A few photos of Autoroute 50 between Ottawa and Montreal taken on Sunday:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FPQ%2FA%2F50%2FA50_aaroads1.jpg&hash=32b6498982b9c934163d73e96a3a964fb08dd0da)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FPQ%2FA%2F50%2FA50_aaroads2.jpg&hash=a08a81d7f589418f6bda37f80e6d324e1b362d9e)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FPQ%2FA%2F50%2FA50_aaroads3.jpg&hash=2d5bc8043cd6f706bf84df12fe9ae1d4d7327dd0)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FPQ%2FA%2F50%2FA50_aaroads4.jpg&hash=b95fb3ce789aac05c22b2754176d979c0d96c5c9)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FPQ%2FA%2F50%2FA50_aaroads5.jpg&hash=fcea42e6eb5169fc44d9e11455b2a0042d60f3c2)
This road is uber-photogenic. I took some additional photos on Sunday, and will definitely be back to take more. Some of the vantages of the Ottawa River that are visible along this road are simply stunning; but require some creativity to capture on film from the highway.
that's some great landscape; thanks for sharing the photos!
Looks like it's coming along swiftly, eh
With the expenditure of much dynamite!
(Pardon my lack of French)
Mike
Just beautiful. :)
That should be an interesting rock removal job if the road is ever twinned.
Are Autoroutes not built to similar standards as Interstate highways? I thought they were, and this doesn't look like it follows such standards. It reminds me somewhat of the grandfathered "Super 2" that you can find throughout New England.
Not necessarily. A-55 even has a stoplight and at-grade intersections around Stanstead/Derby Lane.
Quote from: Quillz on May 22, 2012, 06:17:53 AM
Are Autoroutes not built to similar standards as Interstate highways? I thought they were, and this doesn't look like it follows such standards. It reminds me somewhat of the grandfathered "Super 2" that you can find throughout New England.
A-50 is a Super-two on most of its length.
While most autoroutes are fully access-controlled four-lane divided freeways, there are many exceptions to this rule.
A-19 is an urban boulevard through most of its length, A-20 is a boulevard through Vaudreuil and Pincourt and a super-two after Rivière-du-Loup, A-30 is a two-lane country road in Bécancour; so is A-955; A-35's interchange with A-10 has stops in some ramps, A-55 has several stops and signals between A-20 and Trois-Rivières, and one dangerous at-grade intersection north of Stanstead.
I'm probably forgetting several examples.
Isn't one of the traffic signals along the 55 supposed to be replaced with an interchange this year? I think Stephane posted that earlier in the spring, but I may be mistaken.
Exactly, one interchange at Becancour in the area of St-Gregroire, the traffic light with Des Acadiens Blvd is planned to be replaced by a interchange.
An impressive number of autoroutes were built to lower standards, upgraded later along with needs and fundings.
- A-5 has a 4-lane divided section that has no interchanges ―the road begins and ends at intersections―, but is actually being connected to its southern counterpart (end of construction : 2015);
- A-15 was first built in the 40's as route 9 (US-9 extension), AKA Sir-Wilfrid-Laurier Way. It connected US border, Jacques-Cartier bridge and Québec City via actual A-15, R-134, R-116 and A-20 routings. The road was a mix of 2 and 4-lanes, divided or not, rural or urban expressways or boulevard with some interchanges and roundabouts. From the original R-9, A-20 and A-15 have been totally upgraded to freeways, 116 on some parts, 134 is mixed jersey freeway/urban boulevard;
- R-117 north of A-15 terminus has seen its Mont-Tremblant―Saint-Jovite bypass upgraded from 4-lane divided highway to 4-lane + C/D freeway and has been given A-15 exit numbering;
- A-19 northern extension is actually built as a 2-lane rural expressway bearing route number 335, but is planned to be a fully operationnal 2 HOV+4-lane freeway by 2015;
- A-720 eastern section (also known as Avenue Souligny) was a narrow 4-lane divided expressway on one carriageway, but has been widened to 5-lane on two roadbeds;
- A-25 has been for a long time a 2-lane, then 4-lane rural expressway with no interchanges north of chemin Sainte-Marie (exit 28). The additional 20 km were "freewayized" 10-15 years ago. A northerly 4, then 2-lane rural expressway between Chertsey township and Notre-Dame-de-la-Merci built with large volume expectations was meant to be eventually part of an A-25 freeway;
- Dr Frankenstein told you about A-30 Bécancour stretch, but...
