The US 460/Corridor Q bridge near the VA-KY border is currently considered the top bridge project in the country according to Roads and Bridges Magazine.
The first link is from VDOT's website (http://virginiadot.org/newsroom/bristol/2014/us_route_460_connector71285.asp), but the second is from the Roads and Bridges Magazine's (http://www.roadsbridges.com/2013-top-10-bridges-no-1) website itself.
QuoteThe site is not just far away from any significant population center, it is 40 miles from the nearest town
Not true. Elkhorn City is only about five miles or so away by highway. Yes, it's a small town, but it's a town. Grundy is also closer than 40 miles by road.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 27, 2014, 09:51:23 PM
QuoteThe site is not just far away from any significant population center, it is 40 miles from the nearest town
Not true. Elkhorn City is only about five miles or so away by highway. Yes, it's a small town, but it's a town. Grundy is also closer than 40 miles by road.
Haysi (where the car I was in during the Pikeville meet ended up before taking VA 83 east back to Grundy) is not that far away either. The population is less than Elkhorn City, but it is an incorporated town though.
The Virginia CTB gave a briefing at their May meeting on the status of the segments of US 121 and relocated US 460 in Southwestern Virginia.
It's gonna be a while before there is a finished product...
The entirety of the relocated US 460 will finish first: summer 2021. One small segment is to be finished in 2015 though.
US 121 Coalfields Expwy has segments still with no timelines whatsoever...
http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/resources/2014/may/pres/Presentation_Agenda_Item_3.pdf
Mapmikey
Merged topics due to the similar subjects of US 460 (Corridor Q).
-Mark
Quote from: hbelkins on February 27, 2014, 09:51:23 PM
QuoteThe site is not just far away from any significant population center, it is 40 miles from the nearest town
Not true. Elkhorn City is only about five miles or so away by highway. Yes, it's a small town, but it's a town. Grundy is also closer than 40 miles by road.
We have plenty of highways in the United States that are more than 40 miles from the nearest city or town. That does not reduce the value of highway infrastructure.
And like it or not, the ADHS corridors (and I mean all of them) are needed and are an appropriate use of federal tax dollars.
While I admire the ADHS's ability to reduce travel times, they really have not added sustainable jobs to a region that is still bleeding them: http://www.dailyyonder.com/highways-promise-bypasses-appalachia/2012/06/18/4109
There are many factors to that, partially due to the coal industry's cyclical nature: the growth of natural gas, the decline in coal mining due to minuscule yields; the rural nature of the region; the lack of population centers (Elkhorn City will never be a job magnet and neither will other towns, like Grundy or Paintsville); the lack of available land that is preferable to manufacturers (the majority of industrial sites in Kentucky are either entirely vacant or significantly depressed).
Just building roads and industrial parks won't solve the underlying issue.
Quote from: Sherman Cahal on May 20, 2014, 11:28:15 AM
While I admire the ADHS's ability to reduce travel times, they really have not added sustainable jobs to a region that is still bleeding them: http://www.dailyyonder.com/highways-promise-bypasses-appalachia/2012/06/18/4109
There are many factors to that, partially due to the coal industry's cyclical nature: the growth of natural gas, the decline in coal mining due to minuscule yields; the rural nature of the region; the lack of population centers (Elkhorn City will never be a job magnet and neither will other towns, like Grundy or Paintsville); the lack of available land that is preferable to manufacturers (the majority of industrial sites in Kentucky are either entirely vacant or significantly depressed).
Just building roads and industrial parks won't solve the underlying issue.
I agree.
But without the better highways in place, these counties will likely
never have a chance to recover in any way.
So (at least from my point of view) the highways are a prerequisite to
any additional forms of economic development.
I'd like to see the Coalfields built in my lifetime. But I doubt it. I've been all up and down those roads and they have a tough task ahead of them.
iPhone
Quote from: Arkansastravelguy on May 21, 2014, 12:28:39 AM
I'd like to see the Coalfields built in my lifetime. But I doubt it. I've been all up and down those roads and they have a tough task ahead of them.
Most of the ADHS corridors run though challenging terrain.
Certainly the two that I know best (E and H) do (or, in the case of H,
will).
But isn't that one of the compelling reasons for building them?
Not related to the construction farther west on the corridor, but it seems that VDOT and the town of Blacksburg do not agree on whether or not an interchange is feasible where US 460 Business meets US 460 north of Blacksburg (http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/blacksburg/dangerous-intersection-with-u-s-needs-another-look-edwards-says/article_cba265f9-f002-58dd-9807-76d9d7f475ac.html).
I barely ever traveled through this intersection while at Virginia Tech, but I never really noticed this intersection to be an issue outside of safety concerns.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on May 04, 2016, 04:27:48 PM
Not related to the construction farther west on the corridor, but it seems that VDOT and the town of Blacksburg do not agree on whether or not an interchange at where US 460 Business meets US 460 north of Blacksburg (http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/blacksburg/dangerous-intersection-with-u-s-needs-another-look-edwards-says/article_cba265f9-f002-58dd-9807-76d9d7f475ac.html).
I barely ever traveled through this intersection while at Virginia Tech, but I never really noticed this intersection to be an issue outside of safety concerns.
The intersection is not a traffic issue itself (except perhaps on football days, but where isn't there a traffic issue then?), but I believe the town wants an interchange specifically to address those safety concerns, which includes really poor visibility for those turning off of North Main onto the bypass. Otherwise, an interchange seems like overkill. However, VDOT's current plans for the intersection involve removing the left-turn movement from North Main, meaning that traffic wishing to head east on 460 would have to drive west most of the way up the ridge before being able to turn around, so i feel like neither is a particularly satisfying resolution. Perhaps a lighted intersection with jughandles might work?
