any smoking roadgeeks?

[plain]

Ahhh I see.

[hbelkins]

I never thought smoking was cool (or kewl, if you prefer, or even Kool). It's not attractive, it's not sexy, it's not macho.

I also don't understand why anyone would start vaping if they don't smoke beforehand and are either trying to quit or are trying to get their nicotine fix in places that don't allow smoking but don't prohibit vaping.

[jeffandnicole]

Not to mention kissing a chick who just smoked is like kissing an ashtray.  And my wife will agree.

Oh, wait, I ventured too far into that story!! haha

[Max Rockatansky]

Kewl?

[Takumi]

No no no, it's Kool. Like the brand name.

[inkyatari]

I've smoked a total of 7 cigarettes in my life. Never saw what the big deal was.

Now, I get very VERY pissed when someone carelessly throws their butts out their car window. The other night two pieces of smoker's burning trash hit my car.  I understand that auto manufacturers areshying away from putting ashtrays in their vehicles, but I'd argue this is making the flaming butt trash (Hmm.  potential band name) problem WORSE instead of its intended effect of helping people quit smoking.

[hbelkins]

I've smoked a total of 7 cigarettes in my life. Never saw what thebig deal wa.

Now, I get very VERY pised when someone carelessly throws their butts out their car window. The other night two pieces of smoker's burning trash hit my car.  I understand that auto manufacturers areshying away from putting ashtrays in their vehicles, but I'd argue this is making the flaming butt trash (Hmm.  potential band name) problem WORSE instead of its intended effect of helping people quit smoking.

Try driving some vehicle with a roof opening when a smoker in front of you throws his or her butt out the window.

Had more than a few incidents when I drove a Camaro Z-28 with the T-tops removed years ago, when I was afraid a smoker's discarded butt was going to end up in my vehicle when they threw it out.

Speculation has it that a discarded cigarette butt caused the fire that devastated the Smoky Mountains.

[empirestate]

To put another angle on it, what's interesting to me about smoking is that the habit seems to have been curtailed dramatically in our population merely by changing the culture surrounding it. Typically, you'd think that if something was all that harmful they would outlaw it completely, but that was clearly seen as impossible. Instead, a different approach was used that involved creating such a stigma around smoking that people would be disinclined to do it at all, because it was perceived as aberrant behavior. Some people still do it, and even enjoy and defend it, but they're increasingly marginalized with the elimination of smoking areas in most public places.

The reason I point this out is: what other aspects of our society have been successfully reduced, eliminated, or substantially altered, just by changing their cultural acceptability? And what changes are currently on our wish list, that might be better addressed through a societal shift than by legislation or enforcement?

[hbelkins]

The reason I point this out is: what other aspects of our society have been successfully reduced, eliminated, or substantially altered, just by changing their cultural acceptability? And what changes are currently on our wish list, that might be better addressed through a societal shift than by legislation or enforcement?

Marijuana. I don't see the allure of the stoner culture.

[bandit957]

The reason I point this out is: what other aspects of our society have been successfully reduced, eliminated, or substantially altered, just by changing their cultural acceptability? And what changes are currently on our wish list, that might be better addressed through a societal shift than by legislation or enforcement?

I am disappointed at the growing lack of acceptance of crooked teeth. Thirty years ago, people were much more likely to accept it. The real problems began in the mid-'90s, and I think it's because of the openly classist culture of the time. Hardly anyone ever said anything negative to me about it until I was 24. That was when the Internet was becoming popular and I posted a drawing of myself on my website, which the Usenet Cabal promptly defaced it by drawing crooked buck teeth on it. And then YouTube came along, and that's when the floodgates really opened.

I just don't see what the problem is with crooked teeth, since it doesn't seem to cause any medical problems. It's not a problem for me. At all. I don't even try to hide it in my photos.

I'm not the only person who thinks this. I have a friend who has missed out on job offers because of crooked teeth. But I think they look cool. Society has the problem, not her or me.

So, because of all this, I've made it a crusade to make crooked teeth acceptable again. That's why I posted that video on YouTube. Objectively speaking, you have to admit crooked teeth look pretty cool. Don't you agree that they look a lot more interesting than perfectly straight teeth? Hence, I call them punk rocker teeth.

[jakeroot]

To be frank, I've always associated crooked and/or buck teeth with low-class, blue-collar citizens who cannot afford dental insurance. If you can have straight teeth, why not? I had braces for four years specifically to avoid cooked teeth, and its long-term, mostly negative cultural perceptions.

Unlike smoking, I can't think of any upsides to crooked teeth. Smoking is a social activity that relieves anxiety. Crooked teeth... I can't think of any benefits.

