Daylight Saving Time

[kphoger]

The sun should be directly above at 12:00. Anything else is stupid. The sky is barely light five hours before noon these days, but ooh! look how much daylight we tacked onto the end of the day. Who stole the light that helps me get out of bed in the morning, that's what I want to know!

I just blew a guy's mind at church this morning. He mentioned being encouraged to do more during the day since the day is longer. I corrected him, that the day isn't actually longer. He corrected himself further: since there's an extra hour of sunlight. Again: it's the same amount of sunlight. And then he mentioned farmers, and I knew I had to just give up.

[bandit957]

It's the effect of time zones.  Most of the time zones are situated behind solar time by up to more than an hour.

If it's significantly more than an hour, a place should probably be moved to another time zone. Cincinnati is 98 minutes off for 9 months a year, and should be moved.

[Road Hog]

For a few weeks, I do like that U.S time is an hour closer to European time until Europe changes at the end of the month. Makes soccer watching a little easier on Saturday mornings.

[english si]

[formulanone]

I posted this one hour later to make up for the (in)difference.

[Pete from Boston]

The sun should be directly above at 12:00. Anything else is stupid. The sky is barely light five hours before noon these days, but ooh! look how much daylight we tacked onto the end of the day. Who stole the light that helps me get out of bed in the morning, that's what I want to know!

The morning thing is a particluarly bitter pill after just finally getting out of rising in darkness. 

As far as noon being when the sun is highest, we had that once.  But it was that or time zones, and fortunately we (or the railroads anyway) chose the latter.  Far easier to keep track of.

[1995hoo]

You know, we all went thru the time change just 3 months ago. Except for an extreme few people, everyone got over the time change by Monday. Heck, no one here has mentioned how long it took them to get over it in November, leading me to conclude that people just like to complain about the time change way longer than it actually affects them.

I don't doubt that part of it is that gaining an hour of sleep (in November) is less of an annoyance for most people than losing an hour.

I don't think it's nearly as big a deal as it's made out to be these days, but I'm definitely yawning more than usual this morning. No doubt part of that is that it's just harder to get up when it's dark outside. Not sleeping well because it was too warm isn't helping either, but that has nothing to do with DST.

[english si]

The morning thing is a particluarly bitter pill after just finally getting out of rising in darkness.

Yes - if you are going to do DST, don't begin it so early in the year that people's mornings become dark again!

[catch22]

^^ For Indiana, the NW part observed DST and the rest of the state didn't.

The Wikipedia article "Time in Indiana" is baffling in its length and complexity.  It's sort of the four-color map problem of timekeeping.  Metro areas at the corners of the state, plus Indy in the middle, makes picking a line complicated, and DST confuses the issue further. 

I used to work in IT as a network engineer for a big auto parts manufacturer that had several plants in small Indiana towns.  Whenever I had to schedule work with any of them, I would always call the contact person for that plant and ask them what time it was there at that moment relative to me in Michigan since the rules re DST and Indiana were so hosed.

[jeffandnicole]

The morning thing is a particluarly bitter pill after just finally getting out of rising in darkness.

Yes - if you are going to do DST, don't begin it so early in the year that people's mornings become dark again!

It wasn't that long ago when DST began the 1st week of April.  Before that, DST began later in April. People have expressed a desire to have that extra hour of daylight in the evening, not the morning, and are willing to put up with the short period of time in which it's dark out in the morning in order to have more daylight in the evening.

[roadman]

I know a lot of people don't like this, but I wouldn't mind if DST stuck around all year. Yeah, it would get light later in the morning, but the fact that the sun is still high in the sky makes me happy.

Better still, let's just eliminate DST entirely.  Next time there's supposed to be a clock adjustment, adjust it by half an hour and leave it there for good.

[1995hoo]

The morning thing is a particluarly bitter pill after just finally getting out of rising in darkness.

Yes - if you are going to do DST, don't begin it so early in the year that people's mornings become dark again!

It wasn't that long ago when DST began the 1st week of April.  Before that, DST began later in April. People have expressed a desire to have that extra hour of daylight in the evening, not the morning, and are willing to put up with the short period of time in which it's dark out in the morning in order to have more daylight in the evening.

End of April to end of October when I was a kid. It was extended to the first Sunday in April in the mid-1980s, then to the current dates in 2007.

I thought the last Sunday in April seemed a bit late for the time change, but the current system seems too early. I kind of like the idea of using the last Sunday in March simply because it makes it easier when dealing with Europe because that's when they change their clocks–it just simplifies things if we all do it at the same time because you always get people forgetting New York is only four hours behind London for the next few weeks and the like.

I suppose from a practical standpoint one advantage for a huge number of people to not changing on the first Sunday in April is that under the current system in the US and Canada, the time change never occurs on Easter Sunday (as it would have this year). Changing on the last Sunday in March would re-introduce that problem (which I suppose could occur on the last Sunday in April as well–under the ecclesiastical calendar used by western denominations, Easter can occur from March 22 to April 25 inclusive; under the calendar used by eastern denominations, it can currently occur from April 4 to May 8).

