Toyota Camry

[tolbs17]

I'm 6'1 myself and I drove a Chevy Sonic in addition to a Ford Fiesta through the last 7 years as daily drivers.  That's a myth a lot of people try to perpetuate that sub-compact cars can't be operated comfortably by tall people.

How about sitting in the back seat? If you have 3 tall people in the car, you will be uncomfortable. Unless you are by yourself

Those small hatchbacks usually have tall roofs. Better for tall people than a similar sedan.

Have you considered something like a Toyota Matrix?

Nope, I don't like hatchbacks that much. I'm a sedan and suv person. I also like minivans. Although I think my brother would get one if he has interest in them but i don't know. He has a 2011 Toyota Corolla that I driven today that is okay, but a little too small.

[tolbs17]

That's the thing, a lot of the change is being driven by efficiency concerns.  Don't forget CAFE laws are only mandating increases in Corporate Fuel economy over time.  At minimum unlike the Malaise Era the engineering technology is advancing so rapidly that cars still preform well with four and six cylinder variants.  300HP just two decades ago was a lot of out a V8, now we have some high end four bangers hitting that mark.

And in terms of the V6, fifth generation is better than sixth generation.

Talking about 2002-2006 is better than 2007-2011?

[Max Rockatansky]

I'm 6'1 myself and I drove a Chevy Sonic in addition to a Ford Fiesta through the last 7 years as daily drivers.  That's a myth a lot of people try to perpetuate that sub-compact cars can't be operated comfortably by tall people.

How about sitting in the back seat? If you have 3 tall people in the car, you will be uncomfortable. Unless you are by yourself

Those small hatchbacks usually have tall roofs. Better for tall people than a similar sedan.

Have you considered something like a Toyota Matrix?

Nope, I don't like hatchbacks that much. I'm a sedan and suv person. I also like minivans. Although I think my brother would get one if he has interest in them but i don't know. He has a 2011 Toyota Corolla that I driven today that is okay, but a little too small.

To answer your question I moved across the country twice; once in the Sonic and once in the Fiesta.  I was carrying 700lbs of cargo which included myself and dog.  Both trips were over 2,000 miles and was comfortable.  So yes, tall passengers were a breeze on local trips.  I wouldn't want to be in that back seat in either car on a long trip but my priority wasn't the comfort of passengers, just my own economy. 

[tolbs17]

I'm 6'1 myself and I drove a Chevy Sonic in addition to a Ford Fiesta through the last 7 years as daily drivers.  That's a myth a lot of people try to perpetuate that sub-compact cars can't be operated comfortably by tall people.

How about sitting in the back seat? If you have 3 tall people in the car, you will be uncomfortable. Unless you are by yourself

Those small hatchbacks usually have tall roofs. Better for tall people than a similar sedan.

Have you considered something like a Toyota Matrix?

Nope, I don't like hatchbacks that much. I'm a sedan and suv person. I also like minivans. Although I think my brother would get one if he has interest in them but i don't know. He has a 2011 Toyota Corolla that I driven today that is okay, but a little too small.

To answer your question I moved across the country twice; once in the Sonic and once in the Fiesta.  I was carrying 700lbs of cargo which included myself and dog.  Both trips were over 2,000 miles and was comfortable.  So yes, tall passengers were a breeze on local trips.  I wouldn't want to be in that back seat in either car on a long trip but my priority wasn't the comfort of passengers, just my own economy.

It was probably just you and your dog and the luggage. I'm sure you didn't have a full house in the car.

[Max Rockatansky]

I'm 6'1 myself and I drove a Chevy Sonic in addition to a Ford Fiesta through the last 7 years as daily drivers.  That's a myth a lot of people try to perpetuate that sub-compact cars can't be operated comfortably by tall people.

How about sitting in the back seat? If you have 3 tall people in the car, you will be uncomfortable. Unless you are by yourself

Those small hatchbacks usually have tall roofs. Better for tall people than a similar sedan.

Have you considered something like a Toyota Matrix?

Nope, I don't like hatchbacks that much. I'm a sedan and suv person. I also like minivans. Although I think my brother would get one if he has interest in them but i don't know. He has a 2011 Toyota Corolla that I driven today that is okay, but a little too small.

