For those of you who don’t have (or want) children

[formulanone]

There's tremendous social pressure to have kids. Anyone who gets up into their 40s or beyond who doesn't have kids is invariably asked, "why not?" I've heard the question a zillion times.

I think it depends a lot on one's family and surroundings.

I have a few relatives a generation before me who never had kids; some married, some not. So there really wasn't much pressure for either one of us, although my wife was the eldest amongst all of her family's cousins her age. On the other hand, I wasn't the oldest in my family's generation, so I never heard anything about settling down and having kids (one of the most under-rated oxymoronic terms). Societally, women are likely to hear more pressure about it because it's a transcendent threshold for life itself to occur.

Of course, people have all sorts of thoughts because there's all sorts of traditions that are slowly changing; but of course, they haven't. And I suppose it's because people want to talk about common interests, kids or no kids. The underlying reasons behind them weren't based on anything more concrete than needing more farmhands, hunters, gathers, or heirs. Later, we could trace it to a biological level that's not well understood, except maybe to scare off large predators which don't ravage us and our food supply as much as prehistoric times.

I'll step forward and say that at certain times it's tougher to hear about (though not impossible) to relate to people who don't have kids. And likewise, those without kids don't really want to hear stories about what's the right infant formula, does your little tike put things in its mouth, toilet training talk are pretty much out of the question, and hearing about the neat things they've discovered isn't going to be interesting to you. But it's no more so than hearing about a 20-something's adventures with dating and getting plastered last night, or how older folks just aren't interested in anything anymore. Likewise, age gaps, income gaps, and cultural differences are not so easy to bridge.

I get it, since I was the same way until I had kids after the age of 30. There's times my wife and I get away for a weekend, and wonder what might have been if we'd not had children. And that's an unanswerable question, I suppose; it's impossible to look at the photos of our kids and look back.

tl;dr People are free to do what they like with their lives. There's not a huge need to repopulate the planet, although I seriously can't understand how you'd like to be totally outnumbered by your progeny...it's different to everyone, naturally.

Those who chose not to have kids don't owe anyone an explanation.

True freedom is not having to explain yourself.

[Max Rockatansky]

There's tremendous social pressure to have kids. Anyone who gets up into their 40s or beyond who doesn't have kids is invariably asked, "why not?" I've heard the question a zillion times.

Those who chose not to have kids don't owe anyone an explanation.

The worst ones are parents who think they're entitled to grandchildren.

On occasion I get bothered by family about having kids.  My Dad and Grandpa in particular were really big on having a "male heir"  to carry on family name.  Considering my siblings have two kids each I found that somewhat amusing at best and intrusive at worst that they held that opinion.  Either way the so called "family name"  was changed from what it was in England so I don't see brand equity like they did.  My wife gets way more pressure from her family for kids since her family traditionally has a lot of them and there is some cultural expectations there also. 

[hbelkins]

My mother was an only child.

My dad had two older sisters and two younger brothers. My grandmother has six grandchildren who survived infancy; four girls (three of whom have kids) and two boys (my brother and me). My brother and I are both married but neigther of us has any kids. So my grandfather's legacy of someone carrying on the Elkins name here will end, but there are plenty of other Elkinses around the Huntington, WV area that are related to a common ancestor a few generations back to keep the name going.

[SoCal Kid]

I can see why one wouldnt want children. You need to pay for health, education (unless you do public schools, which then you still might pay if your kid is interested in like Band or something), and some tourist attractions pay extra for kids. Also taking care of young kids is annoying as hell, I can tell. And when your kid is able to drive, driver insurance will explode...

[vdeane]

But again, it is not for everyone. I think, once society progressed passed "survival mode" (i.e., the infant mortality rate dropped to a point where it wasn't necessary to have five children to make sure three made it to adulthood), we should have also evolved socially to where not having children was an acceptable, mainstream decision. But we didn't, and I think the "Greatest Generation," spooked by war and depression, had more children than they needed OR wanted (the Baby Boom), and a cycle of bad or neglectful parenting began that has reverberated through subsequent generations.

That would certainly explain a lot about society.

And when your kid is able to drive, driver insurance will explode...

There are ways to mitigate that.  Between driver's ed, a safety program offered by State Farm, and a 4.0 GPA through High School and college, adding me to the family insurance policy wasn't much different than adding another adult driver.

