Notification when a post is deleted

[hbelkins]

My comment on the Calipari/Pope situation appears to have been deleted.

If a post gets deleted, it would be nice for the guilty moderator to drop a private note to the person whose post got deleted telling them so, and why.

This isn't the first time that I've had a post deleted with no explanation.

If the almighty moderators here are going to exercise their absolute power to delete on-topic posts, they should at least have the decency to explain that decision, at least privately to the person whose post got deleted.

[hotdogPi]

I think the correct solution is to restore the post, and if needed (I would personally leave it as-is), have just the small portion that mentioned kneeling for the flag removed.

[J N Winkler]

My comment on the Calipari/Pope situation appears to have been deleted.

If a post gets deleted, it would be nice for the guilty moderator to drop a private note to the person whose post got deleted telling them so, and why.

This isn't the first time that I've had a post deleted with no explanation.

If the almighty moderators here are going to exercise their absolute power to delete on-topic posts, they should at least have the decency to explain that decision, at least privately to the person whose post got deleted.

I am the "guilty moderator" in question.  I moved the post out of sight since we had received a report alleging (correctly) that the reference to kneeling for the flag was unacceptably political.

I am happy to restore it with that part removed, or to send you the entire text via PM so you can repost without it.

Although we moderators and admins occasionally edit individual posts, we more often do so to repair broken links or quoting mistakes than to remove snippets of text that do not comply with the forum guidelines.  Generally, if a post appears next to your avatar, other forum members should be able to assume all of the text within is yours unless specifically noted otherwise.  Thus, a post that is edited with a purple note indicating verbiage has been removed can have the not necessarily desirable effect of calling even more attention to the original breach.  For this reason, we tend not to go into an individual post unless it has already been quoted downthread as part of constructive discussion.

[Max Rockatansky]

There has been plenty of my more "sarcastic or direct" posts over the years that have been wiped or hidden from view.  Thing is, I generally had a good idea why they were removed/hidden and never really thought an explanation was necessary. 

[hbelkins]

I am happy to restore it with that part removed, or to send you the entire text via PM so you can repost without it.

Please do this.

[jeffandnicole]

There has been plenty of my more "sarcastic or direct" posts over the years that have been wiped or hidden from view.  Thing is, I generally had a good idea why they were removed/hidden and never really thought an explanation was necessary. 

I'm sure this applies here too, but hey, why waste the ability to make a public argument about it.

[Molandfreak]

Some direct communication following a report (or at least a follow up for the more egregious comments) would be nice, too. I wasn't really considering the viewpoints of others when I made all that fuss about that lobotomy comment, as it is a very personal issue to me--I had family members who were victims of asylum atrocities. At the time, I just thought the admin team didn't care enough to directly deal with the issue and preferred to just sweep it under the rug, but hearing what others had to say made me realize I made a mistake. Something like "we deleted the comment, but I don't think this violates the rules in a manner that would demand any further action" would also have let me see this point of view.

[webny99]

I do agree it would be nice to be notified of "deleted" posts.  If a large number of posts are removed, a single moderator note in the thread is sufficient, but if a single post is removed, IMO it is unfair not to give that user an explanation.

I think part of the problem is that from an admin perspective, removed posts are often not actually deleted, but just removed from public view. Despite this, it's usually a permanent action, so it's understandable for affected users to view it the same as a full deletion (and thus, be more likely to take offense to it), while the admin team views it more as just part of their internal processes without fully realizing how drastic the measure seems to other users.

[Max Rockatansky]

You guys expect way too much diplomacy out of these forums and road groups. 

[JayhawkCO]

...while the admin team views it more as just part of their internal processes without fully realizing how drastic the measure seems to other users.

Not trying to be insulting to anyone, but the term "drastic" seems a bit hyperbolic. It's a forum where we talk about nerdy things. If a post gets deleted (and I've had several over the years), it has almost zero effect on my life. The only effect that it has is to make me reconsider any post that I make that rides the line of being against TOS. I'm certainly not going to lose sleep.

[webny99]

...while the admin team views it more as just part of their internal processes without fully realizing how drastic the measure seems to other users.

Not trying to be insulting to anyone, but the term "drastic" seems a bit hyperbolic. It's a forum where we talk about nerdy things. If a post gets deleted (and I've had several over the years), it has almost zero effect on my life. The only effect that it has is to make me reconsider any post that I make that rides the line of being against TOS. I'm certainly not going to lose sleep.

