How has the Pandemic Affected Your Preception?

[hotdogPi]

The winner-take-all effect of the Electoral College is greater than the small state importance boost effect.

[Rothman]

So...bring back the VP being the second-place finisher?

[vdeane]

The winner-take-all effect of the Electoral College is greater than the small state importance boost effect.

Exactly.  I thought it was hilarious when someone claimed the Electoral College makes rural areas matter, and then proceeded to list a bunch of safe states (like Wyoming and the Dakotas) that don't matter at all in Presidential elections.  Meanwhile, the swingiest swing state (and therefore the most important in the whole election) is the third largest (fourth in the Electoral College until redistricting happens after the 2020 Census).

[kphoger]

So...bring back the VP being the second-place finisher?

I'm trying to decide if that would be awesome or awful.

[NWI_Irish96]

The winner-take-all effect of the Electoral College is greater than the small state importance boost effect.

Exactly.  I thought it was hilarious when someone claimed the Electoral College makes rural areas matter, and then proceeded to list a bunch of safe states (like Wyoming and the Dakotas) that don't matter at all in Presidential elections.  Meanwhile, the swingiest swing state (and therefore the most important in the whole election) is the third largest (fourth in the Electoral College until redistricting happens after the 2020 Census).

Rural states matter more collectively in the EC, if not individually.

[hbelkins]

So basically the pandemic hasn't affected a lot of people in regard to their interest in politics?

If anything, it's hardened and reinforced my interest and my beliefs. And it's not a partisan thing, either. I was being critical of Mike DeWine (Ohio's Republican governor) before I was being critical of Andy Beshear (Kentucky's Democrat governor), because DeWine typically issued his dictatorial edicts a day or two before Beshear would issue the same edicts. I've long said that I'm not partisan; I'm ideological. I expect more from members of my own party than I do members of the other party. Years ago, I did one of those Facebook "your most-used word" things and RINO came up as one of the leaders.

I guess that sometimes I wonder what people really get out of debating anything political?  It seems like politics is so important to so many and yet I'm vexed as to why.

I can only speak for myself, but in my case, my ideological beliefs are a huge portion of who I am as a person. My ideological principles are pretty much inseparable from my religious beliefs; indeed, my ideology is a result of my Christianity. I've never been good at spreading the Gospel by word or by direct action. I have to let my conduct and my comments on other things speak for me. I realize that most people already have their minds made up, and there aren't any real undecideds out there, but given my training as a journalist to pursue facts, it's hard for me to let untruths go unanswered. That's why the vast majority of my comments on social media are on current events, and not what I'm eating for lunch (or lying about how great my life is in a Styxian "Grand Illusion" attempt to impress others.)

[Rothman]

I think there are real undecideds out there, given fluctuations in polls.  I imagine a few million idiots swaying with every headline: "Oh, that sounds good...But, hey, that sounds good, too!...Oh, look!  Shiny!"

[kphoger]

I think there are real undecideds out there, given fluctuations in polls.  I imagine a few million idiots swaying with every headline: "Oh, that sounds good...But, hey, that sounds good, too!...Oh, look!  Shiny!"

I have to imagine that a lot of non-voters are undecided.  Perhaps they don't vote because they're on the fence or don't care who wins.

[hotdogPi]

I think there are real undecideds out there, given fluctuations in polls.  I imagine a few million idiots swaying with every headline: "Oh, that sounds good...But, hey, that sounds good, too!...Oh, look!  Shiny!"

I have to imagine that a lot of non-voters are undecided.  Perhaps they don't vote because they're on the fence or don't care who wins.

Some just don't bother, especially when it's an hour line or more for something that probably won't make a difference, or even if there's no line, they still have to drive to the polling place (pre-2020) for something that probably won't matter. (Of course, a single vote can matter – see the 2017 state-level elections in Virginia.)

[kphoger]

So basically the pandemic hasn't affected a lot of people in regard to their interest in politics?

If anything, it's hardened and reinforced my interest and my beliefs. And it's not a partisan thing, either. I was being critical of Mike DeWine (Ohio's Republican governor) before I was being critical of Andy Beshear (Kentucky's Democrat governor), because DeWine typically issued his dictatorial edicts a day or two before Beshear would issue the same edicts. I've long said that I'm not partisan; I'm ideological. I expect more from members of my own party than I do members of the other party. Years ago, I did one of those Facebook "your most-used word" things and RINO came up as one of the leaders.

I guess that sometimes I wonder what people really get out of debating anything political?  It seems like politics is so important to so many and yet I'm vexed as to why.

