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Author Topic: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)  (Read 268629 times)

CanesFan27

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2016, 07:01:23 PM »

I figure this thread is better suited for the Southeast forum since most of the route is in NC. Ok, let me kick this off with a question. Does anybody know if NCDOT has put up any "Future I-87" signs along US-64 and/or US-17? I realize that I-495/Future I-495 hasn't been officially decommissioned from US-64 yet, but I figured I'd ask since NCDOT seemingly jumped the gun and put up Future I-42 signs on US-70 without FHWA approval (unless it was quietly approved), so it wouldn't surprise me if NCDOT got ahead of themselves again. I'm not expecting any Future I-87 signs on US-17 in VA since VDOT never applied to AASHTO for it.

As discussed on southeast Roads in Facebook - wooden sign posts are up on US 64 east of Rocky mount but without signs.  I work in Rocky Mount and go past the planned future interstate 87 signs will be just east of the 95 interchange.  As of this morning they remain empty as they have for three weeks.

Thanks for the update. I don't have a Facebook account so that's why I was out of the loop.

Here is a photo from two weeks ago of said sign posts.  They still sit empty today...but they're drinking Milk and before you know it....

Future I-87 Coming Soon by Adam Prince, on Flickr
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LM117

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2016, 09:01:35 PM »

I figure this thread is better suited for the Southeast forum since most of the route is in NC. Ok, let me kick this off with a question. Does anybody know if NCDOT has put up any "Future I-87" signs along US-64 and/or US-17? I realize that I-495/Future I-495 hasn't been officially decommissioned from US-64 yet, but I figured I'd ask since NCDOT seemingly jumped the gun and put up Future I-42 signs on US-70 without FHWA approval (unless it was quietly approved), so it wouldn't surprise me if NCDOT got ahead of themselves again. I'm not expecting any Future I-87 signs on US-17 in VA since VDOT never applied to AASHTO for it.

As discussed on southeast Roads in Facebook - wooden sign posts are up on US 64 east of Rocky mount but without signs.  I work in Rocky Mount and go past the planned future interstate 87 signs will be just east of the 95 interchange.  As of this morning they remain empty as they have for three weeks.

Thanks for the update. I don't have a Facebook account so that's why I was out of the loop.

Here is a photo from two weeks ago of said sign posts.  They still sit empty today...but they're drinking Milk and before you know it....

Future I-87 Coming Soon by Adam Prince, on Flickr

Thanks, and yeah, I doubt those sign posts will be empty for much longer. I'm kinda surprised it still isn't signed, given how quick NCDOT put up Future I-42 signs along US-70. But I'm guessing Future I-87 will be up east of I-95 within a month.
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LM117

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2016, 09:08:23 PM »

I know it's not directly road-related, but a recent announcement today involving development near the I-87 corridor could move the upgrade of US-64 up a notch or two in the future.

http://www.wral.com/csx-to-build-massive-cargo-terminal-in-edgecombe-county/15861789/

Quote
ROCKY MOUNT, N.C. — After months of discussion and debate, CSX announced Tuesday that it will build its massive Carolina Connector cargo terminal in Edgecombe County.

The hub, which is expected to open in 2020, will be built between Battleboro and College roads south of U.S. Highway 301 in Rocky Mount. Officials anticipate 300 permanent jobs at the site, as well as 250 to 300 construction jobs.

Cargo transfer hubs improve efficiency in distributing goods from manufacturers to retailers and consumers, officials said, and they also reduce truck traffic on state highways. Studies by the state Department of Transportation show warehouses and other facilities usually cluster around such hubs, and officials have projected the Carolina Connector could eventually spawn up to 13,000 related jobs statewide.

DOT plans to provide $110 million in improvements to rail lines and terminal infrastructure, while CSX will invest $160 million in the project. The company also qualifies for up to $4.3 million in rebates of employee withholding taxes under a Job Development Investment Grant if it meets annual hiring and investment targets in the coming years, as well as $7.8 million in state tax credits.

