Interstate 73/74

[Strider]

Furthermore, they aren't abstract lines on the map (like a lot of I-69), they are real roads that are being built and will be completed.

Not outside of NC they aren't.  I-73 and I-74 will NEVER EVER be built in WV and OH, and I'm not holding my breath on VA and SC (though I expect SC will get to it eventually).  The two I-74s will NEVER connect, and that doesn't sit well with me.

They will get built in WV and OH. They are not in a hurry to get it all done. Never say never. If you don't like it.. don't comment. Again, this is Congress' ideas, not the states. get over it.

[Thing 342]

Furthermore, they aren't abstract lines on the map (like a lot of I-69), they are real roads that are being built and will be completed.

Not outside of NC they aren't.  I-73 and I-74 will NEVER EVER be built in WV and OH, and I'm not holding my breath on VA and SC (though I expect SC will get to it eventually).  The two I-74s will NEVER connect, and that doesn't sit well with me.

They will get built in WV and OH. They are not in a hurry to get it all done. Never say never. If you don't like it.. don't comment. Again, this is Congress' ideas, not the states. get over it.

Except that Congress has no power over state DOTs, with the exception of FHWA money (which was used to enforce mandatory seatbelts, drinking age 21, and the NMSL, not pet projects) that I'd very much doubt they'd pull over such a trivial matter. Congress may have ideas (insert political joke here), but they won't be implemented if the states affected aren't on board. Unless there is some sort of sea change in OH, WV, and MI, I-73/74 are not getting built there.

[wdcrft63]

Not outside of NC they aren't.  I-73 and I-74 will NEVER EVER be built in WV and OH, and I'm not holding my breath on VA and SC (though I expect SC will get to it eventually).  The two I-74s will NEVER connect, and that doesn't sit well with me.

I agree with you concerning I-74. I-73 is a good enough idea that it might be built eventually.

[Strider]

Not outside of NC they aren't.  I-73 and I-74 will NEVER EVER be built in WV and OH, and I'm not holding my breath on VA and SC (though I expect SC will get to it eventually).  The two I-74s will NEVER connect, and that doesn't sit well with me.

I agree with you concerning I-74. I-73 is a good enough idea that it might be built eventually.

Yea, I am not worried about I-74 (not a fan of the routing) but I-73 will be extended.

[LM117]

Furthermore, they aren't abstract lines on the map (like a lot of I-69), they are real roads that are being built and will be completed.

Not outside of NC they aren't.  I-73 and I-74 will NEVER EVER be built in WV and OH, and I'm not holding my breath on VA and SC (though I expect SC will get to it eventually).  The two I-74s will NEVER connect, and that doesn't sit well with me.

They will get built in WV and OH. They are not in a hurry to get it all done. Never say never. If you don't like it.. don't comment. Again, this is Congress' ideas, not the states. get over it.

I thought WV, OH and MI flat out said they had no intention of building I-73 or I-74? Am I missing something?

[WashuOtaku]

I thought WV, OH and MI flat out said they had no intention of building I-73 or I-74? Am I missing something?

You are right about Michigan and Ohio, but they can always change in the future, just depends who's the Governor and if they care. 

As for West Virginia, they are not exactly saying no to the interstates; currently the King Coal Highway has several divided four-lane sections and they keep extending it when they can.  It's not at "full" freeway grade, but it is an expressway that can be upgraded in future.  Currently it takes time and money to cut through mountains to build a road, which they are doing but slowly.  When they hit critical mass, they will likely re-designate US 52 into I-73/I-74.

[CanesFan27]

They should also be a logical addition, which to me would be connecting an area that currently is not (3di) or serving a major corridor that was left out and is a "hole" in the system (2di or 3di, depending on length).

An interstate isn't just a route that happens to meet some standards and have a certain shield.  It's a component in a larger, grander, and (ideally) orderly system of roadways efficiently forming the backbone of car/truck transportation in this country.

I've deleted the personal emotions of your reply and wanted to focus on specifically this.