To answer your question I moved across the country twice; once in the Sonic and once in the Fiesta.  I was carrying 700lbs of cargo which included myself and dog.  Both trips were over 2,000 miles and was comfortable.  So yes, tall passengers were a breeze on local trips.  I wouldn't want to be in that back seat in either car on a long trip but my priority wasn't the comfort of passengers, just my own economy.

It was probably just you and your dog and the luggage. I'm sure you didn't have a full house in the car.

700lbs of cargo amounted to four storage box totes on one trip, three on another and a full trunk on both trips.  I actually had to make sure I wasn't exceeding the cargo capacity both times, both cars were rated for about 800-850lbs.  Not a full house but pretty much way more than anyone would normally expect to see in cars that small.   Unloading both those cars was a chore every night at the hotels to be sure.  The dog (about 60lbs) rode captains chair next to me both trips.  Point I'm trying to make is that you can load a lot in a small car and not exceed the cargo capacity.  It sounds like you're aiming your expectations for a first car beyond what your practical needs are. 

[ozarkman417]

For my first car this is what dad is thinking about getting me. It's somewhere between 2008 and 2012 and no higher than 125k miles. Corolla is too small, so I would do Camry or Accord.

I will have pics when I get the car.

i'm sure 6 cylinders are FUN to drive!!

Just out curiosity what makes a Corolla too small?  My wife put 210,000 on her 09 Corolla she bought from new.  That thing is economical as all hell.

I'm 6' 1'' or 6' 2''.

I'm 6'1 myself and I drove a Chevy Sonic in addition to a Ford Fiesta through the last 7 years as daily drivers.  That's a myth a lot of people try to perpetuate that sub-compact cars can't be operated comfortably by tall people.

How about sitting in the back seat? If you have 3 tall people in the car, you will be uncomfortable. Unless you are by yourself

Are you planning on carrying people in the back of your car that often? For me I have to constantly pick up my friends to do any sort of event with them, and I'm also in high school. I have to pick up at least one of them quite frequently, maybe every 2-3 weeks. The tallest of my friends is 6' 4".

[Max Rockatansky]

For my first car this is what dad is thinking about getting me. It's somewhere between 2008 and 2012 and no higher than 125k miles. Corolla is too small, so I would do Camry or Accord.

I will have pics when I get the car.

i'm sure 6 cylinders are FUN to drive!!

Just out curiosity what makes a Corolla too small?  My wife put 210,000 on her 09 Corolla she bought from new.  That thing is economical as all hell.

I'm 6' 1'' or 6' 2''.

I'm 6'1 myself and I drove a Chevy Sonic in addition to a Ford Fiesta through the last 7 years as daily drivers.  That's a myth a lot of people try to perpetuate that sub-compact cars can't be operated comfortably by tall people.

How about sitting in the back seat? If you have 3 tall people in the car, you will be uncomfortable. Unless you are by yourself

Are you planning on carrying people in the back of your car that often? For me I have to constantly pick up my friends to do any sort of event with them, and I'm also in high school. I have to pick up at least one of them quite frequently, maybe every 2-3 weeks. The tallest of my friends is 6' 4".

Yes, my wife's family is quite numerous and often finds themselves back there.  But I stand by the advice, prioritize your needs over what your friends want out of a car or even what you want.  At this point in the game a car is much of a "need" thing than a list of options of creature comforts you want.  A good sub-compact at 150,000 miles would cost you less than half of what that tarted out Camry would.

I should note that my latest daily driver is a 2019 Impreza.  Not quite sub-compact but it is the next class up with a compact.  Finding AWD variants in entry level cars is still somewhat surprisingly rare in these days.

[Max Rockatansky]

That's the thing, a lot of the change is being driven by efficiency concerns.  Don't forget CAFE laws are only mandating increases in Corporate Fuel economy over time.  At minimum unlike the Malaise Era the engineering technology is advancing so rapidly that cars still preform well with four and six cylinder variants.  300HP just two decades ago was a lot of out a V8, now we have some high end four bangers hitting that mark.

The rapidly evolving tech concerns me.  I'd sooner have a last-generation Lexus LS with a normally-aspirated V8 than a current-generation one with the twin-turbo V6.  Turbos are very hard on motor oil, and GDI without a conventional (indirect) FI component is a recipe for intake valve clogging.  It also bugs me that although the problem of how to build engines with effectively zero oil consumption has been solved since the 1920's, the automakers still think it is optional to design to that target.