Officials said the company was attracted to the Rocky Mount site because of its proximity to CSX’s main north-south rail line, Interstate 95 and the future Interstate 87 corridor from the Triangle to Norfolk, Va., and the planned Interstate 42 corridor from the Triangle to Morehead City.
According to WRAL's version of this story, NC beat out VA and SC for this facility.

It's a nice reminder that highways can/should be built for tomorrow's traffic as well as today's.

Agreed. However, I was surprised about VA. I wasn't even aware they were competing for it. No mention of it was ever made on the local news stations here. I already knew about SC. SC did their damndest to steal the CSX hub from NC once they caught wind of the NIMBY's in Johnston County raising hell.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 09:21:14 PM by LM117 »
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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2016, 08:51:19 AM »

Quote
and they also reduce truck traffic on state highways.

You two must've missed this part of the article.  The intent of such facilities is to get more freight onto rail, not to add trucks onto highways.
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CanesFan27

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2016, 09:52:56 AM »

Quote
and they also reduce truck traffic on state highways.

You two must've missed this part of the article.  The intent of such facilities is to get more freight onto rail, not to add trucks onto highways.


A couple of quick things.  First Froggie is exactly right - this will take trucks off the highway - between RM and the ports along the coast.   Warehouses will cluster around this site. It'll be located just east of US 301 between current US 64 and NC 4.  Actually the recently opened four lane Betts Parkway terminates pretty much at the site.

Although it will take trucks off the road - it will be a key on loading and offloading site. So trucks will start or end journeys from Rocky Mount. This along with the interstate designations will be attractions for the area. At best it could accelerate upgrading 64 to Raleigh to standards but I don't see anything for Williamston to VA improved by this.

Who knows maybe improvements to 95 as well. It also I think along with the Virgina Atlantic Gateway project may help NC push to shift passenger rail along the 85 corridor as part of the SE high speed rail corridor.

Who knows - but this is great news for Rocky Mount that has been hit hard over the past few decades with various companies leaving town.
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LM117

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2016, 10:09:19 AM »

Quote
and they also reduce truck traffic on state highways.

You two must've missed this part of the article.  The intent of such facilities is to get more freight onto rail, not to add trucks onto highways.


Although it will take trucks off the road - it will be a key on loading and offloading site. So trucks will start or end journeys from Rocky Mount. This along with the interstate designations will be attractions for the area. At best it could accelerate upgrading 64 to Raleigh to standards but I don't see anything for Williamston to VA improved by this.

You said it better than I could've. I didn't miss that article tidbit that froggie claims that I did. This was exactly what I was thinking. I agree that US-17 won't likely be affected by this. However, on a slightly (but brief) off-topic note, it may also accelerate I-795's extension from Goldsboro to I-40 since it would essentially be a direct route to the Port of Wilmington from Rocky Mount. I-42 is already well underway for most of it's corridor, so I don't see that changing.

BTW, if you're interested, here's an article giving full details in how Rocky Mount landed the CSX hub.

http://www.rockymounttelegram.com/News/2016/07/20/Local-officials-craft-deal-to-bring-CSX-terminal-to-area.html
« Last Edit: July 20, 2016, 10:18:20 AM by LM117 »
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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2016, 12:29:51 PM »

If this is going to impact Future Interstates in the area at all, it would be west of I-95 towards Raleigh and the manufacturing hubs around central North Carolina.  It MIGHT accelerate I-795's extension to I-40, but I doubt this will pull much from either Wilmington or Moorhead City because those ports are hamstrung by shallower depths.  And it won't pull much from Hampton Roads because the main draw to/from there is either cross country or on already-existing Interstates and rail tracks that don't go to North Carolina**.