Quote from: Thing 342 on May 07, 2016, 11:10:27 PM
The intersection is not a traffic issue itself (except perhaps on football days, but where isn't there a traffic issue then?), but I believe the town wants an interchange specifically to address those safety concerns, which includes really poor visibility for those turning off of North Main onto the bypass. Otherwise, an interchange seems like overkill. However, VDOT's current plans for the intersection involve removing the left-turn movement from North Main, meaning that traffic wishing to head east on 460 would have to drive west most of the way up the ridge before being able to turn around, so i feel like neither is a particularly satisfying resolution. Perhaps a lighted intersection with jughandles might work?
The concern from residents is that the band-aid fix of eliminating left turns at a bad intersection will have a positive effect on reducing accidents, which is good -- but by reducing accidents at a bad intersection, the scoring VDOT uses to spend money will be impacted to the point that a better fix (an interchange) won't be seen as needed. There is an idea that if money is to be spent, it should be put toward doing the right thing and not just spending the minimum on an "easy" solution.
The 460 bypass around Blacksburg was built in the late '60s and was a bit of an anomaly in that what intersections there are were at grade (with plans to build interchanges "later"). Apparently no one thought the town and Virginia Tech would grow the way it did, so the necessary interchanges weren't built at the time. It wasn't until 10 years later that the traffic light at Prices Fork Road was removed when an overpass and ramps were built. It took a number of bad wrecks and several deaths to get the interchange at Toms Creek Rd. 10-15 years later. The major entrance to the Virginia Tech campus, Southgate Drive, did get a traffic light and construction is finally underway to convert this bad intersection to an interchange. The south end where it merged into S. Main St. was "fixed" about 10 years ago when the "connect the bypasses" project was built to provide a full limited-access highway between Blacksburg and I-81 at Christiansburg.
To many in Richmond and Northern Virginia, the state ends somewhere west of Charlottesville (like Staunton) while to others Roanoke is the last piece of civilization and anything beyond there is terra incognito.
Bruce in Blacksburg
QuoteTo many in Richmond and Northern Virginia, the state ends somewhere west of Charlottesville (like Staunton) while to others Roanoke is the last piece of civilization and anything beyond there is terra incognito.
(speaking from experience) To many in Northern Virginia, they are very well aware that there is state beyond Roanoke, as the financial tax straws tend to drain in a southwestward direction...
Quote from: froggie on May 18, 2016, 07:19:13 AM
(speaking from experience) To many in Northern Virginia, they are very well aware that there is state beyond Roanoke, as the financial tax straws tend to drain in a southwestward direction...
Actually, that should read "some" instead of "many." Years ago when middle son was playing travel soccer, we had a state cup game scheduled for Manassas that was rained out. When the manager for the other team contacted our manager about a reschedule, she said, "It shouldn't be a problem should it? Blacksburg is just on the other side of Harrisonburg, right?" Well, yeah, relative to Memphis, Blacksburg and Harrisonburg are not that far apart.
Time is relative. When you live in a suburb where an hour-long commute is the norm, a 2-hour drive to get to a soccer game doesn't seem like a big deal.
Quote from: froggie on May 18, 2016, 11:48:25 AM
Time is relative. When you live in a suburb where an hour-long commute is the norm, a 2-hour drive to get to a soccer game doesn't seem like a big deal.
Except Blacksburg-Manassas is something like a four-hour drive.
That said I'm not sure a particularly elaborate treatment is needed at the north side of Blacksburg. If the major consideration is safety, the default UK solution of "slap a roundabout there" would work.
Quote from: lordsutch on May 22, 2016, 08:53:35 PM
That said I'm not sure a particularly elaborate treatment is needed at the north side of Blacksburg. If the major consideration is safety, the default UK solution of "slap a roundabout there" would work.
I don't think that would work in that location, as you have a two-lane route (Business 460) terminating at a four-lane route. Best solution would be to signalize the intersection with a permitted phase on eastbound 460 for a left turn, and a longer merge lane for left turns from Business 460 onto the four-lane and keep a permanent green for through eastbound traffic because of that intersection's location at the bottom of a mountain.
QuoteI don't think that would work in that location, as you have a two-lane route (Business 460) terminating at a four-lane route.
Plenty of roundabouts that are at the junctions of a 2-lane and 4-lane route. This isn't really a valid argument.
Furthermore, a "permanent green" would be difficult given that the intersection is actually a 4-way intersection with a cul de sac residential (and farm) road to the west. I suppose you could make that part a RIRO, but then you'd need to build J-turns on either side...requiring traffic to go the 1.7 miles down to the Toms Creek Rd interchange would be unacceptable.
Also, while you're correct that you're overall coming down off a mountain, eastbound traffic is actually on a slight uphill grade for the last 2000ft before you reach the BUS 460 intersection.
Quote from: froggie on May 23, 2016, 01:47:18 PM
QuoteI don't think that would work in that location, as you have a two-lane route (Business 460) terminating at a four-lane route.
Plenty of roundabouts that are at the junctions of a 2-lane and 4-lane route. This isn't really a valid argument.
I think HB was referring to the fact that the US 460 freeway section ends there. Note that the speed limit on US 460 WB drops from 65 to 55 before the US 460 BUS intersection, but I am unsure about the validity of roundabouts in that situation. (I guess how the soon-to-be-constructed one on US 222 at PA 662 north of Fleetwood works may factor into my thoughts hear moving forward.)
QuoteI think HB was referring to the fact that the US 460 freeway section ends there.
In his post, his main concern was eastbound traffic, which is not coming from a freeway section. Nevermind that the "end" of I-587 in Kingston, NY has a roundabout, so there's already precedent. The M-5 stub off I-96 outside Detroit also ends at a roundabout, though technically that's not a freeway (but is limited-access).
