Sears-Kmart Death Watch

[Flint1979]

When I was in Richmond, Indiana I saw this and thought it was cool. Sebastian Kresge must be rolling  over in his grave.

[wxfree]

The Sears catalogue model was the low-tech spitting image of what the Amazon model became. All Sears had to do was transfer it to online in the 1990s and they might be at least holding their own against Walmart today.

Had they kept the catalog just 3 more years they could have made a seamless (for the time) transition. 1992 was the last year of the Big Book.

They essentially did try with Prodigy Online.  It was WAY too soon for online retail to be viable and it flopped.  Sears and IBM pulled their money out of Prodigy Online in 1997.

I think it was 1993 when Sears discontinued the catalog. And it was only 4 years later when they launched Sears.com on the WWW. Bad timing to say the least.

Yes, the downfall of Sears is inexcusable. Even with all the blunders they had made in the 80s/90s, they could have been resurrected in the last 15-20 years to become something like what Target has become for instance, but Eddie Lampert and to some extent, Alan Lacy (the last CEO before Eddie bought them) ran them into the ground.

I still think Walmart and Amazon would have surpassed Sears even if they had successfully reinvented themselves and moved their catalog business online, but at least Sears would be a solid #3 and a decent quality alternative to the Amazon/Walmart duopoly.

Oh man!  The catalog used to be great! As a kid growing up in the 80s, it was a right of passage around Christmas each year to go through and circle 90 percent of the toys and video games featured!

JC Penny had a big one they put out at the holidays too.  Speaking of....is it too soon to bring THAT store into this conversation?

In my childhood, JC Penney was an anchor store at my local mall.  I remember in the 90s for a while they tried to upgrade their image by changing the name tags of their employees from "Kathy" to "Mrs. Smith."  I'm a very downmarket shopper.  I buy most of my clothes at Walmart.  The only reason I don't buy my shoes there is because I walk a lot and their shoes suck.  That said, I was never impressed with JC Penney stores.  They're maybe a whole step above Walmart, but only because their stores have more carpet.  That store always struck me as cheap but uppity.  I'd rather just go cheap and forget the fake image.  My name for JC Penney is "The Pretentious Hillbilly."

[I-39]

I except they'll go away eventually as well, their business fundamentals are still terrible. Them and Kohls don't really serve a purpose anymore. Too pricy to compete with Walmart/Target/Amazon and not nice enough to compare with Nordstrom/Bloomingdales and even Macy's to some extent.

So where will those of us still in the middle class, who want something better quality than WalMart/Target but not as expensive as Nordstrom/etc. and who don't stop online, go for clothes?  Do WalMart and Target even have office attire?

That's a great question, and a loaded one at that. The mid-priced department store is clearly struggling and the future remains bleak. Most people are just content with Amazon/Walmart/Target for everything I guess.

[Rothman]

I except they'll go away eventually as well, their business fundamentals are still terrible. Them and Kohls don't really serve a purpose anymore. Too pricy to compete with Walmart/Target/Amazon and not nice enough to compare with Nordstrom/Bloomingdales and even Macy's to some extent.

So where will those of us still in the middle class, who want something better quality than WalMart/Target but not as expensive as Nordstrom/etc. and who don't stop online, go for clothes?  Do WalMart and Target even have office attire?

That's a great question, and a loaded one at that. The mid-priced department store is clearly struggling and the future remains bleak. Most people are just content with Amazon/Walmart/Target for everything I guess.

For white collar people: I don't think Walmart or Target sell men's dress shirts in their stores.  Amazon has definitely cut into the other stores' markets, however.

[SectorZ]

I except they'll go away eventually as well, their business fundamentals are still terrible. Them and Kohls don't really serve a purpose anymore. Too pricy to compete with Walmart/Target/Amazon and not nice enough to compare with Nordstrom/Bloomingdales and even Macy's to some extent.

So where will those of us still in the middle class, who want something better quality than WalMart/Target but not as expensive as Nordstrom/etc. and who don't stop online, go for clothes?  Do WalMart and Target even have office attire?

That's a great question, and a loaded one at that. The mid-priced department store is clearly struggling and the future remains bleak. Most people are just content with Amazon/Walmart/Target for everything I guess.

