New York

[webny99]

I wonder if NY Thruway will go mile-based when the Thruway goes all-electronic.

[looks for :fingers crossed: emoji, but to no avail]

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

On NY110 going south, right after the Jericho Turnpike intersection, the route 110 sign was replaced with a US shield instead of a NYS shield. Must have been done in the past month.

[Buffaboy]

Wouldn't a simple solution to close mileage based exits be A/B/C exits, or N/S/E/W? Seems like a simple fix.

Also, what can the DOT do to make Niagara Falls Boulevard more efficient in Amherst? There probably isn't room for additional lanes, is there?

http://buffalonews.com/2018/01/22/amherst-tonawanda-to-jointly-study-future-of-niagara-falls-boulevard/

[empirestate]

When will NY convert to mileage-based exit numbers?
I know it has been officially proposed before  However, to my knowledge, I-99 and I-781 are the only current freeways with mileage based numbers. I'd like to see the whole state convert soon.

It won't happen until NYSDOT and the Thruway Authority have no choice but to comply with federal guidelines. They have said repeatedly that they'd rather use the money for something more important like bridge repairs, etc.

And I agree with their position. I've been all over the country, so I'm certainly familiar with the benefits of mileage-based numbering, but I also have never known the absence of it to result in any great hardship such that spending a lot of money, if any, is justified.

[vdeane]

If only somebody had told NY that Reagan would cancel the metric conversion, we would have had mile-based numbers by now.

I could see the Thruway converting with AET.  With no more toll tickets, the need for a distinct numbering system would be reduced.  Moving I-90 to the Berkshire Spur would also make conversion easier, since then the Spur could just continue I-90's mileage.

[webny99]

If only somebody had told NY that Reagan would cancel the metric conversion, we would have had mile-based numbers by now.

I could see the Thruway converting with AET.  With no more toll tickets, the need for a distinct numbering system would be reduced.  Moving I-90 to the Berkshire Spur would also make conversion easier, since then the Spur could just continue I-90's mileage.

Would be interesting, in a theoretical I-87/I-90 multiplex, to see which set of exit numbers would be used on the overlap.

[machias]

If only somebody had told NY that Reagan would cancel the metric conversion, we would have had mile-based numbers by now.

I could see the Thruway converting with AET.  With no more toll tickets, the need for a distinct numbering system would be reduced.  Moving I-90 to the Berkshire Spur would also make conversion easier, since then the Spur could just continue I-90's mileage.

Would be interesting, in a theoretical I-87/I-90 multiplex, to see which set of exit numbers would be used on the overlap.

There has been many discussions with the Thruway Authority about this. One thought was to start with Ripley as Exit 1 and Hall Place as Exit 496 (number the exits west to east, north to south), keeping the Thruway numbering intact for the entire length of the mainline. The FHWA wants I-87 and I-90 numbered separately but the Thruway Authority is concerned about similar exit numbers not being anywhere near each other (for example Exit 108 at Saugerties on I-87 and Exit 106 at Batavia on I-90). I'm pretty sure the FHWA would win on this.

I know that if the change does take place, the Northway will start with Exit 159. Originally they were going to start it with Exit 150 (for NY 5 / Wolf Rd), but they were kindly reminded that there's 8.8 miles of I-87 prior to the start of the Thruway, so the I-87/I-90 interchange is actually at mile 157, not 148 as currently marked on the Thruway.

For the life of me I have never been able to figure out why the Northway and Free 90 start over with milepost 0 at the I-87/I-90 interchange. Even with sequential numbers this doesn't really make sense.

[Duke87]

For the life of me I have never been able to figure out why the Northway and Free 90 start over with milepost 0 at the I-87/I-90 interchange. Even with sequential numbers this doesn't really make sense.

You answered your own question. That is mile 0 of the Northway and mile 0 of "Free 90" - treating both as distinct roads rather than following the interstate designations they carry.

It's in violation of standard convention but it's not nonsensical.

[webny99]

For the life of me I have never been able to figure out why the Northway and Free 90 start over with milepost 0 at the I-87/I-90 interchange. Even with sequential numbers this doesn't really make sense.

You answered your own question. That is mile 0 of the Northway and mile 0 of "Free 90" - treating both as distinct roads rather than following the interstate designations they carry.