Is it optimum? No. An interchange would be optimum. But given the topography, an interchange would be very difficult. I'm not saying a roundabout is a good idea, but HB's arguments against it don't hold water.
I think the best bet in the short term is to close off the median and construct J-turns on either side.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on May 04, 2016, 04:27:48 PM
Not related to the construction farther west on the corridor, but it seems that VDOT and the town of Blacksburg do not agree on whether or not an interchange is feasible where US 460 Business meets US 460 north of Blacksburg (http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/blacksburg/dangerous-intersection-with-u-s-needs-another-look-edwards-says/article_cba265f9-f002-58dd-9807-76d9d7f475ac.html).
I barely ever traveled through this intersection while at Virginia Tech, but I never really noticed this intersection to be an issue outside of safety concerns.
Ultimately VDOT presented plans for an interchange here (http://www.roanoke.com/townnews/highway/public-gets-look-at-four-scenarios-to-improve-dangerous-blacksburg/article_9f66a5c5-2682-5a69-a4e5-e97c1efe42ca.html) to the town of Blacksburg at a public forum last night.
Currently there are four alternatives, I think Alternatives 1 and 3 (Alternative 3 is the same as Alternative 1 minus the roundabout) are the best choices considering that I cannot truly understand Alternative 2 via the map and Alternative 4 creates a connection to US 460 Bus south of the current intersection that would require Farmingdale Dr traffic to turnaround there (plus cul-de-sac Main St at the current intersection).
All alternatives but Alternative 4 have an optional connection to Bishop Rd due to plans to cul-de-sac the road at its current US 460 intersection.
EDIT: The disagreement between VDOT and the town of Blacksburg continues. (http://www.wdbj7.com/content/news/Blacksburg-divers-irritated-after-VDOT-chooses-old-intersection-renovation-plan-407824625.html) VDOT apparently wants the old Restricted Crossing U-Turn Intersection Plan.
Well Blacksburg ultimately approved the R-Cut design VDOT anyway. (http://wsls.com/2017/03/28/blacksburg-approves-r-cut-design-for-460north-main-intersection/)
Quote from: lordsutch on May 22, 2016, 08:53:35 PM
Quote from: froggie on May 18, 2016, 11:48:25 AM
Time is relative. When you live in a suburb where an hour-long commute is the norm, a 2-hour drive to get to a soccer game doesn't seem like a big deal.
Except Blacksburg-Manassas is something like a four-hour drive.
That said I'm not sure a particularly elaborate treatment is needed at the north side of Blacksburg. If the major consideration is safety, the default UK solution of "slap a roundabout there" would work.
The above is a series of long-ago posts, but since the thread has been revived.... I think a lot of people in Northern Virginia are aware of the existence of Southwest Virginia but have no idea of the distances involved beyond perhaps the most direct route to the Blacksburg area (due of course to VPI being there). It's approximately 375 miles from Fairfax City to the Tennessee state line on I-81 near Bristol and a good bit further to Cumberland Gap. To a lot of people (not to most people on this forum, of course) that's a full day's drive, and I think most people in Northern Virginia have more of a sense for the distance down I-95 or down to the Tidewater area en route to the Outer Banks, simply because most of them never have any reason to head southwest.
It never ceases to surprise me how many people are ignorant of geography and of alternate routes. I know quite a few people who are unaware there are ways other than Route 29 to get to Charlottesville, and I remember when a former colleague wrote in to Dr. Gridlock in response to his Thanksgiving travel tips column saying she was astonished to learn you don't have to take the Jersey Turnpike to get to New York.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on March 29, 2017, 06:53:41 AM
Well Blacksburg ultimately approved the R-Cut design VDOT anyway. (http://wsls.com/2017/03/28/blacksburg-approves-r-cut-design-for-460north-main-intersection/)
Here is another report on this mess: http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/blacksburg/problem-blacksburg-intersection-fix-back-to-start/article_bb9264a7-304f-5f3e-bed9-fa1eee8190a9.html (http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/blacksburg/problem-blacksburg-intersection-fix-back-to-start/article_bb9264a7-304f-5f3e-bed9-fa1eee8190a9.html) which even includes comments from Arf Kohkar (an outspoken DIG driver on misc.transport.road) explaining that people should just drive better through that intersection.
It is a bad intersection, despite trying to drop the westbound speed limit from 65 to 55 and adding flashing signs. It only takes a split second of a driver on 460 not paying close attention and a driver making a turn not paying close attention and another wreck is in the books.
It is a long-standing problem and the grade-separated solution wasn't helped by a lack of support (or response) from the Salem District reps on the transportation board and the initial actions of the Blacksburg Town Council to accept the initial R-cut plan without much citizen input. The matter wasn't helped when the New River Valley MPO weighed in and pushed for completion of the Smart Road to I-81 http://www.roanoke.com/news/education/higher_education/virginia_tech/montgomery-county-restarts-call-for-million-smart-road-connector-to/article_5841f8f9-a8ed-509c-911c-7ce0e7820ae3.html (http://www.roanoke.com/news/education/higher_education/virginia_tech/montgomery-county-restarts-call-for-million-smart-road-connector-to/article_5841f8f9-a8ed-509c-911c-7ce0e7820ae3.html). This isn't over yet.
Bruce in Blacksburg
Thread bump...
