AARoads Forum

General, catch-all thread. Let's start with this.
http://www.truebluela.com/2015/2/18/8066995/dodgers-camelback-ranch-improvements
My friend who works for the Dodgers photographed the sign as installed, so it's for real.

That's one cool sign! Why they didn't think of this sooner is beyond me.

It is a cool sign. Makes me wonder if any of the other teams will consider something similar in the future.

As a San Francisco Giants fan, I am compelled to dislike that sign...  :biggrin:

Using "temporary signs," speed limits are being reduced on part of I-17 for the Memorial Day weekend from 75mph to 65mph due to expected heavy traffic.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-traffic/2018/05/25/adot-reduces-speed-limits-along-interstate-17-memorial-day-weekend-travel/644955002/

Quote... all day Friday for people headed north, and all day Monday for people headed south. ... The restrictions will be in place for the 22-mile stretch between New River and Sunset Point.

Quote from: Kniwt on May 25, 2018, 09:41:47 PM
Using "temporary signs," speed limits are being reduced on part of I-17 for the Memorial Day weekend from 75mph to 65mph due to expected heavy traffic.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-traffic/2018/05/25/adot-reduces-speed-limits-along-interstate-17-memorial-day-weekend-travel/644955002/

Quote... all day Friday for people headed north, and all day Monday for people headed south. ... The restrictions will be in place for the 22-mile stretch between New River and Sunset Point.

That isn't stopping the Sedona 500.  :rolleyes:

Another one of the new color Daktronics DMS has been installed on I-8 at the California/Arizona border in Yuma.  This one has one of the new pedestal style mounts in the median.

ADOT has posted an updated map of dynamic message signs on their website.  This new map distinguishes between the SYLVIA signs still using their original fiber optic panels (which are indicated by FDS as the manufacturer) and those that were refurbished with the new LED panels (which are indicated by SES as the manufacturer).  Also, this new map distinguishes between the Daktronics amber character matrix signs (indicated by DAK) and the color full matrix signs (indicated by DKC).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r18LRbcqA8

A cool drive on I-19 by Forgotten Hwy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh_nKzIKykA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfNb9zVgcKw

According to an article forwarded by today's AASHTO DTU, apparently ADOT and the Gila tribe are finally sitting down to discuss I-10 capacity improvements through their lands.  It appears that they're concerned that AZ 347 upgrades may not occur until the I-10 situation is in some way resolved; the tribe is addressing the whole 10/347 complex as a single entity within the discussion format.  A brief synopsis can be found at:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/arizona/articles/2018-10-18/study-to-identify-possible-improvements-for-i-10-corridor

Looks like there's finally some movement regarding a longstanding "standoff" between the Gila nation and ADOT regarding pushing I-10 out from its present 2+2 configuration.

Quote from: sparker on October 18, 2018, 04:01:57 PM
According to an article forwarded by today's AASHTO DTU, apparently ADOT and the Gila tribe are finally sitting down to discuss I-10 capacity improvements through their lands.  It appears that they're concerned that AZ 347 upgrades may not occur until the I-10 situation is in some way resolved; the tribe is addressing the whole 10/347 complex as a single entity within the discussion format.  A brief synopsis can be found at:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/arizona/articles/2018-10-18/study-to-identify-possible-improvements-for-i-10-corridor

Looks like there's finally some movement regarding a longstanding "standoff" between the Gila nation and ADOT regarding pushing I-10 out from its present 2+2 configuration.

I think it's more likely ADOT realized that the I-11 plan between Buckeye and Casa Grande will never happen and they now feel that this is the more feasible option.

^^^^^^^^^^
If that's the case, then something reasonable -- like heading straight down AZ 85 to Gila Bend -- might be offered as a substitute for the Casa Grande routing.  As I've always said, the purpose of the I-11 Casa Grande "loop" was to serve as an artery for additional housing development in Maricopa and other areas around the periphery of the Gila lands; if that isn't forthcoming, then the basic point of a new-terrain facility is effectively moot.

Apparently the study is going to take 18 months.  If we're lucky we'd see a widening begin to be built sometime circa 2025.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 18, 2018, 04:52:23 PM
Apparently the study is going to take 18 months.  If we're lucky we'd see a widening begin to be built sometime circa 2025.

After 50-odd years of 4-lane existence, I suppose we should all be grateful that something's at least on the horizon.  It's PHX-area congestion points -- including this one -- that made me, when based in SoCal, use CA 86/111 to I-8 and vice-versa rather than stay on I-10 for eastward trips.   

Quote from: sparker on October 18, 2018, 05:10:43 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 18, 2018, 04:52:23 PM
Apparently the study is going to take 18 months.  If we're lucky we'd see a widening begin to be built sometime circa 2025.

After 50-odd years of 4-lane existence, I suppose we should all be grateful that something's at least on the horizon.  It's PHX-area congestion points -- including this one -- that made me, when based in SoCal, use CA 86/111 to I-8 and vice-versa rather than stay on I-10 for eastward trips.

Traffic really hauls the mail through that stretch which can be a wild ride given how inadequate it is.  I lived in Phoenix for 13 years and used to visit the southern part of the state several times a month for work.  Fortunately living in the East Valley made AZ 87 and 79 somewhat reasonable alternates. 

Apparently there is a reason why all of the sudden the Gilas are open to allowing the widening all of the sudden. 
They are making a big push to land the new Diamondbacks stadium to land near Wild Horse Pass casino.  A big part of their proposal is promoting that their location is only an hour from the Tucson market versus other locations in the Phoenix area, which then brought attention to the inadequate stretch of I-10.

No guarantee they will land the stadium but it seems likely so far.  Even if they don't the area is developing into a major regional entertainment destination around the casino for both the Phx and Tucson markets so hopefully they realized they need to let this widening happen and won't backtrack if they don't land the stadium.

Quote from: kdk on November 14, 2018, 03:14:07 PM
Apparently there is a reason why all of the sudden the Gilas are open to allowing the widening all of the sudden. 
They are making a big push to land the new Diamondbacks stadium to land near Wild Horse Pass casino.  A big part of their proposal is promoting that their location is only an hour from the Tucson market versus other locations in the Phoenix area, which then brought attention to the inadequate stretch of I-10.

No guarantee they will land the stadium but it seems likely so far.  Even if they don't the area is developing into a major regional entertainment destination around the casino for both the Phx and Tucson markets so hopefully they realized they need to let this widening happen and won't backtrack if they don't land the stadium.

Why the hell do the Diamondbacks need a new stadium when the one in downtown isn't even 30 years old and is in a great location?...FAA gripes aside.  Hopefully that's private investments going into building something for the Diamondbacks, if it gets I-10 widened through the Gila Res I guess that's a good side benefit. 

Quote from: kdk on November 14, 2018, 03:14:07 PM
Apparently there is a reason why all of the sudden the Gilas are open to allowing the widening all of the sudden. 
They are making a big push to land the new Diamondbacks stadium to land near Wild Horse Pass casino.  A big part of their proposal is promoting that their location is only an hour from the Tucson market versus other locations in the Phoenix area, which then brought attention to the inadequate stretch of I-10.

No guarantee they will land the stadium but it seems likely so far.  Even if they don't the area is developing into a major regional entertainment destination around the casino for both the Phx and Tucson markets so hopefully they realized they need to let this widening happen and won't backtrack if they don't land the stadium.

This does make me laugh.  The PARC clowns in Ahwatukee used the Gila tribe as props in their quest to stop the South Mountain Freeway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQdTgHgh64c


Interstate 411 does a segment on Historic US-66 in Arizona.

Looks like ADOT set up its first rural travel times display system in the state, displayed on DMS along the length of I-17 between Phoenix and Flagstaff.

Put together a short retrospective on AZ 101 on Surewhynotnow.  I included a photo of a blue AZ 101 shield on Shea Boulevard and one from my sign collection:

https://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2019/01/arizona-loop-101.html

Another major project is about to begin on I-15, with work on Virgin River bridges 2, 4, and 5 beginning next month and continuing until 2020. Traffic will be shifted to one side of the freeway, with lane width reduced to 10 feet -- requiring a 224-mile detour for wider vehicles.

(This project apparently does not include the replacement of Bridge 1, which is a separate big deal entirely.)

https://www.azdot.gov/projects/northcentral-district-projects/i-15-virgin-river-bridge-rehabilitation/traffic-alerts

(https://www.azdot.gov/images/default-source/northcentral-projects/i-15-bridges-2-4-5-detour-map.jpg)

Quote from: Kniwt on March 13, 2019, 11:57:51 AM
Another major project is about to begin on I-15, with work on Virgin River bridges 2, 4, and 5 beginning next month and continuing until 2020. Traffic will be shifted to one side of the freeway, with lane width reduced to 10 feet -- requiring a 224-mile detour for wider vehicles.

(This project apparently does not include the replacement of Bridge 1, which is a separate big deal entirely.)

https://www.azdot.gov/projects/northcentral-district-projects/i-15-virgin-river-bridge-rehabilitation/traffic-alerts

(https://www.azdot.gov/images/default-source/northcentral-projects/i-15-bridges-2-4-5-detour-map.jpg)

That *scrolls up* *squints* 224-mile detour is precisely why Old US-91 between the St. George area and Littlefield still needs to be state-maintained.

Quote from: Rover_0 on March 13, 2019, 05:34:58 PM

Quote from: Kniwt on March 13, 2019, 11:57:51 AM
Another major project is about to begin on I-15, with work on Virgin River bridges 2, 4, and 5 beginning next month and continuing until 2020. Traffic will be shifted to one side of the freeway, with lane width reduced to 10 feet -- requiring a 224-mile detour for wider vehicles.

(This project apparently does not include the replacement of Bridge 1, which is a separate big deal entirely.)

https://www.azdot.gov/projects/northcentral-district-projects/i-15-virgin-river-bridge-rehabilitation/traffic-alerts

(https://www.azdot.gov/images/default-source/northcentral-projects/i-15-bridges-2-4-5-detour-map.jpg)

That *scrolls up* *squints* 224-mile detour is precisely why Old US-91 between the St. George area and Littlefield still needs to be state-maintained.

Always seemed like Old 91 would be fine for shorter length trucks to me every time I've driven it.

Red Arizona US 93 sign with high intensity sheeting on ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-ARIZONA-STATE-U-S-93-Route-Sign-Guaranteed-Authentic/143174827660?hash=item2155e27e8c:g:Og0AAOSw97hcSmYW (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-ARIZONA-STATE-U-S-93-Route-Sign-Guaranteed-Authentic/143174827660?hash=item2155e27e8c:g:Og0AAOSw97hcSmYW)

This doesn't seem right to me. I know Arizona used colored signs, but surely that was way before this sheeting was invented. So, where the hell did this come from?

Could be orange for an overhead sign -- that's the color Arizona used for north routes.

One thing I noticed today is that ADOT is now starting to incorporate shields in overhead street blades. New street blades with SR 347 shields and the name (John Wayne Parkway) were installed in Maricopa.

FYI, there is a Skyline color DMS on SR 69 EB in Prescott Valley. It isn't high resolution like the newer Daktronics color DMS, but I just saw it on today an can confirm it is a color DMS.

St. George News takes a look at the problems caused by ongoing construction on I-15 in the Virgin River Gorge.
https://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2019/10/31/mgk-virgin-river-gorge-construction-zone-tallies-over-40-crashes-is-there-a-best-time-to-travel/

QuoteStarting in May, the Arizona Department of Transportation began work on the rehabilitation and repair of the decks of Bridges 2, 4 and 5 between miles markers 13 and 16. During this time, there have been 43 reportable crashes related to the construction zone, according to the Arizona Department of Public Safety.

... The posted speed through the construction zone is 45 mph and tends to get backed up during times of high traffic volume due to travel being reduced to a single lane in either direction.

Conversely, Bottoms said, some motorists will go half that speed — or slower — due to being overly cautious or actually wanting to make the driver's behind them "suffer and wait in traffic"  like they had to.

"It happens every single day,"  Bottoms said.

(https://www.stgeorgeutah.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/traffic-in-gorge-stgnews.jpg)

I wonder how this Sgt. Bottoms knows that a significant number of people go slowly for revenge.  Seems unlikely to me.

And, his name is Bottoms.  That's hilarious.  Sergeant Bottoms... :D

ADOT has expanded its travel times program on I-10 between Phoenix and the New Mexico state line. The data is provided by INRIX.

Quote from: Rothman on October 31, 2019, 12:59:57 PM
I wonder how this Sgt. Bottoms knows that a significant number of people go slowly for revenge.  Seems unlikely to me.

And, his name is Bottoms.  That's hilarious.  Sergeant Bottoms... :D

It really seems like that is the case half of the time. People take driving too seriously like it is some part time career for them to be road warriors and I don't notice that in other countries. Far too often will be in the fast lane moving past a group of cars only to have a driver in front of me slow down right when there are cars making it impossible to pass less pulling off some insanely reckless maneuver. Then they speed up right after passing the group of cars. I usually don't get as mad when it is older drivers doing it as I figure they are being more cautious when they have vehicles next to them. But anyone under 50 should be able to maintain their speed or move over if they can't/won't.

I honestly believe that better driving behaviors could fix a lot of traffic issues. Things like cutting left lane camping, better merging, maintaining speed, and stop the rubbernecking BS would go a long way to reducing congestion in many regards.

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on December 23, 2019, 06:56:23 AM

I honestly believe that better driving behaviors could fix a lot of traffic issues. Things like cutting left lane camping, better merging, maintaining speed, and stop the rubbernecking BS would go a long way to reducing congestion in many regards.

I feel I'm pretty solid on all those things but damn I still sometimes catch myself rubbernecking.  It's like I see the flashing lights on the other side of the freeway and I tell myself, "Don't look, it's not important" but the eyes still begin gravitating that direction.  It's gotta be some primal need to see what is going on. 

Please join me and members of the AARoads community next Saturday (3/21) at 5 PM ET as we profile Interstate 17 through central Arizona and discuss the history and features of this highway, all while enjoying a real-time video trip along the length of the freeway between Phoenix and Flagstaff.

A link to the event location can be found below:

Looks like ADOT just rolled out its rural travel times on DMS on several highways statewide.  Two years ago a pilot project was started on I-17, followed by I-10 between Phoenix and Tucson last year.  Looks like now it is mostly statewide on the following highways:

   
• I-8
• I-10
• I-15
• I-17
• I-40
• US 60
• US 89
• US 93
• SR 64
• SR 68
• SR 69
• SR 87
• SR 89A
• SR 95
• SR 260
• SR 264

Note that I-19 does not have it since there are no DMS on I-19 other than those in the Tucson area, which display local travel times.

Quote from: Pink Jazz on March 21, 2020, 03:09:39 PM
Looks like ADOT just rolled out its rural travel times on DMS on several highways statewide.  Two years ago a pilot project was started on I-17, followed by I-10 between Phoenix and Tucson last year.  Looks like now it is mostly statewide on the following highways:

   
• I-8
• I-10
• I-15
• I-17
• I-40
• US 60
• US 89
• US 93
• SR 64
• SR 68
• SR 69
• SR 87
• SR 89A
• SR 95
• SR 260
• SR 264

Note that I-19 does not have it since there are no DMS on I-19 other than those in the Tucson area, which display local travel times.

Add SR 90 to your list.  Usually will display times to I-10 and Tucson.

Also, it looks like ADOT will be retrofitting all their Skyline DMS with new SES America control boards and full color displays statewide.  Apparently there was an issue with the Skyline DMS losing connectivity with the ADOT network (requiring reboots), possibly due to a compatibility issue with ADOT's DMS Cameleon control software.

For this upcoming weekend's Webinar presentation, we'll be taking a look at the freeway system in and around Phoenix, AZ, one of America's largest cities and a cultural crossroads of the nation. Coverage will begin on Saturday (5/9) at 6 PM ET and will feature live contributions from members of this forum; we hope to see you there!

Quote from: roadwaywiz95 on May 06, 2020, 07:59:05 AM
For this upcoming weekend's Webinar presentation, we'll be taking a look at the freeway system in and around Phoenix, AZ, one of America's largest cities and a cultural crossroads of the nation. Coverage will begin on Saturday (5/9) at 6 PM ET and will feature live contributions from members of this forum; we hope to see you there!

Nice throwback with the colored shields graphics.  I'm just missing a brown 202 for my sign collection, the black and white just doesn't pop IMO.  Too bad I'm on again for this Saturday, Phoenix is my home city. 

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 06, 2020, 11:30:00 AM

Quote from: roadwaywiz95 on May 06, 2020, 07:59:05 AM
For this upcoming weekend's Webinar presentation, we'll be taking a look at the freeway system in and around Phoenix, AZ, one of America's largest cities and a cultural crossroads of the nation. Coverage will begin on Saturday (5/9) at 6 PM ET and will feature live contributions from members of this forum; we hope to see you there!

Nice throwback with the colored shields graphics.  I'm just missing a brown 202 for my sign collection, the black and white just doesn't pop IMO.  Too bad I'm on again for this Saturday, Phoenix is my home city.

Unfortunately, ADOT was rather quick to eliminate most of the brown shields since they faded fairly quickly.  I think the only remaining survivors are at SR 87/Country Club Drive and the 202 Red Mountain (and they are badly faded).

