Pavement Markings

[vdeane]

UK uses imperial for road signs. Northern Ireland went metric in 2005.

No they didn't. As part of the UK, Northern Ireland still uses mph on their roads. The non-UK portion or Ireland (ROI) uses metric.

Yeah, it's fairly obvious when you cross the border.

https://goo.gl/maps/emVbjGhTXv52

What's amazing to me is that this is the *only* indication that you crossed into a different country. In the US, crossing a *state* line is a bigger deal on all but the smallest roads:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0527172,-74.0254249,3a,75y,63.71h,101.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sn25spanjAZNCwNOrU2SUvA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en-US

The sign is there because NY 304 is a state highway.  Note that there is no "welcome to NJ" sign in the other direction.  Heck, even US 11 doesn't have a sign coming into PA, and where NY 7A crosses the state line, only this: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9980865,-75.7648738,3a,75y,182h,73.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLNkL7nNIsCH7pEU8C7qUfA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en-US

[cl94]

UK uses imperial for road signs. Northern Ireland went metric in 2005.

No they didn't. As part of the UK, Northern Ireland still uses mph on their roads. The non-UK portion or Ireland (ROI) uses metric.

Yeah, it's fairly obvious when you cross the border.

https://goo.gl/maps/emVbjGhTXv52

What's amazing to me is that this is the *only* indication that you crossed into a different country. In the US, crossing a *state* line is a bigger deal on all but the smallest roads:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0527172,-74.0254249,3a,75y,63.71h,101.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sn25spanjAZNCwNOrU2SUvA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en-US

The sign is there because NY 304 is a state highway.  Note that there is no "welcome to NJ" sign in the other direction.  Heck, even US 11 doesn't have a sign coming into PA, and where NY 7A crosses the state line, only this: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9980865,-75.7648738,3a,75y,182h,73.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLNkL7nNIsCH7pEU8C7qUfA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en-US

Signs are typically only posted for state-maintained highways. None of the more minor crossings into New York are signed, except maybe with a county line sign if the road is county-maintained.

[jakeroot]

What's amazing to me is that this is the *only* indication that you crossed into a different country. In the US, crossing a *state* line is a bigger deal on all but the smallest roads:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0527172,-74.0254249,3a,75y,63.71h,101.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sn25spanjAZNCwNOrU2SUvA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en-US

Crossing between UK states (Scotland, Wales, and England) is a bigger deal than between countries, evidently:

- Scotland into England: https://goo.gl/ixXs9B
- England into Scotland: https://goo.gl/GQEybP
- England into Wales: https://goo.gl/ahwcNi
- Wales into England: https://goo.gl/dyL5UW

[cbeach40]

What's amazing to me is that this is the *only* indication that you crossed into a different country. In the US, crossing a *state* line is a bigger deal on all but the smallest roads:

Given how loaded of a question the "different country" issue is there, it's not entirely surprising.

[cl94]

What's amazing to me is that this is the *only* indication that you crossed into a different country. In the US, crossing a *state* line is a bigger deal on all but the smallest roads:

Given how loaded of a question the "different country" issue is there, it's not entirely surprising.

This. Not even the A1 (only limited-access crossing between the two countries) has any signs other than a county line sign heading SB.

[tckma]

UK uses imperial for road signs. Northern Ireland went metric in 2005.

No they didn't. As part of the UK, Northern Ireland still uses mph on their roads. The non-UK portion or Ireland (ROI) uses metric.

Yeah, it's fairly obvious when you cross the border.

https://goo.gl/maps/emVbjGhTXv52

What's amazing to me is that this is the *only* indication that you crossed into a different country. In the US, crossing a *state* line is a bigger deal on all but the smallest roads:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0527172,-74.0254249,3a,75y,63.71h,101.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sn25spanjAZNCwNOrU2SUvA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en-US

The sign is there because NY 304 is a state highway.  Note that there is no "welcome to NJ" sign in the other direction.  Heck, even US 11 doesn't have a sign coming into PA, and where NY 7A crosses the state line, only this: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9980865,-75.7648738,3a,75y,182h,73.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLNkL7nNIsCH7pEU8C7qUfA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en-US

Signs are typically only posted for state-maintained highways. None of the more minor crossings into New York are signed, except maybe with a county line sign if the road is county-maintained.

