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[Grzrd]

This Roanoke Times editorial suggests that a short extension of I-581 into Franklin County could trigger a redesignation of I-581 as I-73:

... Roanoke City Council will make some noise and call for the construction of Interstate 73 from Interstate 81 to the state border. Not that council members realistically expect to see the entirety of it this decade or next, but any little piece will help.
Should Virginia invest in a segment that extends Interstate 581 through Roanoke County and into Franklin County, that highway could be renamed I-73. City officials flirted briefly with just asking for the name change, given its value to economic developers who could say Roanoke has not one, but two interstates. But unless the pavement lives up to the pitch, none would be fooled by the ruse ....

[froggie]

Huh...apparently to them, I-581 isn't an Interstate.  Funny, last time I checked, it was designed, built, and signed as one...

As for their claim that it could become I-73 with even a short extension, they're a bit off.  FHWA requires a logical and significant termini for new Interstates...for the most part, another Interstate, an NHS route, or a major city/installation.  Aside from VA 419 (which is still in Roanoke County), there's nothing along US 220 that would meet that criteria until Martinsville.

In other words, local officials blowing smoke because they don't know any better...

[Strider]

I am glad they didn't give up. Despite money woes, the project can easily be divided in short sections... They could extend I-581 to US 220 (by building a connector road somehow) south of Boones Hill "Boones Hill bypass". IMO, if they divide the project in short sections, they could build it with a little money they have left if any... or just put toll on it and apply for a waive to allow it to be called I-73 Toll Road.

I, for one.. wants to see I-73 built in VA as it is in NC and hopefully SC. It's just reasonable to have  I-73 start in Roanoke and end at Myrtle Beach since other states aren't too keen in building their portion.

[froggie]

They could certainly build it as a toll road...the toll road/Interstate rule bit only applies to existing Interstates built with Interstate construction money.  Issues in Raleigh, NC notwithstanding, new toll roads fully built to Interstate standards can be added to the Interstate system as non-chargeable Interstate...see I-185 SC and I-355 IL for examples.

But given the topography of the area, the resultant high cost of construction, and the relative lack of heavy traffic, there's no way an I-73 toll road would generate enough money to repay the construction bonds...public money would still have to be used.  See US 460 for an ongoing/current example.

[Henry]

Seeing that the Greensboro Urban Loop is continuing to take shape, I wouldn't be surprised if they completed the link to Roanoke a decade from now.

[CanesFan27]

Seeing that the Greensboro Urban Loop is continuing to take shape, I wouldn't be surprised if they completed the link to Roanoke a decade from now.

Bookmarked via microsoft OneNote on my I-73 notes page.  I'll get back to you in ten years.

[cpzilliacus]

They could certainly build it as a toll road...the toll road/Interstate rule bit only applies to existing Interstates built with Interstate construction money.  Issues in Raleigh, NC notwithstanding, new toll roads fully built to Interstate standards can be added to the Interstate system as non-chargeable Interstate...see I-185 SC and I-355 IL for examples.

But given the topography of the area, the resultant high cost of construction, and the relative lack of heavy traffic, there's no way an I-73 toll road would generate enough money to repay the construction bonds...public money would still have to be used.  See US 460 for an ongoing/current example.

What is the percentage of truck traffic along this corridor?  That matters - a lot - when discussing most toll roads.  If there is steady demand from truck traffic, then the project may work as a toll road, even if overall traffic counts are rather low.

[froggie]

If there is steady demand from truck traffic, then the project may work as a toll road, even if overall traffic counts are rather low.

Not true.  Example:  US 460, where VDOT's required contribution is still TWICE what the tolls are expected to repay.

As for your question, around 11-13% tractor-trailers on US 220 south of Roanoke.

[Strider]

VA's proposal of US 460 as a toll road is just silly. What's wrong with current US 460? is it only 2 lanes? too many business on each side? From what I see on the Google Maps, the road can easily be wided with bypasses around towns it passes (unless I'm wrong as I never been down that road)


Even though paper said 11-13% of truckers use US 220, I still see awfully a lot of trucks using the road each time I made a trip to Roanoke. The road is seriously dangerous (too many curves, which is not safe for trucks) and needed to be bypassed. If VDOT knows if they have to fix US 220, it's going to cost twice as much as building a new interstate. When I-73 is completed, more traffic will use that as it opens more mileage from North Carolina.

