Atlanta's coming HOT lanes

[SSF]

I was on that stretch of I-85 today.  The HOT lane was totally empty for the 10 miles I was on the road.  Not surprising, since many people (including me) have yet to get a Peach Pass, plus the fact that there was no congestion in the general purpose lanes.  Who wants to pay toll when there is no time savings?

No one should want to, that's the point?

[RoadWarrior56]

Three weekdays in, the initial verdict of the new HOT lanes on rush hours is not very good.  True, we are still in the break-in period, and more people having Peach Passes over time will help the situation. 

I use a 4-mile stretch of I-85 at 6:15 in the morning on the way to work.  I am normally on the road before there is any congestion on this stretch of roadway.  This week, the traffic is stop and go as early as 6 a.m., and the traffic ripples are being felt on facilities that feed into I-85, like SR 316.  In fact, I started taking surface streets into work this morning.  I don't need this aggrivation.

I think what is happening is that the HOT lanes are so under-utilizied compared with the old HOV-2 lanes that it is congesting the remaining general purpose lanes earlier than they otherwise would.  True, more Peach Passes will help the situation some, but I think a bigger issue is that the mimimum toll for when I-85 is not congested is set too high.  The minimum toll is 9 cents per miles.  That is nearly a $2.00 trip for the HOT lanes entire trip when the adjacent lanes are still flowing freely.  I think that will be a disincentive for traffic to use that lane at all during non-peak times, and that will congest the general purpose lanes that much earlier. 

I would lower the minimum toll to no more than 4 cents per mile, trying to induce a similar amount of traffic to use the HOT lanes during non-peak hours as was using the HOV lanes.  From that point let the toll rise to maintain the ride in the lane as high as it needs to as the rest of I-85 gets more congested as it gets deeper into the peak period.

One more thing, as traffic along the I-85 corridor has been screwed up this week due to the new HOT lanes, Georgia DOT and the State Toll Authority have been releasing statements about how big a success the HOT lanes are.  If conditions don't improve quickly, I don't see this helping the T-SPLOST getting passed next year.

[RoadWarrior56]

My above rant was one day ahead of this issue exploding in the local press.  The Governor has even weighed in.  And now they are talking about lower tolls.  I have attached an AJC article.

http://www.ajc.com/news/gwinnett/gov-deal-lowers-hot-1195930.html

[codyg1985]

"It doesn't affect the range of potential rates," press secretary Stephanie Mayfield said in an email. Tolls currently range from 10 to 90 cents per mile, depending on the level of congestion.

So it is still going to cost $1.50 for the entire segment if there is no congestion?

[RoadWarrior56]

Good question.  If they just lower the maximum toll, that kind of defeats the purpose of the HOT lane in the first place.  It was just my opinion that the lowest toll rate is a disincentive for use of the lane for the majority of the day, which could actually cause overall congestion to begin sooner than otherwise.  I think the article implied that the algorhythm was being changed to affect how the toll increased.

I think the other issue that was not discussed in the article is that as of last weekend only 73,000 people even have Peach Passes.  The universe of people who can even legally drive the lane at this time is miniscule.  I think the best thing that could be done is to help the situation in the short term is to virtually give the Peach Passes away to get the numbers up, and make it easier for motorists to get them.  Maybe set up at nearby malls to sign people up in person.

[SSF]

what a shocker, GDOT/SRTA fouled up.  it was great hearing Gena on WSB again though, i miss her monthly scandals when she was commish of the DOT.

it sounded to me that there were just going to be minor tweaks during the busy times, like instead of it being .70 cents a mile, it might be .55 or .6.  there was also something said in the AJC about the tolling algorithms being re-done.

[RoadWarrior56]

The evening rush on northbound I-85 was so bad today that the spillover extended on I-285 past 400 (8+ miles west), which in turn backed up GA 400.  I realize that Friday afternoon traffic is legendarily bad under normal conditions, but today took an award.  I thank the lord that I use surface streets to get home!!!!

[lkjljlkj]

I finally gave them a try, & I'm wondering if the detection is like at GA-400, where it has always seemed to be based on mass.  I've been thru the 400 tollbooth at least a 100 times over the years on my motorcycle, & I can count on one hand the times my transponder's been activated and I'd still have fingers left.  They don't even deduct the $0.50 on 400 based on a visual, so the camera obviously is never getting triggered to snap.  It's like I'm a ghost. 

