New Jersey

[bzakharin]

It's great for the rest of us if and when the crisis is over, but the construction crews are risking their lives by showing up to work. I understand that they are considered essential workers, but I'm not sure how ethical making them work longer hours is. Penndot, for example, is doing the opposite by limiting road work to "essential" projects only. Of course, I have no idea what the financial situation of an average road construction worker is. For all I know they live paycheck to paycheck and can use every extra hour of work they could get.

[SteveG1988]

It's great for the rest of us if and when the crisis is over, but the construction crews are risking their lives by showing up to work. I understand that they are considered essential workers, but I'm not sure how ethical making them work longer hours is. Penndot, for example, is doing the opposite by limiting road work to "essential" projects only. Of course, I have no idea what the financial situation of an average road construction worker is. For all I know they live paycheck to paycheck and can use every extra hour of work they could get.

I am going to assume that a lot of workers love working during this because it is actually safer with less traffic. Makes their job less stressful.

[bzakharin]

It's great for the rest of us if and when the crisis is over, but the construction crews are risking their lives by showing up to work. I understand that they are considered essential workers, but I'm not sure how ethical making them work longer hours is. Penndot, for example, is doing the opposite by limiting road work to "essential" projects only. Of course, I have no idea what the financial situation of an average road construction worker is. For all I know they live paycheck to paycheck and can use every extra hour of work they could get.

I am going to assume that a lot of workers love working during this because it is actually safer with less traffic. Makes their job less stressful.

I'm talking about the danger of getting infected, not getting hit by traffic.

[Mr. Matté]

As part of a roadgeeking trip to North Jersey yesterday, I happened to pass through Columbia, NJ. The "Old Florida US 98" US 611 shield is still there.


Washington Street (old Route 8/94/46 and still maintained by the state as evidenced by this regulation and the standard NJDOT "No stopping or standing" signs with complimenting NJDOT stickers on such signs) which used to have a double white center line recently had a yellow paint overlay and some asphalt speed humps installed.


(Edit: Steve is right, no 46 here)

[Alps]

Washington Street (old Route 8/94/46 and still maintained by the state as evidenced by this regulation and the standard NJDOT "No stopping or standing" signs with complimenting NJDOT stickers on such signs) which used to have a double white center line recently had a yellow paint overlay and some asphalt speed humps installed.

Had no idea that was still NJDOT jurisdiction. That explains some things. Sad to see the white stripes go. I would correct you though: This was never US 46 to my knowledge. By the time the Delaware Bridge died, 611 already came across the river and the current 46/94 interchange was in place to some degree, so Columbia was already bypassed.

[civilmaher]

As part of a roadgeeking trip to North Jersey yesterday, I happened to pass through Columbia, NJ. The "Old Florida US 98" US 611 shield is still there.


Washington Street (old Route 8/94/46 and still maintained by the state as evidenced by this regulation and the standard NJDOT "No stopping or standing" signs with complimenting NJDOT stickers on such signs) which used to have a double white center line recently had a yellow paint overlay and some asphalt speed humps installed.


(Edit: Steve is right, no 46 here)

I never realized NJDOT had this site! Time to start digging for those orphaned state highway segments.

[akotchi]

The StreetView of that area (from August 2019) appears to still show the double solid white line.  The yellow must have been a pretty recent restriping.

[Alps]

I never realized NJDOT had this site! Time to start digging for those orphaned state highway segments.

Morris County is all pieces of interchanges (or roads connecting state highways - Taylor Rd. at NJ 15). In fact, the above is much the same - a short piece of connection from Columbia onto a state highway. It happened to be state maintained previously just like, say, Smith Road at 287/46/80, but I think any significant length of road away from an interchange would still have a number.

[storm2k]

I never realized NJDOT had this site! Time to start digging for those orphaned state highway segments.

Morris County is all pieces of interchanges (or roads connecting state highways - Taylor Rd. at NJ 15). In fact, the above is much the same - a short piece of connection from Columbia onto a state highway. It happened to be state maintained previously just like, say, Smith Road at 287/46/80, but I think any significant length of road away from an interchange would still have a number.

