I'll be 45 in less than two months and never had children. At this point, what's the use in having them? People do ask me sometimes why I don't and/or if I do want children. If I had a kid now, I'll be on Social Security by the time he or she graduates. I've come up with another reason as to why I don't have children: I'm afraid they may be ugly!
neat
Having a child is, In a sense, a gamble. It can be a drain on the wallet but there are a variety of factors when it comes to that, from predetermined medical reasons to having the power of saying "no" when they want to get something they really don't need..
Your child could be valuable, being popular in school and getting lots of awards & scholarships, or they could be a sad sack of shit like me.
If I ever had kids I'd probably forget they exist then they'd die of starvation or something. I have awful habits, forget about basic tasks a lot (and I suspect I may have ADHD too)...Now imagine me with children.
Everyone I know who has kids looks overwhelmed and constantly stressed out. Worse, they seem to lack mobility or really the means to do the things they want. I look at my own life at almost 37 years and that kind of thing spooks me or makes me at least hesitant about kids. Money really isn't thing at this point that worries me, it is lack of freedom. I almost think that it would have been easier earlier in life but I wasn't married until recently and had zero interest in kids outside of marriage.
I agree on the confining aspects of parenthood, but many who are parents consider the entire experience to be a blessing rather than a curse.
As for me, if anyone asks me why I have none (that I know of, as I often reply), I explain that it is mainly due to one seriously important prerequisite - being born as I was without the basic abilities to relate to people, I have never had a way with women. To me they have always been little more than unapproachable strange alien creatures.
:meh:
Mike
yikes, this is a depressing thread.
I can't be the only roadgeek that has kids?
Quote from: mgk920 on September 20, 2019, 01:41:13 AM
I agree on the confining aspects of parenthood, but many who are parents consider the entire experience to be a blessing rather than a curse.
Really? Almost all of mine who broach the topic say they wish they hadn't had kids and even sometimes that they wish they hadn't gotten married. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that people actually know what they are missing out on these days given how much of the world is at your finger tips via the internet. What also hurts the case for kids is that it is more expensive to have them than really ever before and there is no ROI. At least my cousins in Minnesota had to work on the family farm and actually produce until they were 18. I was essentially my Dad's lacky in terms of construction and maintenance until we downsized from several acres to a condo.
Well, consider me your first parent that doesn't regret having kids. I do know many other parents that are happily married and happily raise their kids. They'll admit it is work, but very much worth it.
I think there's some bias here. Roadgeeks seem to be a solitary bunch overall. Being social isn't a priority and in some cases are difficult due to being on the spectrum or having other characteristics. It would be little wonder that roadgeeks in general devalue family life and relationships to some degree.
Quote from: Rothman on September 20, 2019, 08:56:43 AMI can't be the only roadgeek that has kids?
One female user on this site, Laura, just recently had a baby (Lorraine aka Rainee); so you're not the only one.
Quote from: Rothman on September 20, 2019, 10:18:23 AM
Well, consider me your first parent that doesn't regret having kids. I do know many other parents that are happily married and happily raise their kids. They'll admit it is work, but very much worth it.
I think there's some bias here. Roadgeeks seem to be a solitary bunch overall. Being social isn't a priority and in some cases are difficult due to being on the spectrum or having other characteristics. It would be little wonder that roadgeeks in general devalue family life and relationships to some degree.
Speaking for myself it isn't a social thing, I just simply could have had the life I have now if I had kids in my 20s. From a dollar and cents perspective really someone needs to be all in with that or it isn't going to be good for the parents or the child/children. Aside from the money aspect the biggest misgiving is that it hampers mobility. In my case I've moved across the country four times in the last two decades for work. When I was a kid my Dad did the same thing and it definitely had a negative effect on me and my siblings, or at least at the time was hard due instability not being the forte usually of someone under 18. My Dad probably was held back in his career due to family and children but I think back then it was more expected to have those attachments in the business world out of obligation rather than something you wanted.
Quote from: mgk920 on September 20, 2019, 01:41:13 AM
many who are parents consider the entire experience to be a blessing rather than a curse.
Uh, yeah, doesn't that go without saying? It baffles me how anyone could even say the opposite.
I would even go so far as to say if you think it's a curse,
you are the problem, not your kids.
Quote from: csw on September 20, 2019, 08:53:13 AM
yikes, this is a depressing thread.
Yeah... and I envision it going off the rails fairly quickly too...
My wife is unable to have children, so that makes it easy. I knew this before we got married, and it was more important to me to be with her than it was to have kids. I don't think I would be a very good father anyway for a variety of reasons, and that's something I've thought about several times this summer because my father's death in July caused me to reflect on all sorts of things. I couldn't have been half the father my dad was, and I don't think that would be fair to a kid. I was very lucky to have an outstanding father who devoted a lot of time to us.
Plus, frankly, my career took a turn in 2008 that would have made raising kids a serious financial struggle.
Quote from: webny99 on September 20, 2019, 12:29:59 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on September 20, 2019, 01:41:13 AM
many who are parents consider the entire experience to be a blessing rather than a curse.
Uh, yeah, doesn't that go without saying? It baffles me how anyone could even say the opposite.
I would even go so far as to say if you think it's a curse, you are the problem, not your kids.
Quote from: csw on September 20, 2019, 08:53:13 AM
yikes, this is a depressing thread.
Yeah... and I envision it going off the rails fairly quickly too...
How is it depressing? I don't consider it depressing at all that I don't have any kids at this point. It was absolutely 100% the correct choice to make within the circumstances I had and what I wanted to make with them. And yes, to a lot of people having kids is literally the worst thing that has happened to them planned or not. Even if someone thought that way it doesn't make them by default a terrible parent.
I know a number of roadgeeks (forum participants and otherwise) who have kids.
However, I do not.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 20, 2019, 12:41:11 PM
Quote from: webny99 on September 20, 2019, 12:29:59 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on September 20, 2019, 01:41:13 AM
many who are parents consider the entire experience to be a blessing rather than a curse.
Uh, yeah, doesn't that go without saying? It baffles me how anyone could even say the opposite.
I would even go so far as to say if you think it's a curse, you are the problem, not your kids.
Quote from: csw on September 20, 2019, 08:53:13 AM
yikes, this is a depressing thread.
Yeah... and I envision it going off the rails fairly quickly too...
How is it depressing? I don't consider it depressing at all that I don't have any kids at this point. It was absolutely 100% the correct choice to make within the circumstances I had and what I wanted to make with them. And yes, to a lot of people having kids is literally the worst thing that has happened to them planned or not. Even if someone thought that way it doesn't make them by default a terrible parent.
I second this as not depressing. Some people just aren't cut out to be parents or just don't want them, that's how it is and there's nothing wrong with that.
What is actually depressing is someone who does not want kids having them and raising them...An uninvolved parent who doesn't like their kids, more than often, sets them up to have a pretty bad childhood and life overall. I've known people who have had one parent not give a single crap about their kid... (They cared more about painkillers.) Trust me, they'd be much better off being raised by one parent alone who cares rather than with two parents, one who wants nothing to do with it.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 20, 2019, 12:02:00 AM
Everyone I know who has kids looks overwhelmed and constantly stressed out. Worse, they seem to lack mobility or really the means to do the things they want. I look at my own life at almost 37 years and that kind of thing spooks me or makes me at least hesitant about kids. Money really isn't thing at this point that worries me, it is lack of freedom. I almost think that it would have been easier earlier in life but I wasn't married until recently and had zero interest in kids outside of marriage.