Quote from: Pink Jazz on May 07, 2020, 09:53:18 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 06, 2020, 11:30:00 AM

Quote from: roadwaywiz95 on May 06, 2020, 07:59:05 AM
For this upcoming weekend's Webinar presentation, we'll be taking a look at the freeway system in and around Phoenix, AZ, one of America's largest cities and a cultural crossroads of the nation. Coverage will begin on Saturday (5/9) at 6 PM ET and will feature live contributions from members of this forum; we hope to see you there!

Nice throwback with the colored shields graphics.  I'm just missing a brown 202 for my sign collection, the black and white just doesn't pop IMO.  Too bad I'm on again for this Saturday, Phoenix is my home city.

Unfortunately, ADOT was rather quick to eliminate most of the brown shields since they faded fairly quickly.  I think the only remaining survivors are at SR 87/Country Club Drive and the 202 Red Mountain (and they are badly faded).

There was still a couple approaching AZ 202 from AZ 101 southbound back in late 2016.  Ditto with Blue 101 shields on Shea Boulevard and McDonald Drive in Scottsdale.  I picked up a blue AZ 101 and black AZ 303 a couple years back:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/2933/33179740590_05ac824382_3k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/SxYQUW)IMG_5251 (https://flic.kr/p/SxYQUW) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/2916/32719418774_5bf6fc4c4b_3k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RRizgU)IMG_5255 (https://flic.kr/p/RRizgU) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 07, 2020, 10:25:20 PM

Quote from: Pink Jazz on May 07, 2020, 09:53:18 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 06, 2020, 11:30:00 AM

Quote from: roadwaywiz95 on May 06, 2020, 07:59:05 AM
For this upcoming weekend's Webinar presentation, we'll be taking a look at the freeway system in and around Phoenix, AZ, one of America's largest cities and a cultural crossroads of the nation. Coverage will begin on Saturday (5/9) at 6 PM ET and will feature live contributions from members of this forum; we hope to see you there!

Nice throwback with the colored shields graphics.  I’m just missing a brown 202 for my sign collection, the black and white just doesn’t pop IMO.  Too bad I’m on again for this Saturday, Phoenix is my home city.

Unfortunately, ADOT was rather quick to eliminate most of the brown shields since they faded fairly quickly.  I think the only remaining survivors are at SR 87/Country Club Drive and the 202 Red Mountain (and they are badly faded).

There was still a couple approaching AZ 202 from AZ 101 southbound back in late 2016.  Ditto with Blue 101 shields on Shea Boulevard and McDonald Drive in Scottsdale.  I picked up a blue AZ 101 and black AZ 303 a couple years back:

Those approaching 202 from L-101 SB are now gone. I think they were removed as part of a mass sign replacement in 2017.

^^^^

That might explain my blue 101 then, I got it back in 2017 from a scrap guy. 

Our next installment in the *weekly* live broadcast over on 'roadwaywiz' will be this double-header Virtual Tour presentation, where we dissect and enjoy a full-length trip along the belt highway encircling Phoenix, AZ and the infamous 405 Freeway around Los Angeles in real time, complete with commentary and contributions from admins/moderators/members of this forum.

The event will kick off on Saturday (5/16) at 6 PM ET and we look forward to seeing you there!

Our next installment in the "Virtual Tour" series is scheduled to take place on Saturday (5/23) at 6 PM ET. Come join me and members of the AARoads community as we profile US Routes 163 and 160 across southern Utah & northern Arizona and discuss the history and features of these highways, all while enjoying a real-time video trip across one of the most scenic areas of the desert southwest.

A link to the event location can be found below:

I stumbled upon an oddity: This bridge (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.3295525,-112.8900874,3a,42.6y,230.96h,98.59t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sZ5GlWaZNS0kM0S9itfrLtg!2e0!5s20111001T000000!7i13312!8i6656) on Business 40 over AZ 66 west of Seligman. The side spans are cast-in-place box beams like the 1967 bridge over I-40 a mile to the south, but the span over AZ 66 is AASHTO beams, presumably to avoid the need for falsework over 66. With the round columns and embedded bent cap, the cast-in-place spans mimic the aesthetics of the bridge over I-40, except there's a bulb at the bottom of the box beam to mimic those on the AASHTO beams. Why not just use AASHTO beams for everything? 

Quote from: Tom958 on May 31, 2020, 11:18:17 AM
I stumbled upon an oddity: This bridge (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.3295525,-112.8900874,3a,42.6y,230.96h,98.59t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sZ5GlWaZNS0kM0S9itfrLtg!2e0!5s20111001T000000!7i13312!8i6656) on Business 40 over AZ 66 west of Seligman. The side spans are cast-in-place box beams like the 1967 bridge over I-40 a mile to the south, but the span over AZ 66 is AASHTO beams, presumably to avoid the need for falsework over 66. With the round columns and embedded bent cap, the cast-in-place spans mimic the aesthetics of the bridge over I-40, except there's a bulb at the bottom of the box beam to mimic those on the AASHTO beams. Why not just use AASHTO beams for everything?

That is indeed an interesting design choice. Can't say that I've seen that before.

I clicked into this street view (https://goo.gl/maps/hL8VKRx8gEpjeRjy6) trying to take a look more at the design. This is from 2011 during construction activity on the bridge. You can see falsework adorning the beams of the main span as well as the sides of the whole bridge, but the side spans seems to already be in place.

I don't know enough about the road history to say for certain. But the National Bridge Inventory indicates this bridge was originally constructed in 1978. So this with the street view link makes me wonder if the design choice was due to a retrofit or emergency repair...


BTW: I don't think calling these "AASHTO beams" is the best terminology. AASHTO may have some minimum design standards for roadways, but I don't think they delve into the minutia of bridge design (particularly for what appear to be pre-cast concrete girders).

That construction shot looks like they did a complete deck replacement and replaced the side railing/walls. Which would explain the framework under the main span but not the sides.

Quote from: roadfro on May 31, 2020, 01:52:05 PM
BTW: I don't think calling these "AASHTO beams" is the best terminology. AASHTO may have some minimum design standards for roadways, but I don't think they delve into the minutia of bridge design (particularly for what appear to be pre-cast concrete girders).

My understanding is that AASHTO indeed sponsors a range of standard designs for precast beams. I first learned about this in the early '80's from my girlfriend, who was working as a drafter for a well-known engineering company. The reason for doing so is obvious: it simplifies both design and procurement. it's a good thing that the replacement spans for the William T. Sherman Viaduct in Atlanta were AASHTO beams that could essentially be ordered from a catalog as opposed to being refabricated from an archived agency-specific design.

That said, I made a mistake in calling them AASHTO beams. When I first stumbled upon this, I couldn't pull up the archived Streetviews, and I assumed that the bridge was new, in which case the beams would likely have been AASHTO beams. I never found the bridgereports.com entry, so I eventually decided that it must've been built at the same time as the shortcut segment of I-40, in the mid '70's. AASHTO beams may or may not have been a thing at that point in history.

Also, the Streetview I posted was from 2011, showing the bridge in its finished state. The construction view is more current, from 2019

Quote from: Sonic99 on June 01, 2020, 06:37:22 AM
That construction shot looks like they did a complete deck replacement and replaced the side railing/walls. Which would explain the framework under the main span but not the sides.

Indeed. I discovered this while checking out I-40 across Arizona for a not-too-successful Facebook post. In doing so, I discovered mid '60's bridges that are on their third parapet.  :-o

I am a Texas who loves the Grand Canyon State.  The first time I visited was in 2001, and I was blown away at how good the roads, still think they were the best I have seen outside my own state (Texans think we have excellent roads, which we do have some of the best, but I honestly don't think that's saying too much [you're the hottest waitress at Denys]).  I don't get to visit as much as I would like, so there are gaps between visits, but it does seem that each time I have visited Arizona, the road quality deteriorates with normal aging, almost like the first time I went to Arizona was after a recent state wide revamping of the infrastructure.  Almost like the roads now 20 years old.  Not bad, just old.  Was there a state wide revamping that happened around the turn of the century?

Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 14, 2020, 06:27:45 PM
I am a Texas who loves the Grand Canyon State.  The first time I visited was in 2001, and I was blown away at how good the roads, still think they were the best I have seen outside my own state (Texans think we have excellent roads, which we do have some of the best, but I honestly don't think that's saying too much [you're the hottest waitress at Denys]).  I don't get to visit as much as I would like, so there are gaps between visits, but it does seem that each time I have visited Arizona, the road quality deteriorates with normal aging, almost like the first time I went to Arizona was after a recent state wide revamping of the infrastructure.  Almost like the roads now 20 years old.  Not bad, just old.  Was there a state wide revamping that happened around the turn of the century?

The 90's through about 2006 saw an absolutely massive amount of overhaul and upgrade to a lot of the highways. The population was expanding significantly, so ADOT was constantly widening and reconstructing roads, building new roads, etc. For Phoenix metro, 1990 to 2002 saw all of the loop freeways go from a few very small sections to near-full completion except the 202 in the East Valley. There was a ton of work going all around the state to try to keep up with the growth.

Quote from: Sonic99 on July 15, 2020, 02:43:22 AM

Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 14, 2020, 06:27:45 PM
I am a Texas who loves the Grand Canyon State.  The first time I visited was in 2001, and I was blown away at how good the roads, still think they were the best I have seen outside my own state (Texans think we have excellent roads, which we do have some of the best, but I honestly don't think that's saying too much [you're the hottest waitress at Denys]).  I don't get to visit as much as I would like, so there are gaps between visits, but it does seem that each time I have visited Arizona, the road quality deteriorates with normal aging, almost like the first time I went to Arizona was after a recent state wide revamping of the infrastructure.  Almost like the roads now 20 years old.  Not bad, just old.  Was there a state wide revamping that happened around the turn of the century?

The 90's through about 2006 saw an absolutely massive amount of overhaul and upgrade to a lot of the highways. The population was expanding significantly, so ADOT was constantly widening and reconstructing roads, building new roads, etc. For Phoenix metro, 1990 to 2002 saw all of the loop freeways go from a few very small sections to near-full completion except the 202 in the East Valley. There was a ton of work going all around the state to try to keep up with the growth.

Makes sense.  I always thought it might have been new growth combined with the arrival of the Arizona Diamondbacks in 1998.  It's not unheard of for a major sporting event or new sports team to spawn a major infrastructure overhaul, as goofy as it sounds.  People will now come to see your new team, look at our fantastic roads.

Going to the subject of dynamic message signs, ADOT's contract with Daktronics expires in November 2021.

I wonder if ADOT will give Skyline a second chance.  I know there was that issue of random disconnects from the network possibly due to a compatibility issue with the Cameleon control software, but perhaps Skyline might be planning a fix for the next bid.  Considering other states don't have the same issues with their Skyline DMS (including loyal customer CDOT), it was probably something inherent to ADOT's setup that was causing the issue.

I can see SES America making a bid as well considering they have done several retrofit projects for ADOT.  There is also Adaptive, although they might be a longshot.

In truth, ADOT should not let its DMS control software be a bottleneck, since ADOT's Cameleon control software currently doesn't support graphics nor colors, even though ADOT currently specifies color full matrix DMS for its newest installs.

I swear there was a thread on the Broadway curve but I can't find it. Anyway a preferred contractor has been selected this project is moving forward.

https://www.ttnews.com/articles/arizona-dot-names-preferred-developer-i-10-project-phoenix-area

Article on Phoenix Interstates from the Arizona Republic:

https://amp.azcentral.com/amp/3595374001

QuoteThe 1956 act created interstates 10 and 17 in metro Phoenix. Interstate 17 is a north-south highway connecting Phoenix to northern cities like Prescott and Flagstaff. I-10 is Phoenix's east-west interstate that bends south starting at 20th Street to connect Phoenix to Tucson.

In original proposed routes, federal highway planners wanted I-10 to intersect I-17 at Durango Street in south Phoenix. But Arizona officials, backed by Sen. Carl Hayden, argued for an alignment farther north, which would cross more populated areas and, they said, serve local traffic as well as cross-country travelers.

"I am pleased that the Bureau of Public Roads has consented to this change that will mean so much to Arizona, the City of Phoenix, and to the surrounding communities of Goodyear and Litchfield,"  Sen. Hayden said in 1965.

That northward shift would require I-10 to pass through predominantly white neighborhoods near downtown. Residents of the area revolted and spoke fiercely in opposition to the proposed path. 

The city listened, and in 1973, returned to voters with a new plan: a highway that reached 100 feet in the sky, called a helicoil. Again, voters organized in opposition. ...

In 1973, voters struck the helicoil design down.

By 1979, the city found success. What's commonly referred to today as "the Deck Park Tunnel,"  an underground highway beneath a grass park connecting the downtown neighborhoods, was accepted by voters. Construction began in 1983 and the Papago Freeway opened in 1990. ...

When infrastructure was routed through other neighborhoods, such as I-17 bisecting neighborhoods south of downtown Phoenix and I-10 demolishing neighborhoods along 20th street, the predominantly Black and Latino residents had no such sway.

In May 1963, an expanded portion of Interstate 17 that penetrated south Phoenix neighborhoods and bent east at Durango Street opened. The Durango Curve bordered the southwest edge of a historic Black neighborhood, referred to as the "west region"  in a City of Phoenix report documenting historic Black properties, and Duarte's barrio, La Sonorita.   ...

The area's lack of representation proved useful for highway planners when the designs of Interstate 10 through Roosevelt were in flux. Amid uncertainty with the future of the Papago Freeway and facing pressure to finish connecting Phoenix to Tucson, highway planners decided to build out I-17's Durango Curve.

The new portion would connect to I-10's Broadway Curve, the location at which I-10 becomes a north-south extending highway at 52nd street. It would be called the Maricopa Freeway. In 1971 it opened, cutting a second wound through south Phoenix. ...

"Interstate 17 was placed directly across Latino neighborhoods of South Phoenix paralleling the historic rail corridor,"  (a 2005 ASU study on chronic environmental inequities) said. "The resultant high levels of highway traffic contribute to substantial ambient air pollution in this zone today."

Rob Guy Road does a segment on how the state of Arizona planned and dealt with the politics of Phoenix area freeways.

ADOT's contract with Daktronics expires in November of this year, an RFP should likely be out soon.

I just wonder if the bad blood between ADOT and Skyline still persists.  Apparently both refused to work with each other to try to get the dropout issues resolved, with ADOT instead choosing to retrofit their Skyline DMS with SES America's color panels and control boards.  Other states such as Colorado seem to be loyal Skyline customers and do not have the same issues.

ADOT seems to be a major fan of SES America, not just retrofitting the Skyline signs with color boards but the older Sylvia signs with amber LED panels as well.  I would not be surprised if they win the whole contract for brand new DMS this time around.  I think last time Daktronics mostly won by offering a lower price.

I don't know the quality differences between Daktronics, Skyline, Adaptive, etc. with overhead traffic message highway signs products. But I've worked full time in the sign industry for more years than I want to admit. In the general purpose LED-based signs category Daktronics is the clear leader.

It's one thing to buy an LED-based sign in terms of the up front price. But how often will the unit have to be serviced? How long will the various components last? The stuff from Dak often costs a bit more up front. However that higher up front cost is offset by superior reliability. Every service call can cost serious money. Total cost of ownership is a critical thing with these babies.

The company where I work has sold units from all sorts of manufacturers. The first variable message boards we sold were units from Time-O-Matic, who later changed their company name to Watchfire. Those old signs used 5 watt wedge-based incandescent lamps. Then everything started transitioning to LED in the late 1990's. We used to sell a lot of units from Adaptive Displays; their products weren't nearly as expensive as Watchfire's. Back in that day Daktronics pretty much only sold direct to end users; they had no dealer or maintenance programs with independent sign companies. Adaptive's were pretty solid at first but the company started cutting corners. Eventually we had crews out serving those signs all the time. We started shopping other brands. When Daktronics got serious about courting sign companies we bolted. Their Venus 1500 software blew away the software Adaptive was offering then. Our company isn't 100% total fanboys for Daktronics. If someone wants to buy a less costly unit from Optec, or another brand or even some "OEM" Chinese crap we'll sell it to them, install it and get it running. We let them know up front what to expect. Various LED-based signs are not all created equal.

I'm kind of interested in some of the LED signs that Samsung is now selling.

Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 01, 2021, 09:45:57 PM
I don't know the quality differences between Daktronics, Skyline, Adaptive, etc. with overhead traffic message highway signs products. But I've worked full time in the sign industry for more years than I want to admit. In the general purpose LED-based signs category Daktronics is the clear leader.

It's one thing to buy an LED-based sign in terms of the up front price. But how often will the unit have to be serviced? How long will the various components last? The stuff from Dak often costs a bit more up front. However that higher up front cost is offset by superior reliability. Every service call can cost serious money. Total cost of ownership is a critical thing with these babies.