This forum's user base is also more technically minded and prone to overthinking things than the population at large, so it's probably fair to say that you are more chill about it than many users (to your credit, of course). I'm not saying I would have an issue if one of my posts was deleted now, since I'm a lot more cognizant of what's acceptable now than I used to be, but in the first few years after I joined, that kind of thing could have easily led me to fly off the handle.

My point being that moderators communicating their actions is an integral part of maintaining a healthy relationship with the rest of the user base, and if things aren't communicated, we'll continue to get occasional confused/frustrated users and occasional threads like this one with the same old moderation talking points, and that shouldn't surprise anyone either.

[Max Rockatansky]

...while the admin team views it more as just part of their internal processes without fully realizing how drastic the measure seems to other users.

Not trying to be insulting to anyone, but the term "drastic" seems a bit hyperbolic. It's a forum where we talk about nerdy things. If a post gets deleted (and I've had several over the years), it has almost zero effect on my life. The only effect that it has is to make me reconsider any post that I make that rides the line of being against TOS. I'm certainly not going to lose sleep.

This forum's user base is also more technically minded and prone to overthinking things than the population at large, so it's probably fair to say that you are more chill about it than many users (to your credit, of course). I'm not saying I would have an issue if one of my posts was deleted now, since I'm a lot more cognizant of what's acceptable now than I used to be, but in the first few years after I joined, that kind of thing could have easily led me to fly off the handle.

My point being that moderators communicating their actions is an integral part of maintaining a healthy relationship with the rest of the user base, and if things aren't communicated, we'll continue to get occasional confused/frustrated users and occasional threads like this one with the same old moderation talking points, and that shouldn't surprise anyone either.

Dude, you wouldn't like things off forum with road groups on other platforms.  I have zero qualms about deleting and blocking people in groups I manage if the situation warrants it.  Do you think that I (or others like me) often bother giving explanations in those instances? 

On here, you have to do a whole lot to get any kind of discipline from a moderator.  The worst tends to be something just gets deleted or hidden.  It is like I said though, most of know why our posts get deleted.  Why waste everyone's time demanding rhetorical answers?

[jeffandnicole]

...while the admin team views it more as just part of their internal processes without fully realizing how drastic the measure seems to other users.

Not trying to be insulting to anyone, but the term "drastic" seems a bit hyperbolic. It's a forum where we talk about nerdy things. If a post gets deleted (and I've had several over the years), it has almost zero effect on my life. The only effect that it has is to make me reconsider any post that I make that rides the line of being against TOS. I'm certainly not going to lose sleep.

This forum's user base is also more technically minded and prone to overthinking things than the population at large, so it's probably fair to say that you are more chill about it than many users (to your credit, of course). I'm not saying I would have an issue if one of my posts was deleted now, since I'm a lot more cognizant of what's acceptable now than I used to be, but in the first few years after I joined, that kind of thing could have easily led me to fly off the handle.

My point being that moderators communicating their actions is an integral part of maintaining a healthy relationship with the rest of the user base, and if things aren't communicated, we'll continue to get occasional confused/frustrated users and occasional threads like this one with the same old moderation talking points, and that shouldn't surprise anyone either.

Dude, you wouldn't like things off forum with road groups on other platforms.  I have zero qualms about deleting and blocking people in groups I manage if the situation warrants it.  Do you think that I (or others like me) often bother giving explanations in those instances? 

On here, you have to do a whole lot to get any kind of discipline from a moderator.  The worst tends to be something just gets deleted or hidden.  It is like I said though, most of know why our posts get deleted.  Why waste everyone's time demanding rhetorical answers?

And if responses were given, then it becomes a "why me" back and forth, along with citing one-off examples.
 "But on June 23 2019 someone posted nearly the same thing and didn't get blocked.

The people know what they wrote, and they know it probably crossed a line. They don't need explanations unless there was an unusual reason 

[hotdogPi]

I think the post that is the reason why this thread exists didn't violate any rules. There was an offhand mention by hbelkins where he said he didn't like a specific sports player because he knelt during the national anthem. It was just an offhand mention without any elaboration or dwelling on it, and there was nothing offensive in the post itself (no derogatory nicknames, "idiot", etc.)

[Max Rockatansky]

...while the admin team views it more as just part of their internal processes without fully realizing how drastic the measure seems to other users.

Not trying to be insulting to anyone, but the term "drastic" seems a bit hyperbolic. It's a forum where we talk about nerdy things. If a post gets deleted (and I've had several over the years), it has almost zero effect on my life. The only effect that it has is to make me reconsider any post that I make that rides the line of being against TOS. I'm certainly not going to lose sleep.