[J N Winkler]

In regard to changing societal norms by redefining the cultural acceptability of particular behaviors, this article has some insights to offer, including the importance of avoiding antipersuasion:

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2016/12/does_fighting_racism_make_racists_more_racist.html

I would personally like to see societal acceptance of low-fiber diets vanish.  It is estimated that no more than between 2% and 10% of the US population eats the fiber RDA (28 g/day for a 2000-calorie diet) on an ongoing basis.  Most of the rest of the population gets just about 50% of the RDA, dropping to about 20% for millennials.  There are some restricted groups in society with a genuine medical need for low-fiber diets (e.g. IBS sufferers), but the generally low level of fiber in the typical US diet contributes to the increasing prevalence of obesity.  We are becoming Metformin Nation and this has to stop.

After five decades of feminism, we still give men a free pass for not knowing how to cook.  This has to come to an end.  I learned how to cook when I was growing up, and when my parents married, it was actually my father who had more cooking experience.

[bandit957]

To be frank, I've always associated crooked and/or buck teeth with low-class, blue-collar citizens who cannot afford dental insurance. If you can have straight teeth, why not?

I'm not exactly made of money, but that's not the only reason. I just don't see the need.

Even if my dentist could just wave his arm and provide straight teeth for free, I wouldn't do it. It just wouldn't look right. I was about 8 the first time I noticed I had crooked teeth, so to me it's normal.

If people think of me as being of a lower economic status, then well, they're right.

Unlike smoking, I can't think of any upsides to crooked teeth. Smoking is a social activity that relieves anxiety. Crooked teeth... I can't think of any benefits.

Looking cool is a benefit of crooked teeth.

I used to have a tooth just to the right of my two front teeth that was lodged in my gums, and it looked really cool. Somehow it moved closer to its "proper" position, but I have no idea how. It still sticks out and is twisted at a 45-degree angle, which looks cool, but it used to look even cooler.

[J N Winkler]

To be frank, I've always associated crooked and/or buck teeth with low-class, blue-collar citizens who cannot afford dental insurance. If you can have straight teeth, why not? I had braces for four years specifically to avoid cooked teeth, and its long-term, mostly negative cultural perceptions.

There are also definite health benefits to having straight teeth, including reduced incidence of gum disease and tooth loss.

http://saddlecreekortho.com/ourblog/posts/not-just-a-pretty-smile-health-benefits-of-orthodontic-treatment

Unlike smoking, I can't think of any upsides to crooked teeth. Smoking is a social activity that relieves anxiety. Crooked teeth... I can't think of any benefits.

I would not consider those aspects of smoking to be benefits that would justify even a low-footprint "social smoking" habit (e.g. smoking only at parties).  It is possible to be social without smoking, and nicotine is just as likely to promote anxiety as to relieve it.

Cigarettes in particular have been engineered to promote addiction.  This aspect, and not the mere fact of knowingly selling a product that can cause cancer, is the main reason the tobacco companies were eventually forced to settle the product-liability litigation against them.  Therefore, any expectations of being able to confine smoking completely to social contexts have to be regarded as illusory.  My mother came from a nonsmoking family but spent a number of years working at a newspaper at a time when smoking and drinking were expected parts of being a journalist.  She never actually said when or where she picked up her cigarette habit, and she was an almost complete teetotaller (only a glass of wine at special dinners, no hard liquor, and beer to her was perfectly good ditchwater allowed to spoil), but after years of limiting herself to half a pack a day, she never actually quit for good until I was almost in college.

[empirestate]

The reason I point this out is: what other aspects of our society have been successfully reduced, eliminated, or substantially altered, just by changing their cultural acceptability? And what changes are currently on our wish list, that might be better addressed through a societal shift than by legislation or enforcement?

Marijuana. I don't see the allure of the stoner culture.

On your wish list, you mean? Because it's pretty evident that the societal shift there is going in the other direction.

And if so, is there any reason beyond you just not seeing its appeal? I mean, there are many things of which I don't see the appeal, but I wouldn't consider wanting a cultural revolution to eradicate them!

[bandit957]

There are also definite health benefits to having straight teeth, including reduced incidence of gum disease and tooth loss.

I've always been very skeptical of that. And the source of that website is an orthodontist, so they want people to use their services.

Pretty much everyone has gum disease and TMJ disorder, and I've never really had any problems that were more severe than most people. It's been 34 years since a dentist has even recommended doing anything about my crooked teeth. I also read in a book when I was about 11 that straight teeth last longer, but it just didn't worry me.

I will admit to one minor problem: Because of slightly buck teeth, I was always afraid of being hit in the teeth when kids at school threw things (which they did all the time). But that was their problem, not mine.

[vdeane]

As for teeth, I think that one coincided with the rise of braces.  Back in the 60s, it wasn't common for people to have them, but now it's rare for someone to NOT have them at some point when they're a teenager.  That could be mixing cause and effect though.  There's also an obsession with white teeth.

In my case, I had to wear braces for a LONG time, and I feel like my teeth have moved slightly since I had them (I wore my retainer every night afterwards for several years, but that wasn't enough, and I stopped after it became uncomfortable).  My jaw is smaller than it should be (my baby teeth alone were able to fill it before I got braces), so that's part of why it took so long.  There were a lot of teeth to move since they were all crammed in there (I even had a couple teeth in front of the teeth they were supposed to be next to, and those teeth were next to each other!) and I had an overbite (still have one, just a lot smaller).