Valerie:

I find it interesting that you agree that there is an overall larger network in play here but you then say an "ideally" orderly system.  You are assuming that all things are equal aren't you?  Obviously the demographics - specifically population centers - of this country has changed since the 1950s.  Additionally, there are geographic constraints to go along with it.   Further, aren't you somewhat contradicting yourself when you want an "ideally" orderly system.  What is an ideal system - and for that to happen you will have to have some trade-offs.

You said it should be a logical addition to the system.  Is not the Port of Morehead City (albeit small) and Seymour Johnson Air Force Base a key part of our transportation, defense, and supply chain network?  is not the Raleigh/Norfolk Corridor (you can debate 58 vs 64/13/17 sure) a key part as well.  After all goods and materials do come in and out of the Port of Norfolk to the South and southwest.

North Carolina has changed a lot in the last sixty years - wow we're up to sixty years for the Interstate System now - there are still some heavily rural areas and the industries of tobacco and textiles are unfortunately not what they were.  But Charlotte, Raleigh and durham, Greensboro and Winston-Salem have grown rapidly.

Was I-40 to Wilmington a bad extension?  Was the conversion of US 23 to Interstate standards connecting I-26 and the Port of Charleston to the I-81/40 corridors an example of a lack of respect to the orderly system?   Is some redundancy in the system a bad thing?

You are exactly right that this is a nationwide network that is the backbone of our transportation and commerce.  Is it not a good thing to try to meet those standards and include them into the Interstate System if the rotues can connect directly onto the existing system?  The country is not just limited to population centers.  There are numerous types of industries with manufacturing locations , distribution centers all throughout this company.  Large and small.  The amount of goods and materials shipped in either full truckload or less than truck load carriers is amazing.

[bob7374]

Well, regardless of what the other states may or may not do, I-73 is alive and well in NC. NCDOT is even opening a new diverging diamond interchange this weekend in Greensboro:
http://www.twcnews.com/nc/triad/news/2016/05/12/greensboro-gets-its-first-diverging-diamond-interchange.html

[roadman65]

My opinion is that if VDOT does build their end of it, the freeway would just end in Roanoke and have its northern terminus at I-81 where I-581 currently ends. 

At least it going there would do some good for motorists, even if SCDOT won't build their end from the State Line south of Rockingham to Myrtle Beach.

[SP Cook]

RE: US 52 in WV. 

US 52 received substantial upgrades in the early 1970s.  Many sections, particularly the part that was built anew along the Big Sandy (the old US 52 is WV 152) to the JCT with US 152 is really the best 2 lane road in the state. 

It is possible, in fact probable, that 52, will eventually be a 4-lane will eventually be finished from I-64 to the Prichard Intermodal Facility, which is about 10 miles of construction and for which the ROW was bought decades ago.   Although current DOH plans are to simply build a bridge over the Big Sandy and route traffic onto the existing 4-lane US 23 in Kentucky.

South of that the "Tolsia Highway" is nothing more than a line on a topo map. Maybe 30 air miles. Absoulutely nothing has been done and there are no plans.  This takes us down to the JCT with the 4-lane US 119/Corridor G.

Once 119 and 52 seperate at Williamson this is the King Coal Highway project.  About 12 miles are open, as a 2-lane with the grade for the other 2 lanes "banked".  This is a "win-win" project with a coal company striping the coal and leaving behind the road bed.  There is another 10 or so miles that could be done, provided the results of the next election make the mineing of coal legal again. 

South of that, the state is back on its own dime.  It is about 65 air miles to Bluefield.  Through some fo the worst terrain in the eastern US, and the poorest and most economically potential free areas in all of Appalachia.  Nothing has been done but a few lines on another topo map.

And all of this, if it would be built, would be with at grades and stop lights,   With no provision for interstate standards.

But it will not be built.  WV is FLAT broke.  And this project only shaves less than 10 miles off the existing I-64 and I-77 connection between Huntington and Bluefield.  And, south of about 2/3rd of the way through Wayne County, terrain that simply precludes any economic development if you build a gold plated 10 lane road.  Just too rugged.

And WV has plenty of other irons in the fire.  A (misguided and political, IMHO) 4-lane of WV 10 which is esentually the next river valley over, which is 1/3rd done and serves no purpose if not completed.  The rest of H.  Growth in the eastern panhandle.  US 35.  6-lane upgrades to I-64 from KY to Teays Valley and of (again misguided and political) I-79 from Pennsylvania to south of Clarksburg.  Bypasses of Beckley and Morgantown.   

