Are whiz-bang features in cars/trucks to blame for high new vehicle prices?

Started by RobbieL2415, November 01, 2019, 05:21:21 PM

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jeffandnicole

Quote from: kalvado on November 04, 2019, 07:34:01 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 04, 2019, 07:13:29 AM
Quote from: US71 on November 03, 2019, 10:49:53 PM
Then you have the Ford Pinto where a few safety features were skimped on to make the car more "affordable".


Somehow I think non-exploding gas tanks is a feature even the cheapest of consumers would want. But then again I think it's hard to for people to truly fathom that there was some really hardcore penny pinchers in the 70s and 80s (and how common those types were) who would intentionally not get cars with safety features just to save a buck.
I heard of a 80 year old gentlemen, who explicitly refused to get LED light bulbs as those would most likely outlast him. A pretty good point, if you ask me.

Wow he has a point, there are quite a number of people that don't buy LED lights simply because of their price. Yes the prices are coming down, but when you can get regular light bulbs for basically less than fifty cents each, people are going to stick with them until they're no longer on the shelves, no matter the person's age.


kalvado

As for safety features..
generally, people tend to value safety features as if their life has a pretty finite cost, a few million dollars. I assume that should go down with age as the quality of life decays and remaining life expectancy reduces.
very roughly speaking, 1 out of 10 000 people is US dies in car crashes a year, and let's say car lasts for 10 years - so roughly speaking chances of any particular car to end up ina fatal accident is 1 in 1000. With that, it makes sense for most people to pay an extra few grand for safety features which significantly improve survival or reduce injury as it fits general cost-efficiency numbers.

US71

Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 04, 2019, 09:15:03 AM
Quote from: kalvado on November 04, 2019, 07:34:01 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 04, 2019, 07:13:29 AM
Quote from: US71 on November 03, 2019, 10:49:53 PM
Then you have the Ford Pinto where a few safety features were skimped on to make the car more "affordable".


Somehow I think non-exploding gas tanks is a feature even the cheapest of consumers would want. But then again I think it's hard to for people to truly fathom that there was some really hardcore penny pinchers in the 70s and 80s (and how common those types were) who would intentionally not get cars with safety features just to save a buck.
I heard of a 80 year old gentlemen, who explicitly refused to get LED light bulbs as those would most likely outlast him. A pretty good point, if you ask me.

Wow he has a point, there are quite a number of people that don't buy LED lights simply because of their price. Yes the prices are coming down, but when you can get regular light bulbs for basically less than fifty cents each, people are going to stick with them until they're no longer on the shelves, no matter the person's age.

Prices may be coming down on LED lights,  but so is quality.  I had a 10 year LED light go bad after 3 years.
Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

PHLBOS

Quote from: Bruce on November 02, 2019, 05:44:49 PMUnfortunately stuff like rear backup cameras and side-door sensors are there for a reason.
No offense but did you even read the OP's opening sentence (reposted below with bold emphasis added):
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 01, 2019, 05:21:21 PMMoreover, why is there an incessant need to add technology features that don't improve safety and/or don't enhance the driving experience?
RobbieL2415 wasn't necessarily referring to those items.

Quote from: vdeane on November 03, 2019, 09:10:02 PMManually cranking the windows wasn't hard as a passenger, but I can't imagine how a driver could do it.
Very easy; right-hand on the wheel, left-hand on the window crank.  Such was SOP when approaching a parking garage booth or a toll-booth pre-E-ZPass days.  One just didn't do such while navigating a turn while in motion.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

hbelkins

Quote from: vdeane on November 03, 2019, 09:10:02 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on November 03, 2019, 03:38:44 PM
Can you even get a car these days that doesn't have power windows or power locks?

The last new vehicle my dad bought was a 1998 Chevy pickup truck. He ordered it from the dealer. He could not get a truck that didn't have power windows or locks, and he wanted no part of them. He preferred manual locks and crank-it-yourself windows.

If he was alive today, he'd hate these new cars. I'm pretty much right with him. All I really need is cruise control and a stereo with an "aux" jack, and plenty of lighter ports to charge/power my accessories, and I'm happy.
Interesting.  I can understand power locks, but power windows?  Manually cranking the windows wasn't hard as a passenger, but I can't imagine how a driver could do it.