Typically.  However:

This kind of signage is fairly common (though not universal) on minor roads leading out of Massachusetts.
This kind of sign is typical of entering New Hampshire from Maine or Vermont on a minor road (not the blue "STATE LINE" sign, but rather the vertical sign with "S/L" on an Old Man of the Mountain silhouette with the town name you're entering in black on white on the left and "NEW HAMPSHIRE" in white on green on the right).

I guess it's a New England thing.  I live very close to the Mason-Dixon Line, and while on state roads you'll see a WELCOME TO PENNSYLVANIA / WELCOME TO MARYLAND, on minor roads you're lucky if you get a stone marker with a M engraved on the Maryland side and P engraved on the Pennsylvania side.

[cl94]

UK uses imperial for road signs. Northern Ireland went metric in 2005.

No they didn't. As part of the UK, Northern Ireland still uses mph on their roads. The non-UK portion or Ireland (ROI) uses metric.

Yeah, it's fairly obvious when you cross the border.

https://goo.gl/maps/emVbjGhTXv52

What's amazing to me is that this is the *only* indication that you crossed into a different country. In the US, crossing a *state* line is a bigger deal on all but the smallest roads:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0527172,-74.0254249,3a,75y,63.71h,101.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sn25spanjAZNCwNOrU2SUvA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en-US

The sign is there because NY 304 is a state highway.  Note that there is no "welcome to NJ" sign in the other direction.  Heck, even US 11 doesn't have a sign coming into PA, and where NY 7A crosses the state line, only this: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9980865,-75.7648738,3a,75y,182h,73.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLNkL7nNIsCH7pEU8C7qUfA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en-US

Signs are typically only posted for state-maintained highways. None of the more minor crossings into New York are signed, except maybe with a county line sign if the road is county-maintained.

Typically.  However:

This kind of signage is fairly common (though not universal) on minor roads leading out of Massachusetts.
This kind of sign is typical of entering New Hampshire from Maine or Vermont on a minor road (not the blue "STATE LINE" sign, but rather the vertical sign with "S/L" on an Old Man of the Mountain silhouette with the town name you're entering in black on white on the left and "NEW HAMPSHIRE" in white on green on the right).

I guess it's a New England thing.  I live very close to the Mason-Dixon Line, and while on state roads you'll see a WELCOME TO PENNSYLVANIA / WELCOME TO MARYLAND, on minor roads you're lucky if you get a stone marker with a M engraved on the Maryland side and P engraved on the Pennsylvania side.

That's Eastern Massachusetts. The minor roads in Western Massachusetts might have a boundary marker. Minor roads in Vermont almost never have signs and the only indication you're in Vermont is often the lack of CR markers.

[bzakharin]

UK uses imperial for road signs. Northern Ireland went metric in 2005.

No they didn't. As part of the UK, Northern Ireland still uses mph on their roads. The non-UK portion or Ireland (ROI) uses metric.

Yeah, it's fairly obvious when you cross the border.

https://goo.gl/maps/emVbjGhTXv52

What's amazing to me is that this is the *only* indication that you crossed into a different country. In the US, crossing a *state* line is a bigger deal on all but the smallest roads:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0527172,-74.0254249,3a,75y,63.71h,101.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sn25spanjAZNCwNOrU2SUvA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en-US

The sign is there because NY 304 is a state highway.  Note that there is no "welcome to NJ" sign in the other direction.  Heck, even US 11 doesn't have a sign coming into PA, and where NY 7A crosses the state line, only this: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9980865,-75.7648738,3a,75y,182h,73.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLNkL7nNIsCH7pEU8C7qUfA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en-US

Signs are typically only posted for state-maintained highways. None of the more minor crossings into New York are signed, except maybe with a county line sign if the road is county-maintained.