I did not realize that the piece of Schley Mountain Road from 202-206 to the 287 NB ramp was actually NJDOT maintained. Was that done when they took out the old ramp to 287 NB from 202-206 SB and put the slip ramp in? Also, someone should remind the Hills Village North Master Association that this road is indeed NOT Ramp Rd.

[sprjus4]

New Jersey bill would set "˜fact-based' speed limits

One New Jersey Senate bill calls for overhauling how speed limits are set on the state's busiest roadways.

Sen. Declan O'Scanlon, R-Monmouth, has renewed his pursuit to change the formula for setting speed limits. Specifically, he wants limits on limited-access highways that include the New Jersey Turnpike and Garden State Parkway to be set using the 85th percentile formula.

The formula bases speed limits on the rate at or below which 85% of drivers are traveling.

"Right now virtually 100% of drivers on our underposted limited-access highways are breaking the law,"  O'Scanlon said in previous remarks. "Either they/we are all reckless, homicidal maniacs, or our method of setting speed limits is seriously flawed."

If approved, the New Jersey Department of Transportation and other state traffic agencies would use 85th percentile studies to set speed limits. State agencies would reevaluate speed limits at least every decade, or when a road is substantially changed.

O'Scanlon says adopting the formula is a better option for setting top speeds than relying on politicians and officials to make the correct decision.

"My position is that we need to remove legislators and bureaucrats from the speed limit setting process and empower highway traffic safety engineers to do their jobs unencumbered by political influence,"  O'Scanlon has stated.

Critics say drivers face multiple distractions while behind the wheel. They voice concerns that decreased reaction times due to distractions and possible faster speeds would make wrecks more devastating.

O'Scanlon says he is not looking to change how fast people drive.

"We are talking about having speed limits reflect the speeds people are already driving so that we have a better, more uniform flow of traffic."

He adds that the change would result in "the smoothest, safest level of traffic flow and inflict the least amount of arbitrary punishment on people behaving reasonably."

Also included in the bill is a provision to limit fines for speeding violations. Citations handed out for speeding on a roadway where a traffic study has not been completed would be limited to $20.

The bill, S608, awaits consideration in the Senate Transportation Committee. O'Scanlon offered the same bill during the previous two-year session, but it did not come up for a vote.

[Tonytone]

New Jersey bill would set "˜fact-based' speed limits

One New Jersey Senate bill calls for overhauling how speed limits are set on the state's busiest roadways.

Sen. Declan O'Scanlon, R-Monmouth, has renewed his pursuit to change the formula for setting speed limits. Specifically, he wants limits on limited-access highways that include the New Jersey Turnpike and Garden State Parkway to be set using the 85th percentile formula.

The formula bases speed limits on the rate at or below which 85% of drivers are traveling.

"Right now virtually 100% of drivers on our underposted limited-access highways are breaking the law,"  O'Scanlon said in previous remarks. "Either they/we are all reckless, homicidal maniacs, or our method of setting speed limits is seriously flawed."

If approved, the New Jersey Department of Transportation and other state traffic agencies would use 85th percentile studies to set speed limits. State agencies would reevaluate speed limits at least every decade, or when a road is substantially changed.

O'Scanlon says adopting the formula is a better option for setting top speeds than relying on politicians and officials to make the correct decision.

"My position is that we need to remove legislators and bureaucrats from the speed limit setting process and empower highway traffic safety engineers to do their jobs unencumbered by political influence,"  O'Scanlon has stated.

Critics say drivers face multiple distractions while behind the wheel. They voice concerns that decreased reaction times due to distractions and possible faster speeds would make wrecks more devastating.

O'Scanlon says he is not looking to change how fast people drive.

"We are talking about having speed limits reflect the speeds people are already driving so that we have a better, more uniform flow of traffic."

He adds that the change would result in "the smoothest, safest level of traffic flow and inflict the least amount of arbitrary punishment on people behaving reasonably."

Also included in the bill is a provision to limit fines for speeding violations. Citations handed out for speeding on a roadway where a traffic study has not been completed would be limited to $20.

The bill, S608, awaits consideration in the Senate Transportation Committee. O'Scanlon offered the same bill during the previous two-year session, but it did not come up for a vote.