- A-30 had 3 different planned routings along history and some leftovers of its partial construction remain, such as a 4-lane ± expressway between Old Malone and Blind Lady's roads in Kahnawake and a 2-lane somewhat expressway north of Châteauguay. You can even find a twin roadbed and twin bridges when crossing some rivers. Those sections will likely never be part of A-30;
- On another note, the Kahnawake bypass was built as a super-2 first in 1990, then twinned two years later, making one think it has been built in emergency;
- A-31 was first built as a 4-lane rural expressway. Two intersections were replaced by interchanges over 30 years after its original construction, adding to the two lately existing at both ends.
- A-35 has a mix of A-31 and A-5 history ; the northern part had two at-grade intersection north of Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu (late Saint-Luc) removed in the 90's (construction dating back from '66). An existing southerly 4-lane divided rural expressway is being connected to the actual A-35 and upgraded onto a freeway (end of construction : 2017);
- See this post (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=2353.msg125403#msg125403) for A-40 and A-520 history on Montréal island;
- A-440 (Charest) was a 2-lane rural expressway that has been twinned, then converted into a freeway;
- A-440 (Laval) collectors were built before the mainline, resulting in a wide divided highway with slow speed, driveways and interchanges;
- A-640 was built in 1961 as a rural expressway, 4 lanes wide on most of its lenght. Most of the junctions were at-grade, except for Autoroute des Laurentides (now A-15) and Route Arthur-Sauvé (R-8, now R-148). It was upgraded and extended in the 70's;
- A-740 was a periurban expressway, before being upgraded, extended and connected to its "2da".
- A-50 Mirabel Airport access seems to have been intended as an expressway more than a freeway, as A-50 routing was in the 70's planned south of the airport. Nonetheless, it had many more at-grade intersections that were removed lately;
- A-55 is, I think, one of the best examples of staged upgrades : of the 150 kilometres originally built a 2-lane freeway between Sherbrooke and Shawinigan, the lenght of 120 kilometre was twinned;
- A-73 is currently being twinned between route Calway (km 66) and route Cameron (exit 95), the section having been built between 1983 and 1992. Km 66-72 is almost completed, Km 72-95 is underway (end of construction : 2015?). Kilometres 159 to 167 were also dualized 10 years ago, 8 years after its original construction. Henri-IV section was originally built as an urban expressway in 1963, with a mix of narrow interchanges, roundabouts and at-grades;
Do not mistake the staging process for low standards! And the shield similarity does not mean "same standards"; some parts of the Autoroute network, especially in urban areas, could not qualify for Interstate.
About A-50 : I suspect that A-50 will revive between A-25 and A-31 (the number has been dropped in the 80's, the route downgraded to R-158), with volumes that grew over 50% in the past 10 years, justifying the need for twinning (average 13-14k vpd, existing infrastructure, etc.). The Mirabel 2-lane section (km 260 to 285) saw its trafic grow too in the past 10 years ―though not as much as the aformentionned stretch. I think it will grow much more when the link is completed between Mirabel and Gatineau. We can already speculate a twinning is in the mind of the MTQ (but not in the budget :-D)
Quote from: mgk920 on May 08, 2012, 09:27:02 PM
With the expenditure of much dynamite!
(Pardon my lack of French)
Mike
Je t'aiderai:
- Avec la dépense de beaucoup TNT!
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on May 08, 2012, 02:06:17 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FPQ%2FA%2F50%2FA50_aaroads1.jpg&hash=32b6498982b9c934163d73e96a3a964fb08dd0da)
Is that a double yellow line that takes up a lot of space, or two single yellow lines painted fairly close together? To ask it another way, do the lanes going in different directions actually meet halfway between the yellow lines, or do they stop at the yellow lines with a buffer zone between?
Is there any practical difference between the two? Legally a double yellow line means the same thing in Canada as it does down here...
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 23, 2012, 12:14:37 AM
Is there any practical difference between the two?
For a driver, no. For an engineer, yes.
What is the difference? Where the join(s) in the pavement is (are)?
Quote from: vtk on June 23, 2012, 12:50:59 AMFor a driver, no. For an engineer, yes.
I don't think it would interest even an engineer. Engineers have to be more concerned about how things function, and from that standpoint there is no difference between the two interpretations. The distinction would definitely interest a lawyer or mathematician, however.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 23, 2012, 01:22:14 AMWhat is the difference? Where the join(s) in the pavement is (are)?
No. Vtk is essentially asking whether the area between the two yellow stripes is (legally) part of the traveled way. If it is, then the lanes bound each other at the precise centerline between the two yellow stripes. If it is not, then the lane boundaries are the centerlines of the stripes themselves and the area in between is a neutral zone similar to a median or areas of pavement enclosed by painted islands--do you follow? (This becomes a distinction with a difference only if abutting properties have to be made available for access by turning across the center stripe, which obviously does not happen on an
autoroute.)