VDOT is planning a ribbon-cutting for the big bridge(s) at the state line, with KYTC providing support. No date has yet been set, but it will probably be this fall. Going to be a huge event, with the governors and applicable federal officeholders (senators and representatives) from both states. Tentative plan is to hold it near the state line, which is the northwestern end of the bridge, with an inclement weather location indoors at Breaks Interstate Park. It's contingent on Kentucky finishing the access ramp from KY 80 near Elkhorn City to the segment that's already been built on this side of the state line. This is near the KY 1353 intersection, for those who attended my meet with this project as a focal point. We saw the bridges that had been built over KY 1353 but weren't yet open to traffic.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 15, 2020, 02:02:03 PM
Thread bump...
VDOT is planning a ribbon-cutting for the big bridge(s) at the state line, with KYTC providing support. No date has yet been set, but it will probably be this fall. Going to be a huge event, with the governors and applicable federal officeholders (senators and representatives) from both states. Tentative plan is to hold it near the state line, which is the northwestern end of the bridge, with an inclement weather location indoors at Breaks Interstate Park. It's contingent on Kentucky finishing the access ramp from KY 80 near Elkhorn City to the segment that's already been built on this side of the state line. This is near the KY 1353 intersection, for those who attended my meet with this project as a focal point. We saw the bridges that had been built over KY 1353 but weren't yet open to traffic.
Will the new US 460 be done all the way to US 23 or just to Elkhorn City?
I had no idea that the tallest bridge in Virginia is on US 460: https://www.wymt.com/content/news/Tallest-bridge-in-Virginia-may-finally-open-to-traffic-next-year-510372791.html
Quote from: Bitmapped on January 15, 2020, 07:36:34 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 15, 2020, 02:02:03 PM
Thread bump...
VDOT is planning a ribbon-cutting for the big bridge(s) at the state line, with KYTC providing support. No date has yet been set, but it will probably be this fall. Going to be a huge event, with the governors and applicable federal officeholders (senators and representatives) from both states. Tentative plan is to hold it near the state line, which is the northwestern end of the bridge, with an inclement weather location indoors at Breaks Interstate Park. It's contingent on Kentucky finishing the access ramp from KY 80 near Elkhorn City to the segment that's already been built on this side of the state line. This is near the KY 1353 intersection, for those who attended my meet with this project as a focal point. We saw the bridges that had been built over KY 1353 but weren't yet open to traffic.
Will the new US 460 be done all the way to US 23 or just to Elkhorn City?
Just to Elkhorn City. The portion from KY 195 to KY 80 is under construction. It will include the tallest bridge in Kentucky (over Pond Creek of Draffin).
Route 460 Connector Phase I opens in Buchanan County (https://www.virginiadot.org/newsroom/bristol/2020/route-460-connector-phase-i-opens-in-buchanan-county11-16-2020.asp)
QuoteBRISTOL, Va. — The tallest bridges in Virginia opened to traffic today (November 16), marking a major milestone in the effort to build a new transportation corridor in the Appalachian region.
The Virginia Department of Transportation's (VDOT) Route 460 Connector Phase I project, located near Breaks Interstate Park, is the first portion of federally-designated Corridor Q in Virginia between Grundy, Va., and Kentucky to open to traffic. At 265-feet high and 1,733-feet long, the twin bridges over Grassy Creek are the tallest in the Commonwealth.
Route 460 Phase 1 is approximately 1-mile in length. In addition to the bridges over Grassy Creek, the project includes an access ramp and bridge over Hunts Creek and Route 768 to access Route 80 and nearby Breaks Interstate Park.
The project began as a design-build project in 2009, awarded to Bizzack Construction, LLC, Lexington, Ky. Construction concluded in 2015.
VDOT and the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet coordinated the opening of the Route 460 Connector with the opening of a portion of Kentucky's Route 460 work.
"Kentucky's milestone of completing a portion of new Route 460 from the state line to near Elkhorn City meant VDOT would be able to open Phase I, greatly improving access for local motorists," Acting Major Projects Program Manager Marty Halloway, P.E. said.
Including Phase I, just under 10 miles of Corridor Q in Virginia has been constructed to rough grade, with three additional miles of construction underway on the Route 460/121 Poplar Creek Phase A project in Buchanan County.
In 2023, all the projects currently completed to rough grade will be paved and open to traffic from the state line to Route 744 at Southern Gap.
"Current circumstances created by the pandemic kept us from formally celebrating this milestone, we are looking forward to celebrating the opening of 10 miles of Corridor Q in the near future," VDOT Bristol District Administrator Donny Necessary said.
Needless to say, the road opened without ceremony. Kentucky was planning a socially-distanced caravan driving event to note the road's opening, but even that got scuttled.
Not sure when I'll get down to check it out, given that I'm still having car trouble.
Bumping to note the opening of another section of Corridor Q in Virginia.
https://www.wymt.com/2023/11/14/caution-urged-after-new-road-opens-connecting-states-around-breaks-interstate-park/?fbclid=IwAR3-jutauu9Mz-dYEYXXUiUPobMYQxdbBmH4nQPeKKO0zY3Ys18CKpMJ0UA
(There's a unisign US 460 marker at the end of the VA 80 connector that has erroneous VA 460 signs posted.)
I had every intention of making it down there over the long weekend to check the new road out, but I got hit with either a nasty stomach bug or an intense case of food poisoning the Tuesday night before Thanksgiving and was pretty well out of commission the rest of the week and the weekend. God willing, I plan to go check it out Saturday.
Google Maps has the new alignment now visible. It ends at Virginia SR 604.
Quote from: hbelkins on November 30, 2023, 02:47:58 PM
Bumping to note the opening of another section of Corridor Q in Virginia.
https://www.wymt.com/2023/11/14/caution-urged-after-new-road-opens-connecting-states-around-breaks-interstate-park/?fbclid=IwAR3-jutauu9Mz-dYEYXXUiUPobMYQxdbBmH4nQPeKKO0zY3Ys18CKpMJ0UA
(There's a unisign US 460 marker at the end of the VA 80 connector that has erroneous VA 460 signs posted.)