Greensboro Urban Loop is getting done. the I-73 connector is going to get done in a few years. so VA needs to get it going.

[cpzilliacus]

If there is steady demand from truck traffic, then the project may work as a toll road, even if overall traffic counts are rather low.

Not true.  Example:  US 460, where VDOT's required contribution is still TWICE what the tolls are expected to repay.

As for your question, around 11-13% tractor-trailers on US 220 south of Roanoke.

Note that I said may work, not would work.

From what I have read, the U.S. 460 project sounds like a loser (as a toll road) - and the Commonwealth does not have the dollars to build it as a "free" freeway.

I have never driven that part of U.S. 220, so I do not know what the terrain looks like - at least the proposed U.S. 460 route is almost flat.

[Strider]

The terrain on US 220 varies.. if you have driven on US 58 between South Hill and Emporia, or US 29 between Lynchburg and Charlottesville.. it's similar.. except there are too many up and down hills, sharp curves and a few long climb and deep downgrade (especially between Roanoke and Rocky Mount). It is definitely not flat like US 460.

[hbelkins]

It's not dissimilar to US 23 or Alternate US 58 in the southwestern part of the state.

[froggie]

If VDOT knows if they have to fix US 220, it's going to cost twice as much as building a new interstate.

Given both Interstate standards for roadways and the topography, I doubt it would cost less to build a new-location Interstate over upgrading existing US 220, where VDOT already owns right-of-way for the existing corridor.  Incremental improvements to 220 would both improve safety AND cost much less than a new-terrain Interstate.  I'd argue that the 220 corridor doesn't need an Interstate anyway....if the Triad really "needs" an Interstate connection to/from the north, upgrading US 29 would be more cost-effective (better topography plus some of it is already freeway-grade), serves a higher population level, and also has a higher traffic level to justify it.

Also, the Greensboro Outer Loop isn't getting done anytime soon, so I'm not sure what your hurry is.

[MBHockey13]

If VDOT knows if they have to fix US 220, it's going to cost twice as much as building a new interstate.

Given both Interstate standards for roadways and the topography, I doubt it would cost less to build a new-location Interstate over upgrading existing US 220, where VDOT already owns right-of-way for the existing corridor.  Incremental improvements to 220 would both improve safety AND cost much less than a new-terrain Interstate.  I'd argue that the 220 corridor doesn't need an Interstate anyway....if the Triad really "needs" an Interstate connection to/from the north, upgrading US 29 would be more cost-effective (better topography plus some of it is already freeway-grade), serves a higher population level, and also has a higher traffic level to justify it.

Also, the Greensboro Outer Loop isn't getting done anytime soon, so I'm not sure what your hurry is.

As someone who lives in Greensboro and takes US-220 to Roanoke often, as well as US-29 regularly, I disagree on both counts.

US-29 and US-220 serve different purposes. US-29 is a great alternative to I-95 to D.C. and Baltimore. US-220 serves as a direct route to I-81, which heads through Hagerstown, Harrisburg, and then connects to the Turnpike to Philly, or to I-78 to NYC. I do both trips a few times a year. US-220 has plenty of truck traffic, sharp curves, changes in elevation, and lights - not to mention heavy police enforcement in the non-bypass areas. I-73 would help alleviate much of this.

As far as the Greensboro Outer Loop is concerned, I think all segments are scheduled for completion within the next ten years. The segments between both Bryan Boulevard to US-220 and from US-70 to US-29 are going to start next year. Also, there is an escalated schedule to build the I-73 segment between Bryan Boulevard and the US-220/NC-68 Connector. This is mainly due to the increased traffic from the new FedEx hub at PTI - which will also necessitate the upgrades to US-220 North to Roanoke.

[froggie]

My point is that I dispute the need for an Interstate to the north, period.  The traffic volumes are not there (and the general trend nationwide for several years now has been lower VMT, not higher), with much of the traffic that is there being local in nature to begin with...I doubt there's enough through traffic to justify a new route.  And every issue you cite with US 220 can be solved with incremental upgrades that cost less than a new-terrain Interstate and can be funded more easily as stand-alone projects.