Actually, since you can turn left across a double yellow, wouldn't no left turn signs need to be installed to prevent you from making a hard left to or from the ramps if it's a double yellow?
Well, yes, but since ramp geometry makes the movements you describe highly unintuitive, it would be sufficient to post just one "No left turn" sign together with a distance plate ("For X km") at each entrance to the autoroute.
Actually the ramp geometry makes it so you don't need no left turn signs at all, as there's no way to drive up a ramp like that without a u turn or violating the pavement markings (assuming u turns are even legal in Quebec).
Quote from: deanej on June 23, 2012, 01:19:03 PM
Actually the ramp geometry makes it so you don't need no left turn signs at all, as there's no way to drive up a ramp like that without a u turn or violating the pavement markings (assuming u turns are even legal in Quebec).
Huh? It's certainly legal to make a super-sharp left (e.g. on the side of a hill where the roads meet at small angles).
If I'm drawing a road in CAD, a US-style double-yellow stripe would be represented by a single line with zero thicknes, at least until I'm preparing a pictorial illustration. The width of the lane on either side of that line is measured from that single line. On the other hand, if there is a gap between two lanes, then each yellow stripe would be represented by a zero-width line for the left edge of one of the lanes. The difference becomes more important when drawing a transition between the pictured cross-section and a proper divided highway.
The reason for such marking is that there is a rumble strip between the two yellow lines.
The width of this median is probably somewhere between 0.914 and 1 metre (3 to 3.28 feet).
^That, and it could theoretically allow for a concrete barrier to be placed if the need ever arose.
Mmm...
I doubt it, since it would leave about less than 6 inches on each side to paint the markage -which is quite tight- and it is not in the habits of MTQ to have such dispositives, although one exception comes to my mind ; Avenue Souligny before its "twinning" had removable jersey barriers separating its tight and unshouldered 4 lanes, and the speed was limited to 70 km/h (45 mph).
Also, I think a guardrail such as on I-93 in Grafton County, NH would be less lethal in the case of a collision.
Anyways, the right-of-way and most structures are wide enough to allow twinning (http://goo.gl/maps/49r2), which is more plausible in the case of an "arising need" -if you believe that the past beholds the future (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=6659.msg151716#msg151716).
Some new photos of new section of A-50 between Highway 315 and Montebello:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FPQ%2FA%2F50%2FA50_cl_203-2_west_forum.jpg&hash=d8e791ba19f1af95d67fe0d099c4df3a080e522a)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FPQ%2FA%2F50%2FA50_cl_203-2_east_forum.jpg&hash=c69007b917df64c0a0b77d8c8fc99b0e0a06625e)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fasphaltplanet.ca%2FPQ%2FA%2F50%2FA50_pic1_fourm.jpg&hash=148b249d7214a9644af9512c1a5e29945fdfd0d8)
Any idea of when the new section, filling in the last gap in A-50, will open for traffic?
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on May 08, 2012, 02:06:17 PM
A few photos of Autoroute 50 between Ottawa and Montreal taken on Sunday:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FPQ%2FA%2F50%2FA50_aaroads1.jpg&hash=32b6498982b9c934163d73e96a3a964fb08dd0da)
It looks like there's enough room for a second lane off to the right. Honestly, I'm surprised so many Quebec Autoroutes are only two lanes wide, as per the discussion.
Quote from: D-Dey65 on September 15, 2012, 10:51:35 AM
It looks like there's enough room for a second lane off to the right. Honestly, I'm surprised so many Quebec Autoroutes are only two lanes wide, as per the discussion.
At least they leave the room. With the 417 corridor offering a more direct ride between Ottawa and Montreal, this would be most useful for Mirabel airport traffic heading to Ottawa, but otherwise should be the relatively lightly traveled route. Now, yes, 50 is absolutely needed given conditions on 148, but four lanes, I don't think, and neither does MTQ.
A-50 also looks a lot more interesting than ON 417.
Quote from: deanej on September 16, 2012, 12:11:57 PM
A-50 also looks a lot more interesting than ON 417.
It absolutely is.
Quote from: Steve on September 16, 2012, 02:56:40 AM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on September 15, 2012, 10:51:35 AM
It looks like there's enough room for a second lane off to the right. Honestly, I'm surprised so many Quebec Autoroutes are only two lanes wide, as per the discussion.