For white collar people: I don't think Walmart or Target sell men's dress shirts in their stores.  Amazon has definitely cut into the other stores' markets, however.

Per Target's website, there are 188 dress shirt options in the store closest to me. Walmart, 7. When I worked at Walmart in the late 90's there was a very tiny section of dress shirts.

[thenetwork]

The Sears catalogue model was the low-tech spitting image of what the Amazon model became. All Sears had to do was transfer it to online in the 1990s and they might be at least holding their own against Walmart today.

Had they kept the catalog just 3 more years they could have made a seamless (for the time) transition. 1992 was the last year of the Big Book.

They essentially did try with Prodigy Online.  It was WAY too soon for online retail to be viable and it flopped.  Sears and IBM pulled their money out of Prodigy Online in 1997.

I think it was 1993 when Sears discontinued the catalog. And it was only 4 years later when they launched Sears.com on the WWW. Bad timing to say the least.

Yes, the downfall of Sears is inexcusable. Even with all the blunders they had made in the 80s/90s, they could have been resurrected in the last 15-20 years to become something like what Target has become for instance, but Eddie Lampert and to some extent, Alan Lacy (the last CEO before Eddie bought them) ran them into the ground.

I still think Walmart and Amazon would have surpassed Sears even if they had successfully reinvented themselves and moved their catalog business online, but at least Sears would be a solid #3 and a decent quality alternative to the Amazon/Walmart duopoly.

Oh man!  The catalog used to be great! As a kid growing up in the 80s, it was a right of passage around Christmas each year to go through and circle 90 percent of the toys and video games featured!

JC Penny had a big one they put out at the holidays too.  Speaking of....is it too soon to bring THAT store into this conversation?

In my childhood, JC Penney was an anchor store at my local mall.  I remember in the 90s for a while they tried to upgrade their image by changing the name tags of their employees from "Kathy" to "Mrs. Smith."  I'm a very downmarket shopper.  I buy most of my clothes at Walmart.  The only reason I don't buy my shoes there is because I walk a lot and their shoes suck.  That said, I was never impressed with JC Penney stores.  They're maybe a whole step above Walmart, but only because their stores have more carpet.  That store always struck me as cheap but uppity.  I'd rather just go cheap and forget the fake image.  My name for JC Penney is "The Pretentious Hillbilly."

I always thought JCP was slow in remodeling their stores.  Their black and blue P logo and associated color schemes in the store from the 60s was outdated by the 80s yet was still used well into the 90s.

Then in the 70s, they switched to their most familiar JCPenney font and went to the warm brown/yellow/orange colors which were the rage at the time.  Much of that was still prevalent into the 00's in many of the stores.

Store atmospheres are like the fashions you're selling -- if you don't keep up with the times, you will quickly lose your core demos.

[RobbieL2415]

Upscale department stores -- Bloomingdales, Neiman Marcus, Nordstrom, etc. -- have a much better chance at survival if they close locations not in major cities and focus on their wealthy core demographic. They key for them will be keeping their long-term debt low and the retirement of full time store employees who have legacy pension plans. That was a big problem with SHC; they had hundreds of millions of dollars in pensions to pay out and it was eating away at their ability cover expenses.

Quasi-upscale department stores -- Penny's, Kohl's, Macy's, etc., are in a more difficult position. Their softlines products aren't exactly "designer" and are probably made in the same factory as the clothing products of big box retailers and Amazon, and their hardlines products can often be had for cheaper elsewhere, especially online. So, for the average consumer, there's little incentive to set foot in these stores.

[hotdogPi]

I've boycotted Walmart because of the way they treat their employees.

[Flint1979]

I try to avoid Walmart if I can. If there is a Meijer store in the area I will go to Meijer before Walmart.

[Max Rockatansky]

I've boycotted Walmart because of the way they treat their employees.

I don't "boycot"  per se, but I don't like the prison-like atmosphere most Walmart's have now.  I don't like having to go through a security turnstile, have a spider wrap on my hand basket and "receipt checks"  for everything.

[OCGuy81]

I've boycotted Walmart because of the way they treat their employees.

I don't "boycot"  per se, but I don't like the prison-like atmosphere most Walmart's have now.  I don't like having to go through a security turnstile, have a spider wrap on my hand basket and "receipt checks"  for everything.