[Big John]

Being on the spectrum makes the thought of dating anyone, much less having children, a very foreign concept.  I would not have the fortitude of raising a cgild if I did ever have one.

[Beltway]

I have a friend who had his first child at the age of 46 and now at the age of 51 is the father of 3.  I don't think that he or his wife (who is 4 or 5 years younger) wanted kids and I think the first one was an "oops" but then they discovered that they liked being parents. 

She had 3 children after the age of 41?

[adventurernumber1]

I think that deep down I want kids, but realistically it'll likely be a long time before that happens, if it ever does. I'm taking life very slowly right now, and I will probably graduate college later than normal, as I am taking three classes per semester (as I have learned it is personally impossible to sustainably and successfully take any more than that at one time). I'm not actively pursuing a relationship at the moment (although I'd be open if the opportunity happened to come along), therefore I don't see myself getting married anytime soon. So with all that said, I wouldn't be surprised if I ended up having kids in my 40's. It's never too late to have kids. I am on the spectrum, so as noted, that may present some challenges with things such as my social interaction and reading emotions and etc. I don't think I'm ready for kids yet, but time will tell what the future has in store for me.

[Max Rockatansky]

My mother was an only child.

My dad had two older sisters and two younger brothers. My grandmother has six grandchildren who survived infancy; four girls (three of whom have kids) and two boys (my brother and me). My brother and I are both married but neigther of us has any kids. So my grandfather's legacy of someone carrying on the Elkins name here will end, but there are plenty of other Elkinses around the Huntington, WV area that are related to a common ancestor a few generations back to keep the name going.

I got the same thing going with lots of loosely associated family sharing the same name in Maryland and West Virginia.  My Uncle never had kids and my sister was the one who had a boy.  I doubt my brother is interested in having a third kid this far into his 40s.   Either way it's just a last name, really that isn't anything all that important in grand scheme of things. 

[roadman65]

As recently being diagnosed with ADHD and some Aspergers (yes I now have a primary care that cares) and having it pointed out that I inherited it from my mom, whom her and I had a rocky relationship for obvious reasons.   Plus I never had it diagnosed as a child nor was it to my mom as when she grew up no one heard of these things then.

So after the rocky relationship I had with her, I do not want to repeat that with children of my own as well as past interactions caused me bad relationships with women as well as slowing me down from interaction with them in general as both ADHD and Aspergers both effect focus and concentrating and causes those suffering from them to miss cues from others or give out wrong cues and most of all not see the other individual for whom he or she really are do to the lack of focus blocks you from having depth and seeing that factor in others.

I do not want to lack focus around a child lacking focus and argue about things we agree on as neither of us will get each others point like mom and I.  True, I am on meds now and able to learn more about how to perceive others, but I am in my mid 50's and think that too would add to having one to raise as well.

[74/171FAN]

I think that deep down I want kids, but realistically it'll likely be a long time before that happens, if it ever does. I'm taking life very slowly right now, and I will probably graduate college later than normal, as I am taking three classes per semester (as I have learned it is personally impossible to sustainably and successfully take any more than that at one time). I'm not actively pursuing a relationship at the moment (although I'd be open if the opportunity happened to come along), therefore I don't see myself getting married anytime soon. So with all that said, I wouldn't be surprised if I ended up having kids in my 40's. It's never too late to have kids. I am on the spectrum, so as noted, that may present some challenges with things such as my social interaction and reading emotions and etc. I don't think I'm ready for kids yet, but time will tell what the future has in store for me.

I am very similar to you on this.  I think the biggest thing to remember is that the social pressure to be in a relationship, get married, and have children is just that.  None of us are less of a person for not having these things.  Yes, I am very much talking to myself as I type this because I have struggled with my desire to be married and have children for many years even though I have always been single and have never gone on a date with a woman as of today.

[Rothman]

Although there is definitely social pressure, social pressure can't be the only motivation for getting into relationships.  Marriage is definitely a social construct, but relationships can certainly be motivated by sexual attraction or even just a desire for companionship or wanting to abate feelings of loneliness.

[Brian556]

Excellent topic, and all of your responses remind me that you guys are the only people in the world that I can relate to.

I never really had a desire to be social. I t doesn't come naturally to me. I don't like that it requires so much effort and doing things you don't like or in some cases don't agree with, such as consuming alcohol.

