Railroad crossings that SHOULD be grade separated

[Dirt Roads]

Is the correct answer "all of them"?

If you go on a Google Earth/Streetview tour of the world, there are many countries that have prioritized grade separating or closing dang near every former "level crossing". There's probably too many in the US to ever consider such a thing, but the UK is eliminating about 100 a year and have about 6,000 to go.

I'm imagining a lot of rural dirt road level crossings that see maybe twelve vehicles per day.  I really don't think they need grade separation.

Since this subtopic is back up, I'll respond.  Historically, many of the nasty crossing accidents resulting derailments involve tractor-trailers at private crossings.  Some states like North Carolina are quite aggressive at grade separating these crossings.  Very seldom does this involve a bridge.  These "landlocked" properties can be opened up with a new access road parallel to the railroad.  NCDOT Rail Division has also prioritized landlocked subdivisions and businesses because emergency crews cannot reach them if a train is stalled on the crossing.  It's often hard to justify the funding.

[Flint1979]

The worst at grade crossing in Saginaw is W. Genesee just east of N. Michigan and just west of the Saginaw River.

[roadman65]

Us 90 & 301 in Baldwin, FL. Though they just opened a bypass for US 301 that no longer deals with that but if you travel US 90 you still must deal with slow moving 100 plus long freight trains.

[froggie]

^

A) You're in the middle of Baldwin so there isn't really a spot to put one.
B) Both US 301 and I-10 are reasonable alternatives if you do hit a backup from a long train.

[-- US 175 --]

There is one in Fort Worth that isn't bad, but I'm surprised there isn't a separation.  It's on Berry St. between TCU and I-35W.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/MURsTsNo6QrpQRyL6
I guess the geometry isn't good with Cleburne Rd. crossing right alongside.  That RR might not be very busy, either.

Another in Fort Worth is on West 7th between the Clear Fork of the Trinity River and the Cultural District.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Ar7sFVBDVUTjpZTP9
This crossing may be like the other by TCU, not very busy.

There are 3 in Arlington that surprise me.  A very busy UP line goes through downtown, crossing Collins, Center, and Cooper at grade.  IINM, the routing of Amtrak between Dallas and Fort Worth was moved off this line in recent years.  The crossings aren't far from the UT-Arlington campus, as well as the area where AT&T Stadium (Cowboys' home field) and Globe Life Field (new Rangers ballpark) are.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/5pgaT4AK81BEQG378
If anything could be done to any of these, they would have to go under the RR, but the proximity to Division (TX 180, historic US 80) is probably the kibosh to all 3.  There are alternatives (TX 360 to the east, Fielder Rd. to the west), but I'm glad I don't have to wait for UP to do its business at any of those downtown crossings.

[Jmiles32]

Aside from the busy US-15 railroad crossing in Haymarket, another good one would be the Manassas Drive railroad crossing in Manassas Park:
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7643698,-77.4423283,672m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en\
East of this crossing, there are no other at grade railroad crossings for busy four lane roads in Northern Virginia.
West of this crossing the only remaining two are at Wellington Road and Godwin Drive. Might as well add those to the list too.

[ran4sh]

Winder GA needs more than just 1 grade separated street crossing the railroad. It's a small town but there's always traffic whenever I try to drive through there.

[ErmineNotyours]

Marysville, WA has three major interchanges with I-5 that are buffered to the east by a busy railroad that opens several times in the evening rush hour, causing backups onto the freeway. There are long-term proposals to elevate the railroad through the city, but it would be expensive and disruptive to BNSF, so they won't consider it seriously.

But they're already planning to build extra ramps between I-5 and SR 529 so at least there's access to and from the south from the main part of Marysville.  Northbound drivers can continue south along 529 and turn around.  If the train is going south, they can continue driving along the tracks for a while and hope they pass the tail.  https://wsdot.wa.gov/projects/i5/marine-view-sr-529/home

[fredmcain]

I think I may have posted this one before but since that was a while ago and because it's one of my favorites, I'll post it again.

It's on U.S. Route 31 south of Plymouth, Indiana.  You need to realize that much of U.S.31 in that part of Indiana is built to either Interstate Highway standards or near Interstate standards.

So, you feel like you are on the freeway and then all of a sudden out of nowhere you come upon this:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.2810547,-86.271511,3a,75y,195.46h,74.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sh57yrckAQ_lROmFSwuUZAw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

I have never encountered a train at that location and this particular line does not see heavy use but it still seems dangerous.  Imagine a long grain train lumbering across the highway at night and you're rolling at 65+ and just plain don't see it in time.

YIKES !

[fredmcain]

You know, I would like to add a small bit of extremely obscure trivia on grade crossings.

Have any of you really wondered why railroads in America employ those grade crossing signals with the alternately flashing red lights?  There is a historical reason for this that I only recently found out about.

In the 19th Century, many railroads guarded there busiest crossings with a watchman.  At that time, most if not all the traffic on the roads was horse-and-buggy traffic.

