Limon

[JayhawkCO]

We touch on this in a lot of the threads.  Time to put it to a poll.  Interested to see the correlation.

[SkyPesos]

Unpopular opinion here: If a city doesn't have a hospital, it can't be a primary control city.

[ran4sh]

Technically I'm option 4 in the poll, although I was once scheduled on a Greyhound bus itinerary that would have gone through Limon, but they ended up changing it so that I was on a different route instead. So there's an argument that I could have picked option 3.

Unpopular opinion here: If a city doesn't have a hospital, it can't be a primary control city.

I would say if it isn't the (or one of the) primary cities for a media market area, and/or it isn't one of the AAAA, AAA, AA, or A cities in the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranally_city_rating_system then it can't be a control city.

[hotdogPi]

I would say if it isn't the (or one of the) primary cities for a media market area, and/or it isn't one of the AAAA, AAA, AA, or A cities in the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranally_city_rating_system then it can't be a control city.

Lowell, MA? (I-495)

[ran4sh]

It's really for a different topic, but 3di should generally use the control cities of 2di that they connect to (With obvious exceptions such as a spur 3di in the direction where it ends and doesn't interchange with any more interstates).

[7/8]

I voted for option 4, though I have driven across the great plains/prairies on I-76/80, I-90, TCH 1 and TCH 16. My preference is for the primary city to be large and well-known, with smaller secondary cities for the cities/towns in between. For I-70, I would put Denver and Kansas City as the primary control cities, with Limon, Hays, Salina, Topeka (and maybe Lawrence?) as secondary cities. I'd also prefer most signs have both the primary and secondary city listed.

[vdeane]

I voted for option 4, though I have driven across the great plains/prairies on I-76/80, I-90, TCH 1 and TCH 16. My preference is for the primary city to be large and well-known, with smaller secondary cities for the cities/towns in between. For I-70, I would put Denver and Kansas City as the primary control cities, with Limon, Hays, Salina, Topeka (and maybe Lawrence?) as secondary cities. I'd also prefer most signs have both the primary and secondary city listed.

Yeah, I've never even heard of Limon before today, so I voted that way as well.

[US71]

Limon: isn't that the flavor of Sprite?

Limon is a jumping off point to Colorado Springs which I've used a couple times.

[ran4sh]

I disagree with using both a primary and secondary control city on signage because of message loading concerns. However, what some forum members call "secondary control cities" could instead be used as the middle line of a mileage/distance sign (technically only the bottom line city is a control city).

[Scott5114]

I just spent a weekend in Hays and my opinion on the I-70 control cities between Topeka and Denver has changed. What I think a lot of people may not understand from just looking at a map–I sure as hell didn't until I actually visited–is how empty western Kansas is. Not only is it empty in the sense of there being a lot of space between towns, but most of those towns are small enough there isn't much in the way of traveler services. We're talking multiple hours between McDonald'ses and Walmarts here. (I was thinking Russell, Hays, WaKeeney, Oakley, and Colby were all about the same size. They're very much not; Hays is way bigger than the rest of them.)

In that case, Hays absolutely makes sense as a control city because it's the only thing for hours in any direction that actually has some semblance of civilization. Miss Hays and your next halfway-decent stop is going to be Colby, 90 minutes to the west, or Salina, 90 minutes to the east. The towns in between just aren't big enough to support the sort of "small-town-on-an-Interstate" trappings you see in the other states.

I would imagine that anyone passingly familiar with the area would know where exactly where Hays is and why it's important. Now does that mean that first-time pass-through traffic would know where Hays and Limon are? Of course not. So I feel like the best way to handle this is to post both primary and secondary controls. "Hays/Denver" and "Limon/Denver" going westbound, "Limon/Topeka", "Hays/Topeka", and "Salina/Topeka" going eastbound. (Based on a cursory look at the map, a case could be made for including Colby, but I cried uncle at Oakley and retreated to Hays, so I have no first-hand experience there.) Both the primary and secondary controls need to be included on every sign, not just alternating or only posted on side ramps, to pound it into drivers' heads that "this town you have never heard of is important; ignore it at your own peril."

[SkyPesos]

I'm fine with Hays as a control city. It has a university and a hospital or two. On the other hand, Limon has neither of those things.

[JayhawkCO]

I'm fine with Hays as a control city. It has a university and a hospital or two. On the other hand, Limon has neither of those things.