This forum's user base is also more technically minded and prone to overthinking things than the population at large, so it's probably fair to say that you are more chill about it than many users (to your credit, of course). I'm not saying I would have an issue if one of my posts was deleted now, since I'm a lot more cognizant of what's acceptable now than I used to be, but in the first few years after I joined, that kind of thing could have easily led me to fly off the handle.

My point being that moderators communicating their actions is an integral part of maintaining a healthy relationship with the rest of the user base, and if things aren't communicated, we'll continue to get occasional confused/frustrated users and occasional threads like this one with the same old moderation talking points, and that shouldn't surprise anyone either.

Dude, you wouldn't like things off forum with road groups on other platforms.  I have zero qualms about deleting and blocking people in groups I manage if the situation warrants it.  Do you think that I (or others like me) often bother giving explanations in those instances? 

On here, you have to do a whole lot to get any kind of discipline from a moderator.  The worst tends to be something just gets deleted or hidden.  It is like I said though, most of know why our posts get deleted.  Why waste everyone's time demanding rhetorical answers?

And if responses were given, then it becomes a "why me" back and forth, along with citing one-off examples.
 "But on June 23 2019 someone posted nearly the same thing and didn't get blocked.

The people know what they wrote, and they know it probably crossed a line. They don't need explanations unless there was an unusual reason 

A great example of this was when one of our other page admins was posting updates about the Key Bridge collapse on GN Facebook page .  There was four different kinds of "terrorism plots" cited by various posters.  Not a single one of those people followed the GN page nor was in any of our groups.  I ended up blocking all of them and deleting their posts. 

Had one of those posts come from a page follower or group member I still would have deleted them.  I possibly would have also blocked them depending on how absurd the claims were.  Either way, none of it was worth giving out explanations for any of the post deletions.

[webny99]

Dude, you wouldn't like things off forum with road groups on other platforms.  I have zero qualms about deleting and blocking people in groups I manage if the situation warrants it.  Do you think that I (or others like me) often bother giving explanations in those instances? 

On here, you have to do a whole lot to get any kind of discipline from a moderator.  The worst tends to be something just gets deleted or hidden.  It is like I said though, most of know why our posts get deleted.  Why waste everyone's time demanding rhetorical answers?

And if responses were given, then it becomes a "why me" back and forth, along with citing one-off examples.
 "But on June 23 2019 someone posted nearly the same thing and didn't get blocked.

The people know what they wrote, and they know it probably crossed a line. They don't need explanations unless there was an unusual reason 

I was talking about notifications for deleted/removed content, not necessarily explanations. There's a difference - notifications could be as quick and easy as a PM stating "your post in thread x was removed for violating rule y" and that's the end of it.

This forum is also somewhat niche and has a strong sense of community relative to other forums - people generally don't spend time here unless they have a real interest in roads/transportation. Notice how every "troll" becomes a massive story here, while plenty of bigger forums (think city-data) could be dealing with a handful of trolls at once and no one would even blink.

[webny99]

I think the post that is the reason why this thread exists didn't violate any rules. There was an offhand mention by hbelkins where he said he didn't like a specific sports player because he knelt during the national anthem. It was just an offhand mention without any elaboration or dwelling on it, and there was nothing offensive in the post itself (no derogatory nicknames, "idiot", etc.)

I agree that posts should not be "removed" if they aren't in clear violation of one or more forum rules.

[Max Rockatansky]

Dude, you wouldn't like things off forum with road groups on other platforms.  I have zero qualms about deleting and blocking people in groups I manage if the situation warrants it.  Do you think that I (or others like me) often bother giving explanations in those instances? 

On here, you have to do a whole lot to get any kind of discipline from a moderator.  The worst tends to be something just gets deleted or hidden.  It is like I said though, most of know why our posts get deleted.  Why waste everyone's time demanding rhetorical answers?

And if responses were given, then it becomes a "why me" back and forth, along with citing one-off examples.
 "But on June 23 2019 someone posted nearly the same thing and didn't get blocked.

The people know what they wrote, and they know it probably crossed a line. They don't need explanations unless there was an unusual reason 

I was talking about notifications for deleted/removed content, not necessarily explanations. There's a difference - notifications could be as quick and easy as a PM stating "your post in thread x was removed for violating rule y" and that's the end of it.

This forum is also somewhat niche and has a strong sense of community relative to other forums - people generally don't spend time here unless they have a real interest in roads/transportation. Notice how every "troll" becomes a massive story here, while plenty of bigger forums (think city-data) could be dealing with a handful of trolls at once and no one would even blink.

