Limon

[kalvado]

Just have Kansas City as the eastbound control city from Denver. Limon, Burlington, Goodland, Colby, Oakley, WaKeeney, Hays, Russell, Salina, Junction City, and Topeka could be used as secondaries, on a rotating basis. Problem solved!

(All right, I could see Hays, Salina, and Topeka occasionally being used as the primary - that is, third-line - destinations along the Burlington-Oakley, Hays-Russell, and Salina-Junction City sections, respectively, with the closer, smaller town being the secondary, but most of the signs would have KC as the primary.)

The same principle could be applied for signing Denver westbound - at least west of Salina, anyway.

I think the problem with having Kansas City as the control city in Denver is the distance between the two, it's 600 miles from Denver to KC so that is quite a stretch. Limon is fine as a control city because people in Colorado are going to know where it is. I'm sure CDOT doesn't care about long distance travel they try to use control cities within their own state.

Honestly speaking, that is the concept making me really uncomfortable.

[Flint1979]

Here's an idea, let's just use each end of the highway for control cities. So anyone going EB on I-70 will see Baltimore as the control city and anyone going WB on I-70 will see Cove Fort as the control city. Anyone going NB on I-75 will see Sault Ste. Marie and going SB will see Miami. Does this clear everything up?

[hotdogPi]

Here's an idea, let's just use each end of the highway for control cities. So anyone going EB on I-70 will see Baltimore Beltway as the control city and anyone going WB on I-70 will see Cove Fort as the control city. Anyone going NB on I-75 will see Sault Ste. Marie and going SB will see Miami. Does this clear everything up?

FTFY

[kalvado]

Here's an idea, let's just use each end of the highway for control cities. So anyone going EB on I-70 will see Baltimore as the control city and anyone going WB on I-70 will see Cove Fort as the control city. Anyone going NB on I-75 will see Sault Ste. Marie and going SB will see Miami. Does this clear everything up?

Make it "MSA of at least 2 million nearest to the terminus" and I would actually agree with you!

[Rothman]

Here's an idea, let's just use each end of the highway for control cities. So anyone going EB on I-70 will see Baltimore Beltway as the control city and anyone going WB on I-70 will see Cove Fort as the control city. Anyone going NB on I-75 will see Sault Ste. Marie and going SB will see Miami. Does this clear everything up?

FTFY

Oh noes.

[GaryV]

I just wanted to point out the silliness of the fact that this thread has more pageviews than Limon has residents.

Doing my part to ensure the thread gets more posts than Limon has residents.

[kphoger]

I don't really have a problem with Limon or Hays as control cities, mind you. But if you did have to get rid of them, Topeka would be the best choice.

The next Interstate junction would be Salina, which is where most Wichita-bound traffic turns south (and those who turn earlier are already very familiar with the highways), so I'd also be OK with that instead of Topeka.

Problem is that Salina CO is accessed by westbound I-70 from Denver. So you'd have to do the awkward "Salina Colo" and "Salina Kan" thing that Tennessee has to do with Jackson. Probably easier to just skip Salina, then.

There is no Salina, CO. There is, however, Salida, CO.

Thank you for pointing that out.  Technically, there is a Salina in Colorado, but it's all but abandoned and has a population well under 100.

People argue that Limon is well-known. I would argue that it's only well-known because there are control city signs for it everywhere. If Limon wasn't used as a control city, it wouldn't be any more well-known than Burlington, Goodland, Colby, or even Oakley. It would just be another small town on I-70 that people buzz by in two minutes.

No.  Colorado Springs traffic would definitely know Limon, because that's the jumping-on or -off point for them.  The very reason it's a control city to begin with is the same reason a lot of people would be familiar with it regardless.

I grew up in far northwestern Kansas, so I'm quite familiar with Goodland and Colby and Oakley.  But, for me, the towns between the KS/CO state line and Denver go something like this:

state line, Burlington somewhere by the state line, mumble, mumble, mumble, Flagler maybe?, mumble, mumble, LIMON, mumble, mumble, Byers for US-36, something else, truck traffic near Watkins, then Denver.  And I only know Byers because we'd usually take US-36 to Denver instead of I-70.  Otherwise, I'd pretty much only know Burlington and Limon–but especially Limon.