I do share the sentiment with regards to many "features" out today, like touchscreen everything and lane keep "assist".

If the battery dies with the windows down, or the motor quits working, and it's going to rain, how do you get them rolled up?


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

vdeane

Quote from: PHLBOS on November 04, 2019, 01:40:39 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 03, 2019, 09:10:02 PMManually cranking the windows wasn't hard as a passenger, but I can't imagine how a driver could do it.
Very easy; right-hand on the wheel, left-hand on the window crank.  Such was SOP when approaching a parking garage booth or a toll-booth pre-E-ZPass days.  One just didn't do such while navigating a turn while in motion.
Well, I drive stick shift, so good luck handling the clutch, steering wheel, and window all at the same time while accelerating away from one of those places (which I try to do so promptly if gate arms are involved).

Quote from: hbelkins on November 04, 2019, 01:44:28 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 03, 2019, 09:10:02 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on November 03, 2019, 03:38:44 PM
Can you even get a car these days that doesn't have power windows or power locks?

The last new vehicle my dad bought was a 1998 Chevy pickup truck. He ordered it from the dealer. He could not get a truck that didn't have power windows or locks, and he wanted no part of them. He preferred manual locks and crank-it-yourself windows.

If he was alive today, he'd hate these new cars. I'm pretty much right with him. All I really need is cruise control and a stereo with an "aux" jack, and plenty of lighter ports to charge/power my accessories, and I'm happy.
Interesting.  I can understand power locks, but power windows?  Manually cranking the windows wasn't hard as a passenger, but I can't imagine how a driver could do it.

I do share the sentiment with regards to many "features" out today, like touchscreen everything and lane keep "assist".

If the battery dies with the windows down, or the motor quits working, and it's going to rain, how do you get them rolled up?
I guess I've never had those situations since I don't leave my windows down when the car is not in use and have never driven a car with an unreliable motor.  Actually, I don't roll the windows down much period... while driving I'd rather not have the air blowing my hair every which way or the noise, and while parked I don't want the bugs, potential for bird poop (which I've actually seen on the windows before... not often, but not never, either), leaves, etc.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

PHLBOS

Quote from: vdeane on November 04, 2019, 01:55:32 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on November 04, 2019, 01:40:39 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 03, 2019, 09:10:02 PMManually cranking the windows wasn't hard as a passenger, but I can't imagine how a driver could do it.
Very easy; right-hand on the wheel, left-hand on the window crank.  Such was SOP when approaching a parking garage booth or a toll-booth pre-E-ZPass days.  One just didn't do such while navigating a turn while in motion.
Well, I drive stick shift, so good luck handling the clutch, steering wheel, and window all at the same time while accelerating away from one of those places (which I try to do so promptly if gate arms are involved).
No offense Val, but many older, basic vehicles featured both manual transmissions & hand-crank windows.  Several of my father's cars (two Ford Pinto station wagons from the 70s & an '83 Ford Escort) were equipped in such an a manner.  The only manual-transmissioned I ever drove had crank windows as well. 

If a driver needed to raise or lower their window; they just did such when they didn't have to use their gear shift while in motion.  If such conditions weren't possible/permissible, one just pulled over and adjusted their windows... just like one would adjust their manual mirrors.

Quote from: hbelkins on November 03, 2019, 03:38:44 PMIf the battery dies with the windows down, or the motor quits working, and it's going to rain, how do you get them rolled up?
My mother's main argument against power windows (I don't believe she ever owned a car equipped with such) was if one found themselves in a lake or a pond.  With crank windows, one can simply roll the window(s) down as a means of escaping without carrying a supplemental tool to smash the glass.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

kphoger

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 02, 2019, 09:08:30 PM
Not only that most dealers will locate a base car you do want.  You don't have to roll off the lot with what the dealer has. 