I had every intention of making it down there over the long weekend to check the new road out, but I got hit with either a nasty stomach bug or an intense case of food poisoning the Tuesday night before Thanksgiving and was pretty well out of commission the rest of the week and the weekend. God willing, I plan to go check it out Saturday.
Google Maps has the new alignment now visible. It ends at Virginia SR 604.
It wouldn't surprise me if the road is being intentionally posted as VA 460 until it connects with US 460 at Grundy.
I was wrong. The road is only open to SR 744. It's paved and striped beyond the SR 744 intersection but it's well-blocked off.
Every sign along the route is posted VA 460, and out of nowhere as you head east, US 121 is also signed.
The road is not four lanes all the way. The four-lane ends just past the VA 80 Breaks connector and the rest of the route, with the exception of a divided portion at the SR 609 intersection, is two lanes with a truck passing lane in spots and not much room for a full widening to four lanes evident.
I'll have a more detailed report later.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 02, 2023, 10:24:55 PM
I was wrong. The road is only open to SR 744. It's paved and striped beyond the SR 744 intersection but it's well-blocked off.
Every sign along the route is posted VA 460, and out of nowhere as you head east, US 121 is also signed.
The road is not four lanes all the way. The four-lane ends just past the VA 80 Breaks connector and the rest of the route, with the exception of a divided portion at the SR 609 intersection, is two lanes with a truck passing lane in spots and not much room for a full widening to four lanes evident.
I'll have a more detailed report later.
The US 121 posting is a surprise, as only the US 460 overlay portion of it is even funded in Virginia. Hope you got pictures in case it doesn't last. Not sure when I'll be able to get out that way.
I'm also wondering if SR 744 will be put into the primary system as a connector to VA 83.
I foolishly posted on Facebook after seeing the article in the Sign Errors group. Nope, it's not an "error."
Quote from: hbelkins on December 02, 2023, 10:24:55 PM
I was wrong. The road is only open to SR 744. It's paved and striped beyond the SR 744 intersection but it's well-blocked off.
Every sign along the route is posted VA 460, and out of nowhere as you head east, US 121 is also signed.
The road is not four lanes all the way. The four-lane ends just past the VA 80 Breaks connector and the rest of the route, with the exception of a divided portion at the SR 609 intersection, is two lanes with a truck passing lane in spots and not much room for a full widening to four lanes evident.
I'll have a more detailed report later.
Thanks for that!
I read a while back that most of the remaining sections would be two lanes, and Google Maps shows single and dual sections of the proposed route on its maps.
Quote from: Mapmikey on December 02, 2023, 10:59:45 PMThe US 121 posting is a surprise, as only the US 460 overlay portion of it is even funded in Virginia. Hope you got pictures in case it doesn't last. Not sure when I'll be able to get out that way.
I'm also wondering if SR 744 will be put into the primary system as a connector to VA 83.
Is VA 744 that haul road that's VA 604 and VA 718 further south? It must be. That's also the closest match to the 8.7 miles mentioned in the article. Maybe that included paving part of the haul road, too.
As far as putting it into the primary system, I'll go one better: why not move US 460 to it and VA 83 there once the last section of new 460 in Kentucky is open? Google's alternate route from the end of KY 3174 to Grundy is already only marginally inferior to using existing 460, and a 83-744 route would be much better except for traffic headed for Grundy. Grundy traffic could use VA 609 or 604.
Not sure when the gap in Kentucky's portion is supposed to open, but the extension of this newly opened segment connect to US 460 directly just north of Grundy is scheduled to open in 2027.
https://virginiadot.org/projects/resources/Bristol/CorridorQ/CFX_Project_Status-October_2023_acc100623_PM.pdf
Quote from: Mapmikey on December 03, 2023, 08:19:20 PM
Not sure when the gap in Kentucky's portion is supposed to open, but the extension of this newly opened segment connect to US 460 directly just north of Grundy is scheduled to open in 2027.
https://virginiadot.org/projects/resources/Bristol/CorridorQ/CFX_Project_Status-October_2023_acc100623_PM.pdf
Thanks!
Quote from: Mapmikey on December 01, 2023, 02:49:46 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 30, 2023, 02:47:58 PM
Bumping to note the opening of another section of Corridor Q in Virginia.
https://www.wymt.com/2023/11/14/caution-urged-after-new-road-opens-connecting-states-around-breaks-interstate-park/?fbclid=IwAR3-jutauu9Mz-dYEYXXUiUPobMYQxdbBmH4nQPeKKO0zY3Ys18CKpMJ0UA
(There's a unisign US 460 marker at the end of the VA 80 connector that has erroneous VA 460 signs posted.)
I had every intention of making it down there over the long weekend to check the new road out, but I got hit with either a nasty stomach bug or an intense case of food poisoning the Tuesday night before Thanksgiving and was pretty well out of commission the rest of the week and the weekend. God willing, I plan to go check it out Saturday.
Google Maps has the new alignment now visible. It ends at Virginia SR 604.
It wouldn't surprise me if the road is being intentionally posted as VA 460 until it connects with US 460 at Grundy.
It also wouldn't surprise me if they change existing 460 to VA 460 once the new route is finished.
It's an instance like this where they should make the old route either US-460 Alt or just unsign it.
VA-460 and US-460 parallel is very confusing.
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 04, 2023, 12:53:06 PM
It's an instance like this where they should make the old route either US-460 Alt or just unsign it.
VA-460 and US-460 parallel is very confusing.
Opening up mapmikey's VA 360 (http://vahighways.com/route-log/va360.htm) page just now, I did not realize that VDOT intended VA 360 to be US 360 ALT, but went with VA 360 after AASHTO denied US 360 ALT.
