AASHTO Route Numbering Archive

[cahwyguy]

A post on one of the FB groups I monitor led me to this: https://grmservices.grmims.com/vsearch/portal/public/na4/aashto/default

It is an archive of route submissions; the post in question was a link to the submission of I-110 in DTLA. But skimming through the archive, there's loads of stuff in there: When US numbers went away, the submissions for I-210 that were rejected, and more. I'll include it in the September headlines, but I thought I would give folks something to explore.

Here's the description: Welcome to the AASHTO Route Numbering Archive, a storehouse of applications, correspondence, minutes, and other documents related to the numbering of the US and Interstate highway systems and the US Bike Route System. To find a document, please enter any combination of search criteria in the task bar to the left. For additional instructions, please click on the Help button.

Just have it give you all documents related to California.

[Rothman]

There is already a long thread devoted to this.

[cahwyguy]

I really only read this particular forum (and even then, only periodically), so I did not see that other thread. There are likely others who are unaware of the other thread for similar reasons. But that's why I tried to keep the comment focused on the California related material (because, if you've seen my website, that's what I'm really interested in).

I suggest you provide a pointer to the other thread, and general discussion can continue there. Hopefully, this particular thread can focus on any specific CALIFORNIA (or, Pacific Southwest) finds in that archive (which was my hope).

[Rothman]

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaaroads%2Ecom%2Fforum%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D27710%2E0&share_tid=27710&share_fid=74954&share_type=t&link_source=app

Here you go.  Haven't seen your website.

[cahwyguy]

Take a look at www.cahighways.org. Anything you want to know about a numbered highway in California. Been around since the early 1990s.

[bugo]

Just out of curiosity, which Facebook group did you see the link in? I spammed a bunch of groups with it on Saturday night. I am an admin to several groups, and I posted this link to most of them.

[cahwyguy]

Freeways of Los Angeles. I'm active there and in the Bay Area equivalent. I was active in California's Historic Highways before the whole Joel Windmiller / Mike Ballard mess, and that group (which I'm told still exists) seems to have ghosted me.

Daniel

[Max Rockatansky]

Adam even posted a link on the Gribblenation Facebook page and blog site.  Seems as though the database is really making the rounds in the road community.  The most interesting finding I've seen so far is NE2 tracking down that US 66 was intended to originally end in San Fernando. 

[bugo]

I am an admin for several Facebook groups that I have created over the years. Six of the groups have over 1000 members: Old Highway Alignments which has over 2,800 members, Historic Road Signs with over 2700, Sign Errors with over 1600, Map Scans with almost 1600, Road Enthusiasts with over 1200 and Highway Ends with over 1100 members. Button Copy, Arkansas Bridges, Digitech RP360/RP 360XP (a guitar pedal/effects processor), Texas Highways and Oklahoma Highways have over 100 members. Believe it or not, there is very little drama on these groups. I have a libertarian style of moderating the groups, and there isn't a long list of rules. I don't believe in threatening somebody before they even do something, so I don't have that post that most groups have that has a bunch of nitpicky rules and threats about what will happen if you break these rules. It has been mostly successful, with only a few minor incidents. Some of the groups have had zero drama whatsoever. But anyway, I spammed several of the groups to that link. I really think this is the biggest thing to happen to the road community in the last 5 years. I have already learned a lot of things I didn't know before. 

[Max Rockatansky]

I am an admin for several Facebook groups that I have created over the years. Six of the groups have over 1000 members: Old Highway Alignments which has over 2,800 members, Historic Road Signs with over 2700, Sign Errors with over 1600, Map Scans with almost 1600, Road Enthusiasts with over 1200 and Highway Ends with over 1100 members. Button Copy, Arkansas Bridges, Digitech RP360/RP 360XP (a guitar pedal/effects processor), Texas Highways and Oklahoma Highways have over 100 members. Believe it or not, there is very little drama on these groups. I have a libertarian style of moderating the groups, and there isn't a long list of rules. I don't believe in threatening somebody before they even do something, so I don't have that post that most groups have that has a bunch of nitpicky rules and threats about what will happen if you break these rules. It has been mostly successful, with only a few minor incidents. Some of the groups have had zero drama whatsoever. But anyway, I spammed several of the groups to that link. I really think this is the biggest thing to happen to the road community in the last 5 years. I have already learned a lot of things I didn't know before.

But weren't most of your groups private (I'm a member of several) from the get go?  We don't have much trouble in any of the Gribblenation groups, but they mostly filled with known people in the hobby. 

The issue described above affected more than just the California's Historic Highways group.  Freeways of Los Angeles handled it the best and pretty rationally I thought, Historic US Route 99 went private and restricted content (for awhile regarding the Ridge Route was restricted), and the moderator of California's Historic Highways ghosted a lot of the road California road community (unfairly in my opinion) for some reason.  For what it's worth I don't know either of the parties that were involved personally (although I've interacted with both) but it seems that if sourced were cited in regards to certain photos there wouldn't have been a problem.  Either way, the situation could have been resolved far more cleanly by the two primary parties involved and would have spared the rest of us from having to watch it on our news feeds.  .

