exit 20 diagrammatic on Route 3, which has cleaning scars on it.  It seems like a rather quick turnaround to completely replace the signs altogether, but I am not familiar with the ease of cleaning paint off the new-generation BGSs.

It's my understanding that the newer high intensity prismatic sheetings (Type VIII or better), which the Exit 20 diagrammatic was fabricated from, are more vunerable to damage from cleaning grafitti (scars)  than the older high intensity sheeting (Type III), which the older Burgin Parkway signs were fabricated from, is.  Also, from the photos I've seen, it appears that the tagging on the diagrammatic sign was more complex than on the Burgin Parkway signs.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

Mergingtraffic

#221
Any updates on the MA-79 demolition in Fall River?  I haven't been there since last summer.  I'm guessing this sign will be toast soon.

Original non-reflective button copy. MA-138 NB Fall River, MA. Note: the original MA-79 shield still on the sign. by mergingtraffic, on Flickr


This was their preferred alt:
http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/Portals/34/docs/EA_ENF/Section5_ProjectAlternatives.pdf


Also, any updates on the MA-18 project by US-6?  GSV showed reconstruction around 2012.
and these beauties on US-6?
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.637635,-70.922244,3a,75y,232.19h,96.57t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sa0YMIjaO6xAcCOQOO1XJaw!2e0
I only take pics of good looking signs. Long live non-reflective button copy!
MergingTraffic https://www.flickr.com/photos/98731835@N05/

Pete from Boston

The Route 18 work in downtown New Bedford by the new hotel? Done several years ago.  It was not all that major, just tamed the road a bit. 

spooky

Quote from: doofy103 on March 18, 2015, 06:42:06 PM
Any updates on the MA-79 demolition in Fall River?  I haven't been there since last summer.  I'm guessing this sign will be toast soon.

Original non-reflective button copy. MA-138 NB Fall River, MA. Note: the original MA-79 shield still on the sign. by mergingtraffic, on Flickr


This was their preferred alt:
http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/Portals/34/docs/EA_ENF/Section5_ProjectAlternatives.pdf

To the best of my knowledge that sign is being replaced not under the MA 79 viaduct project, but by the I-195 Seekonk to Dartmouth signining project.

roadman

^ I-195 Seekonk to Dartmouth sign replacement project, which also includes the section of MA 24 between the Rhode Island line and I-195, is currently under construction.  However, installing the major ground-mounted and overhead signs and structures won't start until mid-spring of this year.  Contractor is Liddell Brothers, whose SOP on other projects has been to wait for the majority of sign panels and supports/structures to be fabricated before they begin installation.  A further complication is that little foundation work has been doen to date because of the severe winter we've had here.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.