Typically.  However:

This kind of signage is fairly common (though not universal) on minor roads leading out of Massachusetts.
This kind of sign is typical of entering New Hampshire from Maine or Vermont on a minor road (not the blue "STATE LINE" sign, but rather the vertical sign with "S/L" on an Old Man of the Mountain silhouette with the town name you're entering in black on white on the left and "NEW HAMPSHIRE" in white on green on the right).

I guess it's a New England thing.  I live very close to the Mason-Dixon Line, and while on state roads you'll see a WELCOME TO PENNSYLVANIA / WELCOME TO MARYLAND, on minor roads you're lucky if you get a stone marker with a M engraved on the Maryland side and P engraved on the Pennsylvania side.

That's Eastern Massachusetts. The minor roads in Western Massachusetts might have a boundary marker. Minor roads in Vermont almost never have signs and the only indication you're in Vermont is often the lack of CR markers.

Minor roads across the NY/NJ border tend to vary. Sometimes you get the county name like here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0462693,-74.0135665,3a,37.5y,224.87h,76.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKB61Wh5ngQmF1QwVpvjqLA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en-US
Or just the town name like here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0468646,-74.0135225,3a,75y,358.45h,66.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scotYCIL9Bsq3cixL7DuJQg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en-US
Often just a change in the way the speed limit is signed. Oddly enough, I have never seen county line signs *within* NJ except on the GS Parkway and Atlantic City Expressway

[tckma]

Minor roads across the NY/NJ border tend to vary. Sometimes you get the county name like here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0462693,-74.0135665,3a,37.5y,224.87h,76.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKB61Wh5ngQmF1QwVpvjqLA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en-US
Or just the town name like here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0468646,-74.0135225,3a,75y,358.45h,66.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scotYCIL9Bsq3cixL7DuJQg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en-US
Often just a change in the way the speed limit is signed. Oddly enough, I have never seen county line signs *within* NJ except on the GS Parkway and Atlantic City Expressway

That's kind of like what you might get on the MD/PA border.  The only indications that you're crossing a state line here are the change to terrible quality pavement (because Pennsylvania is terrible at road maintenance), the speed limit sign, and the "END CARROLL COUNTY MAINTENANCE," all of which might be missed, and the latter two are used elsewhere -- end county maintenance where a road shifts from county to city or state maintenance within MD.  Similarly, here.

This is the stone marker I was talking about.  This is an interesting case, though, in that on the PA side it's a state highway (there's an "END PA-134" reassurance marker just before this stone marker), but on the MD side it's a county route (county routes exist on paper in MD but are never signed).  Notice that in the opposite direction you get the very first PA-134 reassurance marker and a blue Welcome to Pennsylvania sign not to far ahead of that.

The transition is pretty obvious on a state highway, of course.

[cl94]

Minor roads across the NY/NJ border tend to vary. Sometimes you get the county name like here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0462693,-74.0135665,3a,37.5y,224.87h,76.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKB61Wh5ngQmF1QwVpvjqLA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en-US
Or just the town name like here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0468646,-74.0135225,3a,75y,358.45h,66.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scotYCIL9Bsq3cixL7DuJQg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en-US
Often just a change in the way the speed limit is signed. Oddly enough, I have never seen county line signs *within* NJ except on the GS Parkway and Atlantic City Expressway

That's kind of like what you might get on the MD/PA border.  The only indications that you're crossing a state line here are the change to terrible quality pavement (because Pennsylvania is terrible at road maintenance), the speed limit sign, and the "END CARROLL COUNTY MAINTENANCE," all of which might be missed, and the latter two are used elsewhere -- end county maintenance where a road shifts from county to city or state maintenance within MD.  Similarly, here.