It's in violation of standard convention but it's not nonsensical.

Borderline nonsensical, IMO. Just because a designation passes through an interchange, the numbering scheme resets? Don't know of that happening anywhere else. And it would not have conflicted with the thruway in either case. Totally on NYSDOT

[Rothman]

Huh?  The Northway and Free I-90 are NYSDOT.  Makes sense due to the ownership change that the exits reset.  Take Exit 24 and you'll see that the designation does not simply pass through a simple interchange, but the engineering cluster**** that is Exit 24/Exit 1.

It is too bad the Thruway isn't a simpler setup like the Ohio Turnpike, but I always thought the Thruway could take the lessons learned from that changeover.

[webny99]

Huh?  The Northway and Free I-90 are NYSDOT.  Makes sense due to the ownership change that the exits reset.  Take Exit 24 and you'll see that the designation does not simply pass through a simple interchange, but the engineering cluster**** that is Exit 24/Exit 1.

It is too bad the Thruway isn't a simpler setup like the Ohio Turnpike, but I always thought the Thruway could take the lessons learned from that changeover.

I don't see what ownership has to do with it. There should be at least some degree of coordination, in that NYSDOT should acknowledge the existence of portions of those routes that they don't maintain. It seems to me the responsibility for continuing the numbering schemes was/is on them.

[Rothman]

Huh?  The Northway and Free I-90 are NYSDOT.  Makes sense due to the ownership change that the exits reset.  Take Exit 24 and you'll see that the designation does not simply pass through a simple interchange, but the engineering cluster**** that is Exit 24/Exit 1.

It is too bad the Thruway isn't a simpler setup like the Ohio Turnpike, but I always thought the Thruway could take the lessons learned from that changeover.

I don't see what ownership has to do with it. There should be at least some degree of coordination, in that NYSDOT should acknowledge the existence of portions of those routes that they don't maintain. It seems to me the responsibility for continuing the numbering schemes was/is on them.

It is also cultural.  The Northway is considered an entirely separate highway to the point where I wonder how many people realize that the I-87 portions of the Deegan, Thruway and Northway are one route.

When I moved here, I didn't even know I-87 north of the Thruway was called the Northway and it is very ingrained in the community that way...along with "Alt 7," unfortunately.

[Duke87]

There should be at least some degree of coordination

In New York? You're asking a lot.

[machias]

Huh?  The Northway and Free I-90 are NYSDOT.  Makes sense due to the ownership change that the exits reset.  Take Exit 24 and you'll see that the designation does not simply pass through a simple interchange, but the engineering cluster**** that is Exit 24/Exit 1.

It is too bad the Thruway isn't a simpler setup like the Ohio Turnpike, but I always thought the Thruway could take the lessons learned from that changeover.

It's interesting to note that the reference markers on the Northway in Region 1 show the "county count" for the entire length of I-87 but in Region 7 show the "county count" for only the Northway.

[kalvado]

Huh?  The Northway and Free I-90 are NYSDOT.  Makes sense due to the ownership change that the exits reset.  Take Exit 24 and you'll see that the designation does not simply pass through a simple interchange, but the engineering cluster**** that is Exit 24/Exit 1.

It is too bad the Thruway isn't a simpler setup like the Ohio Turnpike, but I always thought the Thruway could take the lessons learned from that changeover.

I don't see what ownership has to do with it. There should be at least some degree of coordination, in that NYSDOT should acknowledge the existence of portions of those routes that they don't maintain. It seems to me the responsibility for continuing the numbering schemes was/is on them.

It is also cultural.  The Northway is considered an entirely separate highway to the point where I wonder how many people realize that the I-87 portions of the Deegan, Thruway and Northway are one route.

When I moved here, I didn't even know I-87 north of the Thruway was called the Northway and it is very ingrained in the community that way...along with "Alt 7," unfortunately.

If you will, the way highways are interconnected in Albany, as well as legal ownership, it makes sense to consider NYC-Albany-Buffalo road as single highway (apparently that means bending I-90 to NYC), and Montreal-Albany-MA border as the other one, lets call it I-87*. Which would make it even more messy - and more fun as we can get few more I-X90's.
I am not sure if there are many examples of interstates making a 90 degree turn in cardinal direction - especially with such anticrossing as it would be in Albany - but it is less crazy than an interstate to Hawaii.