Same - especially since I'm on the spectrum and have issues with things like motivation/energy to do things after work, needing routine, things planned out in advance, not having changes to plans, time alone, etc. Having kids would basically mean regularly dealing with things that I'm already not great at dealing with. Plus my social issues would make finding a partner and raising kids hard regardless.
Quote from: Rothman on September 20, 2019, 10:18:23 AM
I think there's some bias here. Roadgeeks seem to be a solitary bunch overall. Being social isn't a priority and in some cases are difficult due to being on the spectrum or having other characteristics. It would be little wonder that roadgeeks in general devalue family life and relationships to some degree.
Now that this thread is making me think about it, of the roadgeeks I've met in person, a disproportionate of the ones who are married with kids are not on this forum or don't post as often.
I have a friend who had his first child at the age of 46 and now at the age of 51 is the father of 3. I don't think that he or his wife (who is 4 or 5 years younger) wanted kids and I think the first one was an "oops" but then they discovered that they liked being parents. I've know him since high school and her for over 10 years and they're both happier now than I've ever seen them. So if it's something you want don't give up on it just because you are 45. And there's nothing wrong with you if you don't want kids... I don't. I'm just not looking forward to my 60's and 70's when people will be talking about their grandchildren and feeling sorry/looking down on me for not having any.
Quote from: vdeane on September 20, 2019, 01:27:29 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 20, 2019, 12:02:00 AM
Everyone I know who has kids looks overwhelmed and constantly stressed out. Worse, they seem to lack mobility or really the means to do the things they want. I look at my own life at almost 37 years and that kind of thing spooks me or makes me at least hesitant about kids. Money really isn't thing at this point that worries me, it is lack of freedom. I almost think that it would have been easier earlier in life but I wasn't married until recently and had zero interest in kids outside of marriage.
Same - especially since I'm on the spectrum and have issues with things like motivation/energy to do things after work, needing routine, things planned out in advance, not having changes to plans, time alone, etc. Having kids would basically mean regularly dealing with things that I'm already not great at dealing with. Plus my social issues would make finding a partner and raising kids hard regardless.
Quote from: Rothman on September 20, 2019, 10:18:23 AM
I think there's some bias here. Roadgeeks seem to be a solitary bunch overall. Being social isn't a priority and in some cases are difficult due to being on the spectrum or having other characteristics. It would be little wonder that roadgeeks in general devalue family life and relationships to some degree.
Now that this thread is making me think about it, of the roadgeeks I've met in person, a disproportionate of the ones who are married with kids are not on this forum or don't post as often.
I've bucked the trend!
Quote from: Rothman on September 20, 2019, 08:56:43 AM
I can't be the only roadgeek that has kids?
I think there's several more, including yours truly.
Not everyone should be a parent, nor should everyone want to be, nor should there be any pressure from family or society in that regard.
That said, I have a four-year-old, and we can easily say (and do so everyday) that he is the best thing that has ever happened to us (even on the less-than-good days).
Even though I always wanted to be a parent, for a number of reasons we didn't have him until later, and that probably made a huge difference in how we approach it. In my 20s and early 30s I hadn't dealt adequately with my own (psychological) stuff, and that would have easily reflected in my parenting (it certainly played a role in my father's parenting). The same is true of my wife. Plus, we weren't as settled career-wise, and making a financial plan would have been trickier.
There are days when I think about being older, more tired, and working longer in life than I may have originally planned, but the trade-off for being more mature, wise, and all-around more ready to shepherd a new life with love and support is a no-brainer. It's a joy unlike anything I could have ever imagined.
But again, it is not for everyone. I think, once society progressed passed "survival mode" (i.e., the infant mortality rate dropped to a point where it wasn't necessary to have five children to make sure three made it to adulthood), we should have also evolved socially to where not having children was an acceptable, mainstream decision. But we didn't, and I think the "Greatest Generation," spooked by war and depression, had more children than they needed OR wanted (the Baby Boom), and a cycle of bad or neglectful parenting began that has reverberated through subsequent generations.
I'm 48 years old and don't have any children. My twin brother doesn't have any either. My older brother has three daughters. My younger sister has two sons. My older brother only became a father at the age of 33.
There's tremendous social pressure to have kids. Anyone who gets up into their 40s or beyond who doesn't have kids is invariably asked, "why not?" I've heard the question a zillion times.
Those who chose not to have kids don't owe anyone an explanation.
The worst ones are parents who think they're entitled to grandchildren.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 20, 2019, 04:43:50 PM
The worst ones are parents who think they're entitled to grandchildren.
My mother was on Medicare by the time she got grandchildren. She married late, and so did my sisters.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 20, 2019, 04:43:50 PM
There's tremendous social pressure to have kids. Anyone who gets up into their 40s or beyond who doesn't have kids is invariably asked, "why not?" I've heard the question a zillion times.
I think it depends a lot on one's family and surroundings.
I have a few relatives a generation before me who never had kids; some married, some not. So there really wasn't much pressure for either one of us, although my wife was the eldest amongst all of her family's cousins her age. On the other hand, I wasn't the oldest in my family's generation, so I never heard anything about settling down and having kids (one of the most under-rated oxymoronic terms). Societally, women are likely to hear more pressure about it because it's a transcendent threshold for life itself to occur.
Of course, people have all sorts of thoughts because there's all sorts of traditions that are slowly changing; but of course, they haven't. And I suppose it's because people want to talk about common interests, kids or no kids. The underlying reasons behind them weren't based on anything more concrete than needing more farmhands, hunters, gathers, or heirs. Later, we could trace it to a biological level that's not well understood, except maybe to scare off large predators which don't ravage us and our food supply as much as prehistoric times.
I'll step forward and say that at certain times it's tougher to hear about (though not impossible) to relate to people who don't have kids. And likewise, those without kids don't really want to hear stories about what's the right infant formula, does your little tike put things in its mouth, toilet training talk are pretty much out of the question, and hearing about the neat things they've discovered isn't going to be interesting to you. But it's no more so than hearing about a 20-something's adventures with dating and getting plastered last night, or how older folks just aren't interested in anything anymore. Likewise, age gaps, income gaps, and cultural differences are not so easy to bridge.
I get it, since I was the same way until I had kids after the age of 30. There's times my wife and I get away for a weekend, and wonder what might have been if we'd not had children. And that's an unanswerable question, I suppose; it's impossible to look at the photos of our kids and look back.
tl;dr People are free to do what they like with their lives. There's not a huge need to repopulate the planet, although I seriously can't understand how you'd like to be totally outnumbered by your progeny...it's different to everyone, naturally.
Quote
Those who chose not to have kids don't owe anyone an explanation.
True freedom is not having to explain yourself.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 20, 2019, 04:43:50 PM
There's tremendous social pressure to have kids. Anyone who gets up into their 40s or beyond who doesn't have kids is invariably asked, "why not?" I've heard the question a zillion times.
Those who chose not to have kids don't owe anyone an explanation.
The worst ones are parents who think they're entitled to grandchildren.
On occasion I get bothered by family about having kids. My Dad and Grandpa in particular were really big on having a "male heir" to carry on family name. Considering my siblings have two kids each I found that somewhat amusing at best and intrusive at worst that they held that opinion. Either way the so called "family name" was changed from what it was in England so I don't see brand equity like they did. My wife gets way more pressure from her family for kids since her family traditionally has a lot of them and there is some cultural expectations there also.