Not necessarily true.  Back in M.Y. 1997, my dad wanted to trade in his 1988 Toyota Camry with a stickshift for a new 1997 Toyota Camry with a stickshift.  We lived in rural northwestern Kansas, so we drove up to McCook (NE) to the local Toyota dealer there.  The dealer didn't have any in stock with a stickshift but told us the nearest one was in Denver.  When we asked if it could be transported to the dealership, the owner said he was not allowed to do that  The reason?:  he was only allowed to have a certain number of each model car on the lot at any one time, and he was already maxed out on the Camry.  He wasn't allowed to have another Camry transported to his dealership, even with a customer standing in his office ready to buy it.  So what did we do?  We drove to Denver and bought the car there.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

kphoger

Quote from: hbelkins on November 04, 2019, 01:44:28 PM
If the battery dies with the windows down, or the motor quits working, and it's going to rain, how do you get them rolled up?

The switch is going out on my front driver's side window, and it's to the point that I don't really trust it to "roll" back up again once I've "rolled" it down.  For that reason, I almost always open the door instead of rolling down the window.  It's a pain at drive-through windows, toll booths, checkpoints, etc, but it's better than having a window that won't roll up.  I especially disliked it in the beautiful autumn weather, when I desperately wanted to drive with my arm out the window.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

corco

Quote from: vdeane on November 04, 2019, 01:55:32 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on November 04, 2019, 01:40:39 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 03, 2019, 09:10:02 PMManually cranking the windows wasn't hard as a passenger, but I can't imagine how a driver could do it.
Very easy; right-hand on the wheel, left-hand on the window crank.  Such was SOP when approaching a parking garage booth or a toll-booth pre-E-ZPass days.  One just didn't do such while navigating a turn while in motion.
Well, I drive stick shift, so good luck handling the clutch, steering wheel, and window all at the same time while accelerating away from one of those places (which I try to do so promptly if gate arms are involved).

This isn't that hard- you just wait until you're done shifting before rolling the window up. If it's raining or something you accelerate slowly while rolling the window up so you don't have to shift for five seconds. I'm not even that old and have driven several cars configured this way

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: kphoger on November 04, 2019, 02:41:52 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 04, 2019, 01:44:28 PM
If the battery dies with the windows down, or the motor quits working, and it's going to rain, how do you get them rolled up?

The switch is going out on my front driver's side window, and it's to the point that I don't really trust it to "roll" back up again once I've "rolled" it down.  For that reason, I almost always open the door instead of rolling down the window.  It's a pain at drive-through windows, toll booths, checkpoints, etc, but it's better than having a window that won't roll up.  I especially disliked it in the beautiful autumn weather, when I desperately wanted to drive with my arm out the window.

In my case they initially said something like that.  My response was "I'll just go to Tucson then"  which greased the wheels with the inventory swap.  Might have not hurt I was doing a cash purchase?  Really I think it depends on how much the dealer really wants the business of a stubborn customer. 

kphoger

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 04, 2019, 04:10:33 PM

Quote from: kphoger on November 04, 2019, 02:39:11 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 02, 2019, 09:08:30 PM
Not only that most dealers will locate a base car you do want.  You don't have to roll off the lot with what the dealer has. 

Not necessarily true.  Back in M.Y. 1997, my dad wanted to trade in his 1988 Toyota Camry with a stickshift for a new 1997 Toyota Camry with a stickshift.  We lived in rural northwestern Kansas, so we drove up to McCook (NE) to the local Toyota dealer there.  The dealer didn't have any in stock with a stickshift but told us the nearest one was in Denver.  When we asked if it could be transported to the dealership, the owner said he was not allowed to do that  The reason?:  he was only allowed to have a certain number of each model car on the lot at any one time, and he was already maxed out on the Camry.  He wasn't allowed to have another Camry transported to his dealership, even with a customer standing in his office ready to buy it.  So what did we do?  We drove to Denver and bought the car there.

In my case they initially said something like that.  My response was "I'll just go to Tucson then"  which greased the wheels with the inventory swap.  Might have not hurt I was doing a cash purchase?  Really I think it depends on how much the dealer really wants the business of a stubborn customer. 

(Fixed your quote string, because you had quoted a different post of mine.)