I'm still finding myself questioning the reliability of turbo charged and super charged engines.  My 2014 Sonic was a 1.4L Turbo which had problems handling the 87 octane it was designed for.  I have never had so many check engines lights come on from knocking in a single car, I was using 89 octane for elevations over 3,000 feet by the end. 

It's also the top of the line trim with push start, v6 engine, and leather seats, so that's probably why too. If it was a base model and a four cylinder, it wouldn't be that expensive i'm sure.

I'd pay big money for one of those 4-cylinder Camrys with a manual transmission. That body style was the last for the 5-speed.

On a side note, it just struck me that I probably qualify as old since a V8 is what I considered aspirational around the same age. 

Respectfully...can confirm. No desire for a V8 myself. Twin turbo V6? Hot mama!!

I don't know, the 392CI/6.4L Hemi on a day is a lot of fun with all that displacement driven torque.  The best part is no turbo lag.

[tolbs17]

For my first car this is what dad is thinking about getting me. It's somewhere between 2008 and 2012 and no higher than 125k miles. Corolla is too small, so I would do Camry or Accord.

I will have pics when I get the car.

i'm sure 6 cylinders are FUN to drive!!

Just out curiosity what makes a Corolla too small?  My wife put 210,000 on her 09 Corolla she bought from new.  That thing is economical as all hell.

I'm 6' 1'' or 6' 2''.

I'm 6'1 myself and I drove a Chevy Sonic in addition to a Ford Fiesta through the last 7 years as daily drivers.  That's a myth a lot of people try to perpetuate that sub-compact cars can't be operated comfortably by tall people.

How about sitting in the back seat? If you have 3 tall people in the car, you will be uncomfortable. Unless you are by yourself

Are you planning on carrying people in the back of your car that often? For me I have to constantly pick up my friends to do any sort of event with them, and I'm also in high school. I have to pick up at least one of them quite frequently, maybe every 2-3 weeks. The tallest of my friends is 6' 4".

Yeah, I have a mentor that works with me and sometimes he might need me to bring my car to carry some of his folks. I say they need room so they are not cramped!

[Max Rockatansky]

For my first car this is what dad is thinking about getting me. It's somewhere between 2008 and 2012 and no higher than 125k miles. Corolla is too small, so I would do Camry or Accord.

I will have pics when I get the car.

i'm sure 6 cylinders are FUN to drive!!

Just out curiosity what makes a Corolla too small?  My wife put 210,000 on her 09 Corolla she bought from new.  That thing is economical as all hell.

I'm 6' 1'' or 6' 2''.

I'm 6'1 myself and I drove a Chevy Sonic in addition to a Ford Fiesta through the last 7 years as daily drivers.  That's a myth a lot of people try to perpetuate that sub-compact cars can't be operated comfortably by tall people.

How about sitting in the back seat? If you have 3 tall people in the car, you will be uncomfortable. Unless you are by yourself

Are you planning on carrying people in the back of your car that often? For me I have to constantly pick up my friends to do any sort of event with them, and I'm also in high school. I have to pick up at least one of them quite frequently, maybe every 2-3 weeks. The tallest of my friends is 6' 4".

Yeah, I have a mentor that works with me and sometimes he might need me to bring my car to carry some of his folks. I say they need room so they are not cramped!

Doesn't sound like much of a mentor if they need to bum rides off you.  Hopefully you'll get gas money for that. 

[kphoger]

For my first car this is what dad is thinking about getting me. It's somewhere between 2008 and 2012 and no higher than 125k miles. Corolla is too small, so I would do Camry or Accord.

I will have pics when I get the car.

i'm sure 6 cylinders are FUN to drive!!

Just out curiosity what makes a Corolla too small?  My wife put 210,000 on her 09 Corolla she bought from new.  That thing is economical as all hell.

I'm 6' 1'' or 6' 2''.

That's about my height.  I learned how to drive in my dad's 1988 Toyota Camry with a stickshift.  My mom had a 1992 Toyota Camry station wagon with an automatic, which I also drove.  My dad then traded his in for a 1997 Toyota Camry with a stickshift, which I also drove extensively.  When I went off to college, I had a 1995 Toyota Corolla with a stickshift.  Several years later, I owned a 1987 Toyota Corolla hatchback with a stickshift.  In all of those cars, I never had any issues with headroom.  More importantly, my legs were fully extended without even having the seat quite all the way back.  Summary:  at least from 1987 to 1997, none of the five Corollas or Camrys gave this tall guy any problems.  In fact, I had more legroom in those cars than in my current seven-passenger SUV.  Since that time, Corollas have only gotten bigger.

tl;dr / Don't worry about a Corolla being too small.  I highly doubt it would be.