My mother was an only child.
My dad had two older sisters and two younger brothers. My grandmother has six grandchildren who survived infancy; four girls (three of whom have kids) and two boys (my brother and me). My brother and I are both married but neigther of us has any kids. So my grandfather's legacy of someone carrying on the Elkins name here will end, but there are plenty of other Elkinses around the Huntington, WV area that are related to a common ancestor a few generations back to keep the name going.
I can see why one wouldnt want children. You need to pay for health, education (unless you do public schools, which then you still might pay if your kid is interested in like Band or something), and some tourist attractions pay extra for kids. Also taking care of young kids is annoying as hell, I can tell. And when your kid is able to drive, driver insurance will explode...
Quote from: DTComposer on September 20, 2019, 04:26:36 PM
But again, it is not for everyone. I think, once society progressed passed "survival mode" (i.e., the infant mortality rate dropped to a point where it wasn't necessary to have five children to make sure three made it to adulthood), we should have also evolved socially to where not having children was an acceptable, mainstream decision. But we didn't, and I think the "Greatest Generation," spooked by war and depression, had more children than they needed OR wanted (the Baby Boom), and a cycle of bad or neglectful parenting began that has reverberated through subsequent generations.
That would certainly explain a lot about society.
Quote from: SoCal Kid on September 20, 2019, 09:28:47 PM
And when your kid is able to drive, driver insurance will explode...
There are ways to mitigate that. Between driver's ed, a safety program offered by State Farm, and a 4.0 GPA through High School and college, adding me to the family insurance policy wasn't much different than adding another adult driver.
Being on the spectrum makes the thought of dating anyone, much less having children, a very foreign concept. I would not have the fortitude of raising a cgild if I did ever have one.
Quote from: Mrt90 on September 20, 2019, 01:39:47 PM
I have a friend who had his first child at the age of 46 and now at the age of 51 is the father of 3. I don't think that he or his wife (who is 4 or 5 years younger) wanted kids and I think the first one was an "oops" but then they discovered that they liked being parents.
She had 3 children after the age of 41?
I think that deep down I want kids, but realistically it'll likely be a long time before that happens, if it ever does. I'm taking life very slowly right now, and I will probably graduate college later than normal, as I am taking three classes per semester (as I have learned it is personally impossible to sustainably and successfully take any more than that at one time). I'm not actively pursuing a relationship at the moment (although I'd be open if the opportunity happened to come along), therefore I don't see myself getting married anytime soon. So with all that said, I wouldn't be surprised if I ended up having kids in my 40's. It's never too late to have kids. I am on the spectrum, so as noted, that may present some challenges with things such as my social interaction and reading emotions and etc. I don't think I'm ready for kids yet, but time will tell what the future has in store for me.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 20, 2019, 08:52:09 PM
My mother was an only child.
My dad had two older sisters and two younger brothers. My grandmother has six grandchildren who survived infancy; four girls (three of whom have kids) and two boys (my brother and me). My brother and I are both married but neigther of us has any kids. So my grandfather's legacy of someone carrying on the Elkins name here will end, but there are plenty of other Elkinses around the Huntington, WV area that are related to a common ancestor a few generations back to keep the name going.
I got the same thing going with lots of loosely associated family sharing the same name in Maryland and West Virginia. My Uncle never had kids and my sister was the one who had a boy. I doubt my brother is interested in having a third kid this far into his 40s. Either way it's just a last name, really that isn't anything all that important in grand scheme of things.
As recently being diagnosed with ADHD and some Aspergers (yes I now have a primary care that cares) and having it pointed out that I inherited it from my mom, whom her and I had a rocky relationship for obvious reasons. Plus I never had it diagnosed as a child nor was it to my mom as when she grew up no one heard of these things then.
So after the rocky relationship I had with her, I do not want to repeat that with children of my own as well as past interactions caused me bad relationships with women as well as slowing me down from interaction with them in general as both ADHD and Aspergers both effect focus and concentrating and causes those suffering from them to miss cues from others or give out wrong cues and most of all not see the other individual for whom he or she really are do to the lack of focus blocks you from having depth and seeing that factor in others.
I do not want to lack focus around a child lacking focus and argue about things we agree on as neither of us will get each others point like mom and I. True, I am on meds now and able to learn more about how to perceive others, but I am in my mid 50's and think that too would add to having one to raise as well.
Quote from: adventurernumber1 on September 21, 2019, 10:43:50 AM
I think that deep down I want kids, but realistically it'll likely be a long time before that happens, if it ever does. I'm taking life very slowly right now, and I will probably graduate college later than normal, as I am taking three classes per semester (as I have learned it is personally impossible to sustainably and successfully take any more than that at one time). I'm not actively pursuing a relationship at the moment (although I'd be open if the opportunity happened to come along), therefore I don't see myself getting married anytime soon. So with all that said, I wouldn't be surprised if I ended up having kids in my 40's. It's never too late to have kids. I am on the spectrum, so as noted, that may present some challenges with things such as my social interaction and reading emotions and etc. I don't think I'm ready for kids yet, but time will tell what the future has in store for me.
I am very similar to you on this. I think the biggest thing to remember is that the social pressure to be in a relationship, get married, and have children is just that. None of us are less of a person for not having these things. Yes, I am very much talking to myself as I type this because I have struggled with my desire to be married and have children for many years even though I have always been single and have never gone on a date with a woman as of today.
Although there is definitely social pressure, social pressure can't be the only motivation for getting into relationships. Marriage is definitely a social construct, but relationships can certainly be motivated by sexual attraction or even just a desire for companionship or wanting to abate feelings of loneliness.
Excellent topic, and all of your responses remind me that you guys are the only people in the world that I can relate to.
I never really had a desire to be social. I t doesn't come naturally to me. I don't like that it requires so much effort and doing things you don't like or in some cases don't agree with, such as consuming alcohol.
I some ways I wouldn't mind a relationship, but the negatives far outweigh the positives. Many women are bitches, and will turn on you for no reason. My mother wasn't the nicest person to me growing up, and my father remarried a woman who was a horrible selfish bitch. She pretended to be a decent person, and only showed her real self after they got married. Seeing this, and all the other boomers that treated each other like crap make me afraid of women, and made me want to avoid relationships at all costs.
Then there the sex issue. All women would want you to fuck them on a regular basis. That would be a problem for me, because that aspect of human sexuality makes no sense to me. I don't understand for the life of me why people have sex when they are not trying to get pregnant. It is totally illogical. And don't get me started on oral...that's just plain nasty.
I actually think I could be a much better parent than most people, because I am smart enough to teach a kid what they really need to know.
The school system is complete garbage, and I would never want a kid to have to deal with it. Excessive homework, and a lot of the material taught is completely useless, and is just a time filler to avoid teaching kids how to be successful in life. I feel that the wealthy elites intentionally set it up this way so the poor kids wont be completion for their kids. All the algebra is totally unnecessary, and is a stumbling block that prevents otherwise capable kids form passing.
I am smart enough to realize what an unpleasant place this word is, and would not want to have kids deal with it. I mean think about it...you work 5 days and get two off...that makes for a miserable life.
Something that you guys didn't mention that really annoys me is that the entire system is designed around and for people with kids. There are no houses for single people. Breeders rip off non-breeders by making them pay for their kids schooling via property taxes.