I was in one recently that had installed the turnstiles.  I hadn't been in one for well over a year, so I was a bit surprised by that.

I didn't have my receipt checked, but that doesn't bother me too much.  Costco has conditioned me to do that.

Spider wrap on the hand basket?  I haven't seen that before.

[Max Rockatansky]

I've boycotted Walmart because of the way they treat their employees.

I don't "boycot"  per se, but I don't like the prison-like atmosphere most Walmart's have now.  I don't like having to go through a security turnstile, have a spider wrap on my hand basket and "receipt checks"  for everything.

I was in one recently that had installed the turnstiles.  I hadn't been in one for well over a year, so I was a bit surprised by that.

I didn't have my receipt checked, but that doesn't bother me too much.  Costco has conditioned me to do that.

Spider wrap on the hand basket?  I haven't seen that before.

The thing with receipt checks at Costco is that is a well known part of your membership agreement.  That's fine at Costco because I signed up for it, I didn't sign up for a receipt check at Walmart when I buy a Mountain Dew at self checkout.  To me it's just security theater which Walmart put in place for it's otherwise lackluster sales floor standards and lack of customer service. 

Apparently the Spider Wraps on hand basket phenomenon is common in certain Walmart regions.  Apparently some areas had enough of them stolen to justify a 2/3 Alarm Alpha Spider Wrap (when I last checked was $4-6 dollars a unit) affixed to each hand basket.  Things like that just more or less speak to the poor controls Walmart has in place above.  I rather just shop somewhere else even if it cost a little bit more. 

[OCGuy81]

I've boycotted Walmart because of the way they treat their employees.

I don't "boycot"  per se, but I don't like the prison-like atmosphere most Walmart's have now.  I don't like having to go through a security turnstile, have a spider wrap on my hand basket and "receipt checks"  for everything.

I was in one recently that had installed the turnstiles.  I hadn't been in one for well over a year, so I was a bit surprised by that.

I didn't have my receipt checked, but that doesn't bother me too much.  Costco has conditioned me to do that.

Spider wrap on the hand basket?  I haven't seen that before.

The thing with receipt checks at Costco is that is a well known part of your membership agreement.  That's fine at Costco because I signed up for it, I didn't sign up for a receipt check at Walmart when I buy a Mountain Dew at self checkout.  To me it's just security theater which Walmart put in place for it's otherwise lackluster sales floor standards and lack of customer service. 

Apparently the Spider Wraps on hand basket phenomenon is common in certain Walmart regions.  Apparently some areas had enough of them stolen to justify a 2/3 Alarm Alpha Spider Wrap (when I last checked was $4-6 dollars a unit) affixed to each hand basket.  Things like that just more or less speak to the poor controls Walmart has in place above.  I rather just shop somewhere else even if it cost a little bit more. 

That's a valid reason to avoid Walmart.

I'd say another big difference with receipts between Costco and Walmart is Costco actually seems to look at the receipt and your basket.  Not too thorough, but they at least look.

Walmart you could probably flash a year old receipt for some gummi bears and walk out with god know what. 

[Scott5114]

My final straw with Walmart was when they installed a bunch of surveillance cameras with a screen attached that make a loud, obnoxious "CHING!" noise whenever they detect movement, to try to get you to look at the screen and see that you're on camera. The local Walmart put a ton of these in their makeup and beauty aisles.

Well, my wife sent me to Walmart for a makeup and beauty thing, and not wearing makeup, I didn't know exactly where it was, so I had to walk up and down the aisles looking for it. The whole time I keep passing into and out of the range of the various cameras, so I was subjected to a constant CHING! CHING! CHING! CHING! which finally got so annoying I left and told my wife to just order it on Amazon.

[vdeane]

I've boycotted Walmart because of the way they treat their employees.

I don't "boycot"  per se, but I don't like the prison-like atmosphere most Walmart's have now.  I don't like having to go through a security turnstile, have a spider wrap on my hand basket and "receipt checks"  for everything.

That's soured me on WalMart too.  What are you supposed to do if you don't find what you're looking for, buy something you don't need/might not use just so you can use a checkout and leave the store?  Ridiculous.  I was pretty much only going there for things that were out at other stores, anyways, and that's less of a problem now, so I think I just won't (especially as, if things are sold out elsewhere, there are decent odds they'll be sold out at WalMart too).