No one is stopping on a road trip for an education.

[CtrlAltDel]

You can put me in group three.

In that case, Hays absolutely makes sense as a control city because it's the only thing for hours in any direction that actually has some semblance of civilization. Miss Hays and your next halfway-decent stop is going to be Colby, 90 minutes to the west, or Salina, 90 minutes to the east. The towns in between just aren't big enough to support the sort of "small-town-on-an-Interstate" trappings you see in the other states.

As I think I've said in some other thread, this is not a reason to make something a control city or not. Indicating the availability of motorist services is for the various types of blue signs.

My own criterion for control city "status," for Interstate highways at least, is that they be a city that your average motorist will likely have heard of, as a way to collaborate and confirm directions on a route. Otherwise they serve no purpose.

As such, secondary control cities are unnecessarily supplementary, and as such, to be avoided, except perhaps when two different routes go to the same location, like I-80 and I-88 eastbound near the Quad Cities of Iowa and Illinois.

[ran4sh]

I tend to agree, but in that specific example the main difference between I-80 and I-88 is not the secondary cities, but rather the fact that I-88 is tolled.

[jp the roadgeek]

Hopefully, there is not a fifth option:  Been to Limon due to commission to the Colorado Department of Corrections

[CtrlAltDel]

Hopefully, there is not a fifth option:  Been to Limon due to commission to the Colorado Department of Corrections

That would be two extra options, depending on what you think of its control city status. 

[JayhawkCO]

Unpopular opinion here: If a city doesn't have a hospital, it can't be a primary control city.

It's 19 minutes from one.  Plenty of places in Denver where you're 19 minutes away from a hospital.

[Flint1979]

Limon is the only city really in an otherwise middle of nowhere area. What would you use instead? Burlington? Burlington is bigger than Limon and near the Kansas state border on I-70. It's about 75 miles east of Limon.

[zachary_amaryllis]

Hopefully, there is not a fifth option:  Been to Limon due to commission to the Colorado Department of Corrections

*sheepishly raises hand*

not a nice place.

[JayhawkCO]

Hopefully, there is not a fifth option:  Been to Limon due to commission to the Colorado Department of Corrections

*sheepishly raises hand*

not a nice place.

Better than being in Florence!

[nexus73]

My friend and I spent a night at a motel in Limon.  Found a decent breakfast the next morning.  It is the only city out in the middle of nowhere as Flint mentioned.  Limon as a control city is fine but I do like the idea of dual control cities on BGS's.

Rick

[CtrlAltDel]

Limon is the only city really in an otherwise middle of nowhere area. What would you use instead? Burlington? Burlington is bigger than Limon and near the Kansas state border on I-70. It's about 75 miles east of Limon.

There's no real reason, I don't think, for control cities to be that local. I would go with Denver westbound and Kansas City eastbound.

[Flint1979]

Limon is the only city really in an otherwise middle of nowhere area. What would you use instead? Burlington? Burlington is bigger than Limon and near the Kansas state border on I-70. It's about 75 miles east of Limon.

There's no real reason, I don't think, for control cities to be that local. I would go with Denver westbound and Kansas City eastbound.

That boils back to the state's choosing the control cities, Colorado seems to think that Limon is important enough to be a control city. If it were a national thing I could probably see Kansas City and Denver being the control cities. But they are also 600 miles apart as well but I can see your point as I-70 is a long haul Interstate and a lot of people use it to cross the country as at least part of their route.

Off topic but I'm surprised that I-70 didn't go to Sacramento.

[CtrlAltDel]

Limon is the only city really in an otherwise middle of nowhere area. What would you use instead? Burlington? Burlington is bigger than Limon and near the Kansas state border on I-70. It's about 75 miles east of Limon.

There's no real reason, I don't think, for control cities to be that local. I would go with Denver westbound and Kansas City eastbound.

That boils back to the state's choosing the control cities, Colorado seems to think that Limon is important enough to be a control city.

If we're not allowed to critique the decisions of state transportation agencies, then our lives have no meaning. 

[wriddle082]

It's a major crossroads.  You can feasibly get to Colorado Springs. Denver, Salina/Topeka/Kansas City, or Amarillo from there.  Let it be.

But I am not against dual control cities.  So put Kansas City underneath it if it makes you feel any better.  Reduce the font size slightly and use Series D if you don't want to use larger signs.