There's another thread around here somewhere named "toilet enthusiasts."
This is why I don't want children.
Having said that, who wants mine? :bigass:
Brian's comment about alcohol is a head-scratcher. I have never had a friendship that has required me to drink alcohol. Gone to bars with friends and drank my Sprite as they drank whatever, but I've never felt forced to drink alcohol.
In terms of getting "ripped off," I am sure paying property taxes and having kids in school is better than the alternative of having kids running around you all the time. :D
Quote from: Brian556 on September 22, 2019, 01:00:33 AM
I never really had a desire to be social. I t doesn't come naturally to me. I don't like that it requires so much effort and doing things you don't like or in some cases don't agree with, such as consuming alcohol.
This means that you haven't found the right people to be social with. Sitting in bars drinking is a default activity that people who don't have anything more interesting to do at the moment do. My social activities involve playing games with a group of three other people. Some people play sports as their social activity, others play music, and so on. Find someone that wants to do something with you that you want to do. Hell, roadmeets prove that even roadgeeking can be a fun social activity, if you can find someone that lives nearby who will go with you.
QuoteI some ways I wouldn't mind a relationship, but the negatives far outweigh the positives. Many women are bitches, and will turn on you for no reason. My mother wasn't the nicest person to me growing up, and my father remarried a woman who was a horrible selfish bitch. She pretended to be a decent person, and only showed her real self after they got married. Seeing this, and all the other boomers that treated each other like crap make me afraid of women, and made me want to avoid relationships at all costs.
The proportion of shitty women is exactly the same as the proportion of shitty men. You just aren't looking for the shitty men because you aren't interested in dating them.
Solution: if a woman is shitty, dump her and find one that isn't shitty.
QuoteThen there the sex issue. All women would want you to fuck them on a regular basis. That would be a problem for me, because that aspect of human sexuality makes no sense to me. I don't understand for the life of me why people have sex when they are not trying to get pregnant. It is totally illogical. And don't get me started on oral...that's just plain nasty.
If you ever do it, you may understand why people enjoy the activity. Otherwise, you may simply identify as asexual and not know it yet. Probably something you need to do some research on and come to a personal conclusion on.
QuoteBreeders rip off non-breeders by making them pay for their kids schooling via property taxes.
I prefer to think of this as a tax that I pay for the city to prevent the development of stupid people in my area. Well worth it, in my opinion.
Quote from: Rothman on September 22, 2019, 12:07:20 AM
Although there is definitely social pressure, social pressure can't be the only motivation for getting into relationships. Marriage is definitely a social construct, but relationships can certainly be motivated by sexual attraction or even just a desire for companionship or wanting to abate feelings of loneliness.
Agreed. While companionship and loneliness play a part in it for me, social pressure by far has been the biggest issue for me personally. The thought of letting others down for being single led to very poor treatment of myself for many years that I am just starting to move forward past.
The world needs more people like Scott.
Look at it this way, it's a bit tougher for us married-with-kids to just get up and drive on a cross-country trip. I mean, we could plan it, but it takes more time and patience. Or that my weekends for my wife and kids, so roadmeets just aren't on the menu with all the other things that go on. I don't ask anyone to give me much solace in that department; after all, those are the choices I've made, and because none of you are held responsible for my decisions.
Quote from: Brian556 on September 22, 2019, 01:00:33 AM
Something that you guys didn't mention that really annoys me is that the entire system is designed around and for people with kids.
This I'll agree with; our economy is kind of rigged towards rewarding marriage through taxes, and real estate ownership for middle and lower classes is much easier on two incomes. The theory is that married folks contribute to the economy "better" this way. I'm not saying that's a reason to get married and/or have kids (if so, those are probably the worst reasons for either situation), but that's how it is...it creates a bit of long-term perpetuity in our economy.
QuoteThere are no houses for single people.
Well, smaller homes are an answer. After all, the larger house means a longer walk to the refrigerator, and more to maintain.
Want something more?
Work Harder and/or Smarter is the mantra, then.
QuoteBreeders rip off non-breeders by making them pay for their kids schooling via property taxes.
If you're implying that we sell our children off like plants or animals, then that underlined word makes sense. Otherwise, keep that disgusting term to yourself.
In a nutshell: Schools keep the kids off the streets, makes them able to take on jobs, and guess what...you were a kid too, once. Pay up sucker!
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 22, 2019, 02:38:12 PM
Quote from: Brian556 on September 22, 2019, 01:00:33 AM
QuoteThen there the sex issue. All women would want you to fuck them on a regular basis. That would be a problem for me, because that aspect of human sexuality makes no sense to me. I don't understand for the life of me why people have sex when they are not trying to get pregnant. It is totally illogical. And don't get me started on oral...that's just plain nasty.
If you ever do it, you may understand why people enjoy the activity. Otherwise, you may simply identify as asexual and not know it yet. Probably something you need to do some research on and come to a personal conclusion on.
As someone who does consider myself to be on the asexuality spectrum this is definitely worth looking into. I felt similar feelings for the longest time and I thought I was just weird or a "late bloomer" about that kind of stuff because I never experienced any desire for it, nor any significant attraction to any sex, absolutely none for the opposite and only a vague amount for the same. I'd then heard about asexuality and it seemed to fit my bill perfectly. Now I feel pretty content describing myself as that. There's way more to it for me but that's the broadest label I can describe myself with.
Quote from: formulanone on September 22, 2019, 04:51:35 PM
QuoteBreeders rip off non-breeders by making them pay for their kids schooling via property taxes.
If you're implying that we sell our children off like plants or animals, then that underlined word makes sense. Otherwise, keep that disgusting term to yourself.
Glad I was not the only one who was bothered by the use of that term, although I have to admit it's the first time I have ever seen it used in such a derogatory fashion by someone who is straight. It's typically a term of derision used by homosexual persons about heterosexual persons with children. Or at least that's the only context in which I've seen it used, and I've seen it used there plenty.
I've got news for you: If your parents weren't "breeders," you wouldn't be here.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 22, 2019, 08:09:46 PM
Quote from: formulanone on September 22, 2019, 04:51:35 PM
QuoteBreeders rip off non-breeders by making them pay for their kids schooling via property taxes.
If you're implying that we sell our children off like plants or animals, then that underlined word makes sense. Otherwise, keep that disgusting term to yourself.
Glad I was not the only one who was bothered by the use of that term, although I have to admit it's the first time I have ever seen it used in such a derogatory fashion by someone who is straight. It's typically a term of derision used by homosexual persons about heterosexual persons with children. Or at least that's the only context in which I've seen it used, and I've seen it used there plenty.
I've got news for you: If your parents weren't "breeders," you wouldn't be here.
I've never seen the term used in regard to sexuality at all, and I know whole mounds of people who consider themselves to be LGBT, but there is a small sect of folks I've interacted with called "antinatalists" who believe creating human life is unethical. They use the term a lot. They're generally not a very happy bunch. I totally can't imagine why.
Abortion's an ortion.
Quote from: Beltway on September 22, 2019, 11:41:16 PM
Quote from: NE2 on September 22, 2019, 10:38:42 PM
Abortion's an ortion.
So is hanging
So is the plague. We need another one, there's way too many people :bigass:
So much going on in this thread (in a good way, I enjoyed reading the responses).
I only have a son and he's an adult now so I'm on cruise control at this point. I used to want a daughter too just so I can say I have one of each but couldn't find a woman I was actually willing to knock up. By the time I reached my 30's I was like fuck that lmao.