I can only speak for myself, but in my case, my ideological beliefs are a huge portion of who I am as a person. My ideological principles are pretty much inseparable from my religious beliefs; indeed, my ideology is a result of my Christianity. I've never been good at spreading the Gospel by word or by direct action. I have to let my conduct and my comments on other things speak for me. I realize that most people already have their minds made up, and there aren't any real undecideds out there, but given my training as a journalist to pursue facts, it's hard for me to let untruths go unanswered. That's why the vast majority of my comments on social media are on current events, and not what I'm eating for lunch (or lying about how great my life is in a Styxian "Grand Illusion" attempt to impress others.)

See, for me it's been the opposite.

Already before the virus, I had begun to try and divorce my political opinions from my religious convictions.  I had become more and more uncomfortable with the notion that Christians in other places and other times, by virtue of their politics, are/were somehow less Christian than I.  Similarly, it didn't sit well with me to consider contemporary American brothers and sisters to be somehow lacking in their religious convictions by virtue of their politics.

Part of the process for me has been to try and understand why people on the other side of the proverbial aisle think the way they do.  I may be pro-life, but I've come to understand that other Christians are pro-choice not because they hate babies but because they love mothers.  I may lean libertarian, but I've come to understand that other Christians want big government not because they disregard liberty but because they value social change.  Et cetera.

With the coming of the virus, there have been opportunities for our differences to become visible, to be more out in the open–even among people who rarely discuss politics.  Some people stay shuttered in their homes, while others travel on vacations seemingly more than ever.  Some people never leave the house without a mask, while others disregard ordinances and policies requiring them.  Some people are eager to get back to a normal routine, while others hesitate.  This has caused me to appreciate that everyone I know has unique values, circumstances, beliefs, family concerns, and personalities–all of which bear on their behavior and political opinions.  One thing that has encouraged me greatly in my home congregation is how gracious and accommodating everyone has been with each other's takes on the situation.  To use masks as the most visible example:  at church, I personally know people who never wear a mask even in the hallway, people who never take it off for four hours once they come in the front door even if there's nobody else around, and people who are still staying home.  And yet I've never witnessed an argument or even a dirty look.

I hope I've been able to extend that same grace and understanding to the conversations we've had on this forum lately.  Obviously I'm not a perfect person and I tend to ruffle feathers sometimes, but I hope it comes across none the less.  And, by and large, I think most other people on the forum have been likewise understanding of other's opinions and beliefs.  There have a been a few arguments here and there, but far fewer than one might expect.  (Admittedly, a noticeable lack of comments by NE2 calling people xenophobic tushy jesters has helped.)  This has made our conversations less upsetting and therefore more productive.

[ethanhopkin14]

So basically the pandemic hasn't affected a lot of people in regard to their interest in politics?

If anything, it's hardened and reinforced my interest and my beliefs. And it's not a partisan thing, either. I was being critical of Mike DeWine (Ohio's Republican governor) before I was being critical of Andy Beshear (Kentucky's Democrat governor), because DeWine typically issued his dictatorial edicts a day or two before Beshear would issue the same edicts. I've long said that I'm not partisan; I'm ideological. I expect more from members of my own party than I do members of the other party. Years ago, I did one of those Facebook "your most-used word" things and RINO came up as one of the leaders.

I guess that sometimes I wonder what people really get out of debating anything political?  It seems like politics is so important to so many and yet I'm vexed as to why.

I can only speak for myself, but in my case, my ideological beliefs are a huge portion of who I am as a person. My ideological principles are pretty much inseparable from my religious beliefs; indeed, my ideology is a result of my Christianity. I've never been good at spreading the Gospel by word or by direct action. I have to let my conduct and my comments on other things speak for me. I realize that most people already have their minds made up, and there aren't any real undecideds out there, but given my training as a journalist to pursue facts, it's hard for me to let untruths go unanswered. That's why the vast majority of my comments on social media are on current events, and not what I'm eating for lunch (or lying about how great my life is in a Styxian "Grand Illusion" attempt to impress others.)

See, for me it's been the opposite.

Already before the virus, I had begun to try and divorce my political opinions from my religious convictions.  I had become more and more uncomfortable with the notion that Christians in other places and other times, by virtue of their politics, are/were somehow less Christian than I.  Similarly, it didn't sit well with me to consider contemporary American brothers and sisters to be somehow lacking in their religious convictions by virtue of their politics.

Part of the process for me has been to try and understand why people on the other side of the proverbial aisle think the way they do.  I may be pro-life, but I've come to understand that other Christians are pro-choice not because they hate babies but because they love mothers.  I may lean libertarian, but I've come to understand that other Christians want big government not because they disregard liberty but because they value social change.  Et cetera.

