NC: The proposed I-685

[Dirt Roads]

WMPO does not include Newton Grove. WMPO includes Wilmington and surrounding areas. Newton Grove is a part of Mid-Carolina RPO, that's separate agency.

From the viewpoint of folks in Wilmington, I-685 looks like it was intentionally stopped short of I-40 (therefore, not helping anyone in Wilmington).  If they can get it extended to I-40 anywhere (Newton Grove is the most logical cutoff, and fairly close to the shortest cutoff as well) then it will serve Wilmington quite well.  So they are asking for a "big fish" and will be quite happy to negotiate down to a "little fish".  My point is that an 18-mile extension of I-685 at something as low as $50M per mile is still approaching $1B and not justified, since there should be plenty of capacity on I-95 for the volume of traffic that gets diverted from I-40 in Greensboro onto I-685.

[LM117]

The Wilmington Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (WUAMPO) will vote at its next meeting on June 29 to endorse a proposal to extend the proposed I-685 along US 421 from Dunn to Wilmington:
https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2022/06/21/new-interstate-proposed-for-central-nc-could-extend-into-wilmington/

Resolution passed.

https://www.wect.com/2022/06/30/wmpo-passes-resolution-ask-ncdot-explore-future-i-685-extension/

[Great Lakes Roads]

The Wilmington Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (WUAMPO) will vote at its next meeting on June 29 to endorse a proposal to extend the proposed I-685 along US 421 from Dunn to Wilmington:
https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2022/06/21/new-interstate-proposed-for-central-nc-could-extend-into-wilmington/

Resolution passed.

https://www.wect.com/2022/06/30/wmpo-passes-resolution-ask-ncdot-explore-future-i-685-extension/

Here's probably how it went down.

Hey Wilmington, how many interstates do you need?
Wilmington: Yes
Okay, let's run it on US 421 from Dunn about 5-10 miles SE from I-40!
Wilmington (looking at it on a map): YESSSS!

In all seriousness, it looks really stupid on the map as it is literally paralleling I-40 to the SE from Dunn.

[Strider]

The Wilmington Urban Area Metropolitan Planning Organization (WUAMPO) will vote at its next meeting on June 29 to endorse a proposal to extend the proposed I-685 along US 421 from Dunn to Wilmington:
https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2022/06/21/new-interstate-proposed-for-central-nc-could-extend-into-wilmington/

Resolution passed.

https://www.wect.com/2022/06/30/wmpo-passes-resolution-ask-ncdot-explore-future-i-685-extension/

I highly doubt NCDOT would go with it. Widening US 421 could work, but I-685 does not need to go to Wilmington. Especially with I-40 so close by.

[Mapmikey]

I-685 to I-40 Newton Grove could be justified as an I-40 bypass of Raleigh, Chapel Hill and the entire I-85 overlay.  Then it should numbered 640 instead of 685

Taking to I-685 to Wilmington using US 421's corridor is a huge waste, even if resources were not an issue.

However, taking I-685 to Fayetteville and extending via NC 87 (which NCDOT is already slowly upgrading) could be worth studying as this could be helpful for more traffic than just port access.

[The Ghostbuster]

What are the traffic counts on US 421 between Dunn and Wilmington? If they are high enough to warrant an upgrade, maybe a four-lane expressway with at-grade intersections would suffice. If they are not high enough, then terminate future Interstate 685 at Interstate 95 (or perhaps build an Interstate 95-to-Interstate 40 connection to Newton Grove via NC 55).

[Dirt Roads]

What are the traffic counts on US 421 between Dunn and Wilmington? If they are high enough to warrant an upgrade, maybe a four-lane expressway with at-grade intersections would suffice. If they are not high enough, then terminate future Interstate 685 at Interstate 95 (or perhaps build an Interstate 95-to-Interstate 40 connection to Newton Grove via NC 55).

US-421 south of I-95 beyond Dunn has an AADT of 4,000.  The Clinton bypass has some pretty good numbers, and then US-421 south of Clinton hits an AADT of 5,900 but drops off to 3,400 south of Delway.  It drops off to 2,700 south of Harrells (actually Newtons Crossroads).  South of Wards Corner, the volumes start to pick up progressively towards Wilmington.  None of this indicates any significant through traffic.  Of course not, since I-40 is posted at 70 MPH almost the entire distance.