Woah, Nice job New Jersey. If this all goes well. This can cause this same thing to happen nationwide.


iPhone

[sprjus4]

New Jersey bill would set "˜fact-based' speed limits

One New Jersey Senate bill calls for overhauling how speed limits are set on the state's busiest roadways.

Sen. Declan O'Scanlon, R-Monmouth, has renewed his pursuit to change the formula for setting speed limits. Specifically, he wants limits on limited-access highways that include the New Jersey Turnpike and Garden State Parkway to be set using the 85th percentile formula.

The formula bases speed limits on the rate at or below which 85% of drivers are traveling.

"Right now virtually 100% of drivers on our underposted limited-access highways are breaking the law,"  O'Scanlon said in previous remarks. "Either they/we are all reckless, homicidal maniacs, or our method of setting speed limits is seriously flawed."

If approved, the New Jersey Department of Transportation and other state traffic agencies would use 85th percentile studies to set speed limits. State agencies would reevaluate speed limits at least every decade, or when a road is substantially changed.

O'Scanlon says adopting the formula is a better option for setting top speeds than relying on politicians and officials to make the correct decision.

"My position is that we need to remove legislators and bureaucrats from the speed limit setting process and empower highway traffic safety engineers to do their jobs unencumbered by political influence,"  O'Scanlon has stated.

Critics say drivers face multiple distractions while behind the wheel. They voice concerns that decreased reaction times due to distractions and possible faster speeds would make wrecks more devastating.

O'Scanlon says he is not looking to change how fast people drive.

"We are talking about having speed limits reflect the speeds people are already driving so that we have a better, more uniform flow of traffic."

He adds that the change would result in "the smoothest, safest level of traffic flow and inflict the least amount of arbitrary punishment on people behaving reasonably."

Also included in the bill is a provision to limit fines for speeding violations. Citations handed out for speeding on a roadway where a traffic study has not been completed would be limited to $20.

The bill, S608, awaits consideration in the Senate Transportation Committee. O'Scanlon offered the same bill during the previous two-year session, but it did not come up for a vote.

Woah, Nice job New Jersey. If this all goes well. This can cause this same thing to happen nationwide.

I don't travel frequently on the NJTP, but from the times I have, I can safely say it's very rare to find someone in a passenger vehicle going below 75 or 80 mph. I usually cruise around 80 mph, and get passed frequently.

I cannot say anything for the Garden State since I've never driven it, though the NJTP should be posted at least 75 mph, maybe even 80 mph. Unfortunately, this won't happen due to its location in the Northeast, but if we were setting 85th percentile speeds, this would be it.

[Roadrunner75]

New Jersey bill would set "˜fact-based' speed limits

One New Jersey Senate bill calls for overhauling how speed limits are set on the state's busiest roadways.

Sen. Declan O'Scanlon, R-Monmouth, has renewed his pursuit to change the formula for setting speed limits. Specifically, he wants limits on limited-access highways that include the New Jersey Turnpike and Garden State Parkway to be set using the 85th percentile formula...........................

Woah, Nice job New Jersey. If this all goes well. This can cause this same thing to happen nationwide.

It will never happen here - Revenue enhancement based artificially low limits are here to stay.  The Garden State Parkway just added mandatory court appearances for all speeding violations too.

O'Scanlon was however instrumental in getting rid of our red light cameras, so I appreciate his efforts.

[sprjus4]

It will never happen here - Revenue enhancement based artificially low limits are here to stay.  The Garden State Parkway just added mandatory court appearances for all speeding violations too.

O'Scanlon was however instrumental in getting rid of our red light cameras, so I appreciate his efforts.

Police traps are for safety --- until speed limits are going to get raised to what most people travel and the road is reasonable designed for --- then they cry it will be unsafe! It's nothing but revenue generation.

[Tonytone]

It will never happen here - Revenue enhancement based artificially low limits are here to stay.  The Garden State Parkway just added mandatory court appearances for all speeding violations too.

O'Scanlon was however instrumental in getting rid of our red light cameras, so I appreciate his efforts.