This is the stone marker I was talking about.  This is an interesting case, though, in that on the PA side it's a state highway (there's an "END PA-134" reassurance marker just before this stone marker), but on the MD side it's a county route (county routes exist on paper in MD but are never signed).  Notice that in the opposite direction you get the very first PA-134 reassurance marker and a blue Welcome to Pennsylvania sign not to far ahead of that.

The transition is pretty obvious on a state highway, of course.

Pavement quality is the reason why the PA border from any state might be the easiest land border to spot  . Boundary markers like that are often the only indication of the NY-VT line.

[jakeroot]

Pardon the bump. This is the best thread for this tweet:

https://twitter.com/QAGreenways/status/1195242731473260544

[JREwing78]

I came across this video on the history of lane markings. I figured this would be good food for thought:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KYBaoNPNgA

[kphoger]

I wonder how many threads is that video going to end up in...

[jakeroot]

Biggish bump.

This merge from Kaumana Rd to westbound Saddle Road on Hawaii (the big island) has 12 "merge left" arrows painted into the ground.

Hawaii loves pavement markings, and seems to use a lot of them where other states might not use any, but even this might be overkill:

[seicer]

That's also an overkill design for what is a minor side road. Does it need its own acceleration and deceleration lane (especially from the south)?

Speaking of Hawaii: https://goo.gl/maps/j9gRHARRNchcruUJ7 and https://goo.gl/maps/R1E8WdWuqeLbX95n7 - what's going on here?

[Rothman]

That's also an overkill design for what is a minor side road. Does it need its own acceleration and deceleration lane (especially from the south)?

Speaking of Hawaii: https://goo.gl/maps/j9gRHARRNchcruUJ7 and https://goo.gl/maps/R1E8WdWuqeLbX95n7 - what's going on here?

Looks like there was a British invasion.

[roadfro]

Biggish bump.

This merge from Kaumana Rd to westbound Saddle Road on Hawaii (the big island) has 12 "merge left" arrows painted into the ground.

Hawaii loves pavement markings, and seems to use a lot of them where other states might not use any, but even this might be overkill:

Yeah, super overkill on the arrows. Two or three arrows near the end of the lane would be sufficient. I doubt all the through arrows next to some of the merge arrows are necessary also.

But I do like the use of the stripe/broken line along the acceleration lane–such was discussed elsewhere, but I'm really surprised that application is not in the MUTCD.

[jakeroot]

Speaking of Hawaii: https://goo.gl/maps/j9gRHARRNchcruUJ7 and https://goo.gl/maps/R1E8WdWuqeLbX95n7 - what's going on here?

Looks like there was a British invasion.

It's definitely a British thing.

Seattle also uses zig-zag markings, but just at a couple locations. Here's one along Henderson St SW. Note that the zig-zag markings replaced all of the markings here, rather than complimenting them as in the Hawaii example:

[jakeroot]

Biggish bump.

This merge from Kaumana Rd to westbound Saddle Road on Hawaii (the big island) has 12 "merge left" arrows painted into the ground.

Hawaii loves pavement markings, and seems to use a lot of them where other states might not use any, but even this might be overkill:

Yeah, super overkill on the arrows. Two or three arrows near the end of the lane would be sufficient. I doubt all the through arrows next to some of the merge arrows are necessary also.

But I do like the use of the stripe/broken line along the acceleration lane–such was discussed elsewhere, but I'm really surprised that application is not in the MUTCD.

What's strange to me is why they'd paint the arrows so early, when the lane is so long. It gets to the point where staying in that lane until the end might be awkward.

That Hawaiian-style stripe/broken line is such a cool idea. I'm not sure I realized it wasn't in the MUTCD, but then I've never seen it elsewhere in the US. Gotta wonder who thought to first use it.