[vdeane]

Yes, it's very, very cultural.  Around here, the Thruway is the Thruway, I-90 is only the free part, and I-87 is only the Northway.  It's also worth noting that the current interchanges at exits 24 and 1 are only about as old as the modern Can of Worms.  Before then, exit 24 was a standard Thruway trumpet, and exit 1 was a cloverleaf.

It's interesting to note that the reference markers on the Northway in Region 1 show the "county count" for the entire length of I-87 but in Region 7 show the "county count" for only the Northway.

Not quite.  The Region 1 ones count Albany County twice - one for the Thruway, and one for the Northway.

[cl94]

And NOBODY calls it "Free 90" outside of the roadgeek community. Heck, a lot of people from here don't even know what I-87 is, because it's the Northway or the Thruway.

[machias]

And NOBODY calls it "Free 90" outside of the roadgeek community. Heck, a lot of people from here don't even know what I-87 is, because it's the Northway or the Thruway.

So what do they call Free 90?

[vdeane]

And NOBODY calls it "Free 90" outside of the roadgeek community. Heck, a lot of people from here don't even know what I-87 is, because it's the Northway or the Thruway.

So what do they call Free 90?

It's just I-90.

[Rothman]

Meh.  I have heard people refer to "Free 90"  for emphasis to make sure what road they were talking about.

Of course, there is my co-worker who grew up in Ravena that still gets confused between I-87, I-90 and I-787.

[Michael]

Syracuse.com had two articles and videos about the I-690 Beach St and Teall Ave bridge construction last week:
State said I-690 lane detours to be gone by winter, they're still there: Why? (video)
See bird's eye view of Interstate 690 bridge project in Syracuse (video)

I drove through there on the 18th and 25th, and the snowbanks on the side made it even worse than it already is.  The first article and video mentions there's a 45 MPH speed limit, but I don't recall seeing any speed limit signs.  I feel comfortable only doing 45 MPH unless I'm in one of the wider sections.  In that case, 55 MPH is fine.  There are some lane markings heading eastbound that literally direct you toward a bridge rail until the last second, which isn't fun.  In addition to the narrow road, the section is the busiest road in the Syracuse area with an AADT of 124,917.

A few months ago, I found this picture of the new retaining wall being built on Instagram while seeing if there were any posts tagged with the hashtag I690.

[Mccojm]

On NY110 going south, right after the Jericho Turnpike intersection, the route 110 sign was replaced with a US shield instead of a NYS shield. Must have been done in the past month.

I'll have to check that out, I'm currently on rotation with residency 10-5 in Melville that covers 110. I'll be in the look out as there are no us routes on the island so it's definitely a rare sight

[D-Dey65]

^ That - was just about to chime in about how confusing many of the interchanges are because of the additions over the years.

--

In other news:

New York docked $14M for I Love NY highway signs

The federal government has docked New York $14 million in highway funds for installing more than 500 I Love NY road signs that violate federal highway rules and state law.

The Federal Highway Administration unveiled the penalty in a letter Thursday to transportation officials in Gov. Andrew Cuomo's administration, which installed the blue signs across the state in recent years despite a 2013 federal order prohibiting it from doing so.

The letter from Brandye Hendrickson, FHWA's acting administrator, gives the state until Sept. 30 to come into compliance with federal rules.

(Don't worry, if the state doesn't come into compliance, the $14 million penalty sticks. Otherwise, it will be refunded. But given the state won't install mile-based exit signs...)

They still should leave them up in Port Jefferson.

[Rothman]

Oh no!  Not $14m!  Why, God why?  Oh, NY will never recover!  Oh, the humanity!

(Great news story, but in the end, meaning very little given how federal aid works)

[kalvado]

Oh no!  Not $14m!  Why, God why?  Oh, NY will never recover!  Oh, the humanity!

(Great news story, but in the end, meaning very little given how federal aid works)

And given that installation is said to be $8M....
However - is that $14M a one-time fine, or recurring amount?  Can they increase the number next year if nothing changes?