The Faux I-74 will end at the VA-NC border forever.

[MazdaStrider]

My opinion is that if VDOT does build their end of it, the freeway would just end in Roanoke and have its northern terminus at I-81 where I-581 currently ends. 

At least it going there would do some good for motorists, even if SCDOT won't build their end from the State Line south of Rockingham to Myrtle Beach.

Yeah, I believe that is the approved routing of I-73 (anyone please correct me if I am wrong) and it is to run from I-81 in Roanoke, VA to Myrtle Beach, SC. But the real question is: does Myrtle Beach really need 2 interstates to end there?

[vdeane]

Additionally: WV did flirt with the idea of building I-74, but when the feds came back and said that having the coal miners leave the road bed would not be allowed for an interstate and they would have to use traditional bidding for the earthwork, WV said "f*** you" and decided to build the road to corridor standards instead, with no provisions for ever making it an interstate.  And yeah, it's not any better than the existing route and goes through the middle of nowhere.

In my previous posts I wasn't talking about I-40 to Wilmington... I was talking about the proposed I-74 to Wilmington, which has many of the same issues here as in WV: the existing interstate route is shorter and it goes through an area with no major towns.  It's basically contorting around various middle of nowhere areas to justify slapping interstate shields down.

I've been noticing that NC has a very dense freeway network.  Even if every road ever proposed in NY in the entire history of transportation had been built, NC's network would likely still be denser.  I guess some states just have zero tolerance for traffic.

[LM117]

My opinion is that if VDOT does build their end of it, the freeway would just end in Roanoke and have its northern terminus at I-81 where I-581 currently ends. 

At least it going there would do some good for motorists, even if SCDOT won't build their end from the State Line south of Rockingham to Myrtle Beach.

Yeah, I believe that is the approved routing of I-73 (anyone please correct me if I am wrong) and it is to run from I-81 in Roanoke, VA to Myrtle Beach, SC. But the real question is: does Myrtle Beach really need 2 interstates to end there?

Yep, that's the approved routing. And no, Myrtle Beach doesn't need 2 interstates. I-73 is enough. Count me in the "I-74 should end in Wilmington" group.

[MazdaStrider]

My opinion is that if VDOT does build their end of it, the freeway would just end in Roanoke and have its northern terminus at I-81 where I-581 currently ends. 

At least it going there would do some good for motorists, even if SCDOT won't build their end from the State Line south of Rockingham to Myrtle Beach.

Yeah, I believe that is the approved routing of I-73 (anyone please correct me if I am wrong) and it is to run from I-81 in Roanoke, VA to Myrtle Beach, SC. But the real question is: does Myrtle Beach really need 2 interstates to end there?

Yep, that's the approved routing. And no, Myrtle Beach doesn't need 2 interstates. I-73 is enough. Count me in the "I-74 should end in Wilmington" group.

Count me in the "I-74 should end in Wilmington" group as well, although I still strongly believe I-74 should end at I-73 near Randleman.

[WashuOtaku]

Yeah, I believe that is the approved routing of I-73 (anyone please correct me if I am wrong) and it is to run from I-81 in Roanoke, VA to Myrtle Beach, SC. But the real question is: does Myrtle Beach really need 2 interstates to end there?

Yep, that's the approved routing. And no, Myrtle Beach doesn't need 2 interstates. I-73 is enough. Count me in the "I-74 should end in Wilmington" group.

To be clear, I-74 is suppose to end at Georgetown, not Myrtle Beach. 

[mvak36]

Yep, that's the approved routing. And no, Myrtle Beach doesn't need 2 interstates. I-73 is enough. Count me in the "I-74 should end in Wilmington" group.

I definitely agree with this. Although, it's kind of a very roundabout way of getting there if someone takes 74 all the way there. But, it's a quicker way to get to Charlotte I guess.

[wdcrft63]

To be clear, I-74 is suppose to end at Georgetown, not Myrtle Beach. 

Actually it looks like it won't get that far. SC is extending the Carolina Bays Parkway (SC 31/Future I-74) to end at SC 707 south of Socastee and west of Surfside Beach. There are no plans at all to extend the freeway to Georgetown.