[bandit957]

Back in the 60s, it wasn't common for people to have them, but now it's rare for someone to NOT have them at some point when they're a teenager.

That is weird. I grew up in the '80s, and I would have just absolutely kicked and screamed to avoid getting them. I refuse to get them. If I go through my entire life without getting them, I will consider my life a complete success at fighting against the medical establishment.

Once when I was about 12, I told my parents I wouldn't get them until the dog got them.

Kids today need to do more kicking and screaming.

[jeffandnicole]

As for teeth, I think that one coincided with the rise of braces.  Back in the 60s, it wasn't common for people to have them, but now it's rare for someone to NOT have them at some point when they're a teenager.  That could be mixing cause and effect though.  There's also an obsession with white teeth.

In my case, I had to wear braces for a LONG time, and I feel like my teeth have moved slightly since I had them (I wore my retainer every night afterwards for several years, but that wasn't enough, and I stopped after it became uncomfortable).  My jaw is smaller than it should be (my baby teeth alone were able to fill it before I got braces), so that's part of why it took so long.  There were a lot of teeth to move since they were all crammed in there (I even had a couple teeth in front of the teeth they were supposed to be next to, and those teeth were next to each other!) and I had an overbite (still have one, just a lot smaller).

Same here...really bad overbite.  Pretty much scarred me for life growing up.  I half-laugh at the people I went to school with who I'm friends with on Facebook, and reading about their kids and bullying issues that's been occurring for a few months..  I'm thinking...yeah, that was THEM back in school, and I dealt with it for years! I don't have much sympathy.  I probably should have a little, but dealing with the bs I dealt with growing up, yeah, I don't.

I actually had a retainer before I had braces because of my issue.  Along with my wisdom teeth getting pulled, I had 4 other teeth pulled as well just to make room in my mouth for my other teeth.  Then had braces for 4 years.  I had a retainer after that, but never wore it as much.  My teeth aren't perfect, mostly due to 2 bottom teeth that are slightly crooked, but otherwise are a billion times better than they were growing up.

Also, I don't think dental insurances covered braces back in the 80's and before.  Whatever is covered now is much greater than it was back then.

[bandit957]

Also, I don't think dental insurances covered braces back in the 80's and before.  Whatever is covered now is much greater than it was back then.

I bet my parents' insurance in the '80s would have covered it, because I didn't want it, and didn't desperately need it either. It covered stuff I had no use for, but it didn't even cover basic medical needs like why I kept catching the flu 10 times a year. I know it covered quack psychiatrists, but it didn't cover anything necessary. I just got a letter today saying that my PTSD counseling sessions aren't covered, yet our insurance in the '80s or '90s had no trouble at all paying for several visits to a quack shrink when I was 16.

And I really, really, really have no need for insurance that covers braces. If they offered it to me, I'd just sort of laugh, and I'd decline.

My chompers shall remain in their natural position for as long as they dare.

[GeauxLSU]

The reason I point this out is: what other aspects of our society have been successfully reduced, eliminated, or substantially altered, just by changing their cultural acceptability? And what changes are currently on our wish list, that might be better addressed through a societal shift than by legislation or enforcement?

Marijuana. I don't see the allure of the stoner culture.

I don't see the appeal of the food addiction culture.

[Max Rockatansky]

The reason I point this out is: what other aspects of our society have been successfully reduced, eliminated, or substantially altered, just by changing their cultural acceptability? And what changes are currently on our wish list, that might be better addressed through a societal shift than by legislation or enforcement?

Marijuana. I don't see the allure of the stoner culture.

I don't see the appeal of the food addiction culture.

Can we officially call this a troll before things get way out of hand? 

[signalman]

Can we officially call this a troll before things get way out of hand? 

I think we should.  I (and I think most of us) smell bullshit.  Gotta take out the garbage before it begins to stink.

[Takumi]

The reason I point this out is: what other aspects of our society have been successfully reduced, eliminated, or substantially altered, just by changing their cultural acceptability? And what changes are currently on our wish list, that might be better addressed through a societal shift than by legislation or enforcement?

Marijuana. I don't see the allure of the stoner culture.

I don't see the appeal of the food addiction culture.

Can we officially call this a troll before things get way out of hand? 

Smells like a blawp.

[empirestate]

The reason I point this out is: what other aspects of our society have been successfully reduced, eliminated, or substantially altered, just by changing their cultural acceptability? And what changes are currently on our wish list, that might be better addressed through a societal shift than by legislation or enforcement?

Marijuana. I don't see the allure of the stoner culture.

I don't see the appeal of the food addiction culture.

Can we officially call this a troll before things get way out of hand? 

We cannot. As the person who wrote it, and thus the official who would make it official, I can assure you it's meant genuinely. So you can call it a troll, but you cannot do so officially.