[kphoger]

2010 Toyota Camry
Front legroom = 41.7 inches
Rear  legroom = 38.3 inches

2010 Toyota Corolla
Front legroom = 41.7 inches
Rear legroom = 36.3 inches

By way of comparison, here is my current vehicle, in which I can comfortably sit in the back seat:

2006 Nissan Pathfinder SE
Front legroom = 42.4 inches
Rear legroom = 34.2 inches

As you can see, the Corolla has more rear legroom in the back seat than my seven-passenger SUV.  And as I said, I've sat in the back seat with no problem.

[tolbs17]

2010 Toyota Camry
Front legroom = 41.7 inches
Rear  legroom = 38.3 inches

2010 Toyota Corolla
Front legroom = 41.7 inches
Rear legroom = 36.3 inches

By way of comparison, here is my current vehicle, in which I can comfortably sit in the back seat:

2006 Nissan Pathfinder SE
Front legroom = 42.4 inches
Rear legroom = 34.2 inches

As you can see, the Corolla has more rear legroom in the back seat than my seven-passenger SUV.  And as I said, I've sat in the back seat with no problem.

So, if I were to get a car, the corolla is better than camry?

Look at headroom too. I'm cramped. especially in a Versa.

[kphoger]

2010 Toyota Camry
Front headroom = 39 inches
Rear headroom = 38 inches

2010 Toyota Corolla
Front headroom = 39 inches
Rear  headroom = 37 inches

2010 Nissan Versa hatchback
Front headroom = 41 inches
Rear headroom = 38 inches

[tolbs17]

2010 Toyota Avalon

Front leg room = 41.3 inches
Rear leg room = 40.9 inches

Front head room = 38.9 inches
Rear head room = 37.5 inches

So the Avalon is not as roomy in the back when comparing it to the headroom. Interesting. Now let's bring in the Honda Accord!

2010 Honda Accord

Front leg room = 42.5 inches
Rear leg room = 37.2 inches

Front head room = 39 inches
Rear head room   = 37 inches

The Accord is about the same as the Camry I think. But apparently it's more cramped. I guess a bigger car just has more stuff to it that's standard and kinda unnecessary for a first car. I might end up getting a compact car then.

[ozarkman417]

That's the thing, a lot of the change is being driven by efficiency concerns.  Don't forget CAFE laws are only mandating increases in Corporate Fuel economy over time.  At minimum unlike the Malaise Era the engineering technology is advancing so rapidly that cars still preform well with four and six cylinder variants.  300HP just two decades ago was a lot of out a V8, now we have some high end four bangers hitting that mark.

The rapidly evolving tech concerns me.  I'd sooner have a last-generation Lexus LS with a normally-aspirated V8 than a current-generation one with the twin-turbo V6.  Turbos are very hard on motor oil, and GDI without a conventional (indirect) FI component is a recipe for intake valve clogging.  It also bugs me that although the problem of how to build engines with effectively zero oil consumption has been solved since the 1920's, the automakers still think it is optional to design to that target.

I am speaking of this vehicle as one from which reliability can be expected because it is a Toyota Camry, not because it is a Toyota; the company does make some unreliable models.  And in terms of the V6, fifth generation is better than sixth generation.

Turbo engines are the only option for many popular cars in 2019, so now is the time to buy used non-turbos, I guess. I suppose it's whatever it takes to make these vehicles more "efficient".

SM-G965U

[jakeroot]

On a side note, it just struck me that I probably qualify as old since a V8 is what I considered aspirational around the same age. 

Respectfully...can confirm. No desire for a V8 myself. Twin turbo V6? Hot mama!!

I don't know, the 392CI/6.4L Hemi on a day is a lot of fun with all that displacement driven torque.  The best part is no turbo lag.