That's also an overkill design for what is a minor side road. Does it need its own acceleration and deceleration lane (especially from the south)?

Probably not, although Hawaii uses slip lanes with dedicated turning lanes on a very frequent basis, to the point where I'm thinking it's standard policy.

edit: specified claim.

[riiga]

That Hawaiian-style stripe/broken line is such a cool idea. I'm not sure I realized it wasn't in the MUTCD, but then I've never seen it elsewhere. Gotta wonder who thought to first use it.

It's used in Belgium. Norway does a different but similar thing.

[kphoger]

That Hawaiian-style stripe/broken line is such a cool idea. I'm not sure I realized it wasn't in the MUTCD, but then I've never seen it elsewhere. Gotta wonder who thought to first use it.

It's used in Belgium. Norway does a different but similar thing.

Man, that Belgium example looks slick!

[jakeroot]

That Hawaiian-style stripe/broken line is such a cool idea. I'm not sure I realized it wasn't in the MUTCD, but then I've never seen it elsewhere. Gotta wonder who thought to first use it.

It's used in Belgium. Norway does a different but similar thing.

Sorry, should have specified "elsewhere in the US".

Man, that Belgium example looks slick!

I agree, that's very interesting!

[MCRoads]

The Verrazano Narrows bridge has little to no room for signage on the lower deck, so they do this for the entire bridge, almost 2 miles. With the way those people drive, that might not be ENOUGH warning!

If only they did that for the bridges in PA, because you are basically on your own on the lower decks. This sign shows just how bad it must be, because they had to put a sign to alert drivers to the weaving!

[stevashe]

Biggish bump.

This merge from Kaumana Rd to westbound Saddle Road on Hawaii (the big island) has 12 "merge left" arrows painted into the ground.

Hawaii loves pavement markings, and seems to use a lot of them where other states might not use any, but even this might be overkill:

Yeah, super overkill on the arrows. Two or three arrows near the end of the lane would be sufficient. I doubt all the through arrows next to some of the merge arrows are necessary also.

But I do like the use of the stripe/broken line along the acceleration lane–such was discussed elsewhere, but I'm really surprised that application is not in the MUTCD.

What's strange to me is why they'd paint the arrows so early, when the lane is so long. It gets to the point where staying in that lane until the end might be awkward.

That Hawaiian-style stripe/broken line is such a cool idea. I'm not sure I realized it wasn't in the MUTCD, but then I've never seen it elsewhere in the US. Gotta wonder who thought to first use it.

Speaking of excessive lane drop arrows, I noticed when I visited Montana that MDT's standard for such arrows seems to be that groups of three arrows are used where most states would normally use just one, with at least two groups of arrows. I'm not sure if there are any locations with 4 groups, and thus 12 arrows like the Hawaii example, but it's also widespread as opposed to just one location.

Here's an example with three sets, for a total of 9 arrows.


I'm also noticing that Jake's Hawaii picture features a ton of thru arrows as well, even along the direction departing the intersection. That seems even more excessive/more marking than normal to me!



And regarding the broken white line next to the solid white line, I really like how Hawaii uses that too. Maybe we should comment on the MUTCD/suggest experiments for its use?

I do know of another place it was used, Connecticut (maybe other states in the NE as well) sometimes uses it at the end of uphill climbing lanes meant for use by slower traffic, though they may be phasing this out (maybe since it's not MUTCD compliant?) since I saw some places where the solid stripe disappeared after repaving.

Here's an example on I-84. This also shows the last dash before the solid/broken line starts; this is used along the rest of the climbing lane. I like this as well since it clearly defines the climbing lane as having a different use from the thru lanes.

[CoreySamson]

College Blvd in Clute, TX has  some of the most dangerous road markings I've seen, as these dashed lines should be white, not yellow! In some areas the yellow has faded so much that it appears white. What's weird is the next city over, Lake Jackson, also has this error at a mall entrance!