I some ways I wouldn't mind a relationship, but the negatives far outweigh the positives. Many women are bitches, and will turn on you for no reason. My mother wasn't the nicest person to me growing up, and my father remarried a woman who was a horrible selfish bitch. She pretended to be a decent person, and only showed her real self after they got married. Seeing this, and all the other boomers that treated each other like crap make me afraid of women, and made me want to avoid relationships at all costs.

Then there the sex issue. All women would want you to fuck them on a regular basis. That would be a problem for me, because that aspect of human sexuality makes no sense to me. I don't understand for the life of me why people have sex when they are not trying to get pregnant. It is totally illogical. And don't get me started on oral...that's just plain nasty.

I actually think I could be a much better parent than most people, because I am smart enough to teach a kid what they really need to know.

The school system is complete garbage, and I would never want a kid to have to deal with it. Excessive homework, and a lot of the material taught is completely useless, and is just a time filler to avoid teaching kids how to be successful in life. I feel that the wealthy elites intentionally set it up this way so the poor kids wont be completion for their kids. All the algebra is totally unnecessary, and is a stumbling block that prevents otherwise capable kids form passing.

I am smart enough to realize what an unpleasant place this word is, and would not want to have kids deal with it. I mean think about it...you work 5 days and get two off...that makes for a miserable life.

Something that you guys didn't mention that really annoys me is that the entire system is designed around and for people with kids. There are no houses for single people. Breeders rip off non-breeders by making them pay for their kids schooling via property taxes.

[renegade]

There's another thread around here somewhere named "toilet enthusiasts."

This is why I don't want children.

Having said that, who wants mine?   

[Rothman]

Brian's comment about alcohol is a head-scratcher.  I have never had a friendship that has required me to drink alcohol.  Gone to bars with friends and drank my Sprite as they drank whatever, but I've never felt forced to drink alcohol.

In terms of getting "ripped off," I am sure paying property taxes and having kids in school is better than the alternative of having kids running around you all the time.

[Scott5114]

I never really had a desire to be social. I t doesn't come naturally to me. I don't like that it requires so much effort and doing things you don't like or in some cases don't agree with, such as consuming alcohol.

This means that you haven't found the right people to be social with. Sitting in bars drinking is a default activity that people who don't have anything more interesting to do at the moment do. My social activities involve playing games with a group of three other people. Some people play sports as their social activity, others play music, and so on. Find someone that wants to do something with you that you want to do. Hell, roadmeets prove that even roadgeeking can be a fun social activity, if you can find someone that lives nearby who will go with you.

I some ways I wouldn't mind a relationship, but the negatives far outweigh the positives. Many women are bitches, and will turn on you for no reason. My mother wasn't the nicest person to me growing up, and my father remarried a woman who was a horrible selfish bitch. She pretended to be a decent person, and only showed her real self after they got married. Seeing this, and all the other boomers that treated each other like crap make me afraid of women, and made me want to avoid relationships at all costs.

The proportion of shitty women is exactly the same as the proportion of shitty men. You just aren't looking for the shitty men because you aren't interested in dating them.

Solution: if a woman is shitty, dump her and find one that isn't shitty.

Then there the sex issue. All women would want you to fuck them on a regular basis. That would be a problem for me, because that aspect of human sexuality makes no sense to me. I don't understand for the life of me why people have sex when they are not trying to get pregnant. It is totally illogical. And don't get me started on oral...that's just plain nasty.

If you ever do it, you may understand why people enjoy the activity. Otherwise, you may simply identify as asexual and not know it yet. Probably something you need to do some research on and come to a personal conclusion on.

Breeders rip off non-breeders by making them pay for their kids schooling via property taxes.

I prefer to think of this as a tax that I pay for the city to prevent the development of stupid people in my area. Well worth it, in my opinion.

[74/171FAN]

Although there is definitely social pressure, social pressure can't be the only motivation for getting into relationships.  Marriage is definitely a social construct, but relationships can certainly be motivated by sexual attraction or even just a desire for companionship or wanting to abate feelings of loneliness.

Agreed.  While companionship and loneliness play a part in it for me, social pressure by far has been the biggest issue for me personally.  The thought of letting others down for being single led to very poor treatment of myself for many years that I am just starting to move forward past.

[csw]

The world needs more people like Scott.