Photos are on my Flickr page. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/hbelkins/albums/72177720313111197/with/53373763434)
Here's a longer recap of the trip.
I entered Virginia on VA 80, which is still fully signed as such.
Signage on the eastbound US 460 routing is unchanged pre-opening. There's no indication of VA 80 from the new route going east. There is signage westbound for VA 80.
Shortly beyond the VA 80 Breaks connector, the road narrows to two lanes with a truck lane. The only other divided section is at the SR 609 intersection.
The US 121 sign just appears randomly. There's no evidence of an intersection (either planned or currently under construction) at the point where US 121 will join the concurrency.
As noted previously, the route ends at SR 744, also known as Southern Gap Road. This road serves a park/athletic complex and an ATV trail venture and terminates at VA 83 west of Vansant. It's in terrible shape; very rough with uneven pavement. It needs to be resurfaced if it's going to serve as the major traffic connector between the new US 460 and existing US 460. I drove it down to VA 83 and back as far north as SR 604 (Poplar Creek Road), which I then took to US 460. There is construction ongoing where the new US 460 will cross SR 604, but even when that construction is complete, 604 won't be a viable access route to existing US 460 due to the narrowness of the highway, so it makes sense to close the new route at SR 744.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 04, 2023, 02:24:23 PM
Photos are on my Flickr page. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/hbelkins/albums/72177720313111197/with/53373763434)
Here's a longer recap of the trip.
I entered Virginia on VA 80, which is still fully signed as such.
Signage on the eastbound US 460 routing is unchanged pre-opening. There's no indication of VA 80 from the new route going east. There is signage westbound for VA 80.
Shortly beyond the VA 80 Breaks connector, the road narrows to two lanes with a truck lane. The only other divided section is at the SR 609 intersection.
The US 121 sign just appears randomly. There's no evidence of an intersection (either planned or currently under construction) at the point where US 121 will join the concurrency.
As noted previously, the route ends at SR 744, also known as Southern Gap Road. This road serves a park/athletic complex and an ATV trail venture and terminates at VA 83 west of Vansant. It's in terrible shape; very rough with uneven pavement. It needs to be resurfaced if it's going to serve as the major traffic connector between the new US 460 and existing US 460. I drove it down to VA 83 and back as far north as SR 604 (Poplar Creek Road), which I then took to US 460. There is construction ongoing where the new US 460 will cross SR 604, but even when that construction is complete, 604 won't be a viable access route to existing US 460 due to the narrowness of the highway, so it makes sense to close the new route at SR 744.
That really is a random place for a US 121 sign. The pictures are really appreciated, though. It really does look like this is in fact a new VA 460 (at least until it's finished).
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 04, 2023, 12:53:06 PM
It's an instance like this where they should make the old route either US-460 Alt or just unsign it.
VA-460 and US-460 parallel is very confusing.
I agree, and 460 Alt does make the most sense (unless there's a shared route number between Kentucky and Virginia that's out of service in both states), but VDOT has shown with US/VA 360 that having parallel corridors with the same number doesn't bother them. Kentucky may not agree though.
The four-lane, undivided portion is interesting. I wonder if the goal is to simply add a median barrier and widen the roadway to add separation when traffic counts warrant? That's not a great design for 2023 unless it's at the crest of the hill and you have truck climbing lanes coming together - but that's not what this looks like.
Quote from: seicer on December 04, 2023, 09:15:34 PM
The four-lane, undivided portion is interesting. I wonder if the goal is to simply add a median barrier and widen the roadway to add separation when traffic counts warrant? That's not a great design for 2023 unless it's at the crest of the hill and you have truck climbing lanes coming together - but that's not what this looks like.
I've not driven it nor seen project plans, so I could be wrong - but, it looks like they're simply passing / climbing lanes that overlap.
I don't know though. I would imagine, if VDOT was smart, this would be on a four lane divided highway right of way with two initial lanes constructed.
But VDOT is currently building parts of the US-58 (a rural 4 lane 60 mph divided highway) widening over Lover's Leap as 4 lane undivided, and some with a raised curb / gutter median, so who knows.
Quote from: seicer on December 04, 2023, 09:15:34 PM
The four-lane, undivided portion is interesting. I wonder if the goal is to simply add a median barrier and widen the roadway to add separation when traffic counts warrant? That's not a great design for 2023 unless it's at the crest of the hill and you have truck climbing lanes coming together - but that's not what this looks like.
Traffic counts will never warrant four lanes there. I see this as the same concept as a 2+1 passing lane, just with passing lanes in both directions. Hopefully, lane discipline will provide the buffer between traffic in opposing directions. I don't know about left turns, though. Is it limited access? I'm guessing yes.
The Virginia Geographic Information Network has imagery from 2023 that shows the new alignment: https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=ecbe98f98c5d4d07a0724d6dffb543c1¢er=-9160039.2439%2C4482199.8438%2C102100&level=16 (click the Basemap Gallery to switch to the most recent imagery)
The four-lane seems to end just past the Kentucky border. Unless VDOT plans to expand the roadway width and add a median barrier, I don't see any indication of a second carriage way graded. The aerial is not detailed enough to show right-of-way boundaries marked.
Quote from: seicer on December 05, 2023, 08:50:05 PM
The Virginia Geographic Information Network has imagery from 2023 that shows the new alignment: https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=ecbe98f98c5d4d07a0724d6dffb543c1¢er=-9160039.2439%2C4482199.8438%2C102100&level=16 (click the Basemap Gallery to switch to the most recent imagery)
The four-lane seems to end just past the Kentucky border. Unless VDOT plans to expand the roadway width and add a median barrier, I don't see any indication of a second carriage way graded. The aerial is not detailed enough to show right-of-way boundaries marked.