The company where I work has sold units from all sorts of manufacturers. The first variable message boards we sold were units from Time-O-Matic, who later changed their company name to Watchfire. Those old signs used 5 watt wedge-based incandescent lamps. Then everything started transitioning to LED in the late 1990's. We used to sell a lot of units from Adaptive Displays; their products weren't nearly as expensive as Watchfire's. Back in that day Daktronics pretty much only sold direct to end users; they had no dealer or maintenance programs with independent sign companies. Adaptive's were pretty solid at first but the company started cutting corners. Eventually we had crews out serving those signs all the time. We started shopping other brands. When Daktronics got serious about courting sign companies we bolted. Their Venus 1500 software blew away the software Adaptive was offering then. Our company isn't 100% total fanboys for Daktronics. If someone wants to buy a less costly unit from Optec, or another brand or even some "OEM" Chinese crap we'll sell it to them, install it and get it running. We let them know up front what to expect. Various LED-based signs are not all created equal.

I'm kind of interested in some of the LED signs that Samsung is now selling.

Interestingly in the last bid the bidders were Daktronics, Adaptive, and SES.  Daktronics was the low bidder which is why they won ADOT's contract.

BTW NMDOT is loyal to Adaptive that they don't even competitively bid contracts (even though they have used ADDCO and Skyline in the past and use Skyline's control software).  NMDOT prefers to have parts commonality. ADOT on the other hand prefers to competitively bid contracts.  One difference between Arizona and New Mexico is that New Mexico has one of the lowest gas taxes in the country, and maybe NMDOT felt that it would be more economical to stick with a single manufacturer.

Also, the next MUTCD plans on eliminating external branding from DMS, so it will be harder to tell the manufacturer of DMS (although ADOT's full color front access Daktronics DMS do not have external branding).

Quote from: Pink JazzNMDOT prefers to have parts commonality.

Well, yeah, as often as I'm guessing they're out having to swap out bad driver boards and controllers it would be convenient to have a big pile of common spare parts. I just think it's better to have a product that doesn't involve as many service calls.

In the cases that we do have to change a bad board or something else it isn't difficult to get spare parts from Daktronics. You only start running into trouble if you're trying to service a LED display that's more than 10 years old. At that point the whole panel probably needs to be replaced anyway.

Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 02, 2021, 12:12:42 PM

Quote from: Pink JazzNMDOT prefers to have parts commonality.

Well, yeah, as often as I'm guessing they're out having to swap out bad driver boards and controllers it would be convenient to have a big pile of common spare parts. I just think it's better to have a product that doesn't involve as many service calls.

In the cases that we do have to change a bad board or something else it isn't difficult to get spare parts from Daktronics. You only start running into trouble if you're trying to service a LED display that's more than 10 years old. At that point the whole panel probably needs to be replaced anyway.

I noticed ADOT has replaced some of the older Daktronics character matrix amber LED displays with new full matrix, full color Daktronics LED displays on their Loop 101 Price Freeway and Pima Freeway widening projects.  This is despite the fact that both Daktronics and SES America offer retrofit kits for older DMS.

Quote from: Pink JazzI noticed ADOT has replaced some of the older Daktronics character matrix amber LED displays with new full matrix, full color Daktronics LED displays on their Loop 101 Price Freeway and Pima Freeway widening projects.  This is despite the fact that both Daktronics and SES America offer retrofit kits for older DMS.

The older amber monochrome Daktronics Vanguard units are very limited on what they can display. Those old boards typically displayed text only, with three lines of copy and 18 characters per line (5x7 LEDs per character). That's very primitive.

The cost per pixel has come down quite a bit with LED signs. That makes it possible to install full color LED boards with reasonably tight pixel spacing, such as 20mm between pixel centers, without breaking the bank. At that level it's possible to depict graphical items like Interstate route shields and other kinds of MUTCD sign graphics or render text objects in Series Gothic or Clearview typefaces.

St. George News reports that another long project is about to start on I-15 near the Virgin River Gorge: a 2.5-year rehab of Bridge #1 (between Exits 8 and 9):
https://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2021/02/03/mgk-adot-announces-new-round-of-i-15-bridge-work-near-littlefield/

QuoteThe $56 million project will replace the abutment foundations, piers and the bridge deck of Bridge No. 1. New pavement, pavement markings, guardrail and signage are also included in the project.

... Work on the bridges overall has been part of a major upgrade program on the highway bridges on I-15 stretching back to 2014. The bridges were originally constructed in the 1970s. When this section of highway was built, it was the most expensive rural interstate highway built per mile. It was completed in 1973 after a decade of construction.

... This work has included minor repairs and resurfacing of bridge decks on Bridge No. 2, Bridge No. 3 and Bridge No. 7, as well as an extensive rehabilitation of Bridge No. 6 that was completed in 2016.

... Work on Bridge No. 1 through the Littlefield-Beaver Dam area is expected to conclude by fall 2023.

ADOT project page, not recently updated: https://azdot.gov/node/14320

So, I hear that there are some rumors going around that I-17 will receive new exit numbers to be compliant with MUTCD. Is this true?

Wikipedia has been updated to say Interstate 17's exit numbers now go from 0-147 instead of 194 to 341 (as they should have been numbered from the get-go). Has signage along 17 been updated to reflect the new exits numbers? If not, do they have a date planned for such a conversion?

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 05, 2021, 12:39:27 PM
Wikipedia has been updated to say Interstate 17's exit numbers now go from 0-147 instead of 194 to 341 (as they should have been numbered from the get-go). Has signage along 17 been updated to reflect the new exits numbers? If not, do they have a date planned for such a conversion?

Any evidence?  Now up next for ADOT....I-19!

I'd love it if Interstate 19 had its exits renumbered from kilometer-based to mileage-based, but I doubt that will happen since the locals seem to prefer the way the exit numbers (and signage) are currently numbered. As if converting to mileage-based exits and distances is like pulling teeth.

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 05, 2021, 02:05:50 PM
I'd love it if Interstate 19 had its exits renumbered from kilometer-based to mileage-based, but I doubt that will happen since the locals seem to prefer the way the exit numbers (and signage) are currently numbered. As if converting to mileage-based exits and distances is like pulling teeth.

To me its the same thing as I-17.  If you are going to change one, why not change the other?  I am sure some businesses aren't going to like I-17 being renumbered.  Tough.  That's the way it goes and frankly I am getting annoyed at businesses having so much pull on what goes on on highways. 

Plus, I-19 is shorter than I-17 so it will be a less expensive project. 

Leave I-19 alone. Convert everything else to metric!

In all serious leave I-19. I enjoy it as the weirdo that it is. But I-17 isn't the only highway like this. I was confused when I drove SR 347 and saw it mileposts in the hundreds at first until I realized oh yeah, ADOT's stupid N/S numbering scheme.  :pan:

Does the I-17 remembering also apply to Loop 303 (where 100 was arbitrarily added to each exit number)?

This seems like such a waste seeing as I-17 has been "incorrectly"  numbered for 50 years (and GPS / real time navigation options are commonplace now).

Quote from: Exit58 on February 05, 2021, 06:27:59 PM
Leave I-19 alone. Convert everything else to metric!

In all serious leave I-19. I enjoy it as the weirdo that it is. But I-17 isn't the only highway like this. I was confused when I drove SR 347 and saw it mileposts in the hundreds at first until I realized oh yeah, ADOT's stupid N/S numbering scheme.  :pan:

Also SR-80.

Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on February 05, 2021, 02:01:24 PM

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 05, 2021, 12:39:27 PM
Wikipedia has been updated to say Interstate 17's exit numbers now go from 0-147 instead of 194 to 341 (as they should have been numbered from the get-go). Has signage along 17 been updated to reflect the new exits numbers? If not, do they have a date planned for such a conversion?

Any evidence?  Now up next for ADOT....I-19!

I've driven both directions of I-17 between exit 194 and 211 (I-10 to Greenway Rd) and have seen no evidence of any exit renumbering. 

Nor have I.  That Wikipedia line has no source material, nor is there a single news item about a renumbering.

Sounds like someone needs to hit the revert version tab on I-17.

Maybe Wikipedia made a mistake when announcing such a proposal (although I think it makes perfect sense, since the existing exit sequence is awkward), or maybe Wikipedia jumped the gun on a project that may be under consideration in the future. If any proposal to change Interstate 17's (or any other highways') exit numbers do come to fruition, let me know.

Dang, can't believe I've gone more than a year without knowing about the completion of the AZ-202 extension project. :-o

The Arizona DOT is soliciting input on its 5 year road construction program.

https://www.azfamily.com/traffic/adot-wants-your-input-on-tentative-highway-lineup-for-arizona/article_f83b665d-ddeb-5b22-a4de-b61af692508a.amp.html

QuoteThe Arizona Department of Transportation on Thursday began a public comment period on the 2022-2026 tentative five-year construction program.

Major projects included in the tentative program include adding lanes to Interstate 17 between Anthem Way on the far northern outskirts of metro Phoenix and Sunset Point and replacing Interstate 10 bridges over the Gila River south of metro Phoenix.

Construction of the $328 million I-17 lanes project is scheduled to begin in 2022, and the $83 million bridge project is scheduled to get underway in 2023.

Two construction projects involve U.S. 93, the principal route between Phoenix and Las Vegas.

Constructing the first phase of a new interchange between U.S. 93 and Interstate 40 in west Kingman is scheduled to start by 2024, while a project to widen 4 miles (6 kilometers) of U.S. 93 north of Wickenburg is scheduled for 2022.

The Kingman project's cost is put at $70 million, while the Wickenburg project is estimated at $41 million.

The department plans four public hearings on the five-year program between now and when the State Transportation Board considers the plan June 18.

The five year program is posted at https://azdot.gov/planning/transportation-programming/tentative-five-year-program

QuotePublic comment period begins for ADOT's Tentative Five-Year Construction Program

On March 18, 2021, ADOT will release its tentative 2022-2026 Five-Year Transportation Facilities Construction Program(link is external) for public review and comment. The public comment period for the Tentative Five-Year Program ends at 5 p.m. on June 3, 2021.

The State Transportation Board is expected to consider formal action at its June 18 board meeting about what will be in the updated Five-Year Program.

The public can provide comments on the tentative Five-Year Program in the following ways:

Attend the virtual public hearings of the State Transportation Board on March 19, April 16, May 21 and June 3 at 9 a.m. Meeting information can be found at http://aztransportationboard.gov(link is external)

Complete an online comment form at: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/ADOTFiveYearPlan(link is external)

Email: fiveyearconstructionprogram@azdot.gov(link sends e-mail)

Call the bilingual phone line at: 1-855-712-8530

Mail ADOT at: Attn: Daina Mann, c/o ADOT Communications, 1655 W. Jackson, Room 179, MD 126F, Phoenix, AZ 85007

View Tentative 2022-2026 Five-Year Transportation Facilities Construction Program

SM-G975U

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 09, 2021, 01:02:35 PM
Maybe Wikipedia made a mistake when announcing such a proposal (although I think it makes perfect sense, since the existing exit sequence is awkward), or maybe Wikipedia jumped the gun on a project that may be under consideration in the future. If any proposal to change Interstate 17's (or any other highways') exit numbers do come to fruition, let me know.

This wasn't the doing of Wikipedia. This was the doing of some random dude on the internet who came up with a fictional renumbering on his own.

Quote from: andy3175 on March 20, 2021, 10:32:08 PM
The Arizona DOT is soliciting input on its 5 year road construction program.

https://www.azfamily.com/traffic/adot-wants-your-input-on-tentative-highway-lineup-for-arizona/article_f83b665d-ddeb-5b22-a4de-b61af692508a.amp.html

QuoteThe Arizona Department of Transportation on Thursday began a public comment period on the 2022-2026 tentative five-year construction program.

Major projects included in the tentative program include adding lanes to Interstate 17 between Anthem Way on the far northern outskirts of metro Phoenix and Sunset Point and replacing Interstate 10 bridges over the Gila River south of metro Phoenix.

Construction of the $328 million I-17 lanes project is scheduled to begin in 2022, and the $83 million bridge project is scheduled to get underway in 2023.

Two construction projects involve U.S. 93, the principal route between Phoenix and Las Vegas.

Constructing the first phase of a new interchange between U.S. 93 and Interstate 40 in west Kingman is scheduled to start by 2024, while a project to widen 4 miles (6 kilometers) of U.S. 93 north of Wickenburg is scheduled for 2022.

The Kingman project's cost is put at $70 million, while the Wickenburg project is estimated at $41 million.

The department plans four public hearings on the five-year program between now and when the State Transportation Board considers the plan June 18.

The five year program is posted at https://azdot.gov/planning/transportation-programming/tentative-five-year-program

QuotePublic comment period begins for ADOT's Tentative Five-Year Construction Program

On March 18, 2021, ADOT will release its tentative 2022-2026 Five-Year Transportation Facilities Construction Program(link is external) for public review and comment. The public comment period for the Tentative Five-Year Program ends at 5 p.m. on June 3, 2021.

The State Transportation Board is expected to consider formal action at its June 18 board meeting about what will be in the updated Five-Year Program.

The public can provide comments on the tentative Five-Year Program in the following ways:

Attend the virtual public hearings of the State Transportation Board on March 19, April 16, May 21 and June 3 at 9 a.m. Meeting information can be found at http://aztransportationboard.gov(link is external)

Complete an online comment form at: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/ADOTFiveYearPlan(link is external)

Email: fiveyearconstructionprogram@azdot.gov(link sends e-mail)

Call the bilingual phone line at: 1-855-712-8530

Mail ADOT at: Attn: Daina Mann, c/o ADOT Communications, 1655 W. Jackson, Room 179, MD 126F, Phoenix, AZ 85007

View Tentative 2022-2026 Five-Year Transportation Facilities Construction Program

SM-G975U

Apparently the US 93 project immediately north of Wickenburg, which includes roundabouts, has little or nothing to do with the I-11 overlay of that highway but rather there to address safety issues at the AZ 89 junction as well as capacity to accommodate outward Wickenburg-area housing expansion.  Seeing as how the I-11 alignment is expected to take a wide arc around the west side of that city, it would probably diverge from existing US 93 well north of this project.

Quote from: bing101 on December 02, 2020, 09:20:12 AM
Rob Guy Road does a segment on how the state of Arizona planned and dealt with the politics of Phoenix area freeways.

I think the more notable story is that Phoenix nearly went down the dark path of Vancouver and San Francisco in not having a freeway system but by the 80s, when traffic became unbearable, they relented and voted to impose a sales tax to build a wonderful freeway network.

https://www.ahwatukee.com/news/article_0c55125c-970b-11eb-8542-27a340d3f165.html

ADOT revenue woes and shedding  of planned projects.

The Arizona Daily Star in Tucson reports that a 5-mile section of US 191 south of Willcox is closed indefinitely after fissures up to 10 feet deep opened across the roadway.
https://tucson.com/news/local/major-crack-closes-southern-arizona-highway-in-heavy-groundwater-pumping-area/article_52a242d0-debd-11eb-ad7d-478c4ded74bf.html

QuoteA big crack opening up to 10 feet deep in the earth forced closure of a stretch of U.S. 191 in Cochise County this week, inconveniencing drivers and deepening local concerns about the impacts of unregulated groundwater pumping on that basin's aquifer.

The Arizona Department of Transportation closed a 5-mile section of the highway linking two rural communities lying southwest of Willcox early Tuesday after heavy rains caused cracks to open in the road through erosion.

The crack was up to 8 to 10 feet deep and opened up to 2 feet wide in spots before work crews could fill it in on Tuesday and Wednesday, although much of it was thin and almost hairline. The crack covered roughly a quarter-mile-long area, said Bill Harman, district engineer for ADOT's Safford-based, Southeastern Arizona district.

In part because the road is left in unstable condition, Harman said he doesn't know when it can reopen. Traffic on 191 – the main link between Interstate 10 and Douglas – is being detoured to the west for the foreseeable future.

... One complicating factor is that it's not yet a settled question as to whether this crack's formation is due to groundwater pumping or to natural causes.

Hey, at least it isn't north of Morenci for once with US 191.  There are some roads near the closure area but I don't recall many of them being paved or really being conveniently placed to get around the farm parcels and back to US 191.  AZ 181 and AZ 186 probably is a better bet to get towards Willcox.

The summer monsoon could be a drought buster but is causing roadway damage.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/07/24/weather/southwest-monsoon-flash-flood-drought-weekend-forecast/index.html

https://azdot.gov/adot-news/after-wildfires-drivers-should-be-wary-potential-storm-runoff

QuoteWhile the risk of flooding or sudden closures can occur anywhere wildfires have occurred in recent years, some areas are especially vulnerable this summer. Those highways include US 60, SR 77 and SR 177, where the Telegraph Fire has caused widespread damage on roadways forming a triangle between Superior, Globe-Miami and Winkelman.  

Storm damage is also possible because of fires in 2021 or recent years on highways that include SR 88, SR 188, US 191 south of Alpine, SR 87 south of Payson and SR 260 between Camp Verde and SR 87.

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/monsoon-brought-lightning-rain-and-flooding-to-phoenix-and-other-parts-of-arizona.amp

QuoteThe impact knocked down trees, fencing, and even power. It has also triggered flash flood warnings in some Phoenix suburbs.

In Scottsdale, city officials reported outages in the city's Old Town district and South Scottsdale. Crews have been working to restore power and clean up debris. Multiple streets in flood-prone areas have been closed. The damage to McCormick-Stillman Railroad Park was so extensive, the park is now closed until further notice.