Oddly as of late I've been finding groups like; Yosemite History, Mojave Desert Group, and I love the Sierra to be better places to discuss California Highways than the actual highway groups (sans Freeways of Los Angeles which I think is probably the best California road group).

With the AASHO database, yes it is one of the more significant finds in the last couple years.  But that said, a lot more documents like this are becoming available as they are scanned online.  It is infinitely easier to find and reference information than it was ten years ago.  I often find myself going back and updating older articles these days with the new information that is available.  I'm assuming the AASHO database will another such boon in information provided it stays online. 

[bugo]

But weren't most of your groups private (I'm a member of several) from the get go?  We don't have much trouble in any of the Gribblenation groups, but they mostly filled with known people in the hobby. 

The groups all started out as public, but I switched most of them to private when a member of several of the groups was caught selling prints of pictures that he downloaded from the group. We had to ban him so we made the groups private after that. That was by far the biggest dramatic incident so far in any of the groups.

[cahwyguy]

I have debated creating a group under the auspices of the page I already have on FB for California Highways that I would moderate. I'm not sure, however, that I want to go to the trouble. I used to moderate groups in the days of Usenet, and I ran a moderated mailing list for almost 20 years. I mentioned this idea when I did my updates at the beginning of August; no one seemed to say "Yes, we need this.".

I"ve taken a look at the AASHTO archive, such as it currently is, with respect to California (I'm starting work on my pages, and I was looking to see if they had any resolution regarding the stub of Route 10 between US 101 and I-5 as to whether it was still in the Interstate system). Other than a lot of churn and proposed numbers in the 1957-1958 time frame, there's not that much there yet. I also looked to see if there was correspondence on the I-238 mess, and there really wasn't. So I think the archive is pretty incomplete on the later information (although there looks to be some good stuff on US 466).

[Max Rockatansky]

But weren't most of your groups private (I'm a member of several) from the get go?  We don't have much trouble in any of the Gribblenation groups, but they mostly filled with known people in the hobby. 

The groups all started out public, but I switched most of them to private when a member of several of the groups was caught selling prints of pictures that he downloaded from the group. We had to ban him so we made the groups private after that. That was by far the biggest dramatic incident so far in any of the groups.

What I've never understood about that practice of theft is that Facebook hugely compresses said photos.  Maybe a viable print image could be stolen and sold a decade to fifteen years  ago?  Nowadays those compressed photos come out all washy and blurred compared to the original image data.  To that end with that context I personally feel pretty comfortable posting images in public view on Facebook groups because I'm the only one who has the original image file.  Either way, a source ought to be cited no matter what. 

[Max Rockatansky]

I have debated creating a group under the auspices of the page I already have on FB for California Highways that I would moderate. I'm not sure, however, that I want to go to the trouble. I used to moderate groups in the days of Usenet, and I ran a moderated mailing list for almost 20 years. I mentioned this idea when I did my updates at the beginning of August; no one seemed to say "Yes, we need this.".

I"ve taken a look at the AASHTO archive, such as it currently is, with respect to California (I'm starting work on my pages, and I was looking to see if they had any resolution regarding the stub of Route 10 between US 101 and I-5 as to whether it was still in the Interstate system). Other than a lot of churn and proposed numbers in the 1957-1958 time frame, there's not that much there yet. I also looked to see if there was correspondence on the I-238 mess, and there really wasn't. So I think the archive is pretty incomplete on the later information (although there looks to be some good stuff on US 466).

To that end, I also found it had more conjecture than actual parts of the narrative of certain highways as it pertains to California.  The very early US Route stuff is intriguing but also isn't too far outside the known scope of information from what I've read so far. 

Our Facebook page gets far more of a following then any of our groups do.  To that end our groups tend to be a "best of collection"  of items we find from other sources I've noticed.  Running something like a California's Historic Highways or Freewayjim style group doesn't hold a ton of appeal for me personally.  I kind of like just posting cool photo and articles. 

[Max Rockatansky]

Regarding historical information pertaining to State Highways in California I feel like we have been incredibly fortunate.  Most of our actual legislation and public documentation regarding State Highways is generally open source and easy to find.  In regards to CAhighways it is a pretty amazing piece of work putting all that legislative history in regards to our State Highways into a single source that has been available for decades.  My own articles pertaining to State Highways in California wouldn't be half of what they are without the information Daniel has on his site.  It is also incredibly helpful that the entire run of California Highways & Public Works is available in addition to likely what is every Division of Highways/Caltrans State Maps ever published.  There isn't another state I can think of which I write articles about that has so much State Highway information readily available.  What I'm finding with a lot of the AASHO documents is that the information is already duplicated in some instances with the CHPW or legislative information. 

Now if somehow we can get all the ACSC and CSAA maps scanned online that would be where the REAL last remaining State Highway mysteries can be solved.