Think back to the days of posters like MMM, tolbs, P13 and Cra_sHit/Barf/Lord Carhorn.  Where is the practicality in notifying potentially dozens of forum members when numerous pages of a thread and/or entire threads are wiped out?

I suspect the post that initiated this thread at the end of the day doesn't have an unknown rationale to it.  Equally so, most like posts that end up deleted probably do not require explanation as they can be easily deduced. 

[webny99]

^ See below regarding mass deletions.

If a large number of posts are removed, a single moderator note in the thread is sufficient, but if a single post is removed, IMO it is unfair not to give that user an explanation.

Also, even if the reason is obvious 99% of the time, it's still helpful to the user to at least know it happened so that (a) they aren't confused if/when they discover the missing post themselves, and (b) they can learn from the experience and better understand the rules for future reference. Of course all of this presumes the user is not a troll, but I think the mods here know a troll when they see one pretty quickly.

[Max Rockatansky]

^ See below regarding mass deletions.

If a large number of posts are removed, a single moderator note in the thread is sufficient, but if a single post is removed, IMO it is unfair not to give that user an explanation.

Also, even if the reason is obvious 99% of the time, it's still helpful to the user to at least know it happened so that (a) they aren't confused if/when they discover the missing post themselves, and (b) they can learn from the experience and better understand the rules for future reference. Of course all of this presumes the user is not a troll, but I think the mods here know a troll when they see one pretty quickly.

^ See below regarding mass deletions.

If a large number of posts are removed, a single moderator note in the thread is sufficient, but if a single post is removed, IMO it is unfair not to give that user an explanation.

Also, even if the reason is obvious 99% of the time, it's still helpful to the user to at least know it happened so that (a) they aren't confused if/when they discover the missing post themselves, and (b) they can learn from the experience and better understand the rules for future reference. Of course all of this presumes the user is not a troll, but I think the mods here know a troll when they see one pretty quickly.

You do realize the moderators on this forum have lives outside of it?  If someone is auditing their posts that closely they probably need to re-examine their life priorities. 

I'm not getting why you want all these extra layers of bureaucracy and why you think it will enhance your user experience.  If anything this hobby in general is way too full of bureaucracy as is. 

[webny99]

For the amount of one-off posts that really get deleted on here, we've already wasted more collective time in this thread than it would have taken to send a quick notification to users whose one-off posts are deleted in this forum's entire lifetime.

The reason I am lobbying for notifications of deleted posts, is so that we don't have to have this exact thread six months from now, and again twelve months from now, and again and again and again and re-hash the same stupid talking points when a MINIMAL 15-20 seconds per occurrence improvement in communication would solve 100% of the issues and eliminate 100% of threads like this one.

[Max Rockatansky]

I'm fairly certain given the OP is HB that this thread probably will not be repeated in the same form by another user.  The way I'm to understand it is that HB would prefer the forum be more similar to the un-moderated days of MTR. 

None of this is as a global issue as you seem to think it is.  Why create more work for moderators when it isn't necessary?  How were you really affected by anything discussed in this thread until now?

[webny99]

None of this is as a global issue as you seem to think it is.  Why create more work for moderators when it isn't necessary?  How were you really affected by anything discussed in this thread until now?

You're just egging me on now, if you are concerned about time waste I don't see any point in continuing this discussion. My opinion has been stated, it is on the moderators at this point to decide if anything will become of it or not.

[Max Rockatansky]

None of this is as a global issue as you seem to think it is.  Why create more work for moderators when it isn't necessary?  How were you really affected by anything discussed in this thread until now?

You're just egging me on now, if you are concerned about time waste I don't see any point in continuing this discussion. My opinion has been stated, it is on the moderators at this point to decide if anything will become of it or not.

Oh whatever, the problem is you are the only one who isn't seeing the game behind the scenes with why this thread was created.  Jeff hit on it way earlier in the thread, but you didn't pick up on it.  I guess that I need to spell it out overly for you. 

[vdeane]

The reason I am lobbying for notifications of deleted posts, is so that we don't have to have this exact thread six months from now, and again twelve months from now, and again and again and again and re-hash the same stupid talking points when a MINIMAL 15-20 seconds per occurrence improvement in communication would solve 100% of the issues and eliminate 100% of threads like this one.

Given that the majority of these threads are started by one user, motivated by said user's desire for less moderation, I don't think it would have quite the same effect you're expecting.