SM-G975U

New Freeway Just Dropped
(https://i.imgur.com/PjLifi8.png)

On August 20th, ADOT released the EIS for a new freeway connecting Tucson to Phoenix's East Valley. It will relieve congestion on 10 and facilitate growth

I can get behind this. I wish Oklahoma would take a cue from Arizona.

Probably not much choice considering all the issues ADOT and the Gila Reservation have had.  I'm skeptical about the urban sprawl from Phoenix hitting Coolidge and Florence.  That's a long from the core of the Phoenix Metro Area and I don't see it being tenable for "bedroom"  communities.  Then again, that's arguably what Maricopa already is...

Interesting to see Golden Canyon got an approved bypass.  The current expressway always struck me as something that would be fairly straight forward in terms of developing a couple interchanges for. 

I genuinely wonder if/when we will see this ever happen. I've been waiting for SR30 for a while now, and still no ETA. Plus the Prop money is about to run out in the next couple years and will need to be renewed, and with the current political climate, I have my doubts as to if it will be extended.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 24, 2021, 07:39:40 AM
Probably not much choice considering all the issues ADOT and the Gila Reservation have had.  I'm skeptical about the urban sprawl from Phoenix hitting Coolidge and Florence.  That's a long from the core of the Phoenix Metro Area and I don't see it being tenable for "bedroom"  communities.  Then again, that's arguably what Maricopa already is...

The San Tan Valley has needed a freeway for at least 10 years.  It's a hot-growth area.  Eventually, that sprawl will hit Coolidge and Florence.

QuoteInteresting to see Golden Canyon got an approved bypass.  The current expressway always struck me as something that would be fairly straight forward in terms of developing a couple interchanges for.

Gold Canyon is a "money" area.  I'm willing to bet that this wouldn't have gotten past Pinal County politicians without the bypass route.

Quote from: KeithE4Phx on August 25, 2021, 01:36:01 AM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 24, 2021, 07:39:40 AM
Probably not much choice considering all the issues ADOT and the Gila Reservation have had.  I'm skeptical about the urban sprawl from Phoenix hitting Coolidge and Florence.  That's a long from the core of the Phoenix Metro Area and I don't see it being tenable for "bedroom"  communities.  Then again, that's arguably what Maricopa already is...

The San Tan Valley has needed a freeway for at least 10 years.  It's a hot-growth area.  Eventually, that sprawl will hit Coolidge and Florence.

QuoteInteresting to see Golden Canyon got an approved bypass.  The current expressway always struck me as something that would be fairly straight forward in terms of developing a couple interchanges for.

Gold Canyon is a "money" area.  I'm willing to bet that this wouldn't have gotten past Pinal County politicians without the bypass route.

Planners have also said the city would be backed up to Lake Pleasant and would grow on the western flank of the White Tanks.  With all these bedroom communities people still seem to be commuting towards downtown Phoenix, Tempe and Scottsdale.  That's not exactly a fantastic plan to permit massive residential sprawl with little commerce to back it up.  Does a commute from the likes of Florence to any of the downtown areas not described above not seem what one might see in an overgrown Californian metro area? 

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 25, 2021, 07:54:02 AM

Quote from: KeithE4Phx on August 25, 2021, 01:36:01 AM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 24, 2021, 07:39:40 AM
Probably not much choice considering all the issues ADOT and the Gila Reservation have had.  I'm skeptical about the urban sprawl from Phoenix hitting Coolidge and Florence.  That's a long from the core of the Phoenix Metro Area and I don't see it being tenable for "bedroom"  communities.  Then again, that's arguably what Maricopa already is...

The San Tan Valley has needed a freeway for at least 10 years.  It's a hot-growth area.  Eventually, that sprawl will hit Coolidge and Florence.

QuoteInteresting to see Golden Canyon got an approved bypass.  The current expressway always struck me as something that would be fairly straight forward in terms of developing a couple interchanges for.

Gold Canyon is a "money" area.  I'm willing to bet that this wouldn't have gotten past Pinal County politicians without the bypass route.

Planners have also said the city would be backed up to Lake Pleasant and would grow on the western flank of the White Tanks.  With all these bedroom communities people still seem to be commuting towards downtown Phoenix, Tempe and Scottsdale.  That's not exactly a fantastic plan to permit massive residential sprawl with little commerce to back it up.  Does a commute from the likes of Florence to any of the downtown areas not described above not seem what one might see in an overgrown Californian metro area?

Less than 2% of all jobs (http://www.demographia.com/db-cbd2000.pdf) in Greater Phoenix are located downtown. Phoenix is one of the most decentralized cities in the world. And given how remote work has proven itself, I don't see why employment would get more centralized. People will probably spend 2 days a week working at home and 3 days working from a suburban satellite office.

Essentially this looks like a freeway alternative to the AZ 79/77 combination from the eastern valley (Apache Jct.) down to metro Tucson.  It'll also probably serve to delineate the eastern practical limits of mass housing expansion.  Interesting to see that it'll functionally be an extension of the US 60 freeway, which would have never seen an eastward extension as a freeway facility beyond Florence Junction in any case because of the terrain.  Any inkling about the numerical designation of the new corridor? 

Quote from: sparker on August 25, 2021, 06:01:25 PM
Any inkling about the numerical designation of the new corridor?

I have seen ADOT documents showing it as an extension of AZ 88.  If that were to happen, that would make it one of the few, if not the only highway in the US to be a freeway at one end and a dirt road at the other (OK, the last mile to AZ 188 is paved, but still...).

Because of the distance between Idaho Rd. (the beginning of AZ 88 at US 60) and the beginning of the new freeway, I doubt it'll be called AZ 88.  ADOT doesn't do 3 digit Interstates, but if they could be talked into it, then I-310 would be a good number.  Even more unlikely is for them to make it an extension of I-19, co-signing 10 and 19 through Tucson to Eloy.  I'll be shocked if they do that.

It looks like they're numbering new freeways as lower-digit state highways, such as AZ 24 for the Gateway and AZ 30 for the Tres Rios.  Maybe something like AZ 41 or some other odd number.

It's not specifically a matter of "they could be talked into it." Changing from a state designated route to an interstate comes with more drawbacks than benefits in this case.  For example, all additions and many modifications to interstate interchanges require an IAJR (Interstate Access Justification Report) that is approved by FHWA. These are not particularly hard, but do take time/money to do. It is one less step for interchanges on a state highway.

How has the Broadway Curve project managed to avoid the controversy that other massive widening projects (I-45 in Houston, I-5 in Portland, 710/605 in Los Angeles etc.) have attracted recently?

How is the I-5 project in Portland massive? Lol that freeway should be at least 5 lanes each way but will only be 3 smh

Quote from: kernals12 on August 26, 2021, 07:35:28 PM
How has the Broadway Curve project managed to avoid the controversy that other massive widening projects (I-45 in Houston, I-5 in Portland, 710/605 in Los Angeles etc.) have attracted recently?

We're used to that section of I-10 being a massive bottleneck.  Anything will be an improvement, despite an even worse bottleneck for a couple of years.

That hot mess was one reason I moved from Ahwatukee to Mesa in 2014.  :-D

Quote from: KeithE4Phx on August 25, 2021, 06:56:02 PM

Quote from: sparker on August 25, 2021, 06:01:25 PM
Any inkling about the numerical designation of the new corridor?

I have seen ADOT documents showing it as an extension of AZ 88.  If that were to happen, that would make it one of the few, if not the only highway in the US to be a freeway at one end and a dirt road at the other (OK, the last mile to AZ 188 is paved, but still...).

Because of the distance between Idaho Rd. (the beginning of AZ 88 at US 60) and the beginning of the new freeway, I doubt it'll be called AZ 88.  ADOT doesn't do 3 digit Interstates, but if they could be talked into it, then I-310 would be a good number.  Even more unlikely is for them to make it an extension of I-19, co-signing 10 and 19 through Tucson to Eloy.  I'll be shocked if they do that.

It looks like they're numbering new freeways as lower-digit state highways, such as AZ 24 for the Gateway and AZ 30 for the Tres Rios.  Maybe something like AZ 41 or some other odd number.

In my fictional world I think the AZ 30 should become I-10 (as it's the original I-10 alignment), the existing I-10 and the Red Mountain Loop 202 should become I-410, the Santan / South Mountain Loop 202 should become I-610, and the Superstition / Pinal North South Freeway should become I-310. Not that it'll ever happen

Quote from: KeithE4Phx on August 26, 2021, 08:21:05 PM

Quote from: kernals12 on August 26, 2021, 07:35:28 PM
How has the Broadway Curve project managed to avoid the controversy that other massive widening projects (I-45 in Houston, I-5 in Portland, 710/605 in Los Angeles etc.) have attracted recently?

We're used to that section of I-10 being a massive bottleneck.  Anything will be an improvement, despite an even worse bottleneck for a couple of years.

That hot mess was one reason I moved from Ahwatukee to Mesa in 2014.  :-D

ADOT should really do a better job of trying to redistribute traffic that doesn't need to go through that bottleneck onto other highways. I see a lot of through truck and other vehicle traffic staying on I-10 through this area when it really should be redistributed onto the Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway. I know ADOT hates 3dis but the Loop 202 South Mountain really should be an I-x10 with a S/B and E/B control city of Tucson and a N/B and W/B control city of Los Angeles.

Also the Broadway curve can be avoided with the Loop 101 / Loop 202 combination yet, again, with a lack of control cities and a lot of signage (other than a few VMSs) most drivers just take US 60 to I-10.

Along with the AZ 30 project ADOT needs to fix the distribution of traffic around downtown. It seems the main through movements through the "Mini-stack" are from I-10 E/B to Loop 202 E/B, Loop 202 W/B to I-10 W/B, I-10 W/B to AZ 51 N/B, and AZ 51 S/B to I-10 E/B. Yet the movement with the most lanes is the 90 degree turn through this intersection (which I guess makes sense to keep it the I-10 mainline). If the I-10 mainline is relocated to I-17 and AZ 30 it solves this problem while converting the "Mini-stack" to a conventional stack.

Quote from: kernals12 on August 26, 2021, 07:35:28 PM
How has the Broadway Curve project managed to avoid the controversy that other massive widening projects (I-45 in Houston, I-5 in Portland, 710/605 in Los Angeles etc.) have attracted recently?

Fair question. Projects like I-45 and I-710 are orders of magnitude larger than Broadway Curve for starters and have proposed impacts to residents and neighborhoods. Regardless of any documented benefits, it is rare these days for those types of projects to get built without some controversy, which can be understandable.

Broadway curve is mostly within the existing right-of-way with no residential impacts. Primarily there was some sliver property acquisition from businesses west of US60, who are typically accepting of selling off a sliver of land in exchange for improved freeway access.

There's also a number of pedestrian/cycling improvements along the corridor with the Broadway curve project that will benefit some of the neighborhoods.  Long story short, there's not much in this project that would cause the controversy that many other projects face. If anything, the weekend closures to build it may be the most annoying thing, but at least that is only temporary.

Quote from: kernals12 on August 26, 2021, 07:35:28 PM
How has the Broadway Curve project managed to avoid the controversy that other massive widening projects (I-45 in Houston, I-5 in Portland, 710/605 in Los Angeles etc.) have attracted recently?

Fair question. Projects like I-45 and I-710 are orders of magnitude larger than Broadway Curve for starters and have proposed impacts to residents and neighborhoods. Regardless of any documented benefits, it is rare these days for those types of projects to get built without some controversy, which can be understandable.

Broadway curve is mostly within the existing right-of-way with no residential impacts. Primarily there was some sliver property acquisition from businesses west of US60, who are typically accepting of selling off a sliver of land in exchange for improved freeway access.

There's also a number of pedestrian/cycling improvements along the corridor with the Broadway curve project that will benefit some of the neighborhoods.  Long story short, there's not much in this project that would cause the controversy that many other projects face. If anything, the weekend closures to build it may be the most annoying thing, but at least that is only temporary.

Quote from: rower155 on August 27, 2021, 11:44:51 AM

Quote from: kernals12 on August 26, 2021, 07:35:28 PM
How has the Broadway Curve project managed to avoid the controversy that other massive widening projects (I-45 in Houston, I-5 in Portland, 710/605 in Los Angeles etc.) have attracted recently?

Fair question. Projects like I-45 and I-710 are orders of magnitude larger than Broadway Curve for starters and have proposed impacts to residents and neighborhoods. Regardless of any documented benefits, it is rare these days for those types of projects to get built without some controversy, which can be understandable.

Broadway curve is mostly within the existing right-of-way with no residential impacts. Primarily there was some sliver property acquisition from businesses west of US60, who are typically accepting of selling off a sliver of land in exchange for improved freeway access.

There's also a number of pedestrian/cycling improvements along the corridor with the Broadway curve project that will benefit some of the neighborhoods.  Long story short, there's not much in this project that would cause the controversy that many other projects face. If anything, the weekend closures to build it may be the most annoying thing, but at least that is only temporary.

The fact that they're adding 6 lanes over 11 miles for just $663 million is incredible. That's only $10 million per lane mile.

Quote from: ztonyg on August 27, 2021, 01:18:35 AM

Quote from: KeithE4Phx on August 26, 2021, 08:21:05 PM

Quote from: kernals12 on August 26, 2021, 07:35:28 PM
How has the Broadway Curve project managed to avoid the controversy that other massive widening projects (I-45 in Houston, I-5 in Portland, 710/605 in Los Angeles etc.) have attracted recently?

We're used to that section of I-10 being a massive bottleneck.  Anything will be an improvement, despite an even worse bottleneck for a couple of years.

That hot mess was one reason I moved from Ahwatukee to Mesa in 2014.  :-D

ADOT should really do a better job of trying to redistribute traffic that doesn't need to go through that bottleneck onto other highways. I see a lot of through truck and other vehicle traffic staying on I-10 through this area when it really should be redistributed onto the Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway. I know ADOT hates 3dis but the Loop 202 South Mountain really should be an I-x10 with a S/B and E/B control city of Tucson and a N/B and W/B control city of Los Angeles.

Also the Broadway curve can be avoided with the Loop 101 / Loop 202 combination yet, again, with a lack of control cities and a lot of signage (other than a few VMSs) most drivers just take US 60 to I-10.

Along with the AZ 30 project ADOT needs to fix the distribution of traffic around downtown. It seems the main through movements through the "Mini-stack" are from I-10 E/B to Loop 202 E/B, Loop 202 W/B to I-10 W/B, I-10 W/B to AZ 51 N/B, and AZ 51 S/B to I-10 E/B. Yet the movement with the most lanes is the 90 degree turn through this intersection (which I guess makes sense to keep it the I-10 mainline). If the I-10 mainline is relocated to I-17 and AZ 30 it solves this problem while converting the "Mini-stack" to a conventional stack.

I always thought Loop 101 should be I-410, Loop 202 should be I-610, Loop 303 should be I-217 when completed, SR 51 should be I-510, and SR 143 should be I-110.  I-210 would likely be reserved for any potential future freeway conversion of SR 210 in Tucson. SR 24 would be I-710, and SR 30 would be I-810.

Quote from: Pink Jazz on August 28, 2021, 06:04:54 PM
I always thought Loop 101 should be I-410, Loop 202 should be I-610, Loop 303 should be I-217 when completed, SR 51 should be I-510, and SR 143 should be I-110.  I-210 would likely be reserved for any potential future freeway conversion of SR 210 in Tucson. SR 24 would be I-710, and SR 30 would be I-810.

The segment of I-10 that runs between what is now the I-17 and Buckeye Rd. was called I-410 at one point in the 1960s, and I-510 at another.  I-710 was proposed for Tucson but was never built.  Since then, ADOT has made it clear that there will be no 3DIs in Arizona, period.  I don't see them changing their minds anytime soon, if ever.

Quote from: KeithE4Phx on August 28, 2021, 07:04:56 PM

Quote from: Pink Jazz on August 28, 2021, 06:04:54 PM
I always thought Loop 101 should be I-410, Loop 202 should be I-610, Loop 303 should be I-217 when completed, SR 51 should be I-510, and SR 143 should be I-110.  I-210 would likely be reserved for any potential future freeway conversion of SR 210 in Tucson. SR 24 would be I-710, and SR 30 would be I-810.

The segment of I-10 that runs between what is now the I-17 and Buckeye Rd. was called I-410 at one point in the 1960s, and I-510 at another.  I-710 was proposed for Tucson but was never built.  Since then, ADOT has made it clear that there will be no 3DIs in Arizona, period.  I don't see them changing their minds anytime soon, if ever.

The Loop Freeways largely prove the notion of having an urban glut of 3D Interstates is dubious at best.  They are just as good as any 3D Interstate and make a lot more sense navigationally than what they traditionally bring to the table.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 28, 2021, 07:49:28 PM

Quote from: KeithE4Phx on August 28, 2021, 07:04:56 PM

Quote from: Pink Jazz on August 28, 2021, 06:04:54 PM
I always thought Loop 101 should be I-410, Loop 202 should be I-610, Loop 303 should be I-217 when completed, SR 51 should be I-510, and SR 143 should be I-110.  I-210 would likely be reserved for any potential future freeway conversion of SR 210 in Tucson. SR 24 would be I-710, and SR 30 would be I-810.