[formulanone]

Look at it this way, it's a bit tougher for us married-with-kids to just get up and drive on a cross-country trip. I mean, we could plan it, but it takes more time and patience. Or that my weekends for my wife and kids, so roadmeets just aren't on the menu with all the other things that go on. I don't ask anyone to give me much solace in that department; after all, those are the choices I've made, and because none of you are held responsible for my decisions.

Something that you guys didn't mention that really annoys me is that the entire system is designed around and for people with kids.

This I'll agree with; our economy is kind of rigged towards rewarding marriage through taxes, and real estate ownership for middle and lower classes is much easier on two incomes. The theory is that married folks contribute to the economy "better" this way. I'm not saying that's a reason to get married and/or have kids (if so, those are probably the worst reasons for either situation), but that's how it is...it creates a bit of long-term perpetuity in our economy.

There are no houses for single people.

Well, smaller homes are an answer. After all, the larger house means a longer walk to the refrigerator, and more to maintain.

Want something more? Work Harder and/or Smarter is the mantra, then.

Breeders rip off non-breeders by making them pay for their kids schooling via property taxes.

If you're implying that we sell our children off like plants or animals, then that underlined word makes sense. Otherwise, keep that disgusting term to yourself.

In a nutshell: Schools keep the kids off the streets, makes them able to take on jobs, and guess what...you were a kid too, once. Pay up sucker!

[index]

Then there the sex issue. All women would want you to fuck them on a regular basis. That would be a problem for me, because that aspect of human sexuality makes no sense to me. I don't understand for the life of me why people have sex when they are not trying to get pregnant. It is totally illogical. And don't get me started on oral...that's just plain nasty.

If you ever do it, you may understand why people enjoy the activity. Otherwise, you may simply identify as asexual and not know it yet. Probably something you need to do some research on and come to a personal conclusion on.

As someone who does consider myself to be on the asexuality spectrum this is definitely worth looking into. I felt similar feelings for the longest time and I thought I was just weird or a "late bloomer" about that kind of stuff because I never experienced any desire for it, nor any significant attraction to any sex, absolutely none for the opposite and only a vague amount for the same. I'd then heard about asexuality and it seemed to fit my bill perfectly. Now I feel pretty content describing myself as that. There's way more to it for me but that's the broadest label I can describe myself with.

[hbelkins]

Breeders rip off non-breeders by making them pay for their kids schooling via property taxes.

If you're implying that we sell our children off like plants or animals, then that underlined word makes sense. Otherwise, keep that disgusting term to yourself.

Glad I was not the only one who was bothered by the use of that term, although I have to admit it's the first time I have ever seen it used in such a derogatory fashion by someone who is straight. It's typically a term of derision used by homosexual persons about heterosexual persons with children. Or at least that's the only context in which I've seen it used, and I've seen it used there plenty.

I've got news for you: If your parents weren't "breeders," you wouldn't be here.

[index]

Breeders rip off non-breeders by making them pay for their kids schooling via property taxes.

If you're implying that we sell our children off like plants or animals, then that underlined word makes sense. Otherwise, keep that disgusting term to yourself.

Glad I was not the only one who was bothered by the use of that term, although I have to admit it's the first time I have ever seen it used in such a derogatory fashion by someone who is straight. It's typically a term of derision used by homosexual persons about heterosexual persons with children. Or at least that's the only context in which I've seen it used, and I've seen it used there plenty.

I've got news for you: If your parents weren't "breeders," you wouldn't be here.

I've never seen the term used in regard to sexuality at all, and I know whole mounds of people who consider themselves to be LGBT, but there is a small sect of folks I've interacted with called "antinatalists" who believe creating human life is unethical. They use the term a lot. They're generally not a very happy bunch. I totally can't imagine why.

[NE2]

Abortion's an ortion.

[index]

Abortion's an ortion.

So is hanging

So is the plague. We need another one, there's way too many people 

[plain]

So much going on in this thread (in a good way, I enjoyed reading the responses).

I only have a son and he's an adult now so I'm on cruise control at this point. I used to want a daughter too just so I can say I have one of each but couldn't find a woman I was actually willing to knock up. By the time I reached my 30's I was like fuck that lmao.

At this point I only bother to date women 40 and up whose kids are already grown or are almost there... I have no patience for little kids anymore, especially nowadays where most of them is bad as hell, spoiled as hell and being raised by the internet.