At least they leave the room. With the 417 corridor offering a more direct ride between Ottawa and Montreal, this would be most useful for Mirabel airport traffic heading to Ottawa, but otherwise should be the relatively lightly traveled route. Now, yes, 50 is absolutely needed given conditions on 148, but four lanes, I don't think, and neither does MTQ.
I assume the text in boldface would mean primarily commercial traffic like cargo trucks and the like? Does Mirabel even receive any passenger flights these days? I seem to recall that when Dorval was expanded the province finally quit trying to force passenger traffic to use Mirabel.
That's right. Mirabel is freight only now. And perhaps a few charter/private flights.
Quote from: oscar on September 15, 2012, 10:39:43 AM
Any idea of when the new section, filling in the last gap in A-50, will open for traffic?
A partial answer to my own question -- the eastern part of A-50 has been opened west to new exit 205 (QC 321). Still closed between exits 187 and 205 as of yesterday. That part looks almost ready, except for striping and signage.
Any word on the completion of the last remaining section of A-50?
According to an article published the 17th Ottawa-Gatineau newspaper Le Droit, no official opening date has been announced. There is some painting, signing, lighting and landscaping left to do.
According to Radio-Canada Gatineau/Ottawa, the soil conditions at kilometre 202 (http://goo.gl/maps/tpkTY) were problematic, hence the late opening. Journalist Patrick Pilon was able to walk the whole 18 kilometres (http://www.radio-canada.ca/regions/ottawa/2012/11/21/013-autoroute-50-marche-thruso-papineauville.shtml), found everything in place, except landscaping still undergoing at that very point.
I would expect mid-December, with, I presume, upcoming quality controls and ribbon cutting ceremonies.
I drove A-50 on Canada day, and there was some pretty serious construction going on just west of the 317 interchange (km 187) to remedy some settlement areas. When I drove the highway in May, I didn't recall any settlement areas along A-50 through there. It looked like construction crews were going to be installing some Styrofoam in lieu of more soil in the weak areas.
Landfill failure occurred indeed at two places.
I had to drive the thing for about 12-15 times in the last 18 months, and I'd say it worsened over 2011. In 2009, the roadway had already shown signs of wear here (http://goo.gl/maps/gjbtt).
I am surprised you did not notice ; "uneven pavment" warning signs were erect not so long after the road opened. Those bumps were quite deep.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mtqsignalisation.mtq.gouv.qc.ca%2Fmid%2Fmid-D-360.jpg&hash=bbc471a96487103370cfe95effb8abd10f07b8c5)
Anyway, I think the road was under warranty, so the contracting company had to do these bits over at their expense. But I'd have to check that out.
So, no shenanigans for the A-50 opening. The whole road is available to use, but the ribbon-cutting ceremony should take place in a week or two. The last gap was eliminated this morning at 11 o'clock. Montréal/Gatineau is now legally (id est respecting speed limits) feasible under 1½ hour, although with jams on A-15 and limited passing possibilities on A-50, it will be longer.
EDIT : I might not have made myself clear. The trip between Médéric-Martin bridge and Gatineau limits (a point between exits 174 and 171) is now just a little over 149 kilometres. Add 40 kilometres to/from dowtown Hull (say Maisonneuve boulevard tunnel) and another 20 to/from downtown Montréal (say Maisonneuve boulevard again, Peel subway station this time) via Ville-Marie and Décarie.
The construction took nearly 20 years, not counting the small stretches built in the 70's and 80's.
Here is a picture posted on Le Droit website, taken ±1 km east of R-321 last summer
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.lpcdn.ca%2F924x615%2F201210%2F16%2F600165-troncon-18-km-autoroute-50.jpg&hash=5833211369621c375508da6e712a7cf8f5066644)
Jessy Laflamme, Le Droit, ©
http://www.lapresse.ca/le-droit/actualites/petite-nation/201211/26/01-4597641-la-50-maintenant-ouverte.php
I stayed in Montebello Sunday night and drove into Hull yesterday morning at 8.........Guess I should have waited a couple of hours!
There was a lot of activity around the start of the new section and it certainly looked like something was imminent.
Very nice.
Someone mentioned why it was a "super two" and how it qualified for Autoroute status. I'm not sure on the specifics, but Canada on the whole has a very low population density compared to the United States. Much of Canada is the equivalent of driving through Nebraska or South Dakota. There just isn't the traffic to justify a complete four-lane upgrade - although the passing lanes and such will help.
ON 417/A-40 to the south is equally as nice but also barren. It goes through very few population centers for much of its length.
Quote from: Dr Frankenstein on September 18, 2012, 01:34:05 PM
That's right. Mirabel is freight only now. And perhaps a few charter/private flights.