The segment of I-10 that runs between what is now the I-17 and Buckeye Rd. was called I-410 at one point in the 1960s, and I-510 at another.  I-710 was proposed for Tucson but was never built.  Since then, ADOT has made it clear that there will be no 3DIs in Arizona, period.  I don't see them changing their minds anytime soon, if ever.

The Loop Freeways largely prove the notion of having an urban glut of 3D Interstates is dubious at best.  They are just as good as any 3D Interstate and make a lot more sense navigationally than what they traditionally bring to the table.

That being said, would it kill ADOT to list control cities? Especially on the South Mountain Freeway which serves as a nice bypass of downtown Phoenix for traffic continuing past it's junctions with I-10 but isn't signed as such.

Quote from: ztonyg on August 30, 2021, 02:06:00 AM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 28, 2021, 07:49:28 PM

Quote from: KeithE4Phx on August 28, 2021, 07:04:56 PM

Quote from: Pink Jazz on August 28, 2021, 06:04:54 PM
I always thought Loop 101 should be I-410, Loop 202 should be I-610, Loop 303 should be I-217 when completed, SR 51 should be I-510, and SR 143 should be I-110.  I-210 would likely be reserved for any potential future freeway conversion of SR 210 in Tucson. SR 24 would be I-710, and SR 30 would be I-810.

The segment of I-10 that runs between what is now the I-17 and Buckeye Rd. was called I-410 at one point in the 1960s, and I-510 at another.  I-710 was proposed for Tucson but was never built.  Since then, ADOT has made it clear that there will be no 3DIs in Arizona, period.  I don't see them changing their minds anytime soon, if ever.

The Loop Freeways largely prove the notion of having an urban glut of 3D Interstates is dubious at best.  They are just as good as any 3D Interstate and make a lot more sense navigationally than what they traditionally bring to the table.

That being said, would it kill ADOT to list control cities? Especially on the South Mountain Freeway which serves as a nice bypass of downtown Phoenix for traffic continuing past it's junctions with I-10 but isn't signed as such.

Considering the controversies the South Mountain section of Loop 202 had to endure en route to its actual construction, it's not entirely surprising that ADOT has declined to identify it in the field as an effective central Phoenix bypass -- doing so might be construed by still-confrontational parties as insult added to injury by inviting additional traffic to use it as such. 

I-15 at Virgin River Bridge #1 (between exits 8 and 9) will be reduced to one lane in each direction with a 45mph speed limit until at least spring 2023 as rehab work begins on the main bridge surface, and wide loads will again be prohibited.

https://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2021/09/03/mgk-long-term-lane-closures-announced-for-1-15-south-of-gorge-adot-launches-new-app-with-traffic-updates/

QuoteLong-term single-lane travel will be returning to a segment of the Arizona stretch of Interstate 15 following Labor Day weekend as bridge work is scheduled to resume. To try to make the construction easier for travelers to navigate, the Arizona Department of Transportation has rolled out a smart phone app designed to share traffic information and project updates.

... In addition to single-lane travel through the construction zone, vehicles wider than 10 feet and carrying more than 129,000 pounds will have to take a 224-mile detour. Signs, as well as the new smart phone app, will direct oversize vehicles to route of US 93, Nevada state Route 319 and Utah state Route 56 between Las Vegas and Cedar City.

... Work on the bridge is anticipated to run $56 million and involves replacing the abutment foundations, piers and the bridge deck of Bridge No. 1. New pavement, pavement markings, guardrail and signage are also included in the project.

Quote from: Kniwt on September 03, 2021, 01:46:02 PM
I-15 at Virgin River Bridge #1 (between exits 8 and 9) will be reduced to one lane in each direction with a 45mph speed limit until at least spring 2023 as rehab work begins on the main bridge surface, and wide loads will again be prohibited.

https://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2021/09/03/mgk-long-term-lane-closures-announced-for-1-15-south-of-gorge-adot-launches-new-app-with-traffic-updates/

QuoteLong-term single-lane travel will be returning to a segment of the Arizona stretch of Interstate 15 following Labor Day weekend as bridge work is scheduled to resume. To try to make the construction easier for travelers to navigate, the Arizona Department of Transportation has rolled out a smart phone app designed to share traffic information and project updates.

... In addition to single-lane travel through the construction zone, vehicles wider than 10 feet and carrying more than 129,000 pounds will have to take a 224-mile detour. Signs, as well as the new smart phone app, will direct oversize vehicles to route of US 93, Nevada state Route 319 and Utah state Route 56 between Las Vegas and Cedar City.

... Work on the bridge is anticipated to run $56 million and involves replacing the abutment foundations, piers and the bridge deck of Bridge No. 1. New pavement, pavement markings, guardrail and signage are also included in the project.

It's been long past time for ADOT and UDOT to make Old US-91 state-maintained again, so we don't have this 224-mile detour.

Quote from: Rover_0 on September 03, 2021, 02:29:28 PM
It's been long past time for ADOT and UDOT to make Old US-91 state-maintained again, so we don't have this 224-mile detour.

Alas, Old 91 heading into Ivins, Santa Clara, and St. George can't safely accommodate a large number of interstate oversize vehicles. And that doesn't even count the backups that ensue when climbing up from Littlefield during closures in the Gorge. Also, the part north of the summit is a signed county bicycle route without significant shoulders.

It would take a lot of work to upgrade Old 91, although some smaller projects are in the works between Santa Clara and Shivwits tribal land.

The giant detour, while long, has the advantage of not passing through any cities of significant size (there's Caliente NV, though) and, IIRC, has zero traffic signals until the outskirts of Cedar City.

Quote from: Kniwt on September 03, 2021, 03:21:30 PM

Quote from: Rover_0 on September 03, 2021, 02:29:28 PM
It's been long past time for ADOT and UDOT to make Old US-91 state-maintained again, so we don't have this 224-mile detour.

Alas, Old 91 heading into Ivins, Santa Clara, and St. George can't safely accommodate a large number of interstate oversize vehicles. And that doesn't even count the backups that ensue when climbing up from Littlefield during closures in the Gorge. Also, the part north of the summit is a signed county bicycle route without significant shoulders.

It would take a lot of work to upgrade Old 91, although some smaller projects are in the works between Santa Clara and Shivwits tribal land.

The giant detour, while long, has the advantage of not passing through any cities of significant size (there's Caliente NV, though) and, IIRC, has zero traffic signals until the outskirts of Cedar City.

I believe some of the older bridges near Shivwits couldn't even accommodate the weight of a modern fully loaded semi.  South of Shivwits isn't too bad getting over the Beaver Dam Mountains but that would probably even need to be widened for trucks.

Quote from: ztonyg on August 30, 2021, 02:06:00 AM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 28, 2021, 07:49:28 PM

Quote from: KeithE4Phx on August 28, 2021, 07:04:56 PM

Quote from: Pink Jazz on August 28, 2021, 06:04:54 PM
I always thought Loop 101 should be I-410, Loop 202 should be I-610, Loop 303 should be I-217 when completed, SR 51 should be I-510, and SR 143 should be I-110.  I-210 would likely be reserved for any potential future freeway conversion of SR 210 in Tucson. SR 24 would be I-710, and SR 30 would be I-810.

The segment of I-10 that runs between what is now the I-17 and Buckeye Rd. was called I-410 at one point in the 1960s, and I-510 at another.  I-710 was proposed for Tucson but was never built.  Since then, ADOT has made it clear that there will be no 3DIs in Arizona, period.  I don't see them changing their minds anytime soon, if ever.

The Loop Freeways largely prove the notion of having an urban glut of 3D Interstates is dubious at best.  They are just as good as any 3D Interstate and make a lot more sense navigationally than what they traditionally bring to the table.

That being said, would it kill ADOT to list control cities? Especially on the South Mountain Freeway which serves as a nice bypass of downtown Phoenix for traffic continuing past it's junctions with I-10 but isn't signed as such.

The South Mountain Freeway never leaves the city of Phoenix, other than maybe a few county islands here and there.  There are no other "control cities" to show.

Can anyone explain why the road connecting I-17 to Sedona is 2 lanes wide?

The traffic I experienced there this morning was absolutely awful.

Meanwhile Cottonwood gets a 4 lane divided highway connecting it to Sedona.

Quote from: kernals12 on September 05, 2021, 05:58:43 PM
Can anyone explain why the road connecting I-17 to Sedona is 2 lanes wide?

The traffic I experienced there this morning was absolutely awful.

Meanwhile Cottonwood gets a 4 lane divided highway connecting it to Sedona.

Because the City of Sedona and Oak Creek wanted AZ 179 reconfigured to be multi-use and pedestrian friendly.  Much of AZ 179 was one four lanes and had traffic lights.  If you're in a hurry AZ 89A and AZ 260 is the way better way back to I-17.  Cornville Road is an okay alternative between AZ 89A and I-17.  It's worth noting that AZ 89A was until recently a US Route. 

Also, just a piece of advice on Sedona.  If you try to talk "car centric"  anything with the locals it will get a largely negative response.  There are a lot of outdoor types up in Sedona and they tend not to be receptive towards outsiders and ideas that don't fit the views of the community.  Hell, they even got McDonald's to do a teal arch given it was a city ordinance to use it in the color scheme.

Edit: turns Arizonaroads.com has a photo of the old AZ 179/AZ 89A junction before the current roundabouts were built.

https://www.arizonaroads.com/arizona/az179.html

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 05, 2021, 06:06:38 PM

Quote from: kernals12 on September 05, 2021, 05:58:43 PM
Can anyone explain why the road connecting I-17 to Sedona is 2 lanes wide?

The traffic I experienced there this morning was absolutely awful.

Meanwhile Cottonwood gets a 4 lane divided highway connecting it to Sedona.

Because the City of Sedona and Oak Creek wanted AZ 179 reconfigured to be multi-use and pedestrian friendly.  Much of AZ 179 was one four lanes and had traffic lights.  If you're in a hurry AZ 89A and AZ 260 is the way better way back to I-17.  Cornville Road is an okay alternative between AZ 89A and I-17.  It's worth noting that AZ 89A was until recently a US Route. 

Also, just a piece of advice on Sedona.  If you try to talk "car centric"  anything with the locals it will get a largely negative response.  There are a lot of outdoor types up in Sedona and they tend not to be receptive towards outsiders and ideas that don't fit the views of the community.  Hell, they even got McDonald's to do a teal arch given it was a city ordinance to use it in the color scheme.

I saw that, it was pretty cool.

As for the rest of your argument, surveys show pretty decent support for major road improvements (https://www.sedonaaz.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/33738/636516991087470000).

Quote from: kernals12 on September 05, 2021, 06:18:06 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 05, 2021, 06:06:38 PM

Quote from: kernals12 on September 05, 2021, 05:58:43 PM
Can anyone explain why the road connecting I-17 to Sedona is 2 lanes wide?

The traffic I experienced there this morning was absolutely awful.

Meanwhile Cottonwood gets a 4 lane divided highway connecting it to Sedona.

Because the City of Sedona and Oak Creek wanted AZ 179 reconfigured to be multi-use and pedestrian friendly.  Much of AZ 179 was one four lanes and had traffic lights.  If you're in a hurry AZ 89A and AZ 260 is the way better way back to I-17.  Cornville Road is an okay alternative between AZ 89A and I-17.  It's worth noting that AZ 89A was until recently a US Route. 

Also, just a piece of advice on Sedona.  If you try to talk "car centric"  anything with the locals it will get a largely negative response.  There are a lot of outdoor types up in Sedona and they tend not to be receptive towards outsiders and ideas that don't fit the views of the community.  Hell, they even got McDonald's to do a teal arch given it was a city ordinance to use it in the color scheme.

I saw that, it was pretty cool.

As for the rest of your argument, surveys show pretty decent support for major road improvements (https://www.sedonaaz.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/33738/636516991087470000).

That's the thing, the locals wanted AZ 179 put on a road diet and configured the way it presently is.  I had an office in the City of Sedona when AZ 179 was being reconfigured to how it is now.  The pre-existing configuration of AZ 179 wasn't fun either but it also didn't take forever to get out of town on the weekdays like it does now.  I can't fathom the community would tolerate the prospects of endangering that multi-use trail that runs alongside AZ 179.  Converting the highway back to a more conventional configuration or giving it lane expansions would be an unprecedented communal change of heart. 

Phoenix's freeway system did not disappoint during my trip. That being said, I wish they could plant some cacti along the roads, the gravel just didn't look very good, and neutered the effect of artfully designed bridges and retaining walls. Also, I think an extension of 303 East is necessary to serve Carefree, Cave Creek, and Northern Scottsdale, our resort was over 10 miles from the nearest on-ramp and while that's only mildly annoying now, as growth continues, it could lead to massive congestion on surface streets in the future.

Quote from: kernals12 on September 11, 2021, 02:16:52 PM
Phoenix's freeway system did not disappoint during my trip. That being said, I wish they could plant some cacti along the roads, the gravel just didn't look very good, and neutered the effect of artfully designed bridges and retaining walls. Also, I think an extension of 303 East is necessary to serve Carefree, Cave Creek, and Northern Scottsdale, our resort was over 10 miles from the nearest on-ramp and while that's only mildly annoying now, as growth continues, it could lead to massive congestion on surface streets in the future.

I don't think there are any plans for an extension of the 303 east. Eventually there will be a "parkway" that will connect Sonoran Desert Drive (the road at the end of the 303) to Black Mountain Blvd (the road at the end of SR 51) but that is the only plan I've heard so far.

U.S. 60 Bridge At Pinto Creek Opens To Traffic (https://kjzz.org/content/1717656/us-60-bridge-pinto-creek-opens-traffic)

The new bridge is slightly north of the old bridge.

The Arizona Daily Star in Tucson has published several photos taken in 1954 along AZ 84A, the precursor to I-10.
https://tucson.com/news/local/photos-tucson-controlled-access-highway-in-1954/collection_cdb4a2bc-6d0b-5961-8435-e66d6f779d17.html

(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/tucson.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/9/f4/9f455c78-3ed8-5b7d-8c33-067fa0a5d26f/5e2cbf1ba73c5.image.jpg)

(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/tucson.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/4/b4/4b4aede3-c1ee-5e65-8b39-961512fc43d0/5e2cbf1b8e3f4.image.jpg)

Any update on the kingman beale/us93 project

Quote from: Lukeisroads on December 21, 2021, 01:28:34 PM
Any update on the kingman beale/us93 project

Last I saw, it's planned for 2023 or so.

Saw the tax to help fund Pinal County road projects was shot down by the courts. Will this affect the large planned freeway expansions here?

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/arizona/articles/2022-03-08/arizona-court-says-pinal-county-transportation-tax-invalid

I found this on widening I-10 from Chandler to Casa Grande.  (https://www.12news.com/article/news/local/valley/could-arizona-finally-fund-widening-i-10/75-73b16863-e200-4651-b5c6-58d6515afb8e)

I noticed ADOT is starting to make a move towards straight mast arms for new traffic signal installations. I wonder what the reason for the change is.

The City of Phoenix has used straight mast arms for years.

Quote from: Pink Jazz on April 01, 2022, 01:01:14 PM
I noticed ADOT is starting to make a move towards straight mast arms for new traffic signal installations. I wonder what the reason for the change is.

The City of Phoenix has used straight mast arms for years.

Where have you seen the straight mast arms?

The newer ADOT signals along I-17 (Happy Valley Rd and Pinnacle Peak Rd) use the typical ADOT mast arms.

Quote from: ztonyg on April 01, 2022, 10:54:03 PM

Quote from: Pink Jazz on April 01, 2022, 01:01:14 PM
I noticed ADOT is starting to make a move towards straight mast arms for new traffic signal installations. I wonder what the reason for the change is.

The City of Phoenix has used straight mast arms for years.

Where have you seen the straight mast arms?

The newer ADOT signals along I-17 (Happy Valley Rd and Pinnacle Peak Rd) use the typical ADOT mast arms.

There are some at the new Loop 202/Lindsay Road interchange in Gilbert, as well as along SR 24.

Quote from: Pink Jazz on April 02, 2022, 12:17:17 AM

Quote from: ztonyg on April 01, 2022, 10:54:03 PM

Quote from: Pink Jazz on April 01, 2022, 01:01:14 PM
I noticed ADOT is starting to make a move towards straight mast arms for new traffic signal installations. I wonder what the reason for the change is.

The City of Phoenix has used straight mast arms for years.

Where have you seen the straight mast arms?

The newer ADOT signals along I-17 (Happy Valley Rd and Pinnacle Peak Rd) use the typical ADOT mast arms.

There are some at the new Loop 202/Lindsay Road interchange in Gilbert, as well as along SR 24.

Thank you. I've seen some photos of those and they look like the generic straight mast arms found in many other parts of the country. The Phoenix style looks "different" to me.

I'd imagine the straight mast arms are cheaper than the slanted mast arms which really only seem common in Arizona and California.

I think the reason ADOT switched is probably cost. I believe it's the same reason ADOT has switched to installing DMSs on "T" poles on the right hand side of freeways instead of mounting them overhead on monotube gantries.