Kentucky built most of its ADHS corridors as two-lane routes. Only US 23 and the most recent additions to the system, US 119 and US 460 in Pike County, were built as full four-lane routes.
Virginia, on the other hand, has to date built all of its corridors as four-lanes, along with a number of other routes such as US 58, Alternate US 58, and US 19 in southwestern Virginia. So it seems odd that they would leave the final segment of US 460 as a two-lane route.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 06, 2023, 03:15:26 PM
Virginia, on the other hand, has to date built all of its corridors as four-lanes, along with a number of other routes such as US 58, Alternate US 58, and US 19 in southwestern Virginia. So it seems odd that they would leave the final segment of US 460 as a two-lane route.
In 2019, US 460 only had 2600 AADT at the Kentucky state line. It doesn't get to 5000 AADT until you get past SR 609 closer to Grundy. Traffic on VA 80 by the Kentucky line is only about 720. There's a pretty strong case to be made this road is never going to get enough traffic to justify four lanes, corridor or not.
The other thing is looking at the utility and cost of building the corridor. US 19 follows a valley, was comparably cheap to build, and diverts traffic off the overcrowded I-81 corridor. US 58/Alt 58 aren't really useful for through traffic, but they at least serve to knit the far western end of the commonwealth in to the rest of the state. Again, mostly in a valley so cheap to build.
US 460 isn't really useful as a standalone corridor between Pikeville and Bluefield. It follows an indirect routing where through traffic has other existing alternatives that are comparable in time/distance. There's nothing significant past Grundy (sorry, Breaks Park) and construction costs are high due to the terrain. The rationale for building US 19, US 58, and Alt 58 as four lanes don't really apply here.
The next segment of US 121-460 east to Grundy will be built as 4 lanes thanks to $ appropriated in the recent funding bill that averted a government shutdown.
Quote from: Bitmapped on December 06, 2023, 05:34:30 PM
US 460 isn't really useful as a standalone corridor between Pikeville and Bluefield.
Weeeeeeeell, it was for my family 1970-73 when we lived in Pikeville and visited my grandparents in Tazewell and/or Princeton. :spin:
Thanks for the photos. I have my doubts as to whether I'll ever manage to visit that part of Virginia, so I appreciate being able to see pictures here.
Quote from: Bitmapped on December 06, 2023, 05:34:30 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 06, 2023, 03:15:26 PM
Virginia, on the other hand, has to date built all of its corridors as four-lanes, along with a number of other routes such as US 58, Alternate US 58, and US 19 in southwestern Virginia. So it seems odd that they would leave the final segment of US 460 as a two-lane route.
In 2019, US 460 only had 2600 AADT at the Kentucky state line. It doesn't get to 5000 AADT until you get past SR 609 closer to Grundy. Traffic on VA 80 by the Kentucky line is only about 720. There's a pretty strong case to be made this road is never going to get enough traffic to justify four lanes, corridor or not.
The other thing is looking at the utility and cost of building the corridor. US 19 follows a valley, was comparably cheap to build, and diverts traffic off the overcrowded I-81 corridor. US 58/Alt 58 aren't really useful for through traffic, but they at least serve to knit the far western end of the commonwealth in to the rest of the state. Again, mostly in a valley so cheap to build.
US 460 isn't really useful as a standalone corridor between Pikeville and Bluefield. It follows an indirect routing where through traffic has other existing alternatives that are comparable in time/distance. There's nothing significant past Grundy (sorry, Breaks Park) and construction costs are high due to the terrain. The rationale for building US 19, US 58, and Alt 58 as four lanes don't really apply here.
Pfft. Before I-64 was completed, locals in eastern KY swore by taking US 460 from Pikeville to points east.
Quote from: mikereaser on December 07, 2023, 04:59:05 AM
Quote from: Bitmapped on December 06, 2023, 05:34:30 PM
US 460 isn't really useful as a standalone corridor between Pikeville and Bluefield.
Weeeeeeeell, it was for my family 1970-73 when we lived in Pikeville and visited my grandparents in Tazewell and/or Princeton. :spin:
Quote from: Rothman on December 07, 2023, 10:00:09 AM
Quote from: Bitmapped on December 06, 2023, 05:34:30 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 06, 2023, 03:15:26 PM
Virginia, on the other hand, has to date built all of its corridors as four-lanes, along with a number of other routes such as US 58, Alternate US 58, and US 19 in southwestern Virginia. So it seems odd that they would leave the final segment of US 460 as a two-lane route.
In 2019, US 460 only had 2600 AADT at the Kentucky state line. It doesn't get to 5000 AADT until you get past SR 609 closer to Grundy. Traffic on VA 80 by the Kentucky line is only about 720. There's a pretty strong case to be made this road is never going to get enough traffic to justify four lanes, corridor or not.
The other thing is looking at the utility and cost of building the corridor. US 19 follows a valley, was comparably cheap to build, and diverts traffic off the overcrowded I-81 corridor. US 58/Alt 58 aren't really useful for through traffic, but they at least serve to knit the far western end of the commonwealth in to the rest of the state. Again, mostly in a valley so cheap to build.
US 460 isn't really useful as a standalone corridor between Pikeville and Bluefield. It follows an indirect routing where through traffic has other existing alternatives that are comparable in time/distance. There's nothing significant past Grundy (sorry, Breaks Park) and construction costs are high due to the terrain. The rationale for building US 19, US 58, and Alt 58 as four lanes don't really apply here.
Pfft. Before I-64 was completed, locals in eastern KY swore by taking US 460 from Pikeville to points east.