When you get off I-70 at Exit 359 in Limon, you'll notice that the exit has traveler services that are quite comparable to what Hays (KS) has at I-70 Exit 159. In fact, the only major difference between the two, despite Hays having 19000 more people, is that Limon doesn't (yet) have a Starbucks. Also, bear in mind that Limon is the turnoff point for trucks that supply the Colorado Front Range from Dallas-Ft Worth and the TX Gulf Coast.

Traveler-oriented businesses at Limon
La Quinta Inn & Suites
Super 8
Econolodge
Quality Inn & Suites
Comfort Inn
Holiday Inn Express
Flying J truck stop
TA/Phillips 66 truck stop
Cenex
Sinclair
Shell
IHOP
Subway
McDonald's
Taco Bell
Arby's
Wendy's
Tesla Supercharger station
ChargePoint charging station

This is definitely not a nothing of a town.  But I'll admit it is similar to Colby as far as traveler services go.

[hotdogPi]

This discussion has been going on for much longer than the 10 pages in this specific thread. Nobody is going to be convinced one way or the other based on the arguments in this thread. It's just going to be continually endless arguing. Even Flint1979 is saying who cares. For this, I have to say...

Eastern Colorado should be moved to Central Time.

[Rothman]

This discussion has been going on for much longer than the 10 pages in this specific thread. Nobody is going to be convinced one way or the other based on the arguments in this thread. It's just going to be continually endless arguing. Even Flint1979 is saying who cares. For this, I have to say...

Eastern Colorado should be moved to Central Time.

But what about Daylight Savings Time?

[Flint1979]

Here's something to think about when you suggest Kansas City being the control city as far west as Denver. Like I've mentioned it's 600 miles. I live in Saginaw, MI along I-75, it's 586 miles from here to Knoxville, Tennessee just to show an eastern example of how far it is between Denver and KC. And you don't even stay on I-75 the entire time. Now from Knoxville to Tampa, Florida is 669 miles only 69 more miles. That just goes to show how big the western US really is. You think your west when your in Denver and still have 1,250 miles to go to get to San Francisco.

[kphoger]

Here's something to think about when you suggest Kansas City being the control city as far west as Denver. Like I've mentioned it's 600 miles.

El Paso to San Antonio is 550 miles.  In my opinion, Van Horn as a control city is kind of like Limon, except there's no Colorado Springs—sized city for eastbound traffic to be going to from El Paso.  Westbound, Van Horn is kind of ridiculous.

[hotdogPi]

Poiponen13 has the right idea: relocate a whole bunch of people to somewhere on the I-70 corridor (Burlington?) so that there's a control city that's large enough.

[Flint1979]

Here's something to think about when you suggest Kansas City being the control city as far west as Denver. Like I've mentioned it's 600 miles.

El Paso to San Antonio is 550 miles.  In my opinion, Van Horn as a control city is kind of like Limon, except there's no Colorado Springs—sized city for eastbound traffic to be going to from El Paso.  Westbound, Van Horn is kind of ridiculous.

The only reason I can see with Van Horn is that it's the intersection of US-90 and I-10 at US-90's western terminus. El Paso is only 120 miles west of Van Horn though. Where does Van Horn start being used going WB on I-10 at?

[kphoger]

The only reason I can see with Van Horn is that it's the intersection of US-90 and I-10 at US-90's western terminus. El Paso is only 120 miles west of Van Horn though. Where does Van Horn start being used going WB on I-10 at?

I just saw some east of Junction.

I drove past these three signs on Saturday, and I've got to say, I wasn't exactly thrilled with their choice for the second line.  Not really a control city, but still.