[jeffandnicole]

I always thought having it the last Sunday in October was a pain because it would conflict with Halloween some years.

[1995hoo]

I always thought having it the last Sunday in October was a pain because it would conflict with Halloween some years.

The candy lobbyists were one of the groups who pushed hard to extend it a week in the fall.

One reason the NFL has scheduled a game in London on the last Sunday in October every year since 2007 (including this coming season) is that the clocks there go back that weekend but ours go back the following weekend, so the time difference is less and they can have the game kick off an hour earlier London time.

[kphoger]

The sun should be directly above at 12:00. Anything else is stupid. The sky is barely light five hours before noon these days, but ooh! look how much daylight we tacked onto the end of the day. Who stole the light that helps me get out of bed in the morning, that's what I want to know!

The morning thing is a particluarly bitter pill after just finally getting out of rising in darkness. 

As far as noon being when the sun is highest, we had that once.  But it was that or time zones, and fortunately we (or the railroads anyway) chose the latter.  Far easier to keep track of.

I'm OK with time zones and individual locations being slightly off from having a high noon. But my point is that DST shifts us even further away from that norm than our already-off-center timezone boundaries have us.

And yes, I was just starting to be happy again in the mornings because it was fairly light already before work. I always dread the removal of that hour of light skies on the morning. This year was even worse, because our baby wakes up twice a night, and I need all the help I can get to put feet on floor when the alarm goes off.

[J N Winkler]

The sun should be directly above at 12:00. Anything else is stupid. The sky is barely light five hours before noon these days, but ooh! look how much daylight we tacked onto the end of the day. Who stole the light that helps me get out of bed in the morning, that's what I want to know!

The morning thing is a particularly bitter pill after just finally getting out of rising in darkness. 

As far as noon being when the sun is highest, we had that once.  But it was that or time zones, and fortunately we (or the railroads anyway) chose the latter.  Far easier to keep track of.

My personal preference is for dark mornings, so I am happy to have DST move the schedule more to my liking.  In fact, I would not mind "year-round" DST or, to be more precise, having my area moved one time zone east.  There is always someone whose ox is gored by a time zone assignment.

I am finding this time change far less disruptive than having to half-redo a transmission fluid change since I attempted to use a hex key rather than a hex socket and torque wrench on the drain bolt, which meant that I was not able to tighten it enough (not enough lever arm from a key) and now have a leak.

[roadman65]

I prefer the DST year round as you have that extra hour of light.  I actually like going to work in the dark and coming home having extra hours of light to actually enjoy your day still.

In fact Nixon tried it in his one of his terms, but parents of school children balked at the idea and soon it went back.  The reasoning was parents thought safety of children was compromised do to them waiting for the bus in the early morning dark period or worse yet which was walking to school in the dark.

Yet here in Orlando the school buses are out picking up children at as early as 6 AM and the range goes from 7 to 4 as far as the in class time.  I am guessing that is so roads do not get extra congested with school bus traffic and parents on the road if they had all schools go in at the same time and all let out at the same time. 

[roadman]

The candy lobbyists were one of the groups who pushed hard to extend it a week in the fall.

Reflecting on my experiences as a kid (late 1960s to early 1970s), I always thought it was really neat that DST ended the week before Halloween.  The fact my buddies and I used to go out trick-or-treating after it turned dark outside added to the fun and spookieness of the holiday.

[catch22]

In fact Nixon tried it in his one of his terms, but parents of school children balked at the idea and soon it went back.  The reasoning was parents thought safety of children was compromised do to them waiting for the bus in the early morning dark period or worse yet which was walking to school in the dark.

I was working as a telephone installer that year and I balked at it too, since it meant my first job or two resulted in climbing telephone poles in the dark.  Not fun.

[cpzilliacus]

^^ For Indiana, the NW part observed DST and the rest of the state didn't.

The Wikipedia article "Time in Indiana" is baffling in its length and complexity.  It's sort of the four-color map problem of timekeeping.  Metro areas at the corners of the state, plus Indy in the middle, makes picking a line complicated, and DST confuses the issue further. 

I used to work in IT as a network engineer for a big auto parts manufacturer that had several plants in small Indiana towns.  Whenever I had to schedule work with any of them, I would always call the contact person for that plant and ask them what time it was there at that moment relative to me in Michigan since the rules re DST and Indiana were so hosed.

Living my entire life relatively close to the Atlantic coast, I have always been on Eastern Time. I would be happy to do away with DST.

Always found it curious that relatively small parts of some states are on a different time zone from the major population centers.  One example I was not aware of is western Kansas, which is on Mountain time, not Central time (the time zone boundary is signed on I-70, which is how I learned that).  Similarly, the western part of the Florida panhandle is on Central time. 

Is this a good idea, or should states (with possible exception for very large states like Alaska and Texas) be on one time zone?