Yeah, paying cash gives you a lot of leverage.  After I had T-boned another driver a couple of years ago, my wife and I drove up to Kansas City to look for another used Pathfinder.  I had three dealerships written down to check out.  The first one looked sketchy enough that we never even stopped there.  At the second one, I found the car I wanted to buy sitting in the lot.  The dealer said another couple had already put down a deposit, but their financing approval hadn't come back yet.  I told him I was prepared to write a check for the full amount and wasn't leaving KC without a Pathfinder–whether from his dealership or another (and I had one more dealership to check out too).  He called his finance officer, who was at his son's football on his day off, and lo and behold! that other couple ended up not qualifying for financing.  I don't know if they actually failed the application or if he talked the finance officer into making them fail but, either way, we drove away with our car.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

RobbieL2415

Let me clarify:. I prefer a new car that meets all FMVSS requirements and drives nimbly and confidently without features that distract from my ability to maintain control of the vehicle.  I really don't see a need for Bluetooth integration when I can pair a headset to my phone and mount the phone on the dash.  And I'm already paying off a phone to begin with.  On that note, anything my phone can do my car really shouldn't need to do.  Honestly the R&D that goes into infotainment should be diverted to structural engineering and aerodynamics.  What is it anyways, what having infotainment do the same thing the car does?  It's redundant.

corco

Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 04, 2019, 05:18:10 PM
Let me clarify:. I prefer a new car that meets all FMVSS requirements and drives nimbly and confidently without features that distract from my ability to maintain control of the vehicle.  I really don't see a need for Bluetooth integration when I can pair a headset to my phone and mount the phone on the dash.  And I'm already paying off a phone to begin with.  On that note, anything my phone can do my car really shouldn't need to do.  Honestly the R&D that goes into infotainment should be diverted to structural engineering and aerodynamics.  What is it anyways, what having infotainment do the same thing the car does?  It's redundant.

I agree with this- if there existed a midsize sedan with manual everything that drives and performs like a well-built modern car I'd buy it.

I'm basically looking for the modern equivalent of a 1980s European market Mercedes-Benz taxi.

jakeroot

Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 04, 2019, 05:18:10 PM
Let me clarify:. I prefer a new car that meets all FMVSS requirements and drives nimbly and confidently without features that distract from my ability to maintain control of the vehicle.  I really don't see a need for Bluetooth integration when I can pair a headset to my phone and mount the phone on the dash.  And I'm already paying off a phone to begin with.  On that note, anything my phone can do my car really shouldn't need to do.  Honestly the R&D that goes into infotainment should be diverted to structural engineering and aerodynamics.  What is it anyways, what having infotainment do the same thing the car does?  It's redundant.

You better not be driving with a headset on. That's idiotic. Bluetooth allows you to hear everything around you in addition to the caller. Headsets block out too much for safe operation.

The R&D that has gone into infotainment has primarily been to distinguish vehicle brands, at least in my opinion. The Audi A4, Mercedes C-Class, and BMW 3-Series all drive very similarly. Their only distinguishing features are optional engines, performance modes, and...yep, infotainment. It's important that you have a good infotainment system because those that are slow, confusing, or otherwise distracting will ultimately prove less safe. Plus, the more features from your phone that are on the car, the less likely you are to reach for your phone. If Waze is on your center display, and you can control it almost entirely with voice operation, that's a clear operational and safety advantage over using it directly on the phone.

US 89

Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2019, 05:30:11 PM
You better not be driving with a headset on. That's idiotic.

And also illegal in a lot of states. But you can always use an aux cord to play music from your phone or talk on speaker without a full Bluetooth integration.

jakeroot

Quote from: US 89 on November 04, 2019, 06:25:38 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2019, 05:30:11 PM
You better not be driving with a headset on. That's idiotic.

And also illegal in a lot of states. But you can always use an aux cord to play music from your phone or talk on speaker without a full Bluetooth integration.

At that point, you may as well use Bluetooth, which connects automatically every time you enter your car (read: easier). Fumbling around with wires just isn't necessary; technology has [mostly] superseded the need for them.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: US 89 on November 04, 2019, 06:25:38 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2019, 05:30:11 PM
You better not be driving with a headset on. That's idiotic.

