I'm on strike

[jeffandnicole]

Well, not any more. Kentucky outlawed forced unionization year before last.

The Supreme Court outlawed forced unionization last year nationwide.

Citation, please

Easy to find many stories on the web such as this random one: https://www.npr.org/2018/06/30/624513403/labor-clout-takes-a-hit-in-supreme-court-ruling-on-dues , but you are correct that it applies to public (government) unions, not private sector unions.

[ilpt4u]

Well, not any more. Kentucky outlawed forced unionization year before last.

The Supreme Court outlawed forced unionization last year nationwide.

Citation, please

Easy to find many stories on the web such as this random one: https://www.npr.org/2018/06/30/624513403/labor-clout-takes-a-hit-in-supreme-court-ruling-on-dues , but you are correct that it applies to public (government) unions, not private sector unions.

Yup, that was the IL case.

I am well aware of that one. It simply was not as broad a ruling as initially portrayed here

[jp the roadgeek]

The one thing about this strike is that the non-union stores around me (Price Chopper, Big Y, and some Shop Rites) are seeing an uptick in business, as well as the independent grocery stores.  I usually go to Stop & Shop for the deli meats (love Boar's Head), but with the deli closed, I'll either go to Stew Leonard's or Highland Park Market.  Also went to Shop Rite this afternoon.  The Stop & Shop near me thinks I live in Fairfield County with the way the prices have gone up; Shop Rite usually some good sales.

[KEVIN_224]

I was told that the plaza in Cromwell (CT) which had a K-Mart store will soon become a Shop Rite. (Road relate time: Close to CT Routes 372 and 3. Exit 19 of CT Route 9 is very close by.)

Berlin (CT) once had an A&P Super Foodmart. That closed on Columbus Day weekend several years ago. I really wish they'd get another supermarket in Berlin...to give Stop & Shop some more competition.

Another thing not mentioned: The cost of renovation for the S&S stores in greater Hartford. Berlin was one of several which was redone in 2018.

As for the produce question mentioned up-thread: They have the weigh and self-sticker thing in Berlin. It's just out of frame to the right in my picture.

[vdeane]

Well, not any more. Kentucky outlawed forced unionization year before last.

The Supreme Court outlawed forced unionization last year nationwide.

Technically, "forced unionization" has been illegal for longer than that.  "Closed shop" (where an employer can only hire existing union members) has been illegal since the Taft-Hartley Act was passed in 1947.  "Union shop" (which was similar but allowed people to join after being hired) was outlawed in Pattern Makers v. NLRB in 1985.  What was left (other than right to freeload) was "agency shop", which required employees to pay their share of the collective bargaining costs but did not require actually joining the union.

[jp the roadgeek]

Berlin zoning is ridiculous compared to surrounding towns.  The only real competition to Stop & Shop is Stew's, which is just over the Newington line.  The Berlin Turnpike is interesting; the Berlin stretch is quite sparse with a few retail establishments (I'm surprised the plaza with Home Depot and Kohl's got in), a Dunkin, gas stations, and mini golf courses.  Newington has all kind of retail; Walmart, Target, Lowe's, Dick's, and national chain restaurants (Friday's, Chili's, Panera, and the gamut of fast food joints).  Berlin can't even put the arches on top of the McDonald's sign (I often wondered about that sign on New Britain Rd.).  Plainville doesn't have much competition either (Big Y, Gnazzo's), but Southington does with Stop & Shop (opened in 1993 but not redone), Price Chopper (formerly KMart; opened 2004), Shop Rite (formerly Shaw's and Edwards; opened 2011), and Aldi (less than 2 years old) all on a 3 mile stretch of Queen St (CT 10).  There also used to be an A&P Super Foodmart in the plaza with Walmart (formerly Caldor) that closed around 1996 and is now subdivided into a liquor store and a gym; and the original Shop Rite location in the plaza with Bob's (formerly Ames and Zayres) that closed in the early 90's and is now a TJ Maxx.  The Cheshire side of town has absolutely nothing now with the devastating fire that destroyed Top's Market.   

[rickmastfan67]

For a period, Stop and Shop also had "weigh and tag it yourself" scales in the produce section, which would generate a price tag for the customer to place on the bag.  They were eventually taken out due to reliability and maintenance issues.

They just added those to my local Giant Eagle recently.  Haven't tried to use them yet though.

[Scott5114]

there were two managers running the whole store

If you went inside anyway, and the store was empty because all the employees were outside striking, your experience wouldn't be pleasant, either.

Or the managers would treat you with respect, and you'd have a pleasant experience.

Simple math: if there's less labor units and an equal number of customers before the strike, there's going to be upset customers at the longer checkout lines. All the while, the manager tries to figure out how to key in the produce code for kumquats, or the customers get pissed off because nobody knew how thin Mrs Smith likes her Muenster cheese cut.

Exactly my point... While it shouldn't be the case, 21st century American business has created the innovation of "managers" who don't actually manage anything other than an Excel spreadsheet, and don't know a damn thing about the parts of business they work in outside the four walls of their office. Learn to run a register? Why not ask them to lick an Ebola culture while you're at it? They'll react the same way!

Stop & Shop might have better managers than that, but I wouldn't bet too much money on that if they're the kind of company that spends money on gimmicky marketing like a robot.

[KEVIN_224]

@JP THE ROADGEEK: Thank you! I never thought of it that way! Yes, the road is the BERLIN Turnpike, yet Newington has nearly all the shopping!

Less than 10 years ago, the area next to today's Stew Leonard's expanded. The old Club 2001 was done away with. On some of that footprint now? DiBella's Subs, a relocated Bassett Furniture, and one building with Starbucks on one side and Chipotle on the other. A small building in fron has a dental office and a credit union. This is all in sight of the "BERLIN | INCORPORATED 1785 | TOWN LINE" sign, no less.

Close to that plaza and Stew Leonard's is a relocated Sam's Club. It was half a mile south in Berlin, in the plaza with Home Depot and Kohl's. There's also an L.A. Fitness, which uses the building which Service Merchandise was in years ago.

The downside? That newer plaza lost Toys R' Us and Mattress Firm in the last year or so.

But yeah...Berlin Stop & Shop needs the competition. The former A&P Super Foodmart was east of it on Webster Square Road, closed years ago. It was across from a cineplex and a car dealer. One of the two car dealers which Webster Square Road had, Acura, is now on the Berlin Turnpike, across from the Home Depot/Kohl's plaza.

[bandit957]

I don't understand why fast food workers don't unionize more.

[abefroman329]

there were two managers running the whole store

If you went inside anyway, and the store was empty because all the employees were outside striking, your experience wouldn't be pleasant, either.

Or the managers would treat you with respect, and you'd have a pleasant experience.

Simple math: if there's less labor units and an equal number of customers before the strike, there's going to be upset customers at the longer checkout lines. All the while, the manager tries to figure out how to key in the produce code for kumquats, or the customers get pissed off because nobody knew how thin Mrs Smith likes her Muenster cheese cut.

Exactly my point... While it shouldn't be the case, 21st century American business has created the innovation of "managers" who don't actually manage anything other than an Excel spreadsheet, and don't know a damn thing about the parts of business they work in outside the four walls of their office. Learn to run a register? Why not ask them to lick an Ebola culture while you're at it? They'll react the same way!

Stop & Shop might have better managers than that, but I wouldn't bet too much money on that if they're the kind of company that spends money on gimmicky marketing like a robot.

Yeah, I don't know you're actually describing service industry management, at least not restaurant/store managers; I think it's a requirement that they know how to perform all of those functions in case they need to fill in for a missing employee. Plus they need to know how to train their employees to perform those functions. That is how it was when I worked in retail and food service, although that was in the 1990s.

People love to chortle about how that stupid robot (and kiosks at McDonalds, and other automation) is the result of fights for increases in the minimum wage, but those were coming as long as they were going to be cheaper than hiring humans to perform that work.

[RobbieL2415]

Automation may eventually eliminate most service jobs. We've seen it with self-checkout. I'm assuming the same thing happened when self-serve gas pumps became a thing.  There aren't any more telephone exchange operators (and I believe they had a union). All the apps that pertain to food delivery cut out the middle man at point-of-sale.  I hear what the union is saying loud and clear, but I can't find a reason to support their cause when the jobs market is doing well and a company's primary job is to make money, even if that means changes in wages and benefits.

[hotdogPi]

Automation may eventually eliminate most service jobs. We've seen it with self-checkout. I'm assuming the same thing happened when self-serve gas pumps became a thing.  There aren't any more telephone exchange operators (and I believe they had a union). All the apps that pertain to food delivery cut out the middle man at point-of-sale.  I hear what the union is saying loud and clear, but I can't find a reason to support their cause when the jobs market is doing well and a company's primary job is to make money, even if that means changes in wages and benefits.

Automation isn't the main reason for this strike.

[Takumi]

there were two managers running the whole store

If you went inside anyway, and the store was empty because all the employees were outside striking, your experience wouldn't be pleasant, either.

Or the managers would treat you with respect, and you'd have a pleasant experience.

Simple math: if there's less labor units and an equal number of customers before the strike, there's going to be upset customers at the longer checkout lines. All the while, the manager tries to figure out how to key in the produce code for kumquats, or the customers get pissed off because nobody knew how thin Mrs Smith likes her Muenster cheese cut.

Exactly my point... While it shouldn't be the case, 21st century American business has created the innovation of "managers" who don't actually manage anything other than an Excel spreadsheet, and don't know a damn thing about the parts of business they work in outside the four walls of their office. Learn to run a register? Why not ask them to lick an Ebola culture while you're at it? They'll react the same way!

Stop & Shop might have better managers than that, but I wouldn't bet too much money on that if they're the kind of company that spends money on gimmicky marketing like a robot.

Yeah, I don't know you're actually describing service industry management, at least not restaurant/store managers; I think it's a requirement that they know how to perform all of those functions in case they need to fill in for a missing employee. Plus they need to know how to train their employees to perform those functions. That is how it was when I worked in retail and food service, although that was in the 1990s.

Still is today. I'm a manager in retail and I have at least one stint on the register almost every shift, and usually several.

[RobbieL2415]

Automation may eventually eliminate most service jobs. We've seen it with self-checkout. I'm assuming the same thing happened when self-serve gas pumps became a thing.  There aren't any more telephone exchange operators (and I believe they had a union). All the apps that pertain to food delivery cut out the middle man at point-of-sale.  I hear what the union is saying loud and clear, but I can't find a reason to support their cause when the jobs market is doing well and a company's primary job is to make money, even if that means changes in wages and benefits.

Automation isn't the main reason for this strike.

I know but it's a reason not to support it.

[1995hoo]

For a period, Stop and Shop also had "weigh and tag it yourself" scales in the produce section, which would generate a price tag for the customer to place on the bag.  They were eventually taken out due to reliability and maintenance issues.

Wegmans has those. The signs in the produce section have the PLU codes posted, so you just punch in the four-digit code, weigh your produce (or tell it how many you have, for things like lemons), and print a label. They're terrific. They make it so much faster at the checkout....if people use them. For some reason, some people do not use them, and I've even had cashiers thank me for using them. I guess maybe I can understand old ladies being confused by them or not being aware of how to use them, but otherwise, it seems to me it benefits everyone if you print a label because it speeds up the checkout (regardless of whether you're at a staffed lane or the self-checkout).

Now, the Giant grocery chain that operates in the DC area ("Giant of Landover") introduced similar scales shortly after Wegmans began operating around here, but for some idiotic reason Giant doesn't display the PLU numbers anywhere, so unless the sticker on the produce has the number (like how lemons often have an oval sticker with "4053" on it) or you know the number from buying the item regularly (such as russet potatoes being 4072), you have to wade through various screens trying to find the item–and you may not find it, such as if you call it "fennel" and you don't know that Giant insists on calling it "anise." Fine example of a half-arsed implementation of a good idea.



The recent Supreme Court right-to-work case related solely to public sector employees and the opinion holds, among other things, that public sector employees who do not wish to join a union cannot be required to pay union dues. I didn't read the whole opinion, but I believe I read that part of what motivated the lawsuit was unions using dues for partisan political advocacy–that is, support of particular candidates and the like that the non-members didn't want to support.

There was an interesting case–not from the US Supreme Court–back in the late 1980s or early 1990s that addressed a similar issue as to NFL players. The case arose after the failed 1987 NFL players' strike when some Redskins players refused to join the union and then sued when the league ordered union dues withheld from their paychecks (this because the CBA required it). Virginia is a right-to-work state and the players argued Virginia law applied on this issue, regardless of the CBA, because the Redskins were (and are) headquartered in Virginia and the players perform most of their work in Virginia due to the practice facility being here. The NFLPA argued that they're the "Washington" Redskins and they played their games in DC (back then) and DC is not a right-to-work jurisdiction. The courts agreed with the players.

[wanderer2575]

I don't understand why fast food workers don't unionize more.

Whatever you want as a worker, you have to pay for as a consumer.  How many fifteen-dollar Big Macs are you going to be buying?

[Big John]

I don't understand why fast food workers don't unionize more.

Whatever you want as a worker, you have to pay for as a consumer.  How many fifteen-dollar Big Macs are you going to be buying?

The cost would go up 4.3%.  https://www.marketwatch.com/story/raising-fast-food-hourly-wages-to-15-would-raise-prices-by-4-study-finds-2015-07-28

[MNHighwayMan]

I don't understand why fast food workers don't unionize more.

Whatever you want as a worker, you have to pay for as a consumer.  How many fifteen-dollar Big Macs are you going to be buying?

If Big Macs become fifteen dollars, there is something far, far more rotten in this country than workers demanding to be paid a living wage.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I don't understand why fast food workers don't unionize more.

Whatever you want as a worker, you have to pay for as a consumer.  How many fifteen-dollar Big Macs are you going to be buying?

I guarantee 99% of workers in that industry see unionizing as not worth it.

[SectorZ]

I don't understand why fast food workers don't unionize more.

Whatever you want as a worker, you have to pay for as a consumer.  How many fifteen-dollar Big Macs are you going to be buying?

If Big Macs become fifteen dollars, there is something far, far more rotten in this country than workers demanding to be paid a living wage.

It would raise overall prices by 4%. I know the story quotes a Big Mac in there, but in typical poor writing fashion came to that conclusion without any evidence. An average of 4% doesn't mean everything goes up that same amount. Some things won't go up at all. Some things will probably go up 50%. Depends on the margins of the business and how much of their expenses are wages.

[formulanone]

there were two managers running the whole store

If you went inside anyway, and the store was empty because all the employees were outside striking, your experience wouldn't be pleasant, either.

Or the managers would treat you with respect, and you'd have a pleasant experience.

Simple math: if there's less labor units and an equal number of customers before the strike, there's going to be upset customers at the longer checkout lines. All the while, the manager tries to figure out how to key in the produce code for kumquats, or the customers get pissed off because nobody knew how thin Mrs Smith likes her Muenster cheese cut.

Exactly my point... While it shouldn't be the case, 21st century American business has created the innovation of "managers" who don't actually manage anything other than an Excel spreadsheet, and don't know a damn thing about the parts of business they work in outside the four walls of their office. Learn to run a register? Why not ask them to lick an Ebola culture while you're at it? They'll react the same way!

Stop & Shop might have better managers than that, but I wouldn't bet too much money on that if they're the kind of company that spends money on gimmicky marketing like a robot.

Yeah, I don't know you're actually describing service industry management, at least not restaurant/store managers; I think it's a requirement that they know how to perform all of those functions in case they need to fill in for a missing employee. Plus they need to know how to train their employees to perform those functions. That is how it was when I worked in retail and food service, although that was in the 1990s.

People love to chortle about how that stupid robot (and kiosks at McDonalds, and other automation) is the result of fights for increases in the minimum wage, but those were coming as long as they were going to be cheaper than hiring humans to perform that work.

If the management is like the grocery store chain I once worked at, they're not too far removed from using the register, but less likely to handle the specialized tasks. Almost everyone is "hire from within" in that industry, unless they wear a suit jacket to work. But I think there's a bit of rustiness in not having the practice.

As for McDonald's touch-screens, I think the technological familiarity met the society acceptance point, while the prices and maintenance for those point-of-sale devices was likely less than a year's salary for a cashier. For all the flack McDonald's gets, they're remarkably quick to respond to industry changes (although I think I've only seen the touch-screens three different places in one year).

[KEVIN_224]

Day 3 of the Stop & Shop strike is winding down. It was fun to see one of the Local 371 reps having a few words with the Berlin (CT) store manager this morning. In front of at least a dozen workers. She (the union rep) wasn't too thrilled with the boss being outside checking on the employees, etc. I only caught part of it and "Ellen, PLEASE!". (Ellen is the store's manager.)

As for the McD's touch screens? They installed 4 of them at the Berlin, CT location with a renovation last summer/fall.

[vdeane]

Wegmans has those. The signs in the produce section have the PLU codes posted, so you just punch in the four-digit code, weigh your produce (or tell it how many you have, for things like lemons), and print a label. They're terrific. They make it so much faster at the checkout....if people use them. For some reason, some people do not use them, and I've even had cashiers thank me for using them. I guess maybe I can understand old ladies being confused by them or not being aware of how to use them, but otherwise, it seems to me it benefits everyone if you print a label because it speeds up the checkout (regardless of whether you're at a staffed lane or the self-checkout).

Growing up just a mile from the flagship Wegmans, I didn't even know any other way existed.  Imagine my confusion when I got to Price Chopper and the machine didn't have a "print label" button - it was only there for the shopper to know how much things would cost.  I had no idea how one was supposed to pay for such things without a label on the bag for the cashier to scan!

I didn't read the whole opinion, but I believe I read that part of what motivated the lawsuit was unions using dues for partisan political advocacy–that is, support of particular candidates and the like that the non-members didn't want to support.

Such was actually illegal already, at least for agency fee payers (I think even dues paying members, at least in NY; one of our unions here has certainly tried to get members to sign cards authorizing additional deductions for political spending often enough)... what was new is that now even the act of negotiating the contract is considered "partisan political activity" - at least for public employee unions.

[1995hoo]

Wegmans has those. The signs in the produce section have the PLU codes posted, so you just punch in the four-digit code, weigh your produce (or tell it how many you have, for things like lemons), and print a label. They're terrific. They make it so much faster at the checkout....if people use them. For some reason, some people do not use them, and I've even had cashiers thank me for using them. I guess maybe I can understand old ladies being confused by them or not being aware of how to use them, but otherwise, it seems to me it benefits everyone if you print a label because it speeds up the checkout (regardless of whether you're at a staffed lane or the self-checkout).

Growing up just a mile from the flagship Wegmans, I didn't even know any other way existed.  Imagine my confusion when I got to Price Chopper and the machine didn't have a "print label" button–it was only there for the shopper to know how much things would cost.  I had no idea how one was supposed to pay for such things without a label on the bag for the cashier to scan!

....

Heh, whereas in my case the first time I saw what I guess we can call the "label-printer scales" was when the first local Wegmans opened out near Sterling (next to the Ferrari dealer on the "I-366 portion" of VA-28). Of course I'm a bit older than you are, but when I was growing up, and even into my 30s, the grocery stores' produce scales were hanging baskets with a round analog gauge. The point wasn't to tell you what it would cost so much as it was to tell you how much of something you had–so, for example, if your recipe called for 12 oz of scallions, you could see if you had that much. I always found the scales confusing, though, because they were solely in pounds and didn't show the ounce conversions–they assumed you had been taught that as a kid (we spent minimal time on US units). Of course I guess the same is true of recipes that list everything by volume when the ingredients are sold by weight.

Even after digital scales became more common, the label-printer style didn't take hold here. Harris Teeter has, or at least used to have, a listing of all the PLU codes on a round thing above the cash register–you roll the thing around to find what you want and then enter the code. As far as I know, Giant is the only non-Wegmans chain around that has the label-printer scales, though as I noted earlier they make them hard to use because they don't post the PLU codes anywhere.

What Giant has that nobody else does is a self-scanner gun–it's optional, and if you want to use it, you scan your Giant card when you enter the store, get a gun, then scan and bag your groceries as you shop, and when you get to the checkout you just scan the "end-of-order" barcode on the gun's display and it automatically rings up all your items and you just pay and go (showing a store employee proof of age if needed for beer or wine). This brings me full-circle to this thread's subject: I have no doubt a chain like Wegmans, headquartered in a state with a much stronger union tradition and more left-leaning politics than Virginia, would be less likely to adopt the self-scanner guns because of the perception that they would take away union jobs at the checkout. (Really, think about how stupid the conventional grocery checkout is: You take all these items out of your cart so that a store employee can rearrange them, bag them, and put them back in your cart.)