Interstate 87 (NC-VA)

[The Ghostbuster]

I'd support making US 1 a southern extension of Interstate 87. I doubt it will happen, though.

[LM117]

I-87 isn't going to South Carolina. SC does not play well with others (if I-20 & I-74 is any indication) and building I-87 in SC would not be easy, if not costly.

I-87 going to Rockingham? Maybe, considering that NCDOT once tried to get US-1 between I-40/440 and Sanford designated as I-140.

I-87 connecting to I-20? Not a chance.

[english si]

I-73 pretty much has south of Rockingham covered - the place to go with hypothetical I-87 'south' of Rockingham is Charlotte.

[HazMatt]

SC isn't going to do anything.  Another option is to use I-42 instead, routing it via the southern portion of 540 (once built), US-1 to Rockingham and US-74 to Charlotte.  An E-W number makes more sense if they go that route.

[ARMOURERERIC]

Someday, NC wants an US  64 freeway from Raleigh to Mocksville, save 42 for that.

[Finrod]

Someday, NC wants an US  64 freeway from Raleigh to Mocksville, save 42 for that.

Making US 64 an expressway would be a useful bypass of Winston-Salem, Greensboro, and Durham for I-40 traffic, and would be a logical westward extension of I-42.  I-36 or I-38 would be the natural numbering for a US 74 expressway from I-26 to Wilmington, as long as the overlap with I-74 wasn't too much.

[bob7374]

AASHTO has approved NCDOT's request to eliminate I-495 and Future I-495 between I-440 and I-95, paving way for I-87 (and Future I-87):
http://route.transportation.org/Documents/USRN%2001-Agenda%20and%20List%20of%20Applications%20SM-2017.pdf

[LM117]

AASHTO has approved NCDOT's request to eliminate I-495 and Future I-495 between I-440 and I-95, paving way for I-87 (and Future I-87):
http://route.transportation.org/Documents/USRN%2001-Agenda%20and%20List%20of%20Applications%20SM-2017.pdf

It also appears that I-440 isn't going anywhere, which means I-87 & I-440 will be concurrent.

[froggie]

Given NCDOT's past precedent, that could easily change...

[orulz]

US 64 west of Apex would be easy to convert to an expressway or freeway but interstate standards might be difficult due to stuff like grades and vertical curvature of hill crests. There would be a lot of closures for scraping and blasting in a bunch of places along that route.

[The Ghostbuster]

Do Interstate 440 and future Interstate 87 really have to be concurrent between Exits 14 and 16?  I wouldn't agree. Then again, it wouldn't be unprecedented. Interstate 84 and Interstate 380 in Pennsylvania are co-designated with one another to a common terminus at Interstate 81, but likely only because Interstate 380 was originally Interstate 81S, then