About the only thing an I-73 corridor has going for it is the truck traffic between PTI and the southern part of the I-81 corridor in Virginia.  North of about Staunton already largely goes to Dulles, which is also positioning itself as a freight hub airport.  Furthermore, this FHWA map suggests most of the freight flow in North Carolina is along I-40/85, with only a small amount of that continuing north into Virginia.

My secondary point is that if you're hell-bent on adding an Interstate, given population, traffic levels, and topography, US 29 should be the higher priority over US 220.

[CanesFan27]

VA's proposal of US 460 as a toll road is just silly. What's wrong with current US 460? is it only 2 lanes? too many business on each side? From what I see on the Google Maps, the road can easily be wided with bypasses around towns it passes (unless I'm wrong as I never been down that road)


Even though paper said 11-13% of truckers use US 220, I still see awfully a lot of trucks using the road each time I made a trip to Roanoke. The road is seriously dangerous (too many curves, which is not safe for trucks) and needed to be bypassed. If VDOT knows if they have to fix US 220, it's going to cost twice as much as building a new interstate. When I-73 is completed, more traffic will use that as it opens more mileage from North Carolina.

Greensboro Urban Loop is getting done. the I-73 connector is going to get done in a few years. so VA needs to get it going.

Doesn't North Carolina need to finish upgrading US 220 from NCC 68 to the Virginia State line first?

[Strider]

My point is that I dispute the need for an Interstate to the north, period.  The traffic volumes are not there (and the general trend nationwide for several years now has been lower VMT, not higher), with much of the traffic that is there being local in nature to begin with...I doubt there's enough through traffic to justify a new route.  And every issue you cite with US 220 can be solved with incremental upgrades that cost less than a new-terrain Interstate and can be funded more easily as stand-alone projects.

About the only thing an I-73 corridor has going for it is the truck traffic between PTI and the southern part of the I-81 corridor in Virginia.  North of about Staunton already largely goes to Dulles, which is also positioning itself as a freight hub airport.  Furthermore, this FHWA map suggests most of the freight flow in North Carolina is along I-40/85, with only a small amount of that continuing north into Virginia.

My secondary point is that if you're hell-bent on adding an Interstate, given population, traffic levels, and topography, US 29 should be the higher priority over US 220.

Well, US 29 is already on the way there. (future I-785, then possible interstate upwards to D.C.)

I don't think traffic volumes matter much anymore as freeways are being built around the United States despite all of that. Sorry if you dont like it.

[Strider]

VA's proposal of US 460 as a toll road is just silly. What's wrong with current US 460? is it only 2 lanes? too many business on each side? From what I see on the Google Maps, the road can easily be wided with bypasses around towns it passes (unless I'm wrong as I never been down that road)


Even though paper said 11-13% of truckers use US 220, I still see awfully a lot of trucks using the road each time I made a trip to Roanoke. The road is seriously dangerous (too many curves, which is not safe for trucks) and needed to be bypassed. If VDOT knows if they have to fix US 220, it's going to cost twice as much as building a new interstate. When I-73 is completed, more traffic will use that as it opens more mileage from North Carolina.

Greensboro Urban Loop is getting done. the I-73 connector is going to get done in a few years. so VA needs to get it going.

Doesn't North Carolina need to finish upgrading US 220 from NCC 68 to the Virginia State line first?

Yeah, after the US 220/NC 68 connector is finished, I-73 will stop there at least until 2020 when the remaining upgrades from there to the Virginia state line will begin. But I suspect our state is going to try to accelerate that just like they do with most road construction in the state.

[Strider]

If VDOT knows if they have to fix US 220, it's going to cost twice as much as building a new interstate.

Given both Interstate standards for roadways and the topography, I doubt it would cost less to build a new-location Interstate over upgrading existing US 220, where VDOT already owns right-of-way for the existing corridor.  Incremental improvements to 220 would both improve safety AND cost much less than a new-terrain Interstate.  I'd argue that the 220 corridor doesn't need an Interstate anyway....if the Triad really "needs" an Interstate connection to/from the north, upgrading US 29 would be more cost-effective (better topography plus some of it is already freeway-grade), serves a higher population level, and also has a higher traffic level to justify it.

Also, the Greensboro Outer Loop isn't getting done anytime soon, so I'm not sure what your hurry is.

As someone who lives in Greensboro and takes US-220 to Roanoke often, as well as US-29 regularly, I disagree on both counts.