Anyway, I went both north & south, and neither trip showed up on the Peach Pass website.  I am curious as to whether or not it's motion-based and the SRTA will get images of me as a violator.

The road was pretty busy this afternoon, & I cannot imagine crossing all those lanes to get to or from the right side.  I also couldn't help but wonder what those merges are like... if someone's doing 75 in the HOT lane & needs to exit into traffic doing less than half that or possibly even stop-and-go??  I'd like to see what's happening there.

[barcncpt44]

I found this article that shows the steps to slow the media's rush to judgement of the HOT lanes.  Just crazy.
http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/5596

[cpzilliacus]

TOLLROADSnews: GA/I-85 toll express lanes doing better, but tolls low

The Georgia I-85 toll express lanes (GA85XL) now in their eighth week of operation continue to attract more patronage, but tolls while growing, are still low per mile.  We've worked on seven full weeks of data. Average weekday traffic in the variably priced lanes is now 11,210 vs 4,170 in the first week.

[RoadWarrior56]

There are more people using the lanes during the peak hours, as the congestion is now similar to what it was before the addition of the toll lanes.  I am back to using I-85 early in the morning again.  However, during weekends and non-peak hours, there is still virtually NOBODY in the toll lanes.  I still think the toll is too high during those hours.

[UptownRoadGeek]

Why is this big deal/controversy in Atlanta, when people in most other city get along just fine with HOT lanes. I've never seen a similar project get as much media attention and opposition anywhere else.

[codyg1985]

How are HOT lanes set up in other areas, specifically with access to exits? If the lanes don't have dedicated exits then they are useless unless you are going along the entire length of the toll lanes

[Bryant5493]

Why is this big deal/controversy in Atlanta, when people in most other city get along just fine with HOT lanes. I've never seen a similar project get as much media attention and opposition anywhere else.

The big reason is that the lanes were always free. Additionally, they're charging for lanes that weren't improved: no left lane exits and weaving can still be an issue.


Be well,

Bryant

[UptownRoadGeek]

How are HOT lanes set up in other areas, specifically with access to exits? If the lanes don't have dedicated exits then they are useless unless you are going along the entire length of the toll lanes

The big reason is that the lanes were always free. Additionally, they're charging for lanes that weren't improved: no left lane exits and weaving can still be an issue.


Be well,

Bryant

Basically the same way. In Miami the existing HOV lanes where converted to HOT lanes and the Katy Freeway in Houston has some dedicated exits, but the majority of it has designated dash lined areas where you can merge into regular traffic. Same setup in Salt Lake City. Neither of these cities had anywhere near the amount of opposition that was seen in Atlanta. Reading the coverage of the I-85 lanes, you'd think that this was the first time something like this has ever been done. What's the point in even entering the HOV lane if you're going get right back out of it or get off at the next exit? Isn't the HOV lane supposed to serve commuters who are headed to the same destination as the bulk of the traffic. Actually now that I think about, Atlanta is the only place that I know of where people can freely move in and out of the HOV lanes whenever they want for long stretches. Oh yeah, Memphis where the HOV lanes magically disappear once you get inside the loop.

[Brandon]

Why is this big deal/controversy in Atlanta, when people in most other city get along just fine with HOT lanes. I've never seen a similar project get as much media attention and opposition anywhere else.

So-called "green lanes" were suggested here in Chicagoland by a former governor who is on his way to jail.  The idea caused controversy and was quietly dropped.  There's not much need for HOT or HOV lanes in Chicagoland due to the excellent rail system we have already in place.  Why take from the roads when you can add cars to a train?

[cpzilliacus]

The discussion here has been mostly about the I-85 HOV/Toll lanes, but now it seems that the state has changed its mind about funding construction of reversible Toll lanes through a public-private partnership concession (I am not sure if the intent was for those to be operated as HOV/Toll lanes or just express toll lanes [that's the Maryland term for them]) in the I-75/I-575 corridor.

Ga. DOT press release: Statement Regarding Cancellation of West by Northwest P3 Procurement (.pdf)

AJC: DOT pulls plug on $1 billion I-75/I-575 project

TOLLROADSnews: Georgia shocks investor groups with abrupt cancellation of procurement for toll lanes concession on GA/I-75&575

[1995hoo]

The discussion here has been mostly about the I-85 HOV/Toll lanes, but now it seems that the state has changed its mind about funding construction of reversible Toll lanes through a public-private partnership concession (I am not sure if the intent was for those to be operated as HOV/Toll lanes or just express toll lanes [that's the Maryland term for them]) in the I-75/I-575 corridor.