Just out of curiosity, I anticipated a sharp drop-off in traffic volumes along I-40 south of the Magnolia exit (NC-903/NC-24 Bypass) where much of the long-distance traffic heads east to Jacksonville and Camp LeJeune.  But the AADT goes up from 21,500 to 23,500 as you get south of that exit.  I do not see evidence of that in real life. 

[I'm not sure when this happened, but NCDOT is now showing a single AADT number for each freeway segment instead of a pair of numbers for each directional segment.  Anyone know when this change occurred?  It sure makes it easier.]

[Strider]

One of the YouTubers, "Tarheel Travels" drove on US 421 North from Wilmington to...? (it is still ongoing), watch his videos and you'll have the proof of why I-685 does not need to go to Wilmington.

This is one of his videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFKxRUR_bjM

For more videos, just go to his homepage.

[LM117]

I-685 to I-40 Newton Grove could be justified as an I-40 bypass of Raleigh, Chapel Hill and the entire I-85 overlay.

If the Wilmington MPO had any sense, this is exactly what they should be pushing. Being able to bypass the entire parking lot Triangle would get a lot more support from the state, and may even get support from the Triangle itself since it would help reduce truck traffic there. Being able to bypass the Triangle without paying tolls on NC-540 & NC-885 would be even more enticing.

[LM117]

One of the YouTubers, "Tarheel Travels" drove on US 421 North from Wilmington to...? (it is still ongoing), watch his videos and you'll have the proof of why I-685 does not need to go to Wilmington.

This is one of his videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFKxRUR_bjM

For more videos, just go to his homepage.

US-421 running parallel with I-40 should've been proof enough.

[WashuOtaku]

US-421 running parallel with I-40 should've been proof enough.

US 421 existed long before I-40 did, not the other way around.

[MATraveler128]

US-421 running parallel with I-40 should've been proof enough.

US 421 existed long before I-40 did, not the other way around.

And then I-40 was built rendering a US 421 Interstate between Dunn and Wilmington useless. Looks like a FritzOwl proposal.

[LM117]

US-421 running parallel with I-40 should've been proof enough.

US 421 existed long before I-40 did, not the other way around.

Ok, but I never mentioned anything about which route was older.

My point was that anyone (well, except for Wilmington MPO) can look at a map and see that US-421 & I-40 run parallel to from Dunn to I-40, and realize that making US-421 an interstate all the way to Wilmington is ridiculous and would be a complete waste of money.

[Bobby5280]

Why not end proposed I-685 in Fayetteville? That's a much more important destination than freaking Dunn. Fayetteville has a population over 200,000. There's another 40,000 people on Fort Bragg (soon to be re-named Fort Liberty). NC-87 has a few existing segments between Sanford and Fort Bragg that can be upgraded to Interstate standards. A Greensboro-Fayetteville corridor makes a lot more sense than running a wasteful parallel corridor from Dunn down to Wilmington.

[LM117]

Why not end proposed I-685 in Fayetteville? That's a much more important destination than freaking Dunn. Fayetteville has a population over 200,000. There's another 40,000 people on Fort Bragg (soon to be re-named Fort Liberty). NC-87 has a few existing segments between Sanford and Fort Bragg that can be upgraded to Interstate standards. A Greensboro-Fayetteville corridor makes a lot more sense than running a wasteful parallel corridor from Dunn down to Wilmington.

In the long run, having I-685 head towards Dunn would make more sense if it were extended further east to I-40 near Newton Grove. It would give Toyota a straight shot to the port in Wilmington, and provide a badly needed bypass of the entire Triangle for I-40 thru traffic.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see a bone thrown to Fayetteville in the form of an I-x95 between I-295 and I-685 in Sanford.

[The Ghostbuster]

If a "theoretical" Interstate 685-to-Interstate 295 3di were built (possibly utilizing the NC 87/NC 24/NC 210 corridors), they should give it the Interstate 495 designation.

[Bobby5280]

In the long run, having I-685 head towards Dunn would make more sense if it were extended further east to I-40 near Newton Grove. It would give Toyota a straight shot to the port in Wilmington, and provide a badly needed bypass of the entire Triangle for I-40 thru traffic.