** - I'm aware of the CSX line that heads northeast from Weldon, NC to Franklin, VA, but that line A) needs some work and B) does not directly connect via CSX trackage to the Norfolk or Portsmouth terminals.  That's either Norfolk Southern or short line railroads that connect to the Southside terminals.  CSX only directly connects to the Newport News terminal, but from NC that would require trains to go to Richmond and loop 3/4 around the city to access the tracks.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2016, 12:36:55 PM by froggie »
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LM117

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2016, 01:31:23 PM »

It MIGHT accelerate I-795's extension to I-40, but I doubt this will pull much from either Wilmington or Moorhead City because those ports are hamstrung by shallower depths.

Morehead City's port may be hampered, but I doubt the Port of Wilmington will be hampered for much longer. Wilmington's port just received their first post-Panamax container ship earlier this month, with the ability to handle even larger post-Panamax ships later this summer.

From July 5:
https://apps.ncdot.gov/newsreleases/details.aspx?r=12709

Quote
Wilmington, N.C. – Building upon Governor Pat McCrory’s efforts to increase trade and promote economic growth at our state ports, North Carolina officials welcomed the largest containership to visit the Port of Wilmington. The Hanjin Baltimore, measuring 984 feet in length and 140 feet in width, is the first of many post-Panamax vessels to be served at the recently updated container port in North Carolina.

"Our state ports are an important asset for creating jobs and connecting North Carolinians to opportunities around the world," said Governor McCrory. "This important milestone shows our commitment to supporting our ports and overall economy is paying off and keeping North Carolina globally competitive."

The expansion of the North Carolina ports is a key part of Governor McCrory’s 25-year Vision for North Carolina. That includes providing access for the Panamax vessels, expanding access to the ports inland by developing intermodal train service at the Port of Wilmington, and pursuing opportunities to develop intermodal facilities along the I-95 corridor to improve the movement of goods through North Carolina and along the East Coast.

“This is an important day for our Ports and for the State of North Carolina,” said Executive Director Paul J. Cozza. “We’ve been working diligently on modernizing our ports and to see our plans come to fruition by proving that the Port of Wilmington is big ship ready is a great feeling.”

Built in 2005 by Hyundai Heavy Industries, the Hanjin Baltimore has served various Far East trade lanes in its tenure. Holding 7,500 twenty-foot equivalent units (TEUs), which are containers 20 feet long and eight feet tall, the vessel is approximately 63 percent larger than any ship that has ever visited the Port of Wilmington.

“This vessel not only signifies improving global trade but it also represents the future,” said Chief Commercial Officer Greg Fennell. “If there was ever a doubt that we could not accept a post-Panamax vessel, this ship puts that debate to rest.”

Recent infrastructure advancements allow North Carolina’s Ports to improve upon its operational efficiencies, to keep cargo moving and to remain congestion free. The Port of Wilmington will be prepared to handle even larger post-Panamax vessels, up to the 10,000 TEU class, by later this summer.

“This landmark event is the product of a North Carolina Ports infrastructure investment plan to meet shipping industry requirements,” said Tom Adams, Chairman of the Board of Directors. “With the expansion of the Panama Canal taking place last weekend, the Port of Wilmington is adding new cranes, an enhanced berth, a wider turning basin and will have further expansion in the future.”

North Carolina's Ports in Wilmington and Morehead City, plus inland terminals in Charlotte and Greensboro, link the state's consumers, businesses and industry to world markets, and serve as magnets to attract new business and industry while receiving no direct taxpayer subsidy. Port activities contribute statewide to 76,000 jobs and $700 million each year in state and local tax revenues.

« Last Edit: July 20, 2016, 02:51:16 PM by LM117 »
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CanesFan27

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2016, 03:22:39 PM »

It MIGHT accelerate I-795's extension to I-40, but I doubt this will pull much from either Wilmington or Moorhead City because those ports are hamstrung by shallower depths.

Morehead City's port may be hampered, but I doubt the Port of Wilmington will be hampered for much longer. Wilmington's port just received their first post-Panamax container ship earlier this month, with the ability to handle even larger post-Panamax ships later this summer.