At night, when a train would approach, the watchman would come out swinging a red lantern back and forth to warn drivers of the approaching train.  That practice may have even lingered in a few places in the very early days of the automobile.

Well, as technology improved in the early 1900s, especially after about 1915 or so, railroads came out with what was called the “wig-wag” signal.  Wig wag signals had a large usually black and white target with a red light in the center that showed up at night.  The intention was to create the appearance of a swinging red lantern!

Any older members on our forum could very well remember seeing wig wag signals at grade crossings.  They were still fairly common up until about 30 or 40 years ago.

Some may have survived into the 1990s or even very early 2000s.  Here is a picture:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigwag_(railroad)#/media/File:RoundPrairieWigwag.jpg

Well the problem with wig wag signals is that they had  quite a few moving parts and were relatively high maintenance.  So, in the late 1930s railroads came out with the type of signals still common today.  The alternately flashing red lights were meant to create the appearance of a red light swinging to-and-fro just like the wigwag signal.  In other words, a swinging red lantern.

https://www.dreamstime.com/stock-photo-railroad-crossing-signal-lights-red-stop-sign-intersection-train-tracks-image67978726

In later years railroads began adding gates to the standard signal as well.  There is a name for that type of signal that escapes me right now.  I can't immediately find it online.

Here is an interesting variety where standard traffic signals where added as well.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/7119320@N05/6139117256

That particular feature seems to be somewhat rare.  I have only occasionally come across an installation like that.


As Fred Harvey once liked to quip, “And now you know the rest of the story!”

[catch22]

Here is an interesting variety where standard traffic signals where added as well.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/7119320@N05/6139117256

That particular feature seems to be somewhat rare.  I have only occasionally come across an installation like that.

This is SB US-127 south of Ithaca, MI, just north of the M-57 interchange.  This line serves a grain elevator a few miles to the west in Middleton and only sees a handful of trains per year.  I've been using this road on and off since the early 1970s and have never seen a train here.  I've always wondered if the traffic signals were added to make this an exempt crossing but I don't know for sure.

[fredmcain]

Adding standard traffic signals like that appears to be more common in Europe than in the U.S. or Canada.

You said that line serves a grain elevator and only has a few trains a year.  I believe that's the same case on the U.S. 31 street view that I posted.

Regards,
Fred M. Cain

[Dirt Roads]

Here is an interesting variety where standard traffic signals where added as well.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/7119320@N05/6139117256

That particular feature seems to be somewhat rare.  I have only occasionally come across an installation like that.

This is SB US-127 south of Ithaca, MI, just north of the M-57 interchange.  This line serves a grain elevator a few miles to the west in Middleton and only sees a handful of trains per year.  I've been using this road on and off since the early 1970s and have never seen a train here.  I've always wondered if the traffic signals were added to make this an exempt crossing but I don't know for sure.

I've never seen that application before.  We railroaders were well aware that traffic signals had the benefit of the public associating the enforcement of the red signal with "stoplight tickets", whereas the grade crossing signal is assumed to mean get off the tracks (and keep getting off the tracks until the train arrives).

One issue here is that the MUTCD requires a set of flashing light signals (FLS) above the middle of each lane.  Traffic signals are usually placed at the same location, but the railroad flashers have safety precedence over traffic signals.  Since this location adds the traffic signals as a measure of safety, the location of the traffic signals shouldn't be a problem but the missing FLS set could become a legal liability.  Most railroads prefer to keep the traffic signals away off of the FLS cantilever (because equipment installation and maintenance becomes a union issue).  I've worked on a number of projects where the railroads have agreed to an exception to allow the traffic signals on the FLS cantilever.

[SkyPesos]

Regarding standard traffic signals at railroad crossings, are drivers more likely to stop when they see a red light on a generic traffic signal than the flashing red bulbs (which I think some may take it as "proceed with caution)?

[fredmcain]

Regarding standard traffic signals at railroad crossings, are drivers more likely to stop when they see a red light on a generic traffic signal than the flashing red bulbs (which I think some may take it as "proceed with caution)?

That is indeed an interesting theory that I've always wondered about.  Many motorists who would never, never, NEVER even think about running through a red light simply have no problem running past the flashing railroad signals and having a near miss or worse.

The only other place that I can recall having seen this was many, many years ago in downtown La Mesa, CA.  There were two or three downtown city streets that crossed the railroad that ran through town protected by a set of crossbucks and a traffic signal on either side of the tracks.  When a train approached the signal would change from green to yellow and then to red. 

Of course, that's all gone now as the San Diego Light Rail Transit line goes through there.  I haven't been in La Mesa for over 45 years.

P.S.  Here is a Google Street view looking east at that crossing I remember:

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7643343,-117.0204048,3a,75y,69.5h,77.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7g_KL0VcePAVimQfgUiqbA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Here is a westbound view:

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7645707,-117.0201178,3a,75y,249.46h,93.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srd51j5O6GjGgLtJmjtdNow!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

So, it looks as thought they STILL have a red-yellow-green traffic light on the east side of the tracks but not on the westside.  That's kind of a puzzle.