[LM117]

Yeah, I believe that is the approved routing of I-73 (anyone please correct me if I am wrong) and it is to run from I-81 in Roanoke, VA to Myrtle Beach, SC. But the real question is: does Myrtle Beach really need 2 interstates to end there?

Yep, that's the approved routing. And no, Myrtle Beach doesn't need 2 interstates. I-73 is enough. Count me in the "I-74 should end in Wilmington" group.

To be clear, I-74 is suppose to end at Georgetown, not Myrtle Beach. 

Welp.

[Grzrd]

This article reports on possible Presidential candidate Donald Trump providing some political theater (theater of the absurd?) regarding I-73 in South Carolina by quoting him saying that I-73 needs to be built ...:

Trump said Myrtle Beach has a bright future but needs to improve access to the area, specifically by building I-73 ....

This December 3 article reports that ... Donald Trump has recently re-emphasized the need to complete I-73:

The S.C. Department of Transportation Commission revived efforts Thursday to build Interstate 73, a controversial freeway long sought as a way to bring tourists to the Grand Strand ....
In a recent visit to Myrtle Beach, GOP frontrunner Donald Trump emphasized the need to complete the project ....
How the interstate would be paid for remains unknown ....

(above quote from I-73 & I-74 in S.C. thread)

That's the problem with ... South Carolina, they know the price tag for the whole project and it frightens them from actually building it ...

When I made the April 12, 2015 post about Trump, I did not believe that he would advance to become the presumptive Republican nominee; however, he is on the record as supporting I-73's completion in South Carolina. That said, as the second linked article in my post indicates, he has not clarified who will pay for it. 

Note however that Hillary Clinton, at least, has promised that she will restore a dedicated ARC funding stream if elected (whether she can deliver on this promise, of course, is a completely open question given that Congress has the power of the purse, not the president). If that happens, I'd imagine projects on the slow or back burner like the remainder of Corridor V (and maybe even the Interstate upgrade for the Batesville-Tupelo section - I'm not sure how that would interact with the 100% federal funding rule), I-99 north of I-80, and the Beltline will get renewed attention.

(above quote from Birmingham Northern Beltline (I-422, I-959) thrad)

Being mindful of the Forum Guidelines regarding political debate*, and in an effort to both keep any political discussion confined to the discussion of roads and to be fair to Democratic frontrunner Clinton, it appears that the race will boil down to Trump's "Complete I-73 in South Carolina!" vs. Clinton's "Restore the ARC funding stream!" Has the makings of a great debate question.

*

Political discussion is discouraged. Since discussion of roads will always involve politics to some degree, it is not outright banned, but members are instructed to remember that this forum is frequented by many people with diverse political beliefs, and strive to avoid protracted debate on the subject. The staff reserves the right to limit debate on political topics if a moderator judges the topic to be too divisive.

[HazMatt]

And WV has plenty of other irons in the fire.  A (misguided and political, IMHO) 4-lane of WV 10 which is esentually the next river valley over, which is 1/3rd done and serves no purpose if not completed.  The rest of H.  Growth in the eastern panhandle.  US 35.  6-lane upgrades to I-64 from KY to Teays Valley and of (again misguided and political) I-79 from Pennsylvania to south of Clarksburg.  Bypasses of Beckley and Morgantown.   

On that note, I know US 35 is being upgraded to 4-lanes but have there ever been talks of making that a freeway?  73/74 could potentially be routed that way, with 74 continuing to I-71 and then a concurrency down to Cincinnati to make it a continuous route.

[roadman65]

Yeah, I believe that is the approved routing of I-73 (anyone please correct me if I am wrong) and it is to run from I-81 in Roanoke, VA to Myrtle Beach, SC. But the real question is: does Myrtle Beach really need 2 interstates to end there?

Yep, that's the approved routing. And no, Myrtle Beach doesn't need 2 interstates. I-73 is enough. Count me in the "I-74 should end in Wilmington" group.

To be clear, I-74 is suppose to end at Georgetown, not Myrtle Beach. 

Wow big difference there.