[1995hoo]

Florida being split was one of the issues in the 2000 election–some networks "called" Florida while polls in the Panhandle were still open. 

[english si]

I prefer the DST year round as you have that extra hour of light.

:facepalm:

Sure, if you are moving it from, say, 0500-0600 (or earlier, especially in the States where everything happens earlier) to 1800-1900 (or later), then you have an extra hour of usable light. However DST doesn't make the days longer.

In London in winter you are taking light from 0800-0900 if you moved the UK to CET (and either had or didn't have summer time on top of that), and putting it between 1600-1700. You've reduced light outside working hours to zero, and just moved light outside school hours from an hour each side to two hours after - commuting hours will all be in the dark, save school kids coming home, which they had anyway.

In fact Nixon tried it in his one of his terms, but parents of school children balked at the idea and soon it went back.

In the UK, it was decreased economy, increased road deaths and suicides, and nonsense like 10am dawns just to get 3pm sunsets in Scottish mid-winter that killed it (interestingly large numbers of MPs from the South East opposed the continuation of the experiment, despite being those who would gain the most and suffer the least. Ditto the recent bill that proposed moving from London time to Berlin time)

DST is a good idea in Summer, but in winter (especially at northern latitudes) it is literally lethal and ought to stand for Deaths and Suicides Time.

It wasn't that long ago when DST began the 1st week of April.  Before that, DST began later in April. People have expressed a desire to have that extra hour of daylight in the evening, not the morning, and are willing to put up with the short period of time in which it's dark out in the morning in order to have more daylight in the evening.

'People' - a vague thing, mostly consisting of the leisure/candy industry that works later in the day anyway. Plus people in power (eg Congressmen) who tend to be 'earlys' on the body clock as stupid school hours and societial biases make 'lates' seem stupid and lazy and get don't get given power are the ones calling the shots - they, of course, prefer society to be more biased in favour of them.

And who cares about those killed in car crashes, or who commit suicide due to the darker mornings returning this week as there wasn't enough light in the morning to move - they aren't 'people' no more.

Always found it curious that relatively small parts of some states are on a different time zone from the major population centers.  One example I was not aware of is western Kansas, which is on Mountain time, not Central time (the time zone boundary is signed on I-70, which is how I learned that).  Similarly, the western part of the Florida panhandle is on Central time. 

Is this a good idea, or should states (with possible exception for very large states like Alaska and Texas) be on one time zone?

I presume that, like Indiana and it's former Louisville and Chicago area time zones it's due to being closer to somewhere out of state, rather than in-state.

[oscar]

Is this a good idea, or should states (with possible exception for very large states like Alaska and Texas) be on one time zone?

Even huge Alaska is mostly in one time zone, except for far western Alaska in the Aleutian time zone, which has almost no population (Dutch Harbor and Nome are on Alaska time).  Alaska used to have four time zones (one covering only a few hundred people in the Yakutat part of the southeastern panhandle), so the current situation is a big improvement.

The bigger question is, why shouldn't states split between time zones consider realignments of their state lines, such as for example adding Pensacola and other Central Time parts of Florida to Alabama? 

[NWI_Irish96]

I know a lot of people don't like this, but I wouldn't mind if DST stuck around all year. Yeah, it would get light later in the morning, but the fact that the sun is still high in the sky makes me happy.

Getting light later in the morning is great, if you don't care at all about millions of kids at higher risk for accidents and attacks while waiting for school buses in the dark.  But that's insignificant compared to adults wanting more daylight in the evening.

[jeffandnicole]

Living my entire life relatively close to the Atlantic coast, I have always been on Eastern Time. I would be happy to do away with DST.

Always found it curious that relatively small parts of some states are on a different time zone from the major population centers.  One example I was not aware of is western Kansas, which is on Mountain time, not Central time (the time zone boundary is signed on I-70, which is how I learned that).  Similarly, the western part of the Florida panhandle is on Central time. 

Is this a good idea, or should states (with possible exception for very large states like Alaska and Texas) be on one time zone?

I don't think size should matter.  (Wait, I mean...)

The problem with a state sticking with one time zone presents the issues that was mentioned about Ohio, with Cincinnati being so far behind in terms of daylight in the evening, darkness in the morning, and the midday sun occurring 90-some minutes past "midday". 

I prefer the DST year round as you have that extra hour of light.

:facepalm:

I think we know what he means.  He's smart enough to understand daylight doesn't magically increase by an hour.

I know a lot of people don't like this, but I wouldn't mind if DST stuck around all year. Yeah, it would get light later in the morning, but the fact that the sun is still high in the sky makes me happy.

Getting light later in the morning is great, if you don't care at all about millions of kids at higher risk for accidents and attacks while waiting for school buses in the dark.  But that's insignificant compared to adults wanting more daylight in the evening.

Site stats proving that.

For the most part, the majority of attempted luring incidents occur in the afternoon as kids come home from school, which are almost always in daylight, year around.