Back in the day, this was the property of the Southern Pacific owned SD&AE railroad and they only ran one daily freight out that way.  Now it's a light rail line.  I'm not sure if they still run freight at night on it or not I think so but I'm not sure.

[dvferyance]

Moreland Blvd in Waukesha. Backups are horrendous anytime the train comes through.

[achilles765]

This is a big issue here in Houston. In most of the city, there are alternate routes for main rail lines that do have underpasses or overpasses. But it can be a pain when you're on shepherd drive in the middle of the inner loop and train comes through.

The worst offenders though are on my side of town, the east end. Only one major street has a grade seperation and that's wayside which is miles away from IH 69, the only other feasible way to avoid the train. And lately these trains have been coming through at all hours and will just stop. And sit. For hours and hours. It's gotten so bad many of us are demanding more overpasses because people have been fired for missing work because they were trapped in the neighborhood for hours. Ems has not been able to access homes during emergencies because there are four rail lines that boundary this area and they all will have a train coming though at the same time with at least two of them stopped for significant amounts of time.

[Bruce]

Marysville, WA has three major interchanges with I-5 that are buffered to the east by a busy railroad that opens several times in the evening rush hour, causing backups onto the freeway. There are long-term proposals to elevate the railroad through the city, but it would be expensive and disruptive to BNSF, so they won't consider it seriously.

But they're already planning to build extra ramps between I-5 and SR 529 so at least there's access to and from the south from the main part of Marysville.  Northbound drivers can continue south along 529 and turn around.  If the train is going south, they can continue driving along the tracks for a while and hope they pass the tail.  https://wsdot.wa.gov/projects/i5/marine-view-sr-529/home

The turnaround from SB 529 to NB 529 isn't actually usable for a lot of vehicles. It tends to get flooded, or there's huge trucks blocking it.

[Revive 755]

Is the correct answer "all of them"?

IMHO, no.  Certainly not for some of the smaller industrial spurs across lower volume streets.

Certainly a lot that still could use to be done in Chicagoland.  I'm sure others will be able to add a significant number to this list:

* US 14 at the CN in Barrington (in the works, some of the structure demolition is already visible in the aerial photos).

* Ela Road at the CN in Lake Zurich

* Old McHenry Road at the CN in Hawthorn Woods

* IL 60/IL 83 at the CN in Mundelein (IIRC in the planning stages)

* IL 60 and Butterfield Road at the CN/Metra line near Mundelein

* IL 137 at the UP line next to US 41 (ideally combined with a new interchange on US 41)

* IL 120 at the CN/Metra line next to IL 83

* Randall Road at Hopps Road near South Elgin (appears to be under study)

* Stearns Road at the CN near Bartlett

[mgk920]

There are two on the near interstate compatible US 151, one just north of WI 33 in Beaver Dam, WI and the other just southwest of WI 26 near Waupun, WI.  WisDOT has been discussing the needed upgrades off and on over the past couple of decades.

Mike

[hobsini2]

Found this interesting one, though not sure if it really needs to be grade separated: an LRT line through the middle of a DDI interchange

I am amazed that there is no railroad signals and gates.

[Skye]

In greater Cincinnati, one important crossing is Vine St at Spring Grove Ave (approximate address 5350 Vine St). Vine St is a major road and it's a busy crossing with a lot of train traffic, plus occasionally trains will stop and block the crossing for an extended period of time. The same tracks go on the cross Township Ave, Seymour Ave, and North Bend Rd, which individually are not especially busy but between the three of them there are quite a few cars crossing.

[SSR_317]

And Also ...

US 31 north of Argos and north of SR 28 in Tipton.

The crossing near Tipton is being replaced with an overpass.

Good.

Found this update on the Midwest - Great Lakes forum, More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend thread:

Construction for the bridge over NS RR tracks in Tipton County begins July 26.

Glad this is finally happening! Here's a link to INDOT's website for this project: https://www.in.gov/indot/4050.htm

[froggie]

Found this interesting one, though not sure if it really needs to be grade separated: an LRT line through the middle of a DDI interchange

I am amazed that there is no railroad signals and gates.

Fully signal controlled, as since it's median-running along 34th, it's part of the intersection.  Also, LRT trains have a 35mph speed limit south of the Humphrey station (and lower on the curves down towards the Mall of America).

[Brandon]

Being in Illinois, it's simply a metric fuck-ton of rail crossings. Illinois has the second highest track miles (7,028 mi) in the US, only surpassed by Texas (10,384 mi).  Metro Chicago alone has 2,140 crossings in the six-county area, with 7,189 grade crossings in the state.

IL Operation Lifesaver Statistics.

There's several I can name off the top of my head, but IL-126 (Main Street) in Plainfield just east of IL-59 at the CN (former EJE) tracks is one that should be grade separated.