Quote from: ztonyg on April 03, 2022, 11:54:46 PM

I think the reason ADOT switched is probably cost. I believe it's the same reason ADOT has switched to installing DMSs on "T" poles on the right hand side of freeways instead of mounting them overhead on monotube gantries.

I also noticed many of these new DMS on "T" poles are the front access type instead of walk-in.

While ADOT has not yet put out an RFP for its next DMS vendor, ADOT has is preparing to award Daktronics a contract to refurbish its older Daktronics DMS that were installed 2007-2014. The older Daktronics DMS are LED character matrix. I wonder if it is possible to convert these to color full matrix using the same DMS housing. This is a sole source contract, since according to ADOT many of the components are proprietary to Daktronics.

Quote from: Pink Jazz on May 02, 2022, 08:15:33 PM
While ADOT has not yet put out an RFP for its next DMS vendor, ADOT has is preparing to award Daktronics a contract to refurbish its older Daktronics DMS that were installed 2007-2014. The older Daktronics DMS are LED character matrix. I wonder if it is possible to convert these to color full matrix using the same DMS housing. This is a sole source contract, since according to ADOT many of the components are proprietary to Daktronics.

I'm surprised they're refurbishing them. There used to be a number of them along the E/W segment of the Loop 101 Pima Freeway and N/S segment of Loop 101 Price Freeway S of US 60 and they were all ripped out and replaced with the color full matrix DMSs (most on "T" poles) during the widening of those 2 segments of highway.

Also I would guess that the first "straight" mast arm ADOT installed in metro Phoenix might have been one at US 60 (Grand Ave) and Bethany Home Rd. It's an "extra" set of signals for E/B drivers on Bethany Home Rd and I stumbled upon it the other day. Based upon Google street view it was installed between February and December of 2020.

https://goo.gl/maps/NzME4WQ5qaj4pABi6 (https://goo.gl/maps/NzME4WQ5qaj4pABi6)

Are there any surviving colored Loop state shields in the Phoenix area?  Also, when was the last time to anyone's knowledge they were still a few left?  I seem to think I remember some in 2001. 

Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on May 09, 2022, 03:11:38 PM
Are there any surviving colored Loop state shields in the Phoenix area?  Also, when was the last time to anyone's knowledge they were still a few left?  I seem to think I remember some in 2001.

Plenty of blue 101s in Scottsdale the last time visited, on freeway not so much.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 09, 2022, 03:22:29 PM

Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on May 09, 2022, 03:11:38 PM
Are there any surviving colored Loop state shields in the Phoenix area?  Also, when was the last time to anyone's knowledge they were still a few left?  I seem to think I remember some in 2001.

Plenty of blue 101s in Scottsdale the last time visited, on freeway not so much.

The brown Loop 202 signs have all been replaced.  At least I don't recall seeing any in several years.  I believe there are still one or two black Loop 303 signs still around, at least as of last year.  I try to avoid the 101 like the plague, so I have no idea if there are any blue signs left.  :)

I don't think there are any blue 101 signs on the mainline, but there are plenty on the approaches.

Quote from: KeithE4Phx on May 09, 2022, 09:22:45 PM

The brown Loop 202 signs have all been replaced.  At least I don't recall seeing any in several years.  I believe there are still one or two black Loop 303 signs still around, at least as of last year.  I try to avoid the 101 like the plague, so I have no idea if there are any blue signs left.  :)

I remember the last (badly faded) survivors of the brown Loop 202 shields were at Country Club (SR 87) and the Loop 202 Red Mountain in Mesa. Not sure if they are still there.

Quote from: Pink Jazz on May 10, 2022, 11:51:02 AM

Quote from: KeithE4Phx on May 09, 2022, 09:22:45 PM

The brown Loop 202 signs have all been replaced.  At least I don't recall seeing any in several years.  I believe there are still one or two black Loop 303 signs still around, at least as of last year.  I try to avoid the 101 like the plague, so I have no idea if there are any blue signs left.  :)

I remember the last (badly faded) survivors of the brown Loop 202 shields were at Country Club (SR 87) and the Loop 202 Red Mountain in Mesa. Not sure if they are still there.

I don't believe they are, either on the freeway itself or on Country Club.

In any case, you'd think that ADOT would have learned its lesson from the 1950s & '60s, when all state and US highway signs were color coded, depending on the direction.  I remember seeing a lot of them fading by the time that was discontinued in the mid '60s.

https://www.arizonaroads.com/maps/1961-4.jpg

Quote from: KeithE4Phx on May 10, 2022, 04:07:21 PM

Quote from: Pink Jazz on May 10, 2022, 11:51:02 AM

Quote from: KeithE4Phx on May 09, 2022, 09:22:45 PM

The brown Loop 202 signs have all been replaced.  At least I don't recall seeing any in several years.  I believe there are still one or two black Loop 303 signs still around, at least as of last year.  I try to avoid the 101 like the plague, so I have no idea if there are any blue signs left.  :)

I remember the last (badly faded) survivors of the brown Loop 202 shields were at Country Club (SR 87) and the Loop 202 Red Mountain in Mesa. Not sure if they are still there.

I don't believe they are, either on the freeway itself or on Country Club.

In any case, you'd think that ADOT would have learned its lesson from the 1950s & '60s, when all state and US highway signs were color coded, depending on the direction.  I remember seeing a lot of them fading by the time that was discontinued in the mid '60s.

https://www.arizonaroads.com/maps/1961-4.jpg

And yet the entire country has Interstate shields which are infamous for red color fade.  Certain colors like blue and green hold up really well in the sun, it really just depends on what is used.

https://goo.gl/maps/rRMr38u2CdUtaqPg8
What was behind the greenout on this and the other sign for old US 93 if you pan right?

Quote from: roadman65 on June 14, 2022, 01:56:34 AM
https://goo.gl/maps/rRMr38u2CdUtaqPg8
What was behind the greenout on this and the other sign for old US 93 if you pan right?

Trailhead Parking

Anyone knows what the stub ramps on Loop 303 here are for? There are quite a few sets of them randomly in the area. While I know 303 will get a proper interchange with I-17 sometime in the future, I still don't really know what these are for.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7678464,-112.1417714,3519m/data=!3m1!1e3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7678464,-112.1417714,3519m/data=!3m1!1e3)

Quote from: tsmatt13 on June 19, 2022, 05:47:47 PM
Anyone knows what the stub ramps on Loop 303 here are for? There are quite a few sets of them randomly in the area. While I know 303 will get a proper interchange with I-17 sometime in the future, I still don't really know what these are for.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7678464,-112.1417714,3519m/data=!3m1!1e3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7678464,-112.1417714,3519m/data=!3m1!1e3)

Looks like they're planning for various diamond interchanges along the loop to surface roads that will be built as the area gets developed. The entirety of CR-215 around Vegas was built this way.

Quote from: pderocco on June 20, 2022, 12:08:42 AM

Quote from: tsmatt13 on June 19, 2022, 05:47:47 PM
Anyone knows what the stub ramps on Loop 303 here are for? There are quite a few sets of them randomly in the area. While I know 303 will get a proper interchange with I-17 sometime in the future, I still don't really know what these are for.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7678464,-112.1417714,3519m/data=!3m1!1e3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7678464,-112.1417714,3519m/data=!3m1!1e3)

Looks like they're planning for various diamond interchanges along the loop to surface roads that will be built as the area gets developed. The entirety of CR-215 around Vegas was built this way.

Looks like there are extensions planned for 35th, 51st, and 67th Avenues at some time in the future, and the Loop 303 has been built accordingly.

https://azdot.gov/projects/central-district-projects/loop-303-lake-pleasant-parkway-i-17-improvements (https://azdot.gov/projects/central-district-projects/loop-303-lake-pleasant-parkway-i-17-improvements)

Found the Arizona DOT page addressing this project; it says the ramps will be for the 67th, 51st, and 43rd Avenues. Construction is actually set to begin in the autumn of this year.

Quote from: tsmatt13 on June 20, 2022, 04:25:14 PMhttps://azdot.gov/projects/central-district-projects/loop-303-lake-pleasant-parkway-i-17-improvements (https://azdot.gov/projects/central-district-projects/loop-303-lake-pleasant-parkway-i-17-improvements)

Found the Arizona DOT page addressing this project; it says the ramps will be for the 67th, 51st, and 43rd Avenues. Construction is actually set to begin in the autumn of this year.

ADOT has actually just advertised the contract for 43rd and 51st Avenues (TRACS number F042401C).

Edit:  Because of the form of phased construction ADOT has employed at these interchange locations, which routes current mainline Loop 303 traffic down what will eventually be the exit and entrance ramps, the traffic control is minimal and covers just seven sheets in a 643-page plans set.

Quote from: pderocco on June 20, 2022, 12:08:42 AM

Quote from: tsmatt13 on June 19, 2022, 05:47:47 PM
Anyone knows what the stub ramps on Loop 303 here are for? There are quite a few sets of them randomly in the area. While I know 303 will get a proper interchange with I-17 sometime in the future, I still don't really know what these are for.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7678464,-112.1417714,3519m/data=!3m1!1e3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7678464,-112.1417714,3519m/data=!3m1!1e3)

Looks like they're planning for various diamond interchanges along the loop to surface roads that will be built as the area gets developed. The entirety of CR-215 around Vegas was built this way.

Not the entirety of the Las Vegas Beltway was constructed this way.

The portion of CR-215 between the southern I-15 heading west and north to about Tropicana Avenue originally opened along what is now the frontage roads, and the freeway was eventually built in the middle. The portion of CR-215 between roughly Aliante Pkwy and the northern I-15 interchange was built more on the freeway alignment but temporarily diverted along the eventual on/off ramps at most of the interchanges to access the cross streets until the overpasses were constructed. Most of the rest of the beltway was constructed as actual freeway directly (including most of everything currently signed as I-215), or using some other interim measure.

Quote from: KeithE4Phx on May 10, 2022, 04:07:21 PM

Quote from: Pink Jazz on May 10, 2022, 11:51:02 AM

Quote from: KeithE4Phx on May 09, 2022, 09:22:45 PM

The brown Loop 202 signs have all been replaced.  At least I don't recall seeing any in several years.  I believe there are still one or two black Loop 303 signs still around, at least as of last year.  I try to avoid the 101 like the plague, so I have no idea if there are any blue signs left.  :)

I remember the last (badly faded) survivors of the brown Loop 202 shields were at Country Club (SR 87) and the Loop 202 Red Mountain in Mesa. Not sure if they are still there.

I don't believe they are, either on the freeway itself or on Country Club.

In any case, you'd think that ADOT would have learned its lesson from the 1950s & '60s, when all state and US highway signs were color coded, depending on the direction.  I remember seeing a lot of them fading by the time that was discontinued in the mid '60s.

https://www.arizonaroads.com/maps/1961-4.jpg

The group of button copy signs on Country Club south of the 202 was the last to have brown shields on them I believe. I can confirm they were basically completely faded for quite a few years before ADOT finally replaced them.

Last street view from 2019 before the shields were replaced:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4532583,-111.8396149,3a,75y,0.53h,95.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAHO08KEoZaj6Vkw9JR286A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4532583,-111.8396149,3a,75y,0.53h,95.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAHO08KEoZaj6Vkw9JR286A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)

I was noticing that I-17 on and old map by Enco, was not built over US 89 like you would think.  It appears US 89 had a more convoluted alignment between Phoenix and Flagstaff serving Prescott and then having an Alternate route to head back to I-17 of today.

US89 doubled back east along US 66 instead.


Also AZ 85 north of Gila Bend was also part of US 80 as I-8 replaced AZ 84 to Casa Grande. Though it's odd AZ 84 was not US 80 ALT or another X80 designation at the time I-8 was not part of history as I am sure it was used by cross country motorists as a de facto bypass of Phoenix back then.

From what I recall the fact US 80 was never moved to AZ 86 and AZ 84 was part of the rationale of why the City of San Diego once got pushing about extending US 90 to California.  Interestingly what is now AZ 89A was originally planned as AZ 89 and what become US 89 between Wickenburg-Ash Fork was planned as US 280.  The highway through Oak Creek Canyon wasn't finished until 1938 and was ultimately renumbered to AZ 79 when US 89 was extended to Wickenburg in the final version of the US Route System.  I suspect Arizona wanted US 89 in Oak Creek Canyon from the get go but got pushback from the AASHO given how long it would take to construct.  Ironically the corridor of Oak Creek Canyon was ultimately destined to become US 89A. 

https://www.gribblenation.org/2020/04/paper-highways-us-route-280-and-us.html?m=1

Quote from: roadman65 on August 10, 2022, 09:21:23 AM
I was noticing that I-17 on and old map by Enco, was not built over US 89 like you would think.  It appears US 89 had a more convoluted alignment between Phoenix and Flagstaff serving Prescott and then having an Alternate route to head back to I-17 of today.

US89 doubled back east along US 66 instead.


Also AZ 85 north of Gila Bend was also part of US 80 as I-8 replaced AZ 84 to Casa Grande. Though it's odd AZ 84 was not US 80 ALT or another X80 designation at the time I-8 was not part of history as I am sure it was used by cross country motorists as a de facto bypass of Phoenix back then.

If you look at historical maps of Arizona, AZ 84 was the de facto bypass.  US 80/89 between Phoenix and Tucson wasn't fully paved until well into WWII. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5kffZsjueE

Here's a video on the I-10 widening project from Loop 202 to south of SR 387.

Improvements call for:

• Adding an HOV lane from the 202 interchange to Riggs Rd interchange
• Adding a third lane in each direction within the median from AZ SR 347 (Queen Creek Rd) to south of AZ SR 387
• Rebuilding the Wild Horse Pass Blvd/Sundust Rd and the AZ SR 347 (Queen Creek Rd) interchanges to Diverging Diamond Interchange
• At the SR 587/Casa Blanca Rd interchange, the interchange itself will be rebuilt into a roundabout with a realignment of Casa Blanca to go over I-10
• A new diamond interchange at Seed Farm Rd
• Bridge removal at Dirk Lay Rd
• Bridge replacements and widenings along the corridor where needed

Quote from: Zonie on August 12, 2022, 02:23:36 PM

Quote from: roadman65 on August 10, 2022, 09:21:23 AM
Also AZ 85 north of Gila Bend was also part of US 80 as I-8 replaced AZ 84 to Casa Grande. Though it's odd AZ 84 was not US 80 ALT or another X80 designation at the time I-8 was not part of history as I am sure it was used by cross country motorists as a de facto bypass of Phoenix back then.

If you look at historical maps of Arizona, AZ 84 was the de facto bypass.  US 80/89 between Phoenix and Tucson wasn't fully paved until well into WWII.

Per this 1938 map, the only stretch of US 80/89 that wasn't paved was from south of Florence to AZ 77 north of Tucson. 

There was also no direct route between Phoenix and Tucson until I-10 was opened in around 1970.  One couldn't travel between them without going through Mesa.  Both AZ 84 and 87 were paved by 1938.

https://www.arizonaroads.com/maps/1938-4.jpg

Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on August 16, 2022, 10:31:07 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5kffZsjueE

Here's a video on the I-10 widening project from Loop 202 to south of SR 387.

Improvements call for:

• Adding an HOV lane from the 202 interchange to Riggs Rd interchange
• Adding a third lane in each direction within the median from AZ SR 347 (Queen Creek Rd) to south of AZ SR 387
• Rebuilding the Wild Horse Pass Blvd/Sundust Rd and the AZ SR 347 (Queen Creek Rd) interchanges to Diverging Diamond Interchange
• At the SR 587/Casa Blanca Rd interchange, the interchange itself will be rebuilt into a roundabout with a realignment of Casa Blanca to go over I-10
• A new diamond interchange at Seed Farm Rd
• Bridge removal at Dirk Lay Rd
• Bridge replacements and widenings along the corridor where needed

And that confirms that the GRIC's reasoning for shutting down Wild Horse Pass Motorsports Park (home to 3 of the few remaining club road racing tracks left in the state, along with the only track in the state capable of hosting NHRA Nationals events) was all bunk. They said in their announcement it was "due to the I-10 widening" and that's why they were closing. But in that video, it's clearly shown that the only RoW needed is at the far corner of the northern end of the property, not even close to any of the tracks. As a motorsports fan, it's painful to see how much we've lost around Phoenix in the last 15 years. Manzanita in 2007, Speedworld and PIR's road course in 2012, ET Motorsports Park in 2021, and now WHPMP in 2023. One drag strip left in the state, and that's past Tucson. One dirt track in the state with Canyon Raceway (with rumors that the State has its eyes on killing it in the near future), and one road course at Arizona Motorsports Park that is so tightly regulated by the local gov'ts that it can't do much more than small club events with heavy sound restrictions.

Quote from: Sonic99 on August 18, 2022, 01:33:35 AM
And that confirms that the GRIC's reasoning for shutting down Wild Horse Pass Motorsports Park (home to 3 of the few remaining club road racing tracks left in the state, along with the only track in the state capable of hosting NHRA Nationals events) was all bunk. They said in their announcement it was "due to the I-10 widening" and that's why they were closing. But in that video, it's clearly shown that the only RoW needed is at the far corner of the northern end of the property, not even close to any of the tracks. As a motorsports fan, it's painful to see how much we've lost around Phoenix in the last 15 years. Manzanita in 2007, Speedworld and PIR's road course in 2012, ET Motorsports Park in 2021, and now WHPMP in 2023. One drag strip left in the state, and that's past Tucson. One dirt track in the state with Canyon Raceway (with rumors that the State has its eyes on killing it in the near future), and one road course at Arizona Motorsports Park that is so tightly regulated by the local gov'ts that it can't do much more than small club events with heavy sound restrictions.