The other end of A-50 and the beginning of the divided highway at Mirabel Airport. The Terminal Building is all but abandoned with most ramps and access points barricaded but there is sill access to the Cargo Facilities and the Bombardier Aircraft Assembly Plant and the runways are still in use.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-YZZ2zTsqh3s/ULoktK0C2iI/AAAAAAAAJYk/ylkofmKPghk/s800/terminal%25203.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-JMEU1bP6xi4/ULok2CBrgEI/AAAAAAAAJY8/e6i_XpFsm3o/s800/terminal%25205.jpg)
The concrete barrier on the right blocks access to the terminal:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-DG6oTy7Ssu8/ULoktmbvsVI/AAAAAAAAJYs/uYsnaFby3S8/s800/terminal%25201.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-E9u1PuQ96PE/ULoktPSYXfI/AAAAAAAAJYg/FuMU-e_znX0/s800/DSC09273.JPG)
Quote from: Sherman Cahal on November 27, 2012, 11:40:32 AMSomeone mentioned why it was a "super two" and how it qualified for Autoroute status. I'm not sure on the specifics, but Canada on the whole has a very low population density compared to the United States. Much of Canada is the equivalent of driving through Nebraska or South Dakota. There just isn't the traffic to justify a complete four-lane upgrade - although the passing lanes and such will help.
ON 417/A-40 to the south is equally as nice but also barren. It goes through very few population centers for much of its length.
I do not agree with that.
Let's compare apples with apples. I-86 (NY) and A-50 have pretty much the same traffic ratings schemes (5,000 vpd lowest, 10-12,000 vpd rural, 50-75,000 vpd urban) in a somewhat hilly area. In both areas the highway are going through, there is an industrial and lumber history, the economy today is more about services or high-technology and agriculture. 86 is minimum 4-lane divided, 50 is mostly 2, 3 lanes, with small marginal 4-lane divided sections.
| Density of counties crossed per superior network controlled-access highway |
| A-50 | Data source : Institut de la Statistique du Québec |
| County | Density (people/km²) | Land (km²) |
| Agglomeration of Gatineau | 758.6 | 345.1 |
| Papineau | 7.5 | 2926.9 |
| Argenteuil | 24.5 | 1236.3 |
| Mirabel | 84.8 | 483.1 |
| Average | 71.1 | |
| |
| I-86 | Data source : Wikipedia |
| County | Density (people/km²) | Land (km²) |
| Chautauqua | 49 | 2751 |
| Cattaraugus | 23.8 | 3362 |
| Allegany | 18 | 2268 |
| Steuben | 27.4 | 3608 |
| Chemung | 84 | 1057 |
| Tioga | 38 | 1344 |
| Broome | 109.5 | 1831 |
| Average | 42.8 | |
In my humble opinion, the reason for building Super-2s are beyond the simple fact that the density is low.
Here are my hypotheses :
- Canada does not have federal funding for most highways. Highways such as KH-417 and A-20 may bear the Trans-Canada shield, but they were built notwithstanding mid-sized settlements that could have been served by a highway that lately went through nowhere. Examples? Thurso, Hawkesbury, Lachute were too far from 417 to benefit from its construction. Joliette, Trois-Rivières, Donnacona, even Québec city where omitted when building the A-20 –yet a (provincial) bridge linked the north shore of Saint-Laurent river near Québec city to A-20 5 years following the A-20 construction–, even though they were living industrial cities with growing transportation needs. That also brings inconsistency, when the provincial needs and will betray the federal decisions. In eastern Canada, several instances of the TCH were built outside the city, serving through traffic but totally non-adaptive toward the local needs, often paralleling an existing road. For example, NB-2 does not dip into a city for almost all its length, except for licking the outskirts of 2 of the 3 biggest cities in the province.
- The interurban transportation demand is punctual (summer peaks) or lesser in the Ottawa/Montréal corridor, rather than Erie Lake/Hudson Valley route;
- The relationship between government authorities and roads are not quite the same in both countries, since the funding do not follow the same path. The 70's freeway moratorium in Québec allowed the province to go through horrible economical crisis without slashing in popular benefits (I won't enter in political details), and keeping the public opinion favourable toward freeway buildings (the moratorium had been declared when popular demand for stopping of the A-720 eastern extension were intense because of harsh expropriation). The Super-2 is a choice of building smaller, cheaper highways, not a response to a reduced need.
But those are hypotheses.
Great pictures,
AsphaltPlanet. They really show the vacuity of the place. I saw most of the signs you pictured patched twice or three times with foreign signs for cinematographic sets, as the empty airport is made available for filming. Once, it seemed to me that Austrian signs were put up.