Anyway, I-74 to Wilmington and I-73 to Myrtle Beach is what it should be.  However I always thought that I-74 from Rockingham to Wilmington should have been part of a longer intestate taking over US 74 between Charlotte and Wilmington.

[NE2]

When I made the April 12, 2015 post about Trump, I did not believe that he would advance to become the presumptive Republican nominee; however, he is on the record as supporting I-73's completion in South Carolina. That said, as the second linked article in my post indicates, he has not clarified who will pay for it. 

I guess the Mexican government will.

[Third Strike]

Yeah, I believe that is the approved routing of I-73 (anyone please correct me if I am wrong) and it is to run from I-81 in Roanoke, VA to Myrtle Beach, SC. But the real question is: does Myrtle Beach really need 2 interstates to end there?

Yep, that's the approved routing. And no, Myrtle Beach doesn't need 2 interstates. I-73 is enough. Count me in the "I-74 should end in Wilmington" group.

To be clear, I-74 is suppose to end at Georgetown, not Myrtle Beach. 

Wow big difference there.

Anyway, I-74 to Wilmington and I-73 to Myrtle Beach is what it should be.  However I always thought that I-74 from Rockingham to Wilmington should have been part of a longer intestate taking over US 74 between Charlotte and Wilmington.

According to North Carolina thread, the NCDOT has no current intentions to label the Monroe Bypass as an Interstate. However, if that's the case, I'm totally in favor of a new spur from I-74 in Rockingham, to the eastern terminus of the Monroe Bypass near Wingate. I still would have preferred a new I-3X delineation from Asheville, to Charlotte, and then Wilmington along US 74, and parts of I-85 and I-485 in the Charlotte metro.

[SP Cook]

On that note, I know US 35 is being upgraded to 4-lanes but have there ever been talks of making that a freeway?  73/74 could potentially be routed that way, with 74 continuing to I-71 and then a concurrency down to Cincinnati to make it a continuous route.

No, and it would be unneeded.  The complex of US 23, OH 32, US 50, and US 35, when all completed, is just fine for the purpose and traffic volumes. 

That is one thing that I think is kind of a symptom of roadgeekery.   We all have this fascination with the brand "interstate".  Part of that is roadgeekery.  Part of that leaks over into normal people, because "BUILD I-73" is about 1000X times a better sound bite than "fully fund the ARC corridor program" or even "upgrade US 220 to 4 lanes".  Common people know what an interstate is.

Look at all the discussions we have about 73, 74, 99, 69, etc.  While similar (similar good and similar boondoggle) projects not called interstate this or that are rarely discussed.

[roadman65]

Yeah, I believe that is the approved routing of I-73 (anyone please correct me if I am wrong) and it is to run from I-81 in Roanoke, VA to Myrtle Beach, SC. But the real question is: does Myrtle Beach really need 2 interstates to end there?

Yep, that's the approved routing. And no, Myrtle Beach doesn't need 2 interstates. I-73 is enough. Count me in the "I-74 should end in Wilmington" group.

To be clear, I-74 is suppose to end at Georgetown, not Myrtle Beach. 

Wow big difference there.

Anyway, I-74 to Wilmington and I-73 to Myrtle Beach is what it should be.  However I always thought that I-74 from Rockingham to Wilmington should have been part of a longer intestate taking over US 74 between Charlotte and Wilmington.

According to North Carolina thread, the NCDOT has no current intentions to label the Monroe Bypass as an Interstate. However, if that's the case, I'm totally in favor of a new spur from I-74 in Rockingham, to the eastern terminus of the Monroe Bypass near Wingate. I still would have preferred a new I-3X delineation from Asheville, to Charlotte, and then Wilmington along US 74, and parts of I-85 and I-485 in the Charlotte metro.

Back in 1995, I was in Rockingham, and this of course was before the bypass (Future 1-74) was built, and a lot of traffic (including semis) were using US 74 at the time.

I am sure there is enough demand for an interstate there.  I do not see why I-74 has to double back to the Myrtle Beach area when Wilmington, a perfectly good size city, is there in a straight line ahead.  Its like they are so blind building the I-73/I-74 thing with one thing in mind, that is giving the Myrtle Beach area two interstates they overlooked some other possibilities in the whole process.