Not to mention the loss of IndyCar racing in Phoenix, thanks to the shortsightedness of the present owners of the one mile oval track once known as PIR (who seem to care only about their beloved NASCAR). For nearly 20 years from the early 1980s through the early 2000s, I came out to the Valley every year to attend open-wheel races at 115th Ave & Baseline Rd (now Avondale Blvd & Indian Springs Rd) in the shadow of Monument Hill (which, BTW, was the central survey point for Arizona). But sadly, no more. Hope the world's most competitive motorsports series can return there someday for a race weekend, and not just for occasional private testing.

ADOT is taking comments for the I-10 project south of Phoenix: http://www.i10wildhorsepasscorridor.com/?fbclid=IwAR0PfI-oNhmkwBxgJ3_K1Qw3cHu-9uIZ3XmgNxR7yI_ShoG8Seoz7hFJWE0

It would be nice if they could get funding to start it in either 2024 or 2025.

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on August 31, 2022, 04:31:18 AM
ADOT is taking comments for the I-10 project south of Phoenix: http://www.i10wildhorsepasscorridor.com/?fbclid=IwAR0PfI-oNhmkwBxgJ3_K1Qw3cHu-9uIZ3XmgNxR7yI_ShoG8Seoz7hFJWE0

It would be nice if they could get funding to start it in either 2024 or 2025.

I believe ADOT has a good chunk of funding already set aside, and are trying to get Federal money to make up the rest.

Update on federal funding for various projects in Arizona. It mentions upgrades to the railroad in downtown Flagstaff. It'd be nice to see those tracks placed in a trench.

https://www.12news.com/article/news/local/arizona/transportation-secretary-pete-buttigieg-says-new-arizona-infrastructure-projects-on-their-way/75-d6bf96e9-f870-4e56-b504-08ad8df361f4

Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on August 16, 2022, 10:31:07 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5kffZsjueE

Here's a video on the I-10 widening project from Loop 202 to south of SR 387.

That's a nicely done video showing the improvements. The first question that comes to mind is why are they planning on building a long two-lane road that dead-ends in a turnaround (at time 9:20)? The turnaround/cul-de-sac is directly adjacent to the northernmost planned roundabout at the SR-587 interchange. Surely this has to be a rendering mistake, right? Is it for local access? I checked Google Maps and I don't see even any dirt roads that connect to that proposed road.

Secondly, why are they planning on taking so much ROW (39 acres) to build a new interchange at Seed Farm Road but only making it a diamond interchange with stop signs? With that much ROW, a dumbbell style interchange (diamond with two roundabouts) would work far better.

Looking at Google Maps, it looks like that road/dead end is the current Casa Blanca Rd that runs NW/SE to the east of I-10. They would curve the new road across the freeway to the west where it would connect to the new interchange.

Quote from: Sonic99 on September 03, 2022, 02:24:39 PM

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on August 31, 2022, 04:31:18 AM
ADOT is taking comments for the I-10 project south of Phoenix: http://www.i10wildhorsepasscorridor.com/?fbclid=IwAR0PfI-oNhmkwBxgJ3_K1Qw3cHu-9uIZ3XmgNxR7yI_ShoG8Seoz7hFJWE0

It would be nice if they could get funding to start it in either 2024 or 2025.

I believe ADOT has a good chunk of funding already set aside, and are trying to get Federal money to make up the rest.

Unfortunately, the feds have rejected Arizona's grant request for the I-10 widening.

https://azbex.com/budgets-funding/no-federal-grant-funds-coming-for-i-10-widening/

Still Arizona related but on a different topic, why does ADOT pretend Las Cruces, NM doesn't exist?

All of ADOT's control city signage for I-10 east of Tucson has El Paso (Texas) as the control city. I think it's very bizarre to sign a control city that's two states over when there's a sizeable city one state over.

Maybe ADOT's policy had a cutoff population of 100,000 for their control cities; Las Cruces didn't meet that until after the 2010 census. I strongly believe ADOT should consider dual signing Las Cruces, El Paso on two lines for the control cities. Or at the very least include Las Cruces on mileage signs.

Quote from: jtespi on January 19, 2023, 05:31:33 AM
Still Arizona related but on a different topic, why does ADOT pretend Las Cruces, NM doesn't exist?

All of ADOT's control city signage for I-10 east of Tucson has El Paso (Texas) as the control city. I think it's very bizarre to sign a control city that's two states over when there's a sizeable city one state over.

Maybe ADOT's policy had a cutoff population of 100,000 for their control cities; Las Cruces didn't meet that until after the 2010 census. I strongly believe ADOT should consider dual signing Las Cruces, El Paso on two lines for the control cities. Or at the very least include Las Cruces on mileage signs.

What's funny to me is you get eastbound I-10 control city as El Paso from Tucson east, then you cross into New Mexico and get every little bump in the road that ever saw a life form signed as a control city.  Same can be said heading on I-10 west out of Phoenix for Los Angeles; then when you cross into California, you get all the desert cities before Los Angeles is mentioned. 

ADOT prefers to sign larger out-of-state cities on the interstate system here. I-8 WB skips Yuma for San Diego. I-40 west of Flagstaff is signed for Los Angeles.

Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 19, 2023, 10:21:17 AM
What's funny to me is you get eastbound I-10 control city as El Paso from Tucson east, then you cross into New Mexico and get every little bump in the road that ever saw a life form signed as a control city.  Same can be said heading on I-10 west out of Phoenix for Los Angeles; then when you cross into California, you get all the desert cities before Los Angeles is mentioned.

I'd prefer smaller cities be at least dual signed alongside larger control cities out here in the West. Smaller & closer control city on top and larger/farther away one on the bottom.

Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on January 23, 2023, 01:06:52 AM
ADOT prefers to sign larger out-of-state cities on the interstate system here. I-8 WB skips Yuma for San Diego. I-40 west of Flagstaff is signed for Los Angeles.

I wonder if they do have a 100k population threshold. I checked and Yuma's population was barely 96k at the last (2020) Census.

I am still in favor of ADOT signing I-10 eastbound for Las Cruces-El Paso once you're east of Tucson. It's so bizarre ADOT pretends New Mexico doesn't exist when it comes to I-10 eastbound. Lordsburg is only on the milage signs east of Wilcox and I've just seen "NM state line" mentioned on DMSs twice.

AzDOT is seeking public comment on its 5 year capital plan (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/public-comment-begin-adot%E2%80%99s-tentative-five-year-construction-program-3).

Among the projects are 3 different widenings on US 93 from Wickenburg to I-40. Combined with the new interchange on I-40 in Kingman, we are witnessing the gestation of Interstate 11.

And despite being denied a federal grant, they intend to fund the widening of the Gila River Bridges on I-10.

Quote from: jtespi on January 27, 2023, 12:47:03 AM

Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 19, 2023, 10:21:17 AM
What's funny to me is you get eastbound I-10 control city as El Paso from Tucson east, then you cross into New Mexico and get every little bump in the road that ever saw a life form signed as a control city.  Same can be said heading on I-10 west out of Phoenix for Los Angeles; then when you cross into California, you get all the desert cities before Los Angeles is mentioned.

I'd prefer smaller cities be at least dual signed alongside larger control cities out here in the West. Smaller & closer control city on top and larger/farther away one on the bottom.

Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on January 23, 2023, 01:06:52 AM
ADOT prefers to sign larger out-of-state cities on the interstate system here. I-8 WB skips Yuma for San Diego. I-40 west of Flagstaff is signed for Los Angeles.

I wonder if they do have a 100k population threshold. I checked and Yuma's population was barely 96k at the last (2020) Census.

I am still in favor of ADOT signing I-10 eastbound for Las Cruces-El Paso once you're east of Tucson. It's so bizarre ADOT pretends New Mexico doesn't exist when it comes to I-10 eastbound. Lordsburg is only on the milage signs east of Wilcox and I've just seen "NM state line" mentioned on DMSs twice.

What always bugs me is that I-40 is signed for Los Angeles, and it goes nowhere close to there! At least NMDOT is consistent when it signs control cities, using the smaller cities within its borders (the aforementioned Las Cruces, plus Gallup, Santa Rosa and Santa Fe) and only doing the larger ones when one's about to either enter Albuquerque or cross into other states.

Quote from: kernals12 on March 03, 2023, 03:35:21 PM
AzDOT is seeking public comment on its 5 year capital plan (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/public-comment-begin-adot%E2%80%99s-tentative-five-year-construction-program-3).

Among the projects are 3 different widenings on US 93 from Wickenburg to I-40. Combined with the new interchange on I-40 in Kingman, we are witnessing the gestation of Interstate 11.

And despite being denied a federal grant, they intend to fund the widening of the Gila River Bridges on I-10.

I'm disappointed to see that converting the I-17/Loop 303 interchange into a full free-flowing one is not on the 5 year plan. Traffic volumes are picking up a lot there, and the construction of the TSMC plan and it's supporting infrastructure is only going to add to it. Much of the grading and several of the bridges were already constructed 10+ years ago, so surely it wouldn't be as expensive as some of these other projects they are prioritizing (turning the interchanges on I-17 at Indian School and Camelback into 3 level interchanges for example).

Quote from: kernals12 on March 03, 2023, 03:35:21 PM
AzDOT is seeking public comment on its 5 year capital plan (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/public-comment-begin-adot%E2%80%99s-tentative-five-year-construction-program-3).

Among the projects are 3 different widenings on US 93 from Wickenburg to I-40. Combined with the new interchange on I-40 in Kingman, we are witnessing the gestation of Interstate 11.

And despite being denied a federal grant, they intend to fund the widening of the Gila River Bridges on I-10.

I don't know if this is one of those projects, but ADOT is starting work (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/adot-begins-us-93-widening-project-near-wickenburg) on a 5 mile segment of 93 north of Wickenburg, converting it to a 4 lane divided highway.

Quote from: kernals12 on March 23, 2023, 11:14:40 PM
I don't know if this is one of those projects, but ADOT is starting work (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/adot-begins-us-93-widening-project-near-wickenburg) on a 5 mile segment of 93 north of Wickenburg, converting it to a 4 lane divided highway.

This is a part of 93 that would not eventually be a part of I-11.  But it will still be a big help as an access road from 11 to downtown Wickenburg once/if/when the interstate is finally build.

It looks like they're going to build a direct free flowing ramp from Loop 303 NB to I-17 NB.
https://goo.gl/maps/GEoPbgtVfna6uS2BA

Quote from: roadman65 on March 24, 2023, 12:46:19 PM
It looks like they're going to build a direct free flowing ramp from Loop 303 NB to I-17 NB.
https://goo.gl/maps/GEoPbgtVfna6uS2BA

That was done 10 years ago. No sign of converting that interchange into a free-flowing in at least the next 5 years (no mention in the current 5 Year Plan).

Quote from: kernals12 on March 23, 2023, 11:14:40 PM

I don't know if this is one of those projects, but ADOT is starting work (https://azdot.gov/adot-news/adot-begins-us-93-widening-project-near-wickenburg) on a 5 mile segment of 93 north of Wickenburg, converting it to a 4 lane divided highway.

I graduated high school from Wickenburg in the early 90s and drove that 5 mile segment every day. It was terrifying back then*. This feels like a project that really should have happened decades ago.

* Being a teenager driver in a large Chevy pickup truck, I probably was part of the reason why it was terrifying.

Anyone care to guess what an interstate quality bypass of Wickenburg will cost?

I don't think anyone knows what alignment I-11 will take thru or around Wickenburg. Any guess could be way off by hundreds of millions of dollars depending on that variable. My spitball attempt at a guess: $500 million.

Quote from: Bobby5280 on March 30, 2023, 12:04:34 AM
I don't think anyone knows what alignment I-11 will take thru or around Wickenburg. Any guess could be way off by hundreds of millions of dollars depending on that variable. My spitball attempt at a guess: $500 million.

This, AFAIK, is the final alignment, with two options between Eloy and Sahuarita.  It goes around Wickenburg, veering south just NW of the current US 93/AZ 89 exit.  Not that anything south of I-10, or maybe even south of I-40, will ever be built anyway.

http://i11study.com/arizona/map.asp

Right after posting about potholes in SoCal I came across this article about the situation in Arizona and the plans ADOT has to deal with it. At least they're acknowledging the issue lol

https://www.azfamily.com/2023/04/12/adot-announces-new-plan-fix-potholes-across-state/

https://www.aaroads.com/az/095/us-095-s-at-main-st-3.jpg
I know the US 95 TO banner is erroneous as this particular route is US 95 along historical US 60/70 in Quartsite, but what I find more interesting is the fact that it needs to be concurrent here with BL I-10.

It should have a direct interchange with I-10 at nearby Central Blvd giving the city a better access to its business district.  If I didn't know better this city copied PennDOT and PTC with I-70 in infamous Breezewood to attract customers to old US 60/70 businesses.

Traffic is generally lite enough in Quartzsite that having to exit onto Main Street isn't that big of a deal.  More fun is the US 95 and AZ 95 signage at the west Main off ramp:

https://flic.kr/p/RVs5Vx

Are people often confused when US 95 becomes AZ 95 in Quartzsite, after the US Highway turns west along Business 10 (Historic US 60/70)? Maybe AZ 95 could have been renumbered Alternate US 95 instead, when the US Highway was extended from Blythe, CA to the Mexican border at St. Luis, AZ in 1960.

In my observation they didn't.  The locals at the Quartzsite store I managed security for knew the different between "US 95"  and "Arizona 95."   I'd venture a guess that not many of the long term seasonal RV crowd was very mixed up either considering how little of them went south on US 95.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 26, 2023, 04:31:59 PM
In my observation they didn't.  The locals at the Quartzsite store I managed security for knew the different between "US 95"  and "Arizona 95."   I'd venture a guess that not many of the long term seasonal RV crowd was very mixed up either considering how little of them went south on US 95.

I spent some time with my grandparents in Quartzsite.  Back in the early 1990s, tens of thousands of snowbirders descended upon the town.  Some claimed 100,000 at once, which seems dubious.  Anyway, a lot of them would head south to Mexico for cheap medicine.

The eyeball test didn't even come close to 50,000 in the years I was working out there (2010-2013).  Notably the store in question did 75% of its business the three big months of Snow Bird season.  Truthfully I never got the appeal of Quartzsite or Parker/Bluewater to the north.  Bluewater was at least on the Colorado River, I guess that's worth something.  Those RVers on AZ 95 between Quartzsite and Parker were hellacious to pass during the winter months.  I recall detouring through Poston quite often if I had to visit both locations on the same day. 

It was the RV community that was the appeal.  They provided their own entertainment, especially music and the like.

What's up with Arizona's lack of three digit interstates? Considering Phoenix is a large city and has a freeway network there would be either x10 or x17 destinations instead of AZ Loop designations.

Quote from: roadman65 on May 01, 2023, 02:12:01 PM
What's up with Arizona's lack of three digit interstates? Considering Phoenix is a large city and has a freeway network there would be either x10 or x17 destinations instead of AZ Loop designations.

This is what I thought the freeways should be numbered:

   
• Loop 101 - I-410 (I-210 I think would be reserved for SR 210 in Tucson if it ever becomes a full freeway)
• Loop 202 - I-610
• Loop 303 - I-217
• US 60 Superstition - I-317 (it would be a spur of I-17 that would start from its southern terminus and would go east to Gold Canyon, with the westernmost portion concurrent with I-10)
• SR 51 - I-510
• SR 143 - I-110
• SR 24 - I-710
• SR 30 - I-810
• Pinal North-South Freeway - I-310

There once was an Interstate 410 and an Interstate 510 in Phoenix (both are now part of Interstate 10). There was a proposed Interstate 710 in Tucson. It was to have followed the South Kino Parkway from Interstate 10 to E. Broadway Ave., but it was canceled in 1982. Except for an interchange at E. 22nd St. built in the 2010s, the South Kino Parkway is no freeway. If any of the existing freeways with state highway designations were to have been proposed as Interstates, I think it would have greatly delayed their construction.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 26, 2023, 05:07:17 PM
The eyeball test didn't even come close to 50,000 in the years I was working out there (2010-2013).  Notably the store in question did 75% of its business the three big months of Snow Bird season.  Truthfully I never got the appeal of Quartzsite or Parker/Bluewater to the north.  Bluewater was at least on the Colorado River, I guess that's worth something.  Those RVers on AZ 95 between Quartzsite and Parker were hellacious to pass during the winter months.  I recall detouring through Poston quite often if I had to visit both locations on the same day. 

Sounds like the locals who park their RVs in and around Quartzsite are losing their taste for the place as well. Percentage-wise, La Paz County, which contains Quartzsite, lost nearly 20% of its population in the 2010s: https://www.12news.com/article/news/community/where-have-la-paz-countys-residents-all-gone/75-dbc04b66-7420-4ffc-afa7-b3a9f713a612

Quartzsite was certainly quiet today when I passed through on Main Street.  Granted it's a little past the of traditional snowbird season, even still there was usually a decent crowd around usually during early May.