At this point I only bother to date women 40 and up whose kids are already grown or are almost there... I have no patience for little kids anymore, especially nowadays where most of them is bad as hell, spoiled as hell and being raised by the internet.
Quote from: Beltway on September 20, 2019, 11:56:55 PM
Quote from: Mrt90 on September 20, 2019, 01:39:47 PM
I have a friend who had his first child at the age of 46 and now at the age of 51 is the father of 3. I don't think that he or his wife (who is 4 or 5 years younger) wanted kids and I think the first one was an "oops" but then they discovered that they liked being parents.
She had 3 children after the age of 41?
Yes, 3 in 4 years starting at 41.
Quote from: Mrt90 on September 23, 2019, 10:40:55 AM
Quote from: Beltway on September 20, 2019, 11:56:55 PM
Quote from: Mrt90 on September 20, 2019, 01:39:47 PM
I have a friend who had his first child at the age of 46 and now at the age of 51 is the father of 3. I don't think that he or his wife (who is 4 or 5 years younger) wanted kids and I think the first one was an "oops" but then they discovered that they liked being parents.
She had 3 children after the age of 41?
Yes, 3 in 4 years starting at 41.
Interesting, that is extremely rare to have that kind of fertility from 41 to 45 at all, let alone starting at 41.
Quote from: index on September 22, 2019, 08:15:47 PM
I've never seen the term used in regard to sexuality at all, and I know whole mounds of people who consider themselves to be LGBT, but there is a small sect of folks I've interacted with called "antinatalists" who believe creating human life is unethical. They use the term a lot. They're generally not a very happy bunch. I totally can't imagine why.
I guess they miss the whole point of why human sexuality is what it is and why human anatomy is what it is. It's meant for reproduction, and feeling good is just a bonus.
People who get appendectomies forget the whole reason we have an appendix.
Quote from: Beltway on September 23, 2019, 11:58:59 AM
Quote from: Mrt90 on September 23, 2019, 10:40:55 AM
Quote from: Beltway on September 20, 2019, 11:56:55 PM
Quote from: Mrt90 on September 20, 2019, 01:39:47 PM
I have a friend who had his first child at the age of 46 and now at the age of 51 is the father of 3. I don't think that he or his wife (who is 4 or 5 years younger) wanted kids and I think the first one was an "oops" but then they discovered that they liked being parents.
She had 3 children after the age of 41?
Yes, 3 in 4 years starting at 41.
Interesting, that is extremely rare to have that kind of fertility from 41 to 45 at all, let alone starting at 41.
It's more common for wealthier couples who made decisions later in life. Probably more likely in bigger cities than small-town living.
Fertility treatments have become less expensive and more reliable. However, there are greater risks of pregnancy complications, miscarriages, or birth defects for expectant mothers over the age of 35. However, the magnitude of that increase seems to vary from study to study.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 23, 2019, 01:48:33 PM
I guess they miss the whole point of why human sexuality is what it is and why human anatomy is what it is. It's meant for reproduction, and feeling good is just a bonus.
Reproduction isn't an exact formula, sometimes it takes many tries before a conception occurs.
If sex wasn't desirable on an ongoing basis, many couples wouldn't be sufficiently motivated to actually ever get pregnant.
Quote from: formulanone on September 23, 2019, 04:38:42 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 23, 2019, 11:58:59 AM
Interesting, that is extremely rare to have that kind of fertility from 41 to 45 at all, let alone starting at 41.
It's more common for wealthier couples who made decisions later in life. Probably more likely in bigger cities than small-town living.
Fertility treatments have become less expensive and more reliable. However, there are greater risks of pregnancy complications, miscarriages, or birth defects for expectant mothers over the age of 35. However, the magnitude of that increase seems to vary from study to study.
No matter how much money someone has, that age span has about 1% fertility rate.
I have 2 kids. My son will be 21 in 3 weeks. My daughter...whom I adopted almost 3 years ago...is 13 going on 30. Night-and-day difference between raising a boy and a girl.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 23, 2019, 01:48:33 PM
Quote from: index on September 22, 2019, 08:15:47 PM
I've never seen the term used in regard to sexuality at all, and I know whole mounds of people who consider themselves to be LGBT, but there is a small sect of folks I've interacted with called "antinatalists" who believe creating human life is unethical. They use the term a lot. They're generally not a very happy bunch. I totally can't imagine why.
I guess they miss the whole point of why human sexuality is what it is and why human anatomy is what it is. It's meant for reproduction, and feeling good is just a bonus.
Well, not really a 'bonus' - if it was not 'pleasurable' to whatever species, that species would quickly go extinct due to 'lack of interest' in reproducing.
Mike
Quote from: Beltway on September 23, 2019, 09:14:53 PM
Quote from: formulanone on September 23, 2019, 04:38:42 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 23, 2019, 11:58:59 AM
Interesting, that is extremely rare to have that kind of fertility from 41 to 45 at all, let alone starting at 41.
It's more common for wealthier couples who made decisions later in life. Probably more likely in bigger cities than small-town living.
Fertility treatments have become less expensive and more reliable. However, there are greater risks of pregnancy complications, miscarriages, or birth defects for expectant mothers over the age of 35. However, the magnitude of that increase seems to vary from study to study.
No matter how much money someone has, that age span has about 1% fertility rate.
And I remember reading numerous articles on that subject over the past couple of decades - mainly centering among post Baby Boomer (ie, 'Xers' and so forth) women living the self-actualized 'liberated woman' lifestyle of careers, etc, getting to the mid-upper 30s and lower 40s, beginning to sense that there is 'something missing' from their lives and learning, to their collective horrors, that the progress of medical and biological sciences technologies have not slowed down the natural 'clocks' in women one bit.
:-o
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on September 24, 2019, 09:37:20 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 23, 2019, 09:14:53 PM
No matter how much money someone has, that age span has about 1% fertility rate.
And I remember reading numerous articles on that subject over the past couple of decades - mainly centering among post Baby Boomer (ie, 'Xers' and so forth) women living the self-actualized 'liberated woman' lifestyle of careers, etc, getting to the mid-upper 30s and lower 40s, beginning to sense that there is 'something missing' from their lives and learning, to their collective horrors, that the progress of medical and biological sciences technologies have not slowed down the natural 'clocks' in women one bit.
At those ages it is called "hitting the wall". The threshold age for what gynecologists call "advanced maternal age" is still 35 years old, just like it was 30 years ago.
My friends give me a hard time because my dad waited until his late 50s to have me, but that was because it was a second marriage. :poke:
My wife and I (first marriage for both) met when I was 41 and she was 46, and now I'm almost 49 and she's almost 54. At this point, we could have kids, but I don't think it would work very well because of our age
Quote from: Rothman on September 20, 2019, 01:49:49 PM
Quote from: vdeane on September 20, 2019, 01:27:29 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 20, 2019, 12:02:00 AM
Everyone I know who has kids looks overwhelmed and constantly stressed out. Worse, they seem to lack mobility or really the means to do the things they want. I look at my own life at almost 37 years and that kind of thing spooks me or makes me at least hesitant about kids. Money really isn't thing at this point that worries me, it is lack of freedom. I almost think that it would have been easier earlier in life but I wasn't married until recently and had zero interest in kids outside of marriage.