From July 5:
https://apps.ncdot.gov/newsreleases/details.aspx?r=12709

Quote
Wilmington, N.C. – Building upon Governor Pat McCrory’s efforts to increase trade and promote economic growth at our state ports, North Carolina officials welcomed the largest containership to visit the Port of Wilmington. The Hanjin Baltimore, measuring 984 feet in length and 140 feet in width, is the first of many post-Panamax vessels to be served at the recently updated container port in North Carolina.

"Our state ports are an important asset for creating jobs and connecting North Carolinians to opportunities around the world," said Governor McCrory. "This important milestone shows our commitment to supporting our ports and overall economy is paying off and keeping North Carolina globally competitive."

The expansion of the North Carolina ports is a key part of Governor McCrory’s 25-year Vision for North Carolina. That includes providing access for the Panamax vessels, expanding access to the ports inland by developing intermodal train service at the Port of Wilmington, and pursuing opportunities to develop intermodal facilities along the I-95 corridor to improve the movement of goods through North Carolina and along the East Coast.

“This is an important day for our Ports and for the State of North Carolina,” said Executive Director Paul J. Cozza. “We’ve been working diligently on modernizing our ports and to see our plans come to fruition by proving that the Port of Wilmington is big ship ready is a great feeling.”

Built in 2005 by Hyundai Heavy Industries, the Hanjin Baltimore has served various Far East trade lanes in its tenure. Holding 7,500 twenty-foot equivalent units (TEUs), which are containers 20 feet long and eight feet tall, the vessel is approximately 63 percent larger than any ship that has ever visited the Port of Wilmington.

“This vessel not only signifies improving global trade but it also represents the future,” said Chief Commercial Officer Greg Fennell. “If there was ever a doubt that we could not accept a post-Panamax vessel, this ship puts that debate to rest.”

Recent infrastructure advancements allow North Carolina’s Ports to improve upon its operational efficiencies, to keep cargo moving and to remain congestion free. The Port of Wilmington will be prepared to handle even larger post-Panamax vessels, up to the 10,000 TEU class, by later this summer.

“This landmark event is the product of a North Carolina Ports infrastructure investment plan to meet shipping industry requirements,” said Tom Adams, Chairman of the Board of Directors. “With the expansion of the Panama Canal taking place last weekend, the Port of Wilmington is adding new cranes, an enhanced berth, a wider turning basin and will have further expansion in the future.”

North Carolina's Ports in Wilmington and Morehead City, plus inland terminals in Charlotte and Greensboro, link the state's consumers, businesses and industry to world markets, and serve as magnets to attract new business and industry while receiving no direct taxpayer subsidy. Port activities contribute statewide to 76,000 jobs and $700 million each year in state and local tax revenues.



Morehead City is an afterthought and isn't a factor.  Wilmington may have the capability but it can't currently handle a large volume as other ports. 

Check out these links to see how Wilmington compares to other ports and that Morehead really is a fishing dock compared to the others.

http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/publications/bts_fact_sheets/october_2010/html/figure_03.html

 

http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/publications/bts_fact_sheets/october_2010/html/figure_04.html

 

http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/publications/bts_fact_sheets/october_2010/html/table_06.html

 

http://www.inboundlogistics.com/cms/article/southeast-ports-whats-on-the-horizon/

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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2016, 04:53:20 PM »

If Interstate 87 were to enter Virginia, the Highway 168/Interstate 464 corridor would be the route I'd choose for it, since most of that stretch is already built as a freeway/tollway combo.
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LM117

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2016, 07:05:00 PM »

If Interstate 87 were to enter Virginia, the Highway 168/Interstate 464 corridor would be the route I'd choose for it, since most of that stretch is already built as a freeway/tollway combo.