The proposed Toyota EV battery factory in NC will add less than 2000 jobs. I don't think that's enough to justify what would be an expensive upgrade of the US-421 corridor through Dunn (and down to Wilmington) to Interstate standards.

US-421 between Sanford and Dunn would be harder to upgrade to Interstate standards than it would be to upgrade NC-87 between Sanford and Fayetteville. The Fort Bragg-Fayetteville metro is big enough to be worthy of another Interstate quality connection.

Additionally, Dunn is less than 10 miles from the I-40/I-95 interchange. Building another Interstate route parallel to that down to Wilmington would be one hell of a waste of money.

[sprjus4]

Extending to Dunn and I-95 along the US-421 (not an upgrade, it would be a new location facility) and providing a bypass of the Raleigh/Durham metro and the congested I-85 overlap for Wilmington bound traffic is a whole different thing than the ridiculous proposal to extend east of Dunn all the way to Wilmington.

It's not the same thing.

One terminates at I-95/I-40, and is reasonable, the other goes all the way to Wilmington and is not realistic.

[LM117]

Extending to Dunn and I-95 along the US-421 (not an upgrade, it would be a new location facility) and providing a bypass of the Raleigh/Durham metro and the congested I-85 overlap for Wilmington bound traffic is a whole different thing than the ridiculous proposal to extend east of Dunn all the way to Wilmington.

It's not the same thing.

One terminates at I-95/I-40, and is reasonable, the other goes all the way to Wilmington and is not realistic.

Took the words off my keyboard.

[Alps]

Extending to Dunn and I-95 along the US-421 (not an upgrade, it would be a new location facility) and providing a bypass of the Raleigh/Durham metro and the congested I-85 overlap for Wilmington bound traffic is a whole different thing than the ridiculous proposal to extend east of Dunn all the way to Wilmington.

It's not the same thing.

One terminates at I-95/I-40, and is reasonable, the other goes all the way to Wilmington and is not realistic.

The argument I believe is in question is extending it beyond I-95 to I-40 to close that triangle.

[nerdom]

No. He mentions all the way the Wilmington once and Down to Wilmington the second time. C'mon Ft. Sill. Acknowledge the short extension to Newton Grove. Yes. Upgrading 421 to Wilmington is the dumbest idea ever. It now looks like vehicle assembly will be going battery assembly at the Toyota site. Either way. No facilities are planned nor exist at this time for auto import/export in NC. You'd be heading to Charleston or Hampton Roads.

[WashuOtaku]

Wilmington has for years have been trying to get a second interstate built to the city. In the 2000s they tried to get I-20 extended east, something South Carolina did not care for; it eventually was dropped by NCDOT when Governor Mike Easley left office. They have also tried to hijack I-74, with little progress thus far. And now we are with I-685, which would be a redundant parallel route of I-40; I do not see NCDOT going along with this nor do I see any powerful backers lining up either. 

[LM117]

Wilmington has for years have been trying to get a second interstate built to the city. In the 2000s they tried to get I-20 extended east, something South Carolina did not care for; it eventually was dropped by NCDOT when Governor Mike Easley left office. They have also tried to hijack I-74, with little progress thus far. And now we are with I-685, which would be a redundant parallel route of I-40; I do not see NCDOT going along with this nor do I see any powerful backers lining up either. 

I-74 makes the most sense, so I don't blame them for trying to "hijack" that one.

(Yeah, I know...dead horse. )

[wdcrft63]

Wilmington has for years have been trying to get a second interstate built to the city. In the 2000s they tried to get I-20 extended east, something South Carolina did not care for; it eventually was dropped by NCDOT when Governor Mike Easley left office. They have also tried to hijack I-74, with little progress thus far. And now we are with I-685, which would be a redundant parallel route of I-40; I do not see NCDOT going along with this nor do I see any powerful backers lining up either. 

I-74 makes the most sense, so I don't blame them for trying to "hijack" that one.

(Yeah, I know...dead horse. )

I believe Wilmington will get I-74 (or maybe I-x74) sooner than I-685 will be completed.

[The Ghostbuster]

Given how many new Interstates have been popping up in North Carolina (and Texas), how long before the politicians promoting these additions ask that their own driveways become part of the Interstate System? It's ridiculous to say the least!