Same - especially since I'm on the spectrum and have issues with things like motivation/energy to do things after work, needing routine, things planned out in advance, not having changes to plans, time alone, etc. Having kids would basically mean regularly dealing with things that I'm already not great at dealing with. Plus my social issues would make finding a partner and raising kids hard regardless.
Quote from: Rothman on September 20, 2019, 10:18:23 AM
I think there's some bias here. Roadgeeks seem to be a solitary bunch overall. Being social isn't a priority and in some cases are difficult due to being on the spectrum or having other characteristics. It would be little wonder that roadgeeks in general devalue family life and relationships to some degree.
Now that this thread is making me think about it, of the roadgeeks I've met in person, a disproportionate of the ones who are married with kids are not on this forum or don't post as often.
I've bucked the trend!
I have two kids, a son who's a sophomore in college and a daughter who's a senior in high school. But yes, I don't post in this forum as often as many do.
My wife and I married and had children later than a lot of others. I was 33 and she was 32 when we got married. I was 37 when we had our oldest.
I would never pressure anyone to have children--to each his own--but they're collectively the third best thing to ever happen in my life.
Quote from: formulanone on September 22, 2019, 04:51:35 PM
Quote from: Brian556 on September 22, 2019, 01:00:33 AM
Breeders rip off non-breeders by making them pay for their kids schooling via property taxes.
If you're implying that we sell our children off like plants or animals, then that underlined word makes sense. Otherwise, keep that disgusting term to yourself.
In a nutshell: Schools keep the kids off the streets, makes them able to take on jobs, and guess what...you were a kid too, once. Pay up sucker!
FYI, I know I was a kid once, and I remember how shitty it was. I gave up any hope of dating women in my late 20's, let alone having the opportunity to impregnate them. But one of the advantages of not being lucky enough to have kids is that you don't have to subject them to suffer under the repressive injustices of our school system.
Quote from: qguy on September 25, 2019, 06:45:24 AM
Quote from: Rothman on September 20, 2019, 01:49:49 PM
Quote from: vdeane on September 20, 2019, 01:27:29 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 20, 2019, 12:02:00 AM
Everyone I know who has kids looks overwhelmed and constantly stressed out. Worse, they seem to lack mobility or really the means to do the things they want. I look at my own life at almost 37 years and that kind of thing spooks me or makes me at least hesitant about kids. Money really isn't thing at this point that worries me, it is lack of freedom. I almost think that it would have been easier earlier in life but I wasn't married until recently and had zero interest in kids outside of marriage.
Same - especially since I'm on the spectrum and have issues with things like motivation/energy to do things after work, needing routine, things planned out in advance, not having changes to plans, time alone, etc. Having kids would basically mean regularly dealing with things that I'm already not great at dealing with. Plus my social issues would make finding a partner and raising kids hard regardless.
Quote from: Rothman on September 20, 2019, 10:18:23 AM
I think there's some bias here. Roadgeeks seem to be a solitary bunch overall. Being social isn't a priority and in some cases are difficult due to being on the spectrum or having other characteristics. It would be little wonder that roadgeeks in general devalue family life and relationships to some degree.
Now that this thread is making me think about it, of the roadgeeks I've met in person, a disproportionate of the ones who are married with kids are not on this forum or don't post as often.
I've bucked the trend!
I have two kids, a son who's a sophomore in college and a daughter who's a senior in high school. But yes, I don't post in this forum as often as many do.
My wife and I married and had children later than a lot of others. I was 33 and she was 32 when we got married. I was 37 when we had our oldest.
I would never pressure anyone to have children--to each his own--but they're collectively the third best thing to ever happen in my life.
Children are great as I got to see my two nieces and one nephew grow up from the babies they once were. I believe in NFP (natural family planning) as many who have participated in it claim that made them have more kids as that method of not having sex during the fertile period (which is only three days in a woman's cycle) made them think more about what they are doing. One man said him and his wife once believed in contraceptives and were changed when they learned about the NFP method. They only wanted one kid and now have three with no regrets and even can't imagine their life without any of them.
Quote from: D-Dey65 on September 25, 2019, 08:12:02 AM
But one of the advantages of not being lucky enough to have kids is that you don't have to subject them to suffer under the repressive injustices of our school system life itself.
Fixed that for you.
Quote from: roadman65 on September 25, 2019, 08:27:33 AM
Children are great as I got to see my two nieces and one nephew grow up from the babies they once were. I believe in NFP (natural family planning) as many who have participated in it claim that made them have more kids as that method of not having sex during the fertile period (which is only three days in a woman's cycle) made them think more about what they are doing. One man said him and his wife once believed in contraceptives and were changed when they learned about the NFP method. They only wanted one kid and now have three with no regrets and even can't imagine their life without any of them.
I got to see my sister's son grow up to be a spoiled, entitled brat who thinks the world owes him a handout.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on September 25, 2019, 10:11:18 AM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on September 25, 2019, 08:12:02 AM
But one of the advantages of not being lucky enough to have kids is that you don't have to subject them to suffer under the repressive injustices of our school system life itself.
Fixed that for you.
Not really. As adults we have the right to fight back if somebody attacks us. Kids who face this in school are chastised for it, and lied to about "other ways of handling it."
Quote from: D-Dey65 on September 25, 2019, 06:38:02 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on September 25, 2019, 10:11:18 AM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on September 25, 2019, 08:12:02 AM
But one of the advantages of not being lucky enough to have kids is that you don't have to subject them to suffer under the repressive injustices of our school system life itself.
Fixed that for you.
Not really. As adults we have the right to fight back if somebody attacks us. Kids who face this in school are chastised for it, and lied to about "other ways of handling it."
Reporting to a supervisor in school is equivalent to reporting to the police in real life. (Sometimes it does nothing, but this is true in both cases.)
Quote from: D-Dey65 on September 25, 2019, 06:38:02 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on September 25, 2019, 10:11:18 AM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on September 25, 2019, 08:12:02 AM
But one of the advantages of not being lucky enough to have kids is that you don't have to subject them to suffer under the repressive injustices of our school system life itself.
Fixed that for you.
Not really. As adults we have the right to fight back if somebody attacks us. Kids who face this in school are chastised for it, and lied to about "other ways of handling it."
DING-DING-DING we have a winner!
Let me rephrase that:
Kids who fight back in school are chastised for it, and lied to about "other ways of handling it." The thing about "reporting it to a supervisor" is that sometimes those "supervisors" will punish the victims on trumped-up charges like "screaming too loud," "disrupting class," "acting out" or whatever other excuse they want not to punish the kids who are picking fights. And then they wonder why some kids go on school shooting sprees, and blame it on irrelevant garbage like the video games you play, the music you listen to, the TV you watch, or some other lame excuses.
Quote from: D-Dey65 on September 25, 2019, 06:58:29 PM
Let me rephrase that:
Kids who fight back in school are chastised for it, and lied to about "other ways of handling it." The thing about "reporting it to a supervisor" is that sometimes those "supervisors" will punish the victims on trumped-up charges like "screaming too loud," "disrupting class," "acting out" or whatever other excuse they want not to punish the kids who are picking fights. And then they wonder why some kids go on school shooting sprees, and blame it on irrelevant garbage like the video games you play, the music you listen to, the TV you watch, or some other lame excuses.
My favorite line is the teacher who responds "what did you do to provoke the attack?"