And also illegal in a lot of states. But you can always use an aux cord to play music from your phone or talk on speaker without a full Bluetooth integration.

Problem is a lot of cars don't even come with the AUX jack anymore.  For people like me who don't like to learn how to properly us connectivity that's a concern.  More so I use my phone as my dash board camera, I'd rather it be purposed for that and not playing my music.  I'd be curious to find out what states prohibit head phone usage, I know it's probably most but I don't think it's all yet. 

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: kphoger on November 04, 2019, 04:51:48 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 04, 2019, 04:10:33 PM

Quote from: kphoger on November 04, 2019, 02:39:11 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 02, 2019, 09:08:30 PM
Not only that most dealers will locate a base car you do want.  You don't have to roll off the lot with what the dealer has. 

Not necessarily true.  Back in M.Y. 1997, my dad wanted to trade in his 1988 Toyota Camry with a stickshift for a new 1997 Toyota Camry with a stickshift.  We lived in rural northwestern Kansas, so we drove up to McCook (NE) to the local Toyota dealer there.  The dealer didn't have any in stock with a stickshift but told us the nearest one was in Denver.  When we asked if it could be transported to the dealership, the owner said he was not allowed to do that  The reason?:  he was only allowed to have a certain number of each model car on the lot at any one time, and he was already maxed out on the Camry.  He wasn't allowed to have another Camry transported to his dealership, even with a customer standing in his office ready to buy it.  So what did we do?  We drove to Denver and bought the car there.

In my case they initially said something like that.  My response was "I'll just go to Tucson then"  which greased the wheels with the inventory swap.  Might have not hurt I was doing a cash purchase?  Really I think it depends on how much the dealer really wants the business of a stubborn customer. 

(Fixed your quote string, because you had quoted a different post of mine.)

Yeah, paying cash gives you a lot of leverage.  After I had T-boned another driver a couple of years ago, my wife and I drove up to Kansas City to look for another used Pathfinder.  I had three dealerships written down to check out.  The first one looked sketchy enough that we never even stopped there.  At the second one, I found the car I wanted to buy sitting in the lot.  The dealer said another couple had already put down a deposit, but their financing approval hadn't come back yet.  I told him I was prepared to write a check for the full amount and wasn't leaving KC without a Pathfinder–whether from his dealership or another (and I had one more dealership to check out too).  He called his finance officer, who was at his son's football on his day off, and lo and behold! that other couple ended up not qualifying for financing.  I don't know if they actually failed the application or if he talked the finance officer into making them fail but, either way, we drove away with our car.

If I recall correctly the sales person asked me about a half dozen times if I was serious, it isn't exactly a common thing in volume dealers.  I did the same thing once when I ordered a car, it seemed to break down that resistance especially when a deposit was made.  Either way, a consumer with patience could always call the dealers bluff and shop around for what they really want instead of accepting dealer stock. 

Gulol

A lot of correct info listed prior and I'll add, since I work for an auto manufacturer, the R&D costs in developing new vehicles along with raw material costs is probably the biggest factor into what goes into the price of a vehicle.  Tons of mandatory safety features that have been added factor into the cost as well, and then recalls can impact the cost of 3rd party parts (think Takata airbags and no volume supplier to offset this).  Add to this that the majority of consumers want all the latest and greatest of the bells and whistles on their vehicles, even if they rarely use them.  Cheap gas has upped the US consumer's want for trucks and SUVs versus cars and the costs to build a truck or SUV versus a car is higher as well.  Finally, the borrowing costs and insurance costs for dealers to keep vehicles on their lots is getting a lot more expensive, so dealers are having to be smart about the inventory they keep on their lots and do their parts to ensure their days supply of units won't have them bleeding more money than they want to or can afford to.  Lots of moving parts here that I can get deep in the weeds on, so I'll stop on this front.

Used probably is the way to go but the good news/bad news on this is that affordability issues of new cars is increasing demand on used cars and these vehicles are holding their value or in some cases, exceeding it. The reason you see dealers or dealer groups advertising heavily about offering to buy your used car, even if you don't buy from them, is because most dealers are having to pay close to retail book value at auction to stock up their lots.