US-29 and US-220 serve different purposes. US-29 is a great alternative to I-95 to D.C. and Baltimore. US-220 serves as a direct route to I-81, which heads through Hagerstown, Harrisburg, and then connects to the Turnpike to Philly, or to I-78 to NYC. I do both trips a few times a year. US-220 has plenty of truck traffic, sharp curves, changes in elevation, and lights - not to mention heavy police enforcement in the non-bypass areas. I-73 would help alleviate much of this.

As far as the Greensboro Outer Loop is concerned, I think all segments are scheduled for completion within the next ten years. The segments between both Bryan Boulevard to US-220 and from US-70 to US-29 are going to start next year. Also, there is an escalated schedule to build the I-73 segment between Bryan Boulevard and the US-220/NC-68 Connector. This is mainly due to the increased traffic from the new FedEx hub at PTI - which will also necessitate the upgrades to US-220 North to Roanoke.

I also live in Greensboro and I completely agreed. Can't make any judgments until you actually drove the road. Doesn't matter what paper says.

[cpzilliacus]

My secondary point is that if you're hell-bent on adding an Interstate, given population, traffic levels, and topography, US 29 should be the higher priority over US 220.

I suspect that the Piedmont Environmental Council would be most upset at any proposal to upgrade U.S. 29 to a full freeway.

[CanesFan27]

VA's proposal of US 460 as a toll road is just silly. What's wrong with current US 460? is it only 2 lanes? too many business on each side? From what I see on the Google Maps, the road can easily be wided with bypasses around towns it passes (unless I'm wrong as I never been down that road)


Even though paper said 11-13% of truckers use US 220, I still see awfully a lot of trucks using the road each time I made a trip to Roanoke. The road is seriously dangerous (too many curves, which is not safe for trucks) and needed to be bypassed. If VDOT knows if they have to fix US 220, it's going to cost twice as much as building a new interstate. When I-73 is completed, more traffic will use that as it opens more mileage from North Carolina.

Greensboro Urban Loop is getting done. the I-73 connector is going to get done in a few years. so VA needs to get it going.

Doesn't North Carolina need to finish upgrading US 220 from NCC 68 to the Virginia State line first?

Yeah, after the US 220/NC 68 connector is finished, I-73 will stop there at least until 2020 when the remaining upgrades from there to the Virginia state line will begin. But I suspect our state is going to try to accelerate that just like they do with most road construction in the state.

I don't think you will see a push for anything north of NC 68 until at least 2023.  I hope you've had practice watching the paint dry or grass grow.

[froggie]

I also live in Greensboro and I completely agreed. Can't make any judgments until you actually drove the road. Doesn't matter what paper says.

I have.  Quite a few times.  I also prefer to stick to numbers, facts, and figures over empirical evidence.  The old adage "numbers don't lie" applies.  Or do you not believe that the DOTs actually go out and do traffic and vehicle classification counts?

[Henry]

VA's proposal of US 460 as a toll road is just silly. What's wrong with current US 460? is it only 2 lanes? too many business on each side? From what I see on the Google Maps, the road can easily be wided with bypasses around towns it passes (unless I'm wrong as I never been down that road)


Even though paper said 11-13% of truckers use US 220, I still see awfully a lot of trucks using the road each time I made a trip to Roanoke. The road is seriously dangerous (too many curves, which is not safe for trucks) and needed to be bypassed. If VDOT knows if they have to fix US 220, it's going to cost twice as much as building a new interstate. When I-73 is completed, more traffic will use that as it opens more mileage from North Carolina.

Greensboro Urban Loop is getting done. the I-73 connector is going to get done in a few years. so VA needs to get it going.

Doesn't North Carolina need to finish upgrading US 220 from NCC 68 to the Virginia State line first?

Yeah, after the US 220/NC 68 connector is finished, I-73 will stop there at least until 2020 when the remaining upgrades from there to the Virginia state line will begin. But I suspect our state is going to try to accelerate that just like they do with most road construction in the state.

I don't think you will see a push for anything north of NC 68 until at least 2023.  I hope you've had practice watching the paint dry or grass grow.

But still, everyone can agree that NC is the most serious when it comes to finishing new highways, even if they don't go anywhere else (meaning they will be stuck with two horribly misnumbered Interstates forever).