Personally, in a perfect world, I would too. Problem is, a new terrain route would be needed to connect US-17 north of Elizabeth City to VA-168, which would be a non-starter due to the sensitive wetlands it would cross and the inevitable lawsuits that would incur if such a route had been chosen. It would cost more money than the trouble's worth, between construction costs and litigation costs. Upgrading US-17 is the only feasible option here.

However, I-464 could easily become part of I-87, which would make more sense ending at I-264 in Norfolk rather than I-64 in Chesapeake. Whether VDOT and/or the leaders in Hampton Roads will consider it is a different story. I'm not sure how much work, if any, would need to be done to the current I-64/I-264/US-17/VA-168 interchange in Chesapeake in order to extend I-87 over I-464. I've driven I-64 through Chesapeake multiple times since I have relatives living in Norfolk and Virginia Beach, but I didn't pay much attention to the interchange design.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2016, 07:41:36 PM by LM117 »
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Thing 342

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2016, 02:39:03 PM »

If Interstate 87 were to enter Virginia, the Highway 168/Interstate 464 corridor would be the route I'd choose for it, since most of that stretch is already built as a freeway/tollway combo.

Personally, in a perfect world, I would too. Problem is, a new terrain route would be needed to connect US-17 north of Elizabeth City to VA-168, which would be a non-starter due to the sensitive wetlands it would cross and the inevitable lawsuits that would incur if such a route had been chosen. It would cost more money than the trouble's worth, between construction costs and litigation costs. Upgrading US-17 is the only feasible option here.

However, I-464 could easily become part of I-87, which would make more sense ending at I-264 in Norfolk rather than I-64 in Chesapeake. Whether VDOT and/or the leaders in Hampton Roads will consider it is a different story. I'm not sure how much work, if any, would need to be done to the current I-64/I-264/US-17/VA-168 interchange in Chesapeake in order to extend I-87 over I-464. I've driven I-64 through Chesapeake multiple times since I have relatives living in Norfolk and Virginia Beach, but I didn't pay much attention to the interchange design.
That interchange is a mostly-standard cloverleaf, with C/D lanes headed WB (due east). It gets badly congested heading EB (due west) during rush hour due to weaving in the interchange and a bottleneck as one heads toward the High-Rise bridge.

The major problem with using the Chesapeake Expressway for I-87, as you alluded to is the fact that you would have to build a completely new route between South Mills and Moyock over sensitive wetland area, which, given NCDOT's relationship with environmental groups in the past, is likely a non-starter.

Furthermore, the VA-168 freeway is not up to interstate standards, and any interstate conversion would likely require major repairs to the bridge over the Intracoastal Waterway near Great Bridge.
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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2016, 11:11:48 AM »

As I've mentioned in the I-795 and I-42 threads, I've been checking out NCDOT's preliminary 2018-2027 STIP page. Here are the projects listed for the I-87 corridor (US-64/US-17):

-Widen I-495/US-64 from 6 lanes to 8 lanes from I-440 to US-64 Business near Knightdale.

-Upgrade US-64 to interstate standards from Rolesville Road/Knightdale Bypass to the Martin County line just east of Bethel.

-Upgrade US-17 to interstate standards from US-64 in Williamston to the Virginia state line with the project broken up into phases.

That's it for the NC's part of I-87. I couldn't find anything from VDOT regarding US-17 in Hampton Roads other than the Dominion Boulevard project.

https://www.ncdot.gov/strategictransportationinvestments/2018-2027.html
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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2016, 11:50:27 AM »

The 8 lanes on the Kdale Bypass I personally don't see as a top priority.  Upgrading east of exit 430 - yes.  I do believe that making 64/495/87 what have you six lanes from Rolesville Road to the 64/264 split in Zebulon is a necessity - considering eastern wake will continue to grow over the next decade plus.  (Since I live in and commute through eastern wake) I do have bias.