Nearly 40 years ago, my brother was in a wedding in one of the Bluefields. He asked me for routing options. Having never been between Pikeville and Bluefield, I automatically said "US 52." It wasn't until many years later that I experienced for myself that I'd given bad advice, and US 460 would have been a better recommendation instead of US 119 and US 52. I don't remember if my brother drove US 52 on the return trip, or if he opted for another route, but I heard all about what a torturous route US 52 was between Williamson and Bluefield.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 07, 2023, 11:42:40 AM
Nearly 40 years ago, my brother was in a wedding in one of the Bluefields. He asked me for routing options. Having never been between Pikeville and Bluefield, I automatically said "US 52." It wasn't until many years later that I experienced for myself that I'd given bad advice, and US 460 would have been a better recommendation instead of US 119 and US 52. I don't remember if my brother drove US 52 on the return trip, or if he opted for another route, but I heard all about what a torturous route US 52 was between Williamson and Bluefield.
Sacre merde! Just Welch to Bluefield is purgatorial enough!!!
Yesterday, I visited Southern Gap to take aerial photographs of the ghost town on the mountain's summit. Here are some observations and thoughts:
- Unidentified Building on Sykes Boulevard: There's a building whose name has been removed. An abandoned car is in the parking lot, and another car, possibly for security, is stationed at the entrance.
- Infrastructure Condition: The infrastructure around Southern Gap shows signs of deterioration. VA 718 is particularly affected, with significant settling causing a rough drive. However, roads and sidewalks near residential areas and the town center are in better condition. I am concerned about the long-term stability of these structures due to inadequate land reclamation. The area is built on spoil, or crushed rock from surface mining, without sufficient geological assessments of the underlying material.
- Part of VA 718 is intended for four lanes but currently has only two.
- New VA 460/US 121 Route: Turning onto the new VA 460 (Corridor Q)/US 121 (Coalfields Expressway) from VA 718, the road extends east and transitions into a gravel path where construction is ongoing to connect with US 460 in Grundy.
- US 121 will split from VA 460 here (https://maps.app.goo.gl/HA5mGZaJXyrqcRuB9). From that point west, US 121 is unsigned. I am surprised VDOT went ahead and signed US 121 as it only exists for a mile or so between that point and VA 718; within a few years, it will only extend to Grundy. No other segments of US 121 will be built in Virginia in the foreseeable future.
- The stretch of VA 460 between VA 718 at Southern Gap and VA 609 (Bull Creek Road) at Bull Gap is a four-lane undivided highway, which continues towards Grundy. The road has limited space for expansion, which might affect future road development. North of VA 609, it becomes a conventional two-lane highway within a four-lane right-of-way, expanding to a divided four-lane road at VA 80 (Breaks Park Road).
- Kentucky's portion of Corridor Q exhibits superior design, with limited access and divided lanes using a depressed median or concrete barrier. Near Elkhorn City at Cedarville, the new US 460 bridge over Russell Fork is nearing completion.
- Rejoining US 460 (temporarily signed as KY 3174) from KY 195, the drive to US 23 was swift, featuring few intersections and some interchanges with notably sharp ramps. The design could have benefited from wider loops for easier navigation.
- The new four-lane segments of US 460 should have a speed limit of 65 MPH, in line with similar roads in western Kentucky, to bring parity to eastern Kentucky's road speeds.
On my recent trip back to the future routing of US 460, I recorded the location of the "East VA 460/East US 121" sign.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/vGf4H3cb9QddXkZT8
On November 7, 2023, officials marked the completion of a key segment of US Route 460 (Corridor Q). This segment extends from Breaks Park Road to VA Route 744 at Southern Gap, Virginia, spanning 8.7 miles, with a 2.5-mile overlap with the US 121 (Coalfields Expressway). This section signifies the initial completion of the Coalfields Expressway in Virginia. Read on: http://bridgestunnels.com/2024/01/02/virginia-opens-new-corridor-q-and-coalfields-expressway-segment/
1 US Route 460 (Corridor Q) at VA Route 609 (Bull Creek Road) in Bull Gap, Virginia
(https://i2.wp.com/bridgestunnels.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/20231217-20231217-62013-Enhanced-NR-1024x767.jpg?strip=info&w=1600)
2 US Route 460 (Corridor Q) and US Route 121 (Coalfields Expressway) west of VA Route 744 (County IDA Road) at Southern Gap, Virginia
(https://i0.wp.com/bridgestunnels.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/20231217-20231217-62006-Enhanced-NR-1024x767.jpg?strip=info&w=1600)
3 US Route 460 (Corridor Q) and US Route 121 (Coalfields Expressway) west of VA Route 744 (County IDA Road) at Southern Gap, Virginia
(https://i2.wp.com/bridgestunnels.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/20231217-20231217-61196-Enhanced-NR-1024x684.jpg?strip=info&w=1600)
4 US Route 460 (Corridor Q) and US Route 121 (Coalfields Expressway) at VA Route 744 (County IDA Road) in Southern Gap, Virginia
(https://i1.wp.com/bridgestunnels.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/20231217-20231217-61998-Enhanced-NR-1024x767.jpg?strip=info&w=1600)
5 US Route 460 (Corridor Q) and US Route 121 (Coalfields Expressway) east of VA Route 744 (County IDA Road) in Southern Gap, Virginia
(https://i0.wp.com/bridgestunnels.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/20231217-20231217-62002-Enhanced-NR-1024x767.jpg?strip=info&w=1600)
6 VA Route 744 (County IDA Road) in Southern Gap, Virginia
(https://i2.wp.com/bridgestunnels.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/20231217-20231217-61994-Enhanced-NR-1024x767.jpg?strip=info&w=1600)
Google satellite imagery around Corridor Q has just been updated, for anyone interested: https://www.google.com/maps/@37.2783469,-82.2509061,9404m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu