Lets start a petition to cancel the holidays

[ZLoth]

I have a shocking proposition... lets start a petition to cancel all of the holidays! After all, it seems that the holidays consist of the following:

• Memorial Day - Kickoff of the summer BBQ season!
  
• Fourth of July - Glorified day off where we blow stuff up and get really drunk.
  
• Labor Day - The end of the summer blowout!
  
• Thanksgiving - The day to get stuffed, watch football all day, and prepare for Black Friday, the traditional kickoff of the holiday shopping season! Prepare for the brotherly shove
  
• Christmas - The day that families try to get along with each other, receive gifts that receive their minutes of fame, and most get forgotten after several months.
  

It gets to be crazy when you see the Christmas displays start going up earlier and earlier each year. While I can understand for the craft stores, most stores should not even be putting up the Christmas displays until November at the earliest. What was the purpose behind the holidays anyways?

[DaBigE]

• Thanksgiving - The day to get stuffed, watch football all day, and prepare for Black Friday, the traditional kickoff of the holiday shopping season! Prepare for the brotherly shove
  

At least around here Black Friday is moving to Thursday. It started as stores kept pushing their opening times earlier and earlier. Now, many are considering/will be opening during the day on Thanksgiving. Give thanks alright, thanks for the almighty greenback/CC. In that case, Thanksgiving is already on its way out.

[Duke87]

Memorial Day and Labor Day I could live without so long as I get 2 more days off from work that I can use any time instead. In fact, I'd prefer that.

But 4th of July, Thanksgiving, and Christmas are all occasions for my family. Especially Christmas. Those have to stay.

Though I will concede that as an adult where the money you spend on gifts equals the money others spend on gifts for you, and you have the income to just buy things you want for yourself, that particular aspect of Christmas does start to seem tiresome and pointless. Especially since I always struggle to figure out what to get people.

[corco]

Memorial Day and Labor Day I could live without so long as I get 2 more days off from work that I can use any time instead. In fact, I'd prefer that.

But 4th of July, Thanksgiving, and Christmas are all occasions for my family. Especially Christmas. Those have to stay.

Though I will concede that as an adult where the money you spend on gifts equals the money others spend on gifts for you, and you have the income to just buy things you want for yourself, that particular aspect of Christmas does start to seem tiresome and pointless. Especially since I always struggle to figure out what to get people.

This exactly- 4th of July, Thanksgiving, and Christmas should all stay. The day after Thanksgiving should be made a holiday- not because of Black Friday but because it makes it easier to travel a long distance to see family on Thanksgiving.

I'm not very good at/a big fan of the gift giving or gift receiving thing either.

[DaBigE]

I could go without Labor Day and Independence Day (the calendar would be kinda awkward going July 1,2,3,5,6... ). As a family member of many who have served, I think Memorial Day needs to stay (putting it nicely). As eluded to in my earlier post, I would like Thanksgiving to be retuned to its roots and not an excuse to go shopping/show the worst of humanity. And being religious, Christmas has to stay, but as an adult, I could live without the commercialization/gift exchange.

[rant]I totally side with Duke87 on the struggle of gift giving. I hate having to shop for picky people or when people give me useless crap. That's what my Amazon list is for. If you insist on not getting something off of there, at least have the decency to make a donation to a worthy cause in my name instead.[/rant]

[Alps]

free travel days to reach places that are difficult in a normal weekend = good for roadgeeks

[wxfree]

Holidays for actual things should stay.  July 4 symbolizes a very important day, even if it didn't happen to be that actual day.  Washington's birthday, Columbus Day, Memorial Day, Veteran's Day: these represent things that actually happened.  Christmas is a Catholic holiday representing the birth of the sun god.  The sun "dies," reaching its low point, on the winter solstice, then spends three days "in the grave," very near its low point, and "rises again," moving up noticeably, on the third day, December 25.  This is a fine day to celebrate if represented accurately.  The birth of Jesus, according to the New Testament, was in late September.  Celebrate it then if that's what you're looking for.  Figure out what you want to celebrate and then put it on, or near, an appropriate day.

Having commercialized holidays to buy a bunch of stuff and make a bunch of profits for big companies is, in my opinion, sad.  Any holiday that just means you buy stuff is a day we'd be better off without.

[NE2]

Washington's birthday, Columbus Day, Memorial Day, Veteran's Day: these represent things that actually happened.

But Holocaust Remembrance Day represents a lie created by the Godless Commies to bring us into the Second World War on Capitalism. No? No? Damn, tough crowd.

[english si]

Christmas is a Catholic holiday representing the birth of the sun god.  The sun "dies," reaching its low point, on the winter solstice, then spends three days "in the grave," very near its low point, and "rises again," moving up noticeably, on the third day, December 25.  This is a fine day to celebrate if represented accurately.  The birth of Jesus, according to the New Testament, was in late September.  Celebrate it then if that's what you're looking for.  Figure out what you want to celebrate and then put it on, or near, an appropriate day.

Wow, that is so historically and religiously ignorant (merging Easter in with Christmas, no Christianity but Catholicism, etc...).

The Dec 25th date, while not Jesus' actual birthday, has nothing to do with the winter solstice (which was the 25th in the Julian calendar in Roman times; and the 'third day' after in the Gregorian calendar would be the 23rd or 24th). The Annunciation, where Gabriel came to Mary to tell her she was pregnant was chosen to be Mar 25 (spring solstice) for some reason (links with Easter, IIRC) around AD100. And so Christmas had to be 9 months after that - Dec 25th. This date has references before AD200 (Irenaeus of Lyon), years before references to Saturnalia (early 3rd century) or the late 3rd/early 4th century Sol Invictus cult (which copied a lot of Christian theology and practice, and their Pagan veneer did sometimes get re-co-opted back into the Church: churches facing East, vestments, etc).

Yes it was clear that Jesus was not born in winter - and more so then when people knew more what shepherds do, yearly cycle, etc - they knew it wasn't the correct historic time of year when they set the date, but they had been painted into a corner by the other dates fixed.

[agentsteel53]

free travel days to reach places that are difficult in a normal weekend = good for roadgeeks

indeed.

even better for me, my boss lets me work the holiday and take a day off at another time... so free travel day without the holiday crowds!

[wxfree]

Christmas is a Catholic holiday representing the birth of the sun god.  The sun "dies," reaching its low point, on the winter solstice, then spends three days "in the grave," very near its low point, and "rises again," moving up noticeably, on the third day, December 25.  This is a fine day to celebrate if represented accurately.  The birth of Jesus, according to the New Testament, was in late September.  Celebrate it then if that's what you're looking for.  Figure out what you want to celebrate and then put it on, or near, an appropriate day.

Wow, that is so historically and religiously ignorant (merging Easter in with Christmas, no Christianity but Catholicism, etc...).

The Dec 25th date, while not Jesus' actual birthday, has nothing to do with the winter solstice (which was the 25th in the Julian calendar in Roman times; and the 'third day' after in the Gregorian calendar would be the 23rd or 24th). The Annunciation, where Gabriel came to Mary to tell her she was pregnant was chosen to be Mar 25 (spring solstice) for some reason (links with Easter, IIRC) around AD100. And so Christmas had to be 9 months after that - Dec 25th. This date has references before AD200 (Irenaeus of Lyon), years before references to Saturnalia (early 3rd century) or the late 3rd/early 4th century Sol Invictus cult (which copied a lot of Christian theology and practice, and their Pagan veneer did sometimes get re-co-opted back into the Church: churches facing East, vestments, etc).

Yes it was clear that Jesus was not born in winter - and more so then when people knew more what shepherds do, yearly cycle, etc - they knew it wasn't the correct historic time of year when they set the date, but they had been painted into a corner by the other dates fixed.

My intent was to mock Christmas as a commercialized holiday.  The day is often thought of as sacred and I wanted to explain why I disagreed, but should have avoided the topic of religion.  I do not disagree with the history you described and wish to advance the topic no further.

As for commercialism, I respect the need for profit, but I don't like the idea that on certain days you "have to" spend money in certain ways.  Holidays should be days of joy or remembrance, time with loved ones or road trips, or days for shopping - whatever it is that brings you a sense of a day well spent.  To the extent that a day is about that, and not getting into debt, I think it's a good thing.

[agentsteel53]

As for commercialism, I respect the need for profit, but I don't like the idea that on certain days you "have to" spend money in certain ways.  Holidays should be days of joy or remembrance, time with loved ones or road trips, or days for shopping - whatever it is that brings you a sense of a day well spent.  To the extent that a day is about that, and not getting into debt, I think it's a good thing.

I agree with you in principle, but I see no need to set bans on cultural excess.  I simply don't shop on Black Friday.  if other people want to, I say let 'em.

[wxfree]

As for commercialism, I respect the need for profit, but I don't like the idea that on certain days you "have to" spend money in certain ways.  Holidays should be days of joy or remembrance, time with loved ones or road trips, or days for shopping - whatever it is that brings you a sense of a day well spent.  To the extent that a day is about that, and not getting into debt, I think it's a good thing.

I agree with you in principle, but I see no need to set bans on cultural excess.  I simply don't shop on Black Friday.  if other people want to, I say let 'em.

I have aunts who love the shopping day.  If that's what they enjoy, and they don't let it get them into debt, then it's a good day for them.  I wouldn't want to cancel holidays, or limit people's behavior; I simply try to point out what I believe to be of value.  I'd rather go on a road trip, which works out well because the late-year holiday season is when the places I like going to aren't unbearably hot.

[ZLoth]

Though I will concede that as an adult where the money you spend on gifts equals the money others spend on gifts for you, and you have the income to just buy things you want for yourself, that particular aspect of Christmas does start to seem tiresome and pointless. Especially since I always struggle to figure out what to get people.

While I make a best attempt to match up the gift to the person, sometimes it is a struggle. My parents would criticize me for even considering a gift certificate (now called a gift card). Heck, I would be very happy to get a Amazon gift code or a Jamba Juice gift card. Starbucks is almost completely useless to me.

I also get criticized for "spending too much money on a gift". Because I make good money even after setting a good chunk aside for retirement, I have no hesitation on giving a ~$20 gift to a few good friends with an expectation that I am not going to get the same value back from them. It's usually something that they wanted and/or needed. Having said that, if you are experiencing financial hardships, I should be the last person you should be worried about getting a gift for. You need to take care of yourself first, and your family second.

Having said that, gift giving should be a small portion of Christmas, not what Christmas resolves around. Sometimes, I wonder if Christmas builds up an entitlement mentality as if you deserve a gift for being mostly good the entire year.

As a family member of many who have served, I think Memorial Day needs to stay (putting it nicely).

FINALLY someone who recognizes the real meaning behind Memorial Day. And I salute those who have served.

I agree with you in principle, but I see no need to set bans on cultural excess.  I simply don't shop on Black Friday.  if other people want to, I say let 'em.

After seeing the riots that are at some of the stores, I found out that most of the same bargains were available through Amazon. So it takes a week for me to get it. So what.

[kkt]

Thanksgiving is already on its way out.

Meh.  It had a good 150 years.

Christmas is a Catholic holiday representing the birth of the sun god.  The sun "dies," reaching its low point, on the winter solstice, then spends three days "in the grave," very near its low point, and "rises again," moving up noticeably, on the third day, December 25.

The lengthening of the days is worth celebrating.  It should be celebrated on the first day which is slightly longer than the previous day, on December 22.  That it's my birthday is of course a complete coincidence.

[kurumi]

Three fixes for Christmas:
* do away with all non-liturgical music (not setting up a theocracy; it's just that Jingle Bell Rock, Sleigh Ride, Santa Baby et al. are just terrible)
* shopping is only for kids under 18 or your SO/spouse
* no TV/radio ads until 12:01 am the day after Thanksgiving

[bugo]

How is Christmas a Catholic holiday?  If anything, it is a pagan holiday.

[NE2]

* do away with all non-liturgical music

[wxfree]

How is Christmas a Catholic holiday?  If anything, it is a pagan holiday.

Trying to avoid religion, this topic is interesting as a discussion on history.

I'm not aware of a pagan tradition celebrating Christmas, but there may be.  Pagans long celebrated that time of year as a period of increasing light, or the rising of the sun.  The term "Catholic" (meaning "universal"), I use to refer to the early post-Jewish church.  The Catholics took the Jewish practices out of Christianity and adopted other practices, some pagan.  I'm not thoroughly familiar with early Catholicism; I picked up bits and pieces in a class.  It seems like a fascinating topic I need to set to studying.  As I recall, the early Catholics wanted to appeal to the pagans they were trying to convert, and adopted their holidays in order to accommodate their lifestyles, or maybe that's just one teacher's interpretation.  I don't know the full story of how the birth of Jesus ended up in late December, but it lines up with pagan holidays celebrating the the birth (rising) of the sun.

It's a fine day to celebrate, as I really don't like the short days in late December.  I really don't even care if we put Christmas there.  I just don't like how it's portrayed as a day something happened, rather than as a day of remembrance of an event of uncertain timing.

[jeffandnicole]

I've tried asking this many times...if stores didn't sell Christmas stuff until after Thanksgiving, then what would they stock the shelves with between Halloween and Thanksgiving? 

And, if you have an answer...would you buy it? 

The true answer is...people really do buy Christmas stuff well before Thanksgiving, and the stores are just giving them what they want!  Some people won't put up a Christmas tree until Christmas Eve - some leave 'em up all year long (well, at least their icicle lights outside!).

[english si]

As I recall, the early Catholics wanted to appeal to the pagans they were trying to convert, and adopted their holidays in order to accommodate their lifestyles, or maybe that's just one teacher's interpretation.

It's the 'evolution' of religions theory. It ticked all the boxes for late 19th-century, and still ticks the boxes, for cultural acceptance: gives the neo-Paganism and mysticism shite some status as legit by making Christianity merely modified paganism, promotes political religions as the choice of progress and has evolution - the divine logos of the past 100+ years.

However, it's not accurate, as I pointed out in my previous post, the Dec 25th date for Christmas predates the pagan holiday that it was supposed to copy, and also the cult of the Sun-God.

I don't know the full story of how the birth of Jesus ended up in late December

Given above - mostly by accident coming from an early fixed date.

but it lines up with pagan holidays celebrating the the birth (rising) of the sun.

There's correlation, but the standard causation - if there is a link - is historically backwards. That Roman New Year was a week after the Roman Solstice is interesting - Julius changed the way the year went from start-of-Fall -> end-of-Summer to mid-Winter -> mid-Winter and the day from dusk->dusk to midnight->midnight deliberately (changing from a gets-worse-before-better view of the universe to a nothing-to-nothing nihilism), but didn't pin mid-Winter right on the Solstice, which would have made sense if there was a Pagan festival on that day...

The pagan stuff I can see in Christmas are as follows:

• Some Santa elements that come from Green Man traditions
  
• the commercialism, perhaps best seen by the Coca Cola Santa
  
• the naughty or nice list of Santa (Santa Clause is Coming to Town promotes a horrible view of Santa that makes him out to be Satan - someone who spys on you to catch you out. 'You better watch out' 'you better not cry' and 'so be good for goodness sake' are blatent!) and the moralism designed to scare kids to be good or get lumps of coal.
• Elves, living snowmen, etc

The stuff considered pagan, but isn't:

• the date
• conifers, holly and ivy (churches were always decorated by foliage, and this is what you had in temperate climates in winter)
• the idea of a present deliver/presents - the jolly ol' St Nick and Krist Kinder traditions are firmly Christian, but the Father Christmas stuff is. Of course, they've all been merged in to one guy in America, had commercialism and not-very-veiled threats added and then exported around the world.

I've tried asking this many times...if stores didn't sell Christmas stuff until after Thanksgiving, then what would they stock the shelves with between Halloween and Thanksgiving?

We have had the following in the seasonal section:
June/July: whole aisle Summer stuff (barbeque, booze, paddling pools, deckchairs, etc).
August: half summer stuff, half 'back to school'.
Early September: Whole aisle 'back to school' (stationery, lunchboxes, school clothes, etc).
Late September: half 'back to school', half long term Christmas food stuff (sweets/chocolate)
October: half Halloween, half long-term Christmas stuff
November-December: almost certainly all Christmas stuff, with stuff like decorations as well as food items.

The cake aisle has had Christmas stuff (with stuff like Mince pies going out of date before December, but they sell as they are yummy) and Halloween/Bonfire stuff since late September, gradually getting more as time goes on. This week had a lot more Halloween stuff. There's been a lot of pumpkins to buy the last couple of weeks (in the fruit section, replacing the more summery fruit, which is relegated to a smaller section). There were toffee apples in the fruit section today (now Halloween-linked, but were Bonfire Night things even 10 years ago) - this was the first week but Bonfire night will keep them there and in a prominent position next week if there's still stock.

The supermarkets really want a steady stock flow, rather than a rush in December. Tescos have a £75-off-in-December voucher if you do four £130 weekly-shops in the 6 weeks leading to December (quite how you'll need the voucher, such is the hoarding that four £130 shops would cause - even a big family would need to pick up a sizeable amount of booze each week to do that). Waitrose have a more sensible £40 off-in-Dec with four £75 spends. As such, they will stock the longer-life Christmas stuff early.

[Molandfreak]

• Valentine's Day: An overrated, sappy holiday filled with arrogantly falsified infatuation and heightened expectations. Really, if you're so crazily in love, show it off just as much the other 364 days of the year.

[english si]

Valentine's Day

Cancel that one!

I'm not a fan of New Years - which seems to be 'have an excuse for a party', but it's only 6 days after Christmas Day, and by then I'm partied out.

[corco]

I'm not a fan of New Years - which seems to be 'have an excuse for a party', but it's only 6 days after Christmas Day, and by then I'm partied out.

Yeah, I wish there was a way to space out Thanksgiving/Christmas/New Years. Seems silly to have three major holidays over a month and a half and then not have another one until Memorial Day. Even minor holidays...most gov't employees go from President's Day to Memorial Day without a scheduled three day weekend since Good Friday seems to have been mostly phased out. It'd be nice to have another one somewhere in there.

[Big John]

I'm in favor of eliminating holidays from exopy-coated reinforcing steel: http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/esc/ctms/pdf/CT_685feb08.pdf

Holidays are defined as pinholes and
voids in non-conductive coatings that
allow current to pass through the
protective coating to the metal base
material. These discontinuities are such
that they may not be visible to a person
with normal or corrected vision