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2016, 11:59:09 AM »

The 8 lanes on the Kdale Bypass I personally don't see as a top priority.  Upgrading east of exit 430 - yes.  I do believe that making 64/495/87 what have you six lanes from Rolesville Road to the 64/264 split in Zebulon is a necessity - considering eastern wake will continue to grow over the next decade plus.  (Since I live in and commute through eastern wake) I do have bias.

I agree. I drove on the Knightdale Bypass last year and it seemed to flow just fine as a 6-lane highway. 8 lanes would be overkill, IMO. US-64 between the Knightdale Bypass and the split in Zebulon definitely needs 6-lanes. It got pretty congested on that stretch. Why they put 8-laning the Knightdale Bypass and not 6-laning the road between the bypass and the Zebulon split on the STIP is beyond me.
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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #40 on: August 07, 2016, 03:32:04 PM »

NCDOT Secretary Nick Tennyson wrote an Op-Ed in The Virginian-Pilot regarding the future CSX Carolina Connector hub in Rocky Mount and I-87.

http://pilotonline.com/opinion/columnist/guest/nick-tennyson-project-will-better-connect-n-c-to-va/article_47c69601-4bcc-5e32-8951-77f4ea556b70.html

Quote
PLANNING AND executing multi-faceted transportation infrastructure is not only crucial to easing congestion and improving reliability, but it also can foster economic growth and the creation of new jobs.

North Carolina Gov. Pat McCrory recently announced a new transportation hub to be constructed in Rocky Mount. Known as the Carolina Connector, the terminal will position the state as a national leader in intermodal freight movement and promote job creation.

Economic studies indicate the new facility will create 1,500 jobs in North Carolina as a result of the terminal’s operations and support the creation of thousands of jobs throughout North Carolina and Virginia.

I was present for the historic news, which is one of the most important transportation and commerce initiatives ever announced for eastern North Carolina. It is also important for future commerce in southeastern Virginia.

Along with the future interstate it will link to, the hub is a central component of the governor’s 25-Year Vision for Transportation, and demonstrates the administration’s commitment to continued investment in infrastructure.

The growing need for seamless freight movement is critical in today’s global economy. North Carolina is now positioned to play a pivotal role in both receiving raw goods originating from around the world and in distributing products and produce to a global market.

The state-of-the-art terminal thus puts local businesses at a distinct advantage and gives the state significant leverage in attracting future opportunities.


Freight today moves in containers that can easily be transferred at central hubs like the Carolina Connector to other trains and trucks that will carry the cargo to its final destination.

Planning for future roads and rail lines to handle this kind of traffic is also under way.

The strategic location of the Carolina Connector is convenient to other transportation resources and has geographical advantages. It is in close proximity to CSX’s main north-south rail line, Interstate 95 and the future I-87 and I-42 corridors and is in a great position to serve Raleigh’s economic center.

The future I-87 designation for U.S. 64/17 is critical to the economic futures of both northeastern North Carolina and southeastern Virginia because it will better connect Raleigh to Hampton Roads.

We are also preparing our state for future success through an overhaul of the state’s transportation funding formula. As in Virginia, transportation projects are now scored based on merit, not politics.

The Carolina Connector would not be possible without the new data-driven funding formula implemented in 2013, which qualified the project for $100 million in state funding for track improvements and connecting infrastructure at the new facility.

The Carolina Connector and future highway designations are prime examples of how the McCrory administration is successfully improving the future of travel and commerce in the Southeast.
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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2016, 04:56:45 PM »

How long before the 495 shields between Interstate 440 and Interstate 540 disappear?
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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2016, 05:41:34 PM »

How long before the 495 shields between Interstate 440 and Interstate 540 disappear?

When NCDOT requests AASHTO to decommission I-495 in favor of I-87.  It's a process.
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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #43 on: August 08, 2016, 05:53:17 PM »

How long before the 495 shields between Interstate 440 and Interstate 540 disappear?

There's been no word on it, but I'm almost positive NCDOT will seek to decommission I-495/Future I-495 during AASHTO's next meeting. At the same time, they'll also likely ask for what's now signed as I-495 to become I-87.