My parents ultimately pulled me out of the government schools after the 8th grade, enrolling me in a private school instead, due to that. I'd fight back against the bullies, I'd get the neverending detentions while the bullies always got off scot free. *WHAT DOES THAT TEACH???*
:angry:
:verymad:
:banghead:
Had they not done so, I likely would have had to have dropped out the local high school for my own safety by sometime in my sophomore year or early junior year at the very latest.
:no:
Mike
And yes, there are countries, especially in Europe, where it is a major felony to fight back or 'protect yourself' against a criminal attack.
Mike
Quote from: Brian556 on September 22, 2019, 01:00:33 AM
Then there the sex issue. All women would want you to fuck them on a regular basis.
Where are you getting this idea from?
Real world: different people have different libidos, and you might be surprised how wide the range is.
Quote from: D-Dey65 on September 25, 2019, 06:58:29 PM
Let me rephrase that:
Kids who fight back in school are chastised for it, and lied to about "other ways of handling it." The thing about "reporting it to a supervisor" is that sometimes those "supervisors" will punish the victims on trumped-up charges like "screaming too loud," "disrupting class," "acting out" or whatever other excuse they want not to punish the kids who are picking fights. And then they wonder why some kids go on school shooting sprees, and blame it on irrelevant garbage like the video games you play, the music you listen to, the TV you watch, or some other lame excuses.
As someone who was in the Special Education System in the 1990s and 2000s, I can confirm this.
Quote from: Duke87 on September 26, 2019, 01:02:54 AM
Quote from: Brian556 on September 22, 2019, 01:00:33 AM
Then there the sex issue. All women would want you to fuck them on a regular basis.
Where are you getting this idea from?
Real world: different people have different libidos, and you might be surprised how wide the range is.
I dated one lady who needed "satisfying" on a regular basis. I dated another who put up barriers every time things started to heat up.
Then you have those people who, if you're not trying to procreate, feel you shouldn't be having sex at all.
Quote from: D-Dey65 on September 25, 2019, 06:38:02 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on September 25, 2019, 10:11:18 AM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on September 25, 2019, 08:12:02 AM
But one of the advantages of not being lucky enough to have kids is that you don't have to subject them to suffer under the repressive injustices of our school system life itself.
Fixed that for you.
Not really. As adults we have the right to fight back if somebody attacks us. Kids who face this in school are chastised for it, and lied to about "other ways of handling it."
I don't want to imply that violence is the answer, nor that I'm some sort of bad-ass, but getting into two fights (that I hadn't asked for) between 8th and 10th grade made sure nobody seriously or repeatedly picked on me again. In fact, at least we were on chit-chat terms - even laughing about it - after ceasing to annoy the crap out of each other. Also, it made us temporarily more popular in school than we'd ever expected...Nowadays, I'd probably be scared that I'd get shot or stabbed a few days later.
So I have some extremely mixed feelings about imparting that information to my son or daughter. I've at least told my son to tolerate some nuisances and don't be afraid to give a little back, but to avoid having to throw a fist at anyone. I had some experience tussling with my younger brother back in those days, because boys-will-be-boys, but I don't think I'd know how to deal with even the semblance of a real fight!
Quote from: D-Dey65 on September 25, 2019, 06:38:02 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on September 25, 2019, 10:11:18 AM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on September 25, 2019, 08:12:02 AM
But one of the advantages of not being lucky enough to have kids is that you don't have to subject them to suffer under the repressive injustices of our school system life itself.
Fixed that for you.
Not really. As adults we have the right to fight back if somebody attacks us. Kids who face this in school are chastised for it, and lied to about "other ways of handling it."
Injustice doesn't have to be directly dealt by a person.
When I was in grade school, I certainly felt weakened by the directive to not resort to fighting. Actually probably led me to have fights with my siblings since I felt suppressed when I was bullied at school.
Have to say that I taught my kids to fight back, no matter the consequences. If they throw the first punch, they'd find no ally in me at all, but once they're subject to physical bullying, I made it clear I had no problem defending them to the end if they had to defend themselves physically.
It's been my experience that far too many parents don't care if their children are bullies, and far too many school systems turn a blind eye to it because they don't want to be bothered.
When this happens, I'd love to see parents of bullied children file criminal charges (assault or terroristic threatening, whatever is appropriate) against the bullies. This forces the parents of the bully to possibly hire a lawyer, miss work to attend court proceedings, and so forth and so on, even if they're eventually found not guilty or not fined if there is a guilty verdict. When there is a real cost -- a financial cost -- to putting up with a bully, the parents will change their attitudes. Far too often, there's no true price to be paid.
Also, I'd put the bully on blast on social media. Too many parents are afraid to name names. Call them out. Let the community know who the bullies are and shame the bullies' parents into doing something about it.
I am married and have three sons. Well, technically, I also have a daughter from a previous relationship, but she was adopted by her step-father and I haven't seen her in about ten years.
Back before kids, was my life more free and less encumbered? Yes, of course it was. Before marriage, I could go somewhere at the drop of a hat, do whatever I wanted, only have to budget for myself, etc. After marriage but before kids, my wife and I went on more dates, often just went driving for the fun of it without knowing where we'd end up, hung out with friends more, etc.
But there's more to life than the freedom to do whatever you want whenever you want. Heck, just taking off work for more than a week gets to me, and I can't wait to get back into the routine of work. And plenty of people who have been laid off from work have a really hard time adjusting to all that free time. It isn't just that raising children is "worth it"–but rather that raising children is a level of human existence that, at least to many of us, is a plane above kid-less life. There's more to life than just living for yoursel(f)(ves). I believe it's in human nature to desire both marriage and children. Having kids satisfies something inside us in a way that mere freedom does not. Do my wife and I get tired, frustrated, wish we had more hours in the day? Yes, of course we feel that way sometimes. But are we happy with our life as parents? Yes, a hundred times yes! Raising a family is a challenge to tackle, it's fun, it gives us extra companionship, it allows us to pass along what we believe, it gives us a sense of ownership more than buying a house ever could, it occasionally causes us to rethink how we operate as a couple, it's rewarding as we see our sons learn and develop, it gives us unending topics of conversation with our friends and family, I could go on and on.
Now, all of that doesn't mean having kids is for everyone. My own sister is and always has been perfectly happy without having children. And, considering she's 45 years old and married to a man in his 70s, it's safe to say she'll never have any. She and her husband are very happy together. (I have noticed that, as my sister has gotten older over the years, she has more and more appreciated spending time with family and especially our children.) And she's certainly not the only person I've known who was content without children.
Others, however, have merely come to accept a childless life as an unfortunate fact of life, having long wanted a family to call their own but never having ended up with one. One member on here said that this thread isn't what's depressing: it's a parent who has no enthusiasm or desire for parenting. Well, I'll give you something more depressing than that: someone desperately wanting years to have children but not being able to.
It seems my post will be disappointingly short, but I think it's worth it that I speak my opinion.
Currently, I'm undecided. That's plain and simple.
On the one hand, having children is a back-breaking experience. They don't really mature until the age of 13 or so, and even then they still make foolish decisions until their early twenties. You also lose a lot of free time, and you have to be very dedicated to them. There's also the question of judgement, when deciding the correct scenarios of protecting them or not and how to raise them in general. Finally, there's the fact that you have to manage to be very intimate with a woman; personally, I'm not interested in dating until I wrap up college. This final factor doesn't concern me much.