With the coming of the virus, there have been opportunities for our differences to become visible, to be more out in the open–even among people who rarely discuss politics.  Some people stay shuttered in their homes, while others travel on vacations seemingly more than ever.  Some people never leave the house without a mask, while others disregard ordinances and policies requiring them.  Some people are eager to get back to a normal routine, while others hesitate.  This has caused me to appreciate that everyone I know has unique values, circumstances, beliefs, family concerns, and personalities–all of which bear on their behavior and political opinions.  One thing that has encouraged me greatly in my home congregation is how gracious and accommodating everyone has been with each other's takes on the situation.  To use masks as the most visible example:  at church, I personally know people who never wear a mask even in the hallway, people who never take it off for four hours once they come in the front door even if there's nobody else around, and people who are still staying home.  And yet I've never witnessed an argument or even a dirty look.

I hope I've been able to extend that same grace and understanding to the conversations we've had on this forum lately.  Obviously I'm not a perfect person and I tend to ruffle feathers sometimes, but I hope it comes across none the less.  And, by and large, I think most other people on the forum have been likewise understanding of other's opinions and beliefs.  There have a been a few arguments here and there, but far fewer than one might expect.  (Admittedly, a noticeable lack of comments by NE2 calling people xenophobic tushy jesters has helped.)  This has made our conversations less upsetting and therefore more productive.

Differences in opinions on masks, and distancing, 100% agree.  What I can't understand is how people have made the virus political.  The virus wears neither a red tie, a blue tie nor a purple tie.  I am not trying to make a political statement myself as I really don't care for it, but this was our time to really come together and accept everyone.  I feel we failed, and it just shows humans enjoy fighting with other humans and killing other humans.  It's really sad to me. 

If anything positive comes from this mess, I really hope we learn how we really need to put aside our differences and either accept both sides to every story or just say it doesn't really matter that these people think differently than I do.  I hope this is a lesson on what could have been if we just all got on the same page.   I have witnessed what you have spoke of too, people are working together, but in small doses.  It does tell me there is hope for us, but maybe not right now. 

[kphoger]

What I can't understand is how people have made the virus political. 

I can understand it to some degree, because mandates are the product of government mandating behavior.  That's inherently political.  That discussion has been hashed out on these boards before, and the thread ultimately got locked.  So let's not go there.

But what never ceases to amaze me is how we're all supposed to be utterly shocked whenever some politician or another doesn't wear a mask.  If Trump doesn't wear one, then we're all supposed to hate him for being a science denier.  If Pelosi doesn't wear a mask, then we're all supposed to hate her for being a privileged hypocrite.  Geez, who really cares?   

[hotdogPi]

But what never ceases to amaze me is how we're all supposed to be utterly shocked whenever some politician or another doesn't wear a mask.  If Trump doesn't wear one, then we're all supposed to hate him for being a science denier.  If Pelosi doesn't wear a mask, then we're all supposed to hate her for being a privileged hypocrite.  Geez, who really cares?   

Out of hundreds of current politicians (435 in the House minus vacancies, 100 in the Senate, 50 governors, Trump and his cabinet, and the nine Supreme Court Justices), the two names you mentioned are in the top 5 of most important in-the-news politicians (the other three being Joe Biden, Barack Obama, and Mitch McConnell, although Republicans like to mention Hillary Clinton a lot).

If this happened to Chris Pappas (NH-01, the closest competitive district to me), it probably wouldn't make the news at all, and even the people in his district would have no idea it happened.

[NWI_Irish96]

What I can't understand is how people have made the virus political. 

I can understand it to some degree, because mandates are the product of government mandating behavior.  That's inherently political.  That discussion has been hashed out on these boards before, and the thread ultimately got locked.  So let's not go there.

But what never ceases to amaze me is how we're all supposed to be utterly shocked whenever some politician or another doesn't wear a mask.  If Trump doesn't wear one, then we're all supposed to hate him for being a science denier.  If Pelosi doesn't wear a mask, then we're all supposed to hate her for being a privileged hypocrite.  Geez, who really cares?   

An incumbent President has a better chance of being re-elected when the economy is strong in general, and when the stock market is up specifically, so any issue that impacts the market significantly becomes a political issue. Shutting down businesses sent the stock market tumbling, and regardless of what the medical facts were, the incumbent party was against that response because it was, or at least was perceived as, damaging to re-election chances.

[Rothman]

Heh.  Masks are required in our congregation.  No mask means you get the boot.

And the vast majority of the congregation is more than conservative.

[SSOWorld]

Political hijacking - let's calm it down everyone, then we'll open back up to the appropriate topic.