Another possibility that might happen is that NCDOT could ask to decommission the small part of I-440 that I-87 is supposed to follow, between I-495 and I-40 in southeast Raleigh. I brought it up before, but others disagreed with me. I still think it'll happen, but if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. No biggie.

AASHTO's deadline for accepting applications is
September 16. AASHTO's meeting is from November 12-15 in Boston.

http://route.transportation.org/Pages/default.aspx

http://www.aashtoannualmeeting.org/
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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2016, 05:18:35 PM »

Does future 87 really need to duplex with 440 to reach 40? I think that would be unnecessary. Future 87 would hardly be the only two-digit Interstate Highway to terminate at a three-digit Interstate Highway.
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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2016, 06:27:58 PM »

Does future 87 really need to duplex with 440 to reach 40? I think that would be unnecessary. Future 87 would hardly be the only two-digit Interstate Highway to terminate at a three-digit Interstate Highway.

According to an email response that froggie posted a while back, NCDOT saw an opportunity to eliminate what they consider to be a confusing part of the I-40/I-440 junction, where if you're coming in to southeast Raleigh on westbound I-40 approaching the I-40/I-440 junction, I-440 is signed "West" when it actually turns east, then north and west. That response is what leads me to believe that they will decommission that small bit of I-440 and have I-87 replace it, ending at I-40. If that wasn't NCDOT's intention, then they would've simply had I-87 ending at I-440, just like I-495 does now, IMO.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=17910.msg2143874#msg2143874

Quote
The Department will likely replace the 495 section and not continue it as aconcurrent route.  We see opportunities to reduce the length of I-440 and possibly diminish some confusion on the 440 loop.  We have not currently made this decision, but are considering the various alternatives.

If I'm right, I-87 won't be duplexed with that small bit of I-440. It would simply replace it.
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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #46 on: August 09, 2016, 10:12:43 PM »

Honestly, I would make this two separate highways, with 87 only going from Norfolk to Williamston (then southward to Wilmington and beyond). The east-west US 64 section (extendable to Nags Head) I would have numbered as I-46 or I-48.
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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2016, 11:07:29 PM »

Speaking of US 64 in Wake and Nash Counties, I wonder if they'll correct the mathematical error on US 264 in Zebulon.  Here's what I mean:

US 64 at I-440 is exit 419, and that's also the western terminus of US 264.

The split in Zebulon is Exit 436, a difference of 17 miles.

The equivalent ramp from US 264 West to US 64 East is Exit 19...you're two off.
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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #48 on: August 10, 2016, 08:05:27 AM »

Speaking of US 64 in Wake and Nash Counties, I wonder if they'll correct the mathematical error on US 264 in Zebulon.  Here's what I mean:

US 64 at I-440 is exit 419, and that's also the western terminus of US 264.

The split in Zebulon is Exit 436, a difference of 17 miles.

The equivalent ramp from US 264 West to US 64 East is Exit 19...you're two off.

I don't understand why US-264 doesn't just end in Zebulon in the first place. It seems pointless to have US-64/US-264 run concurrent between Zebulon and I-440. I understand why I-840/I-785 will be concurrent in Greensboro and why I-795 will be concurrent with an I-x87 near Wilson if NCDOT decides to upgrade US-264 like Greenville is wanting, but US-64/US-264? Nope, I don't get that one. It's common knowledge that US-64 goes to Raleigh, so I doubt there would be any problems if US-264 was truncated.
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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #49 on: August 10, 2016, 08:50:28 AM »

Quote
I don't understand why US-264 doesn't just end in Zebulon in the first place.

It did before 1997.  I would hazard a guess that eastern NC interests (i.e. Wilson, Greenville, and/or Washington) wanted a single route number between them and Raleigh directly, and were successful in convincing NCDOT and AASHTO to follow suit.
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