US71

My 2 Pfennig's: the "whiz-bang"  features are an excuse to charge more.  A feature costs an extra $5 but the mark-up makes it $100.

and don't ever lose your electronic car key: the dealer will charge $150+ for a replacement, though an independent locksmith may charge $80...IF it works.
Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

RobbieL2415

Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2019, 06:31:36 PM
Quote from: US 89 on November 04, 2019, 06:25:38 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2019, 05:30:11 PM
You better not be driving with a headset on. That's idiotic.

And also illegal in a lot of states. But you can always use an aux cord to play music from your phone or talk on speaker without a full Bluetooth integration.

At that point, you may as well use Bluetooth, which connects automatically every time you enter your car (read: easier). Fumbling around with wires just isn't necessary; technology has [mostly] superseded the need for them.
I am specifically referring to a hands-free earpieces.  Those are legal everywhere. 

DTComposer

Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 04, 2019, 07:55:03 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2019, 06:31:36 PM
Quote from: US 89 on November 04, 2019, 06:25:38 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2019, 05:30:11 PM
You better not be driving with a headset on. That's idiotic.

And also illegal in a lot of states. But you can always use an aux cord to play music from your phone or talk on speaker without a full Bluetooth integration.

At that point, you may as well use Bluetooth, which connects automatically every time you enter your car (read: easier). Fumbling around with wires just isn't necessary; technology has [mostly] superseded the need for them.
I am specifically referring to a hands-free earpieces.  Those are legal everywhere. 

In California you can only have them in one ear, regardless if they're wired or not. In at least four other states they're completely illegal, and several other states have the one-ear restriction like California.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: DTComposer on November 04, 2019, 08:12:13 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 04, 2019, 07:55:03 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2019, 06:31:36 PM
Quote from: US 89 on November 04, 2019, 06:25:38 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2019, 05:30:11 PM
You better not be driving with a headset on. That's idiotic.

And also illegal in a lot of states. But you can always use an aux cord to play music from your phone or talk on speaker without a full Bluetooth integration.

At that point, you may as well use Bluetooth, which connects automatically every time you enter your car (read: easier). Fumbling around with wires just isn't necessary; technology has [mostly] superseded the need for them.
I am specifically referring to a hands-free earpieces.  Those are legal everywhere. 

In California you can only have them in one ear, regardless if they're wired or not. In at least four other states they're completely illegal, and several other states have the one-ear restriction like California.

My question is, how does wearing head phones or some sort of head set constitute something unsafe compared to loud music or just talking on a hands free device?   When I was in Florida I left my ear phones in all the time after the gym because I didn't want to plug in my MP3 player into the AUX jack.  I don't recall ever having an issue hearing sirens or train horns, I could see everything as I normally would be. 

DTComposer

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 04, 2019, 08:19:57 PM
Quote from: DTComposer on November 04, 2019, 08:12:13 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 04, 2019, 07:55:03 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2019, 06:31:36 PM
Quote from: US 89 on November 04, 2019, 06:25:38 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 04, 2019, 05:30:11 PM
You better not be driving with a headset on. That's idiotic.

And also illegal in a lot of states. But you can always use an aux cord to play music from your phone or talk on speaker without a full Bluetooth integration.

At that point, you may as well use Bluetooth, which connects automatically every time you enter your car (read: easier). Fumbling around with wires just isn't necessary; technology has [mostly] superseded the need for them.
I am specifically referring to a hands-free earpieces.  Those are legal everywhere. 

In California you can only have them in one ear, regardless if they're wired or not. In at least four other states they're completely illegal, and several other states have the one-ear restriction like California.

My question is, how does wearing head phones or some sort of head set constitute something unsafe compared to loud music or just talking on a hands free device?   When I was in Florida I left my ear phones in all the time after the gym because I didn't want to plug in my MP3 player into the AUX jack.  I don't recall ever having an issue hearing sirens or train horns, I could see everything as I normally would be. 

It's a great question, and I agree with you. I suppose the thinking is the physical earphone/earbud will block out ambient/environmental noise and make it harder to hear sirens/etc. than just having loud music from the speakers? I can't say I've noticed a difference.



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