No argument from me. It just so happens that I'm a fan of the noises that turbos make. Plus, newer automatic gearboxes seem to do a fantastic job at handling turbo engines. I just saw a review of the new Audi RS5 with its 2.9TT V6, and the video suggested that downshifts (and upshifts) were virtually immediate. It's a trend that I've been noticing with others cars as well. I love my stick shift, and don't want to give it up any time soon, but I have to give credit where it's due.

Turbo engines are the only option for many popular cars in 2019, so now is the time to buy used non-turbos, I guess.

I feel like many of the "bugs" associated with turbos have been worked out as well. Cars are still getting more reliable, and they increasingly are (as you say) available only as turbos.

[tolbs17]

Backup cameras, alloy wheels, are pretty standard nowadays also. Even dual climate control in some models. well you have to go to the X trims, but it's standard. If you are looking at the accord, then it's standard. They have a review on the website saying why the accord beats the camry. It's true but it doesn't mean the accord is better than the camry. I say the 2018 camry is more of a young person car compared to the accord which is more of an old person car.

[jakeroot]

I say the 2018 camry is more of a young person car compared to the accord which is more of an old person car.

I dunno about that. Most enthusiasts would associate the Accord with younger buyers, on account of the continued availability of the manual transmission and generally more sporty driving dynamics.

[tolbs17]

I say the 2018 camry is more of a young person car compared to the accord which is more of an old person car.

I dunno about that. Most enthusiasts would associate the Accord with younger buyers, on account of the continued availability of the manual transmission and generally more sporty driving dynamics.

Well looking at the camry design (which most or all toyotas are built like that nowadays), it looks more of a younger buyers car. I can see the XSE being a sporty trim. But when looking at the Accord from 2017 to 2018, it doesn't really look that different because it doesn't have a red gauge cluster, but it's more fun. Maybe old people would get some chevy or buick.

People are also loving the new 2019 avalon

[Max Rockatansky]

I would probably say at this point almost no sedan out there would be considered "youthful."  Most mid-size sedans are stuck in their gradually declining family/I don't like driving oriented dynamic that for some reason automakers won't let them evolve out of.  There is a lot to be said about how Cross-Overs seem to have a wide open canvas for design elements in features but the sedan market (particularly mid-size) seems to be stuck in what it has been since the 1980s. 

[jakeroot]

I would probably say at this point almost no sedan out there would be considered "youthful."  Most mid-size sedans are stuck in their gradually declining family/I don't like driving oriented dynamic that for some reason automakers won't let them evolve out of.  There is a lot to be said about how Cross-Overs seem to have a wide open canvas for design elements in features but the sedan market (particularly mid-size) seems to be stuck in what it has been since the 1980s.

I'm not a fan of the crossover segment, but I'll be damned if I'm going to buy a car that doesn't have a squared-off rear-end. Hatch for life. It's a big reason why I'm part of the 5% who still prefer wagons.

[Max Rockatansky]

I would probably say at this point almost no sedan out there would be considered "youthful."  Most mid-size sedans are stuck in their gradually declining family/I don't like driving oriented dynamic that for some reason automakers won't let them evolve out of.  There is a lot to be said about how Cross-Overs seem to have a wide open canvas for design elements in features but the sedan market (particularly mid-size) seems to be stuck in what it has been since the 1980s.

I'm not a fan of the crossover segment, but I'll be damned if I'm going to buy a car that doesn't have a squared-off rear-end. Hatch for life. It's a big reason why I'm part of the 5% who still prefer wagons.

To me the Crossover segment is just a melding of the station wagons and mini-vans of old.  They certainly aren't really many true body-on-frame SUVs floating around either.  To me the crossovers just seem kind of dull and unnecessarily large, I'd rather have a conventional sedan or maybe a hatch back if I just need something to get around.  Considering how well my Impreza just did on over 80 miles of Forest Service Roads I would say it was plenty capable.  I would gotten the hatch had one been available in the base model. 

[kphoger]

They certainly aren't really many true body-on-frame SUVs floating around either. 

Mine is!  The Nissan Pathfinder was body-on-frame until MY 2013.

[Max Rockatansky]

They certainly aren't really many true body-on-frame SUVs floating around either. 

Mine is!  The Nissan Pathfinder was body-on-frame until MY 2013.

I used to have a 97 Silverado with a 4x4 package.  In retrospect that is the vehicle I could use he most now out of any I've ever gotten rid of.  There is only so much you can do off road in a Uni-Body.