Police traps are for safety --- until speed limits are going to get raised to what most people travel and the road is reasonable designed for --- then they cry it will be unsafe! It's nothing but revenue generation.

Yes people do 100Mph on the NJTP it's literally designed & striped for those speeds.

And New jersey purposely puts under cover tinted out Chargers on NJTP to catch speeders when clearly everyone is going 80+ it should be illegal for them to do that.

Maybe Jersey will pass it. Maybe they wont. But I know if they do it will create good progress in the setting of speed limits. Jersey of course would be a good test state. As well as texas.


iPhone

[storm2k]

It will never happen here - Revenue enhancement based artificially low limits are here to stay.  The Garden State Parkway just added mandatory court appearances for all speeding violations too.

O'Scanlon was however instrumental in getting rid of our red light cameras, so I appreciate his efforts.

Police traps are for safety --- until speed limits are going to get raised to what most people travel and the road is reasonable designed for --- then they cry it will be unsafe! It's nothing but revenue generation.

Yes people do 100Mph on the NJTP it's literally designed & striped for those speeds.

And New jersey purposely puts under cover tinted out Chargers on NJTP to catch speeders when clearly everyone is going 80+ it should be illegal for them to do that.

Maybe Jersey will pass it. Maybe they wont. But I know if they do it will create good progress in the setting of speed limits. Jersey of course would be a good test state. As well as texas.


iPhone

They won't. Period. End of story. O'Scanlon loves to throw stuff like this out there from time to time, especially to contrast himself to the Democrats in Trenton. It's a dead issue, everyone knows it including him, that's not why he put it out there. Drop it. It. Is. Not. Happening. We could barely get the state to agree to 65MPH zones in 1998 and that was only with agreeing to double fines for those zones.

[Tonytone]

It will never happen here - Revenue enhancement based artificially low limits are here to stay.  The Garden State Parkway just added mandatory court appearances for all speeding violations too.

O'Scanlon was however instrumental in getting rid of our red light cameras, so I appreciate his efforts.

Police traps are for safety --- until speed limits are going to get raised to what most people travel and the road is reasonable designed for --- then they cry it will be unsafe! It's nothing but revenue generation.

Yes people do 100Mph on the NJTP it's literally designed & striped for those speeds.

And New jersey purposely puts under cover tinted out Chargers on NJTP to catch speeders when clearly everyone is going 80+ it should be illegal for them to do that.

Maybe Jersey will pass it. Maybe they wont. But I know if they do it will create good progress in the setting of speed limits. Jersey of course would be a good test state. As well as texas.


iPhone

They won't. Period. End of story. O'Scanlon loves to throw stuff like this out there from time to time, especially to contrast himself to the Democrats in Trenton. It's a dead issue, everyone knows it including him, that's not why he put it out there. Drop it. It. Is. Not. Happening. We could barely get the state to agree to 65MPH zones in 1998 and that was only with agreeing to double fines for those zones.

Sheesh. You're right. I forgot what state we are talking about here.

New Jersey.


iPhone

[sprjus4]

As well as texas.

Of the thousands of miles I've driven in that state, I'd say with the exception of the "green"  zone around Houston, speed limits are appropriately set in that state. Most two lane roads built to higher quality are 70 mph or 75 mph, with 60 or 65 mph on lower quality (narrower shoulders, etc), interstates are mostly 75 mph with 65 - 75 mph in urban areas, 60 mph in core zones, and over 500 miles of I-10 and I-20 are 80 mph. Additionally, the TX-130 toll bypass that completely avoids I-35 through Austin (similar to NJTP with I-95 through Philadelphia) is posted at 80 mph on its northern portion, and 85 mph on the southern portion.

The only thing I could say is there's certainly dozens of more stretches of rural interstate highway that could be 80 mph, and also that the "green"  zones near Houston need to go and are unrealistic. I-10, I-45, I-69, and US-290 remain 65 mph for dozens of miles outside the metro, and interstates inside only reach 60 mph, toll roads 65 mph, and the SH-99 loop 70 mph. Dallas had a similar system, but was eliminated years ago. Interstates are mostly 70 mph in the urban area with 60 mph near the Downtowns and 65 mph on some stretches.