So, what's up with the super high gas prices in Maricopa County?  Every other county I went to had gas prices in the high $3/low $4 range per gallon.  Most of Maricopa County was selling 87 Octane at $4.99 or higher.

Quote from: brad2971 on May 01, 2023, 11:46:15 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 26, 2023, 05:07:17 PM
The eyeball test didn't even come close to 50,000 in the years I was working out there (2010-2013).  Notably the store in question did 75% of its business the three big months of Snow Bird season.  Truthfully I never got the appeal of Quartzsite or Parker/Bluewater to the north.  Bluewater was at least on the Colorado River, I guess that's worth something.  Those RVers on AZ 95 between Quartzsite and Parker were hellacious to pass during the winter months.  I recall detouring through Poston quite often if I had to visit both locations on the same day. 

Sounds like the locals who park their RVs in and around Quartzsite are losing their taste for the place as well. Percentage-wise, La Paz County, which contains Quartzsite, lost nearly 20% of its population in the 2010s: https://www.12news.com/article/news/community/where-have-la-paz-countys-residents-all-gone/75-dbc04b66-7420-4ffc-afa7-b3a9f713a612

I'd imagine this is due to the Silent Generation dying off.

What are those gratings on the I-40 entrances and exits called that keep animals off the freeway? Yes, I know how it works as the animal can't stick its paws on it without falling between the pipes, but does it have a name in the DOT world?

Quote from: roadman65 on May 09, 2023, 12:46:29 PMWhat are those gratings on the I-40 entrances and exits called that keep animals off the freeway? Yes, I know how it works as the animal can't stick its paws on it without falling between the pipes, but does it have a name in the DOT world?

In the US they are called cattle guards.  Cattle grids is the British English term.  Other, more colorful phrases include Texas gate (in Alberta, Canada) and paso canadiense ("Canadian passage") in a proposed 2022 revision of the traffic manual for Colombia.

Why is the milemarker at the North ( East) end of AZ 181 state the mileage is 64 miles from its other end when in fact the route is only 24 miles long?

The mile markers on 181 start at 38 because it intersects US 191 around mile 38, so the markers end at 64. ADOT has a lot of state highways that begin their mile markers around the same mile where it intersects the other highway. (see also SR 177, 92, 75, 78, 261, 273, 373, 180A, 61, 97, 67, among several other routes that do the same thing)

^ This is the reason I-17's exits are numbered the way they are.  Originally, AZ 69 began its northern journey at or near that point.  Because AZ 69 started at US 89's mile marker 200, the mm's on AZ 69 started at 200.  The Black Canyon Freeway was, at first, a relocation of AZ 69, then designated as I-17—which kept the original exit numbers starting at 200.  It was sometime later, I believe after the routing of I-10 was finalized, that I-17 was extended to its current southern terminus with the exit numbers decreasing from 200.

The widening of I-10 between SR 85 and Verrado Way (https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/AZDOT/bulletins/35d89df) is finished.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/01/climate/arizona-phoenix-permits-housing-water.html

If the NYT thinks that metro Phoenix is going to have the brakes put on growth due to this action, they need to think again. All the Arizona Dept. of Water Resources is doing in Maricopa County is putting a halt to well water permits for projects that rely solely on groundwater. Which means one cannot be a desert rat outside of, say, Tonopah, unless the property they purchased has both a dwelling and an existing water well. It's safe to say very few people younger than the age of Baby Boomer are still doing that sort of thing in Maricopa County. The subdivisons the NYT pictured very likely are supplied by either a municipal or private water company with existing ties to the Salt River Project or Central Arizona Project water sources.

Quote from: brad2971 on June 03, 2023, 10:10:24 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/01/climate/arizona-phoenix-permits-housing-water.html

If the NYT thinks that metro Phoenix is going to have the brakes put on growth due to this action, they need to think again. All the Arizona Dept. of Water Resources is doing in Maricopa County is putting a halt to well water permits for projects that rely solely on groundwater. Which means one cannot be a desert rat outside of, say, Tonopah, unless the property they purchased has both a dwelling and an existing water well. It's safe to say very few people younger than the age of Baby Boomer are still doing that sort of thing in Maricopa County. The subdivisons the NYT pictured very likely are supplied by either a municipal or private water company with existing ties to the Salt River Project or Central Arizona Project water sources.

Good to hear.

I suspect the Rio Verde water mess is the catalyst for this policy change. 

The debate on an incredibly important funding mechanism, prop. 400, continues. Hopefully it gets worked out soon.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix-traffic/2023/06/05/maricopa-county-highway-public-transit-prop-400/70219820007/

I recently drove the South Mountain Freeway this past April.  I finally got around to uploading something for it on Gribblenation.

https://www.gribblenation.org/2023/06/the-south-mountain-freeway-corridor-of.html

I just drove I-10 across Arizona on 7/4/2023.  The shocks blew on my motorhome, so it made the trip worse, but that being said, I-10 between the Colorado River and Phoenix is in bad shape. 

The surface quality on much of the state highway system in general is rough nowadays.  That rubberized asphalt aggregate that ADOT went big in on when I was moving away isn't holding up.  US 93 in particular had some monster potholes with surprising frequency. 

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 07, 2023, 02:13:00 PM
The surface quality on much of the state highway system in general is rough nowadays.  That rubberized asphalt aggregate that ADOT went big in on when I was moving away isn't holding up.  US 93 in particular had some monster potholes with surprising frequency.

Is it desert soil and monsoon weather related or is it heat related?

Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 07, 2023, 02:39:16 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 07, 2023, 02:13:00 PM
The surface quality on much of the state highway system in general is rough nowadays.  That rubberized asphalt aggregate that ADOT went big in on when I was moving away isn't holding up.  US 93 in particular had some monster potholes with surprising frequency.

Is it desert soil and monsoon weather related or is it heat related?

From what I recall the first year it was laid down the heat was a huge issue causing it crumble and chunk up into marbles (especially on AZ 101).  I can't fathom that likely bodes well for long term maintenance given the heat coupled with heavy loads over a decade.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 07, 2023, 02:46:00 PM

Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 07, 2023, 02:39:16 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 07, 2023, 02:13:00 PM
The surface quality on much of the state highway system in general is rough nowadays.  That rubberized asphalt aggregate that ADOT went big in on when I was moving away isn't holding up.  US 93 in particular had some monster potholes with surprising frequency.

Is it desert soil and monsoon weather related or is it heat related?

From what I recall the first year it was laid down the heat was a huge issue causing it crumble and chunk up into marbles (especially on AZ 101).  I can't fathom that likely bodes well for long term maintenance given the heat coupled with heavy loads over a decade.

Add US-191 in the northeastern quadrant of the state on the Navajo Lands to that list. 

Much of the US 60 Superstition Freeway has had its rubberized asphalt layer ground off and returned to a concrete surface. The original concrete finish had long grooves and was quite loud, but the new milled pattern is much quieter. It's also possible to see the original three lane layout and remnants of the original pre-2002 striping now that the rubberized friction course has been removed. New lane dividers are half white, half black like you would see in Florida.

I think Arizona is going back to concrete. That's my one gripe about Phoenix freeways is the blacktop. I hate that with a passion. I love nice concrete.

Rubberized asphalt was wonderful when it was a fresh install, smooth and quiet, and good grip, but unfortunately it tended to break down especially when exposed to sand or dirt. I also remember portions of loop 202 in East Phoenix/North Tempe having horrendous gaps in the ARFC at concrete joints, such that for 1-2 miles drivers were subjected to a constant "thud thud thud."  

Glad we tried it, but also glad we're reverting.

Quote from: JKRhodes on July 26, 2023, 10:58:33 PM
Rubberized asphalt was wonderful when it was a fresh install, smooth and quiet, and good grip, but unfortunately it tended to break down especially when exposed to sand or dirt. I also remember portions of loop 202 in East Phoenix/North Tempe having horrendous gaps in the ARFC at concrete joints, such that for 1-2 miles drivers were subjected to a constant "thud thud thud."  

Glad we tried it, but also glad we're reverting.

All the more perplexing as to why they're putting down fresh rubberized asphalt on parts of I-10 on the Broadway Curve project.

Prop 400 extension passes the legislature!

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/legislature/2023/07/31/maricopa-county-voters-to-decide-on-extending-half-cent-transportation-sales-tax/70499976007/

Downtown Links, dubbed Maclovio Barraza Parkway, opened up between Broadway and 6th Street earlier this year.

Rectangular tubing gantry was replaced with pipe gantry for signal heads on Broadway. No lefts from eastbound Broadway to westbound Maclovio.

Maclovio/AZ 210 approaches complete with Mast arm assemblies on both near and far sides. Looks like something out of sim-city:

https://goo.gl/maps/np7X99oDxtdQd76V6

6th street, once complete, will have benefit of better visibility from Stone Ave, and right lane not dipping into RR underpass approach.

Just stumbled across ADOT's rendering of future upper decking of Indian School Road over I-17. Appears Indian School will have texas style u-turns before it intersects with the I-17 frontage roads:



https://www.flickr.com/photos/arizonadot/sets/72157705482278811/

That has to be one of the weirdest renderings I've ever seen for a freeway project.

It makes it look like the roadway makes sharp turns both to the right and to the left. Couldn't the DOT have designed the pictures to have the roads go straight instead of curving it cockeyed?

If you click on each picture, they're all 3D animations you can use your mouse to look around. In still-form it looks odd but when you click on each of them they render correctly.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 07, 2023, 02:46:00 PM

Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 07, 2023, 02:39:16 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 07, 2023, 02:13:00 PM
The surface quality on much of the state highway system in general is rough nowadays.  That rubberized asphalt aggregate that ADOT went big in on when I was moving away isn't holding up.  US 93 in particular had some monster potholes with surprising frequency.

Is it desert soil and monsoon weather related or is it heat related?

From what I recall the first year it was laid down the heat was a huge issue causing it crumble and chunk up into marbles (especially on AZ 101).  I can't fathom that likely bodes well for long term maintenance given the heat coupled with heavy loads over a decade.

Damn, they should've gone with the primary (black) tires (rubber) rather than the alternate (red) ones! {INDYCAR reference for those of you wondering what the hell I'm talking about}

Seriously, I remember similar problems back in 1967 with the road that became US 93 (then US 466) between Hoover Dam & Kingman due to the desert soils. Being Midwesterners, my dad was unaware of the situation with that particular roadway and we stopped to get our tires balanced in Kingman thinking that was the cause of the very rough ride (of course the locals didn't seem to mind selling us something we likely didn't need).

ADOT is recommending 34 million to be spent to reopen a section of AZ-88(Apache Trail) that was washed out back in 2019. Currently no solid funding has been identified.

https://www.constructionequipmentguide.com/sqlstate40001-serialization-failure-1213-deadlock-found-when-trying-to-get-lock-try-restarting-transactionadot-recommends-34m-in-improvements-on-sr-88/62844

ADOT approved the 25 year plan: https://www.azfamily.com/2023/10/20/adot-approves-25-year-transportation-plan/

Does anyone know where the 25-year plan can be accessed? I would like to learn more about what they plan on doing in Arizona through 2050.

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on October 23, 2023, 12:59:44 PM
Does anyone know where the 25-year plan can be accessed? I would like to learn more about what they plan on doing in Arizona through 2050.

https://adot2050plan.com/

The new effort to keep trucks in the right lane only along I-10, roughly between Casa Grande and Loop 202, doesn't seem to be going well. I've driven that stretch several times in the past month and a lot of commercial vehicles are either ignoring the signs or just disregarding them.

I sent an email to ADOT suggesting the "TRUCKS RIGHT LANE ONLY" reminder signs be installed on the left side of the carriageway in addition to the right side installations.

I know the trucks right lane only regulation through this stretch is fairly new, but I don't know if they're doing anything with serious enforcement.

I really look forward to that stretch being widened to three lanes in each direction. There was talk about it around a year ago but the subject has gone quiet lately.

It won't mean much unless DPS tries to enforce it.  Problem is that the segment is so over capacity that something like that won't be easy to do given much traffic there is.

Why do the roads serving Sky Harbor Airport cross over like this? (https://i.imgur.com/3aNpoFV.jpg)

My hypothesis is that they want the parking garage to be accessible with right-hand ramps. Any other theories?

Quote from: kernals12 on November 14, 2023, 09:56:46 AM
Why do the roads serving Sky Harbor Airport cross over like this? (https://i.imgur.com/3aNpoFV.jpg)

My hypothesis is that they want the parking garage to be accessible with right-hand ramps. Any other theories?

That's actually EXACTLY why they cross over. The Arrival and Departure curbside for both Terminal 3 and 4 (Terminal 2 was demolished in 2019/2020) is set up to be on the passenger side of the car. Most airports (which is exactly 4, KLAS, KPHX, KBWI, and KIAD) I've been to have a traffic pattern that's similar, curbside is on the right.

Quote from: Sonic99 on November 14, 2023, 09:03:24 PM

Quote from: kernals12 on November 14, 2023, 09:56:46 AM
Why do the roads serving Sky Harbor Airport cross over like this? (https://i.imgur.com/3aNpoFV.jpg)

My hypothesis is that they want the parking garage to be accessible with right-hand ramps. Any other theories?

That's actually EXACTLY why they cross over. The Arrival and Departure curbside for both Terminal 3 and 4 (Terminal 2 was demolished in 2019/2020) is set up to be on the passenger side of the car. Most airports (which is exactly 4, KLAS, KPHX, KBWI, and KIAD) I've been to have a traffic pattern that's similar, curbside is on the right.

But no other airport I know of uses such a bizarre road layout to achieve that. Usually they just have a loop road

Functionally you can loop Terminal 3 and 4 very easily in indefinite circles if so inclined.

Arizona really likes to make people drive on the wrong side of the road. They have similar set ups on SR 87 at Rincon Pass and I-8 in Yuma, although in those case I'm guessing they did that due to terrain limitations.

The northbound lanes of AZ 87 in Rincon Pass is the original highway and surprisingly steep.  Rincon Pass doesn't have a ton of room to build which is why the southbound lanes crossover.  The Beeline Highway in general is criminally underrated as an engineering feat and scenic highway.  I used to drive it several times a week on my way to Payson and Show Low. 

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 15, 2023, 10:25:43 AM
The northbound lanes of AZ 87 in Rincon Pass is the original highway and surprisingly steep.  Rincon Pass doesn't have a ton of room to build which is why the southbound lanes crossover. The Beeline Highway in general is criminally underrated as an engineering feat and scenic highway.  I used to drive it several times a week on my way to Payson and Show Low.

That's the exact same story with I-5 north of Castaic.

Correct, there is still some evidence of how the lane transition into Golden State Highway (AKA Ridge Route Alternate) approaching Piru Gorge north of the crossover transition.   

Very happy to see this. Arizona is planning a big increase in truck parking. Not sure about I-10 but traveling I-40 quite frequently I see truck parking always packed. Good to see more added.

https://ktar.com/story/5552021/transportation-officials-to-expand-commercial-truck-parking-along-arizona-interstates/

Quote from: kernals12 on November 15, 2023, 10:30:02 AM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 15, 2023, 10:25:43 AM
The northbound lanes of AZ 87 in Rincon Pass is the original highway and surprisingly steep.  Rincon Pass doesn't have a ton of room to build which is why the southbound lanes crossover. The Beeline Highway in general is criminally underrated as an engineering feat and scenic highway.  I used to drive it several times a week on my way to Payson and Show Low.

That's the exact same story with I-5 north of Castaic.

To my understanding, the original four lanes of I-5 used to run along the northbound alignment.

California, having the explosive growth that it does, had to add more lanes.

Rather than tear down a bunch of businesses, they built a second carriageway for southbound traffic, and subsequently removed the median in the original freeway.

Quote from: JKRhodes on December 09, 2023, 08:36:30 PM

Quote from: kernals12 on November 15, 2023, 10:30:02 AM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 15, 2023, 10:25:43 AM
The northbound lanes of AZ 87 in Rincon Pass is the original highway and surprisingly steep.  Rincon Pass doesn't have a ton of room to build which is why the southbound lanes crossover. The Beeline Highway in general is criminally underrated as an engineering feat and scenic highway.  I used to drive it several times a week on my way to Payson and Show Low.

That's the exact same story with I-5 north of Castaic.

To my understanding, the original four lanes of I-5 used to run along the northbound alignment.

California, having the explosive growth that it does, had to add more lanes.

Rather than tear down a bunch of businesses, they built a second carriageway for southbound traffic, and subsequently removed the median in the original freeway.

That doesn't explain why they put the southbound carriageway on the opposite of the usual side of the northbound: If they had put the northbound carriageway there, it would've created a dangerously steep incline. By putting the Southbound there instead, that incline becomes a decline and the problem is solved.

Now that Clearview (E-Modified Alternate) is now part of the 2023 MUTCD, I wonder if we can see ADOT re-adopt it. I think the reason why ADOT stopped using it was due to some uncertainty over its future, but now that it is part of the MUTCD, I wonder if ADOT might start using it again.