....

Maryland uses the "express toll lanes" terminology because the lanes they're building northeast of Baltimore will not have the HOV-rides-free exemption (I guess you could say they lack the "HO," although some people would argue that "express toll lanes" are inherently like a certain type of "ho"). Anyone willing to pay the current toll rate will be free to use them unless there is some other reason why a vehicle cannot enter those lanes.

[Grzrd]

I-85 HOT lane toll drops to 1 cent minimum per mile at off-peak times:

The rate will go as low as 1 cent per mile from 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. and after 8 p.m. on weekdays and during weekends. That's down from a floor of 10 cents per mile.

Also, here's a video report about the beginning of HOT lane fines:

Drivers now using the I-85 HOT lanes without a Peach Pass may open their mailbox to an unwanted gift in the coming weeks: a $25 ticket .... Officers with the state Department of Public Safety also will be on the lookout for drivers using the lanes toll free without the required number of occupants. Fines for those violations start at $75 plus court costs, according to DPS spokesman Sgt. Tony Pilcher.

[Eth]

I-85 HOT lane toll drops to 1 cent minimum per mile at off-peak times:

The rate will go as low as 1 cent per mile from 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. and after 8 p.m. on weekdays and during weekends. That's down from a floor of 10 cents per mile.

I saw this in action on a trip up to Gwinnett over the weekend.  It's rather amusing to see $0.02 as an advertised toll.

[cpzilliacus]

AJC: Toll project spurs nagging questions

Reason's Out of Control, responding to above: Missing Forest Through the Peach Trees on Atlanta Toll Lanes

[Anthony_JK]

AJC: Toll project spurs nagging questions

Reason's Out of Control, responding to above: Missing Forest Through the Peach Trees on Atlanta Toll Lanes

Naturally, Reason's solution is to simply toll every freeway in sight using congestion pricing, and drive those who can't afford it into the surface streets. Gee, that'll work out well.

The best solution remains the best solution, IMO: end this nonsense that we can't fund transportation through gas taxes and public revenue...and then index the gas tax to inflation and use other ideas (such as an oil import fee) to fund real transportation projects. Save the tolls for the periphery projects.


Anthony

[Henry]

1) First, why did they replace all the cobra head highway lighting with those short spotlights years ago? I used to love the line of lights hugging every hill guiding us into Atlanta. Don't like the new lights halfway up the old poles.

I'm pretty sure that happened last decade...I don't like it either.

I hate them too! Virginia has way too many of these, especially on I-66 and I-95. I would've preferred high-mast lighting in the median...it looks far better than those abominations that are there now.

[cpzilliacus]

AJC: Toll project spurs nagging questions

Reason's Out of Control, responding to above: Missing Forest Through the Peach Trees on Atlanta Toll Lanes

Naturally, Reason's solution is to simply toll every freeway in sight using congestion pricing, and drive those who can't afford it into the surface streets. Gee, that'll work out well.

What is wrong with congestion pricing?  It seems to have worked reasonably well on the express lanes along Ca. 91 (Riverside Freeway) and I-15 (Escondido Freeway).

The best solution remains the best solution, IMO: end this nonsense that we can't fund transportation through gas taxes and public revenue...and then index the gas tax to inflation and use other ideas (such as an oil import fee) to fund real transportation projects. Save the tolls for the periphery projects.


Anthony

Many are opposed to motor fuel taxes because there is overwhelming pressure to divert the revenues to projects that don't benefit the people and companies paying the tolls. 

Note well that I understand that that toll revenues can be (and often are) diverted to non-highway projects, this seems to be especially common in the East, with states like Md., Va., N.Y., N.J. and Penna. all diverting (or having diverted) toll revenues to various kinds of transit subsidies.

[cpzilliacus]

TOLLROADSnews: GA/I-85 toll lanes lookin' peachier - strong growth in traffic at 6th month

Georgia's I-85 Express Lanes in their sixth month of operation continue to show strong growth in traffic with a stable average toll rate of around $1.20/trip. In March weekday trips averaged 16.8 thousand (k) 2.3 times the 7.3k in October last year, the first full month of operations of the high occupancy/toll lane.