Oddly enough, even though I use JCPenney for most of my clothing needs, there is one thing I buy from WalMart - shoes.  Specifically, flats (though this may apply to boots as well, though not as strictly).  For some reason, nowhere else still around sells any that are comfortable and don't rub the back of my ankle to oblivion.  Payless was good for that too, but sadly they're online-only now.

I'll also likely be buying purses from Target from now on, as the last purse I got is from JCPenney and it isn't wearing out any slower than the two before it from Target.  If I'm going to get Target quality anyways and the selection is equivalent, may as well pay Target prices.

[Takumi]

I haven't been to a Walmart in years, and it's been even longer that I actually shopped there. Last time I went to one was to take a dump because the Wawa across the street was closed for renovation at the time.

[Max Rockatansky]

I've boycotted Walmart because of the way they treat their employees.

I don't "boycot"  per se, but I don't like the prison-like atmosphere most Walmart's have now.  I don't like having to go through a security turnstile, have a spider wrap on my hand basket and "receipt checks"  for everything.

I was in one recently that had installed the turnstiles.  I hadn't been in one for well over a year, so I was a bit surprised by that.

I didn't have my receipt checked, but that doesn't bother me too much.  Costco has conditioned me to do that.

Spider wrap on the hand basket?  I haven't seen that before.

The thing with receipt checks at Costco is that is a well known part of your membership agreement.  That's fine at Costco because I signed up for it, I didn't sign up for a receipt check at Walmart when I buy a Mountain Dew at self checkout.  To me it's just security theater which Walmart put in place for it's otherwise lackluster sales floor standards and lack of customer service. 

Apparently the Spider Wraps on hand basket phenomenon is common in certain Walmart regions.  Apparently some areas had enough of them stolen to justify a 2/3 Alarm Alpha Spider Wrap (when I last checked was $4-6 dollars a unit) affixed to each hand basket.  Things like that just more or less speak to the poor controls Walmart has in place above.  I rather just shop somewhere else even if it cost a little bit more. 

That's a valid reason to avoid Walmart.

I'd say another big difference with receipts between Costco and Walmart is Costco actually seems to look at the receipt and your basket.  Not too thorough, but they at least look.

Walmart you could probably flash a year old receipt for some gummi bears and walk out with god know what. 

At the end of the day at least there are other options that are superior to Walmart.  Given I manage LP for a military exchange I rarely step foot inside any other traditional big box retailer nowadays for anything beyond a small purchase.  My interactions with Walmart generally come from when I'm with my wife who really likes to browse clearance sections.  If anything it is my fault for continuing to fall for the promise of a free meal if I go shopping with her.

[Flint1979]

I haven't been to a Walmart in years, and it's been even longer that I actually shopped there. Last time I went to one was to take a dump because the Wawa across the street was closed for renovation at the time.

Seems like a logical reason to visit a Walmart.

[jeffandnicole]

I haven't been to a Walmart in years, and it's been even longer that I actually shopped there. Last time I went to one was to take a dump because the Wawa across the street was closed for renovation at the time.

Seems like a logical reason to visit a Walmart.

I'd dare to say Walmart's bathrooms are actually nicer than Wawas.  And much larger.

[Max Rockatansky]

I haven't been to a Walmart in years, and it's been even longer that I actually shopped there. Last time I went to one was to take a dump because the Wawa across the street was closed for renovation at the time.

Seems like a logical reason to visit a Walmart.

I'd dare to say Walmart's bathrooms are actually nicer than Wawas.  And much larger.

And a lot of Walmart's have restrooms in the back of the store which rarely get touched by customers.  Oddly Target stores tend to have nastier restrooms for some reason I've found.

[kphoger]

I've boycotted Walmart because of the way they treat their employees.

I don't boycott them, but I agree that the way they treat their employees isn't good.  I only think I've known one person who actually enjoyed working at Wal-Mart.  Everyone else has complained about their policies.  The one I heard about that I most dislike is that taking scheduled time off counts "points" against you.

The thing with receipt checks at Costco is that is a well known part of your membership agreement.  That's fine at Costco because I signed up for it, I didn't sign up for a receipt check at Walmart when I buy a Mountain Dew at self checkout.