Also, the math doesn't seem quite right...

https://goo.gl/maps/duCDy3HJPZHgAYmC7
https://goo.gl/maps/6VGctjNEW2gYdcmn6
https://goo.gl/maps/L4Xn8PgUYqBzXSP78

On the other hand, here's a legit control city at an exit I took five days earlier, and I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out how Ciudad Mier seemed like a better idea than Apodaca or Cadereyta or China or Reynosa or any other town that isn't eighty miles away from highway 40, in another state, and back in the opposite general direction of the traffic facing the sign.

https://goo.gl/maps/Sf3HjyrE8bBfgism6

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Just have Kansas City as the eastbound control city from Denver. Limon, Burlington, Goodland, Colby, Oakley, WaKeeney, Hays, Russell, Salina, Junction City, and Topeka could be used as secondaries, on a rotating basis. Problem solved!

(All right, I could see Hays, Salina, and Topeka occasionally being used as the primary - that is, third-line - destinations along the Burlington-Oakley, Hays-Russell, and Salina-Junction City sections, respectively, with the closer, smaller town being the secondary, but most of the signs would have KC as the primary.)

The same principle could be applied for signing Denver westbound - at least west of Salina, anyway.

I think the problem with having Kansas City as the control city in Denver is the distance between the two, it's 600 miles from Denver to KC so that is quite a stretch. Limon is fine as a control city because people in Colorado are going to know where it is. I'm sure CDOT doesn't care about long distance travel they try to use control cities within their own state.

I agree it's quite far, but Kansas City isn't just another destination either. It's a major truck destination as well as a critical crossroads and traffic shift point, even if I-80 peels most truck traffic off.

[RoadWarrior56]

The mayor of Limon should award Control City Freak the key to the city.  He has done more than anybody to make Limon, Co. famous. 

[kphoger]

I agree it's quite far, but Kansas City isn't just another destination either. It's a major truck destination as well as a critical crossroads and traffic shift point, even if I-80 peels most truck traffic off.

Speaking as someone who used to live within 30 miles of I-70 between Hays and Limon, I'd say Denver and Kansas City would be just fine as control cities.  If Limon and Hays are too small for people's liking, then I'd go with Denver and Kansas City instead, rather than quibbling over Burlington and Salina and even Topeka.

[J N Winkler]

Have we ever tried:

*  Ranking Interstate control cities by size?

*  Ranking Interstate control city pairs by shortest separation (reckoned as travel distance along the Interstate and any necessary connector routes)?

*  Normalizing either of the foregoing measures by multiplying by some other parameter, such as the mean population density of the state the control city is in/the states passed through to connect the two cities in the pair?

I will admit I say no to Limon because I just don't like it.  (Part of Sarah Smarsh's Heartland is set in it and tells the story of an abusive husband about whom local law enforcement does nothing because he is "connected.")  But the point about Van Horn is interesting.

[hotdogPi]

Have we ever tried:

*  Ranking Interstate control cities by size?

*  Ranking Interstate control city pairs by shortest separation (reckoned as travel distance along the Interstate and any necessary connector routes)?

*  Normalizing either of the foregoing measures by multiplying by some other parameter, such as the mean population density of the state the control city is in/the states passed through to connect the two cities in the pair?

I will admit I say no to Limon because I just don't like it.  (Part of Sarah Smarsh's Heartland is set in it and tells the story of an abusive husband about whom local law enforcement does nothing because he is "connected.")  But the point about Van Horn is interesting.

(click quote link for context)

Population/2^(distance / 100 mi)

[This isn't the same formula I used earlier.]

[Flint1979]

I think people are against Limon because on the east coast Limon would never be a control city but in the west the population is pretty sparse and Limon makes sense

[Rothman]

I think people are against Limon because on the east coast Limon would never be a control city but in the west the population is pretty sparse and Limon makes sense

People aren't.  A few roadgeeks are.

[Flint1979]

I think people are against Limon because on the east coast Limon would never be a control city but in the west the population is pretty sparse and Limon makes sense

People aren't.  A few roadgeeks are.

I meant the people here. I agree no one outside of road geeks care.

[kphoger]

Roadgeeks are people too!

[Rothman]

Roadgeeks are people too!

"Mr. The Frog, we all agreed a roadgeek is not a people."

[brad2971]

Poiponen13 has the right idea: relocate a whole bunch of people to somewhere on the I-70 corridor (Burlington?) so that there's a control city that's large enough.

Be careful. Burlington does have a Core-Civic owned prison that's been closed since 2016.