[Grzrd]

The Virginia Office of Transportation Public-Private Partnerships has included I-73 as one of ten projects in the “2013 Virginia PPTA Project Pipeline." (pages 12-13/16 of pdf) :

6. I-73 Corridor (VDOT; Southwest Virginia):
a. VDOT identified the purpose and need for the I-73 Corridor to include improving safe movement of people and goods in the US Route 220 corridor, enhancing system linkage and intermodal connections, and providing for the economic growth, economic vitality and maintenance of existing economic competitiveness in southwest Virginia. The alignment approved by the Commonwealth Transportation Board and Federal Highway Administration also improves access to existing and developing industrial areas and enhances economic development in the City of Martinsville and Henry County.
b. High-Level Screening Report to be initiated to evaluate the potential for procurement of the I-73 Corridor via the PPTA or other alternative delivery methods.

I-73 is an important route in and around Greensboro.  Which is why they are currently constructing I-73 north of Greensboro now.  When Virginia gets their butts in gear and start building the freeway to Roanoke, then its existence will be less questioned (they already got an approved route: http://www.virginiadot.org/projects/resources/Salem/I-73_Map_December_2012.jpg).

(bottom quote from Interstate 73/74 thread)

This article reports that the Virginia Senate has approved a resolution establishing a joint committee to study the construction of proposed Interstate 73 to help expedite the project:

The Virginia Senate has approved a resolution establishing a joint committee to study the construction of proposed Interstate 73 to help expedite the project.
The Senate passed unanimously by a voice vote Sen. Bill Stanley’s Resolution 32, according to a news release Tuesday from Stanley’s office and the General Assembly website.
Stanley, R-Glade Hill, said in an interview Wednesday the I-73 route has been determined and environmental studies are done, and “it’s time to act.” This study will focus on how to get the proposed road built, including procurement and logistics: possible funding, such as federal bonds and state resources; and coordinating construction with North Carolina and South Carolina, he said.
“We have not up to this point had a concerted effort to work with North Carolina and South Carolina on construction of I-73,” Stanley said ....
The committee also will work to get the Commonwealth Transportation Board to place the project on the six-year road improvement plan so that it is a high priority for Virginia, Stanley said.
“It is my aim to see that the results of the I-73 study lead to the timely construction of this road in the very near future, so that we can proceed with opening up our region to the surrounding markets with a safer and more efficient road system,” Stanley stated in the release. “I remain committed to seeing to it that Virginia’s I-73 corridor becomes a reality in our lifetime.”
As a Senate resolution, neither the House of Delegates nor the governor is required to consider the measure any further, according to the release.
“SR 32 provides the necessary funding to complete a detailed study for construction of I-73. This is a key milestone in making this important interstate highway link through Southside and Southwest Virginia a reality,” Stanley said.
The study will focus on I-73 from the Virginia-North Carolina border through Southside north to I-81 near Roanoke, Stanley said.
“The first priority of the study is to focus on safety improvements along the current U.S. Route 220 corridor since the present geometric configuration of this corridor and its uncontrolled access limit the area’s ability to safely and efficiently transport goods and handle personal vehicular travel,” Stanley said ....
According to the General Assembly website, the joint committee will be limited to four meetings each in 2014 and in 2015. It must complete its meetings by Nov. 30 each year and “submit to the Division of Legislative Automated Systems an executive summary of its findings and recommendations no later than the first day of the next regular session of the General Assembly for each year.”
Direct costs of the study “shall not exceed $17,280 for each year without approval as set out in this resolution,” the website states.
According to Stanley’s news release, once the work of this committee is completed by 2015, it will present a report to the General Assembly detailing its findings on how Virginia can best accomplish the construction of I-73 in a timely manner ....
Copies of the resolution will be transmitted to the General Assemblies of North Carolina and South Carolina, “with the recommendation to appoint similar entities in their states to work cooperatively with the joint committee in promoting the construction of proposed Interstate 73,” according to the Virginia General Assembly website.

As far as I can tell, the article does not indicate what role, if any, the PPP High-Level Screening Report will play in the Committee's analysis.

[Strider]

When Virginia finally gets the I-73 project going, I think they should focus on building the short section from NC/VA state line to US 58 bypass first (bypass Ridgeway), giving them a headstart. (I know VDOT is broke, but so is other DOTs across the U.S.)


Anyways, any news on it?