On the other hand, there's a ton of positive emotions and stigma associated with children. From what I've heard, the occasions where they can exceed their parents far outweigh the effort and time exerted. They can also pick up a lot of good (and obviously, bad) habits from you. The point is, teaching children your own morals is a positive experience laden with misfortune and a real possibility that they could end up making some horrible decisions.
In 15 years, I'll likely revisit the topic and probably scoff at myself for having a naive point-of-view.
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 26, 2019, 05:57:57 PMThey don't really mature until the age of 13 or so...
...eh, more like 35; then peaking at 40.
Quote from: golden eagle on September 19, 2019, 09:03:46 PM
I'll be 45 in less than two months and never had children. At this point, what's the use in having them? People do ask me sometimes why I don't and/or if I do want children. If I had a kid now, I'll be on Social Security by the time he or she graduates. I've come up with another reason as to why I don't have children: I'm afraid they may be ugly!
Responding directly to the OP...
People don't have kids because they're "useful".
Quote from: kphoger on September 27, 2019, 02:02:58 PM
Quote from: golden eagle on September 19, 2019, 09:03:46 PM
I'll be 45 in less than two months and never had children. At this point, what's the use in having them? People do ask me sometimes why I don't and/or if I do want children. If I had a kid now, I'll be on Social Security by the time he or she graduates. I've come up with another reason as to why I don't have children: I'm afraid they may be ugly!
Responding directly to the OP...
People don't have kids because they're "useful".
Unless they're farmers.
Quote from: Rothman on September 27, 2019, 02:39:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 27, 2019, 02:02:58 PM
Quote from: golden eagle on September 19, 2019, 09:03:46 PM
I'll be 45 in less than two months and never had children. At this point, what's the use in having them? People do ask me sometimes why I don't and/or if I do want children. If I had a kid now, I'll be on Social Security by the time he or she graduates. I've come up with another reason as to why I don't have children: I'm afraid they may be ugly!
Responding directly to the OP...
People don't have kids because they're "useful".
Unless they're farmers.
I grew up in farm country. Farmers don't have children because they're "useful" either.
Quote from: kphoger on September 27, 2019, 02:56:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 27, 2019, 02:39:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 27, 2019, 02:02:58 PM
Quote from: golden eagle on September 19, 2019, 09:03:46 PM
I'll be 45 in less than two months and never had children. At this point, what's the use in having them? People do ask me sometimes why I don't and/or if I do want children. If I had a kid now, I'll be on Social Security by the time he or she graduates. I've come up with another reason as to why I don't have children: I'm afraid they may be ugly!
Not now, but at one time it was common practice.
Responding directly to the OP...
People don't have kids because they're "useful".
Unless they're farmers.
I grew up in farm country. Farmers don't have children because they're "useful" either.
Not sure what happened here. My reply is missing and only my quote showed up. What I meant to say was that at one time, farmers did have lots of kids so they could help on the farm. This was an old-time tradition, though. It even happened in Kentucky on some of the larger tobacco farms back in the day.
Quote from: kphoger on September 27, 2019, 02:02:58 PM
Quote from: golden eagle on September 19, 2019, 09:03:46 PM
I'll be 45 in less than two months and never had children. At this point, what's the use in having them? People do ask me sometimes why I don't and/or if I do want children. If I had a kid now, I'll be on Social Security by the time he or she graduates. I've come up with another reason as to why I don't have children: I'm afraid they may be ugly!
Responding directly to the OP...
People don't have kids because they're "useful".
I've known a (very few) who see additional kids as "more food stamps", though I've never understood that logic
Quote from: kphoger on September 27, 2019, 02:56:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 27, 2019, 02:39:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 27, 2019, 02:02:58 PM
Quote from: golden eagle on September 19, 2019, 09:03:46 PM
I'll be 45 in less than two months and never had children. At this point, what's the use in having them? People do ask me sometimes why I don't and/or if I do want children. If I had a kid now, I'll be on Social Security by the time he or she graduates. I've come up with another reason as to why I don't have children: I'm afraid they may be ugly!
Responding directly to the OP...
People don't have kids because they're "useful".
Unless they're farmers.
I grew up in farm country. Farmers don't have children because they're "useful" either.
As did I. I have multiple friends from large farmer families. My grandmother was the 17th kid in her family and she thought it was normal since the farmers nearby had 18 (my grandmother's siblings would grow to 23 altogether as her father remarried after her mother's death). Getting help on the farm may not have been the main motivator for large families. but it was one nonetheless.
Heck, there is one family I know in northeastern Wyoming whose large farm was enabled as each of the kids went into a needed profession. Now that was what I called family planning!
Quote from: kphoger on September 26, 2019, 04:07:15 PM
One member on here said that this thread isn't what's depressing: it's a parent who has no enthusiasm or desire for parenting. Well, I'll give you something more depressing than that: someone desperately wanting years to have children but not being able to.
Thank you!
It is, in fact, depressing that no one acknowledged this sooner, but encouraging that you at least mentioned it now!
Quote from: Rothman on September 28, 2019, 10:12:18 AM
Quote from: kphoger on September 27, 2019, 02:56:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 27, 2019, 02:39:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 27, 2019, 02:02:58 PM
Quote from: golden eagle on September 19, 2019, 09:03:46 PM
I'll be 45 in less than two months and never had children. At this point, what's the use in having them? People do ask me sometimes why I don't and/or if I do want children. If I had a kid now, I'll be on Social Security by the time he or she graduates. I've come up with another reason as to why I don't have children: I'm afraid they may be ugly!
Responding directly to the OP...
People don't have kids because they're "useful".
Unless they're farmers.
I grew up in farm country. Farmers don't have children because they're "useful" either.
As did I. I have multiple friends from large farmer families. My grandmother was the 17th kid in her family and she thought it was normal since the farmers nearby had 18 (my grandmother's siblings would grow to 23 altogether as her father remarried after her mother's death). Getting help on the farm may not have been the main motivator for large families. but it was one nonetheless.
Heck, there is one family I know in northeastern Wyoming whose large farm was enabled as each of the kids went into a needed profession. Now that was what I called family planning!
It was definitely a motivator for my cousin's in Minnesota. All nine of them were essentially free farm labor until they hit 18 or left the house finally. Their parents would outright tell them that was one of the big reasons they wanted kids too which usually came when there was some sort of complaint about work during the summer.
Quote from: Brian556 on September 22, 2019, 01:00:33 AM
Then there the sex issue. All women would want you to fuck them on a regular basis.
Got some locations and pictures of some of these women?
:colorful: :)
Quote from: D-Dey65 on September 30, 2019, 11:18:34 PM
Quote from: Brian556 on September 22, 2019, 01:00:33 AM
Then there the sex issue. All women would want you to fuck them on a regular basis.
Got some locations and pictures of some of these women?
:colorful: :)
I know a couple ladies on Fakebook that are that way, but they are rather choosy.
Quote from: US71 on September 25, 2019, 07:07:03 PM
My favorite line is the teacher who responds "what did you do to provoke the attack?"
You know, people who use that line on women who get raped tend to get a huge backlash, especially from feminist groups. But kids who are bullied? Evidently schools think it's alright to blame the victims!
Quote from: D-Dey65 on October 14, 2019, 12:29:54 PM
Quote from: US71 on September 25, 2019, 07:07:03 PM
My favorite line is the teacher who responds "what did you do to provoke the attack?"
You know, people who use that line on women who get raped tend to get a hugs backlash, especially from feminist groups. But kids who are bullied? Evidently schools think it's alright to blame the victims!
Always been that way.