Then don't stop when they want to check your receipt at Wal-Mart.  Just keep walking.  Didn't you use to work in security?  They're only permitted to stop you if they physically saw you shoplift.

[Max Rockatansky]

I've boycotted Walmart because of the way they treat their employees.

I don't boycott them, but I agree that the way they treat their employees isn't good.  I only think I've known one person who actually enjoyed working at Wal-Mart.  Everyone else has complained about their policies.  The one I heard about that I most dislike is that taking scheduled time off counts "points" against you.

The thing with receipt checks at Costco is that is a well known part of your membership agreement.  That's fine at Costco because I signed up for it, I didn't sign up for a receipt check at Walmart when I buy a Mountain Dew at self checkout.

Then don't stop when they want to check your receipt at Wal-Mart.  Just keep walking.  Didn't you use to work in security?  They're only permitted to stop you if they physically saw you shoplift.

Still do, I mentioned it I think in my last reply.  I don't stop at Walmart, but my wife complains at me when I ignore the greeter.

[RobbieL2415]

I've boycotted Walmart because of the way they treat their employees.

I don't boycott them, but I agree that the way they treat their employees isn't good.  I only think I've known one person who actually enjoyed working at Wal-Mart.  Everyone else has complained about their policies.  The one I heard about that I most dislike is that taking scheduled time off counts "points" against you.

The thing with receipt checks at Costco is that is a well known part of your membership agreement.  That's fine at Costco because I signed up for it, I didn't sign up for a receipt check at Walmart when I buy a Mountain Dew at self checkout.

Then don't stop when they want to check your receipt at Wal-Mart.  Just keep walking.  Didn't you use to work in security?  They're only permitted to stop you if they physically saw you shoplift.

The people checking receipts should be trained that if someone doesn't want to show theirs to just say, "have a nice day."
I believe that really is Walmart's official training protocol.

You can walk out of Costco without showing your receipt, but if they identify who you are they'll terminate your membership.

Also, just be aware that if you do refuse to show you receipt they can trespass you from the property. I've seen a couple videos where the store manger does this.

[Max Rockatansky]

I've boycotted Walmart because of the way they treat their employees.

I don't boycott them, but I agree that the way they treat their employees isn't good.  I only think I've known one person who actually enjoyed working at Wal-Mart.  Everyone else has complained about their policies.  The one I heard about that I most dislike is that taking scheduled time off counts "points" against you.

The thing with receipt checks at Costco is that is a well known part of your membership agreement.  That's fine at Costco because I signed up for it, I didn't sign up for a receipt check at Walmart when I buy a Mountain Dew at self checkout.

Then don't stop when they want to check your receipt at Wal-Mart.  Just keep walking.  Didn't you use to work in security?  They're only permitted to stop you if they physically saw you shoplift.

The people checking receipts should be trained that if someone doesn't want to show theirs to just say, "have a nice day."
I believe that really is Walmart's official training protocol.

You can walk out of Costco without showing your receipt, but if they identify who you are they'll terminate your membership.

Also, just be aware that if you do refuse to show you receipt they can trespass you from the property. I've seen a couple videos where the store manger does this.

The Walmart receipt checkers get nasty sometimes about it.  Either way I just ignore them and don't respond to it.

[I-39]

I've boycotted Walmart because of the way they treat their employees.

I don't boycott them, but I agree that the way they treat their employees isn't good.  I only think I've known one person who actually enjoyed working at Wal-Mart.  Everyone else has complained about their policies.  The one I heard about that I most dislike is that taking scheduled time off counts "points" against you.

The thing with receipt checks at Costco is that is a well known part of your membership agreement.  That's fine at Costco because I signed up for it, I didn't sign up for a receipt check at Walmart when I buy a Mountain Dew at self checkout.

Then don't stop when they want to check your receipt at Wal-Mart.  Just keep walking.  Didn't you use to work in security?  They're only permitted to stop you if they physically saw you shoplift.

I never get a receipt check at Walmart. Sam's Club.... yes, but never at Walmart.

I'm not a huge fan of Walmart either, but I am trying to use them more for my e-commerce purchases as I consider them the lesser of the two evils compared to Amazon, whom I believe is becoming waaaaaay too powerful on many levels.