[Mr. Matté]

Don't know why that's popping up now but that bill dated back to 2018 and it went nowhere.

[Plutonic Panda]

That's a shame that bill wasn't passed. California has something similar but as expected liberal lawmakers are trying to do away with that law and they are even calling it backwards.

[jeffandnicole]

I don't travel frequently on the NJTP, but from the times I have, I can safely say it's very rare to find someone in a passenger vehicle going below 75 or 80 mph. I usually cruise around 80 mph, and get passed frequently.

Happens more often than you realize.  While you probably focus on those going faster than you when you're already going 80, you are probably passing plenty of people going slower than you.  I've slowed down my speed somewhat, usually topping out at 75 mph, and I'm still passing a lot of people.

Remember also, the 85th percentage is the speed at when 85% are going at or below that speed.  If the minimum speed most people were traveling was 75 or 80 mph, that would make the 85th percentile closer to 85 or 90, which even on a road as fast as the Turnpike or Parkway, isn't realistic across the entire roadway. 

There are a few areas where the 85th percentile does approach 85 mph or so, which considering how heavily travelled the Turnpike and Parkway are, shows how little enforcement truly occurs, which means opinions like the below aren't true.

It will never happen here - Revenue enhancement based artificially low limits are here to stay.  The Garden State Parkway just added mandatory court appearances for all speeding violations too.

That was a scare-tactic sign on the GSP.  The GSP, part of the overall NJTA, can't unilaterally change rules on how speeding tickets violations work.  and if you want to continue the beat of 'Revenue enhancement', it wouldn't make sense.  Courts aren't holding court right now, so if there was a mandatory court appearance, that appearance wouldn't be held for many months, meaning the state would be missing out on that money for quite a while.  The courts would be overloaded with people getting tickets, which goes against social distancing guidelines. The majority of the ticket revenue from any ticket goes to the state, not the Parkway; not even the town if it's a municipal ticket.  And being that it's nearly impossible to get stopped for going within 15 mph of the limit on a highway, that also goes against revenue enhancement, as it would be more profitable to stop nearly everyone regardless of their speed.[/quote]

They won't. Period. End of story. O'Scanlon loves to throw stuff like this out there from time to time, especially to contrast himself to the Democrats in Trenton. It's a dead issue, everyone knows it including him, that's not why he put it out there. Drop it. It. Is. Not. Happening.

I pretty much agree with this.  If he left the bill to "raise highways to 85th percentile speeds", it may have a better change of succeeding...or at least being heard.  Considering there's been many recent bills that passed that gave municipalities more rights and leeway into how they can change speed limits without going thru Trenton, this bill would throw away those leeways, which ain't gonna happen.

We could barely get the state to agree to 65MPH zones in 1998 and that was only with agreeing to double fines for those zones.

At least it's doubling fines for those going 10mph and more over the limit, which has helped actually provide cops with the ability to reduce violations to 9 over, saving people money.  I which I had more concrete evidence on this, but I wouldn't be surprised if the most common speeding violation motorists are actually written up for was for going 74 in a 65 zone, which is one of the lower cost speeding violations in the country (about $85 or so, I believe).

[sprjus4]

Happens more often than you realize.  While you probably focus on those going faster than you when you're already going 80, you are probably passing plenty of people going slower than you.  I've slowed down my speed somewhat, usually topping out at 75 mph, and I'm still passing a lot of people.

I suppose that's a fair assessment. And that's the main concern - those doing around the artificial speed limit (65 - 70 mph) not wanting to risk the sole chance of a ticket vs. those driving an appropriate speed (75 - 80 mph) for the roadway. If an appropriate speed limit such as realistically 70 mph, preferably 75 mph or even 80 mph was set, the difference would be minimal. People wouldn't drive 90 or 100 mph like some advocates think raising limits does. This has been proven on other rural highway stretches that are posted at 80 mph or the one 85 mph stretch in Texas. I can agree with that, I've driven on those 80 mph and 85 mph stretches, and people rarely do above 85 mph or 90 mph on the 85 mph stretch - because the speed limit is posted appropriately.

Meanwhile, go into Houston where the speed limit is artificially 60 mph due to their "green" zone, and most people easily do 70 - 80 mph. Speed limit used to be 70 mph IIRC in those areas.

[Roadrunner75]

It will never happen here - Revenue enhancement based artificially low limits are here to stay.  The Garden State Parkway just added mandatory court appearances for all speeding violations too.

That was a scare-tactic sign on the GSP.  The GSP, part of the overall NJTA, can't unilaterally change rules on how speeding tickets violations work.  and if you want to continue the beat of 'Revenue enhancement', it wouldn't make sense.  Courts aren't holding court right now, so if there was a mandatory court appearance, that appearance wouldn't be held for many months, meaning the state would be missing out on that money for quite a while.  The courts would be overloaded with people getting tickets, which goes against social distancing guidelines. The majority of the ticket revenue from any ticket goes to the state, not the Parkway; not even the town if it's a municipal ticket.  And being that it's nearly impossible to get stopped for going within 15 mph of the limit on a highway, that also goes against revenue enhancement, as it would be more profitable to stop nearly everyone regardless of their speed.

Regardless of how much revenue is actually enhanced (at least on the freeways this bill is intended for), that thought will definitely cross the legislature's and governor's mind and the perception of that will be an important reason it well get shot down, even if they only claim it's for safety.  The NJSP definitely do give alot of buffer above the speed limit depending on the road although not equally to the conditions - From personal experience, above 80 is the cut-off on the southern GSP, while the buffer on the equally rural 195 is lower with more police presence.  Although I don't think the NJSP abuse it (at least on the GSP which I use the most often), the low speed limit does give them the ability to cite almost everyone on the highway if they chose to do so. 

There's very little information out there (other than the signs) on the mandatory court appearances on the GSP.  I had read an article about a change in policy, but I don't know how much discretion the troopers have in checking that box for a speeding ticket alone (unless they added in reckless driving, etc.).  There's certainly a scare tactic element, because the NJSP don't want to be face to face with you in the current conditions anymore than you would want that at any time.  But they may be more likely now to not cut breaks and drop the charge below that check box level if you force them into pulling you over and creating that interaction...

[Tonytone]

As well as texas.

Of the thousands of miles I've driven in that state, I'd say with the exception of the "green"  zone around Houston, speed limits are appropriately set in that state. Most two lane roads built to higher quality are 70 mph or 75 mph, with 60 or 65 mph on lower quality (narrower shoulders, etc), interstates are mostly 75 mph with 65 - 75 mph in urban areas, 60 mph in core zones, and over 500 miles of I-10 and I-20 are 80 mph. Additionally, the TX-130 toll bypass that completely avoids I-35 through Austin (similar to NJTP with I-95 through Philadelphia) is posted at 80 mph on its northern portion, and 85 mph on the southern portion.

The only thing I could say is there's certainly dozens of more stretches of rural interstate highway that could be 80 mph, and also that the "green"  zones near Houston need to go and are unrealistic. I-10, I-45, I-69, and US-290 remain 65 mph for dozens of miles outside the metro, and interstates inside only reach 60 mph, toll roads 65 mph, and the SH-99 loop 70 mph. Dallas had a similar system, but was eliminated years ago. Interstates are mostly 70 mph in the urban area with 60 mph near the Downtowns and 65 mph on some stretches.

Are you saying that Texas is the only state with correctly signed speed limits on their roads.

(I do know that Texas is relatively flat so that helps as well)


iPhone

[sprjus4]

Are you saying that Texas is the only state with correctly signed speed limits on their roads.

(I do know that Texas is relatively flat so that helps as well)

As far as urban areas and non-freeway roads go, from my experience, generally yes. Other western states may also have higher, more appropriate limits like Texas, but I've never personally driven them so cannot say. Texas is one of only a few states to allow 75 mph on non-limited-access divided highways, and IIRC the only state to allow 75 mph on two-lane roadways. I rarely find myself going more than 3 or 5 mph over the limit when driving there, whereas I may go somewhere else with artificial limits and easily go 10 or more over (like NJTP).

Even in the more mountainous terrains of Texas (they do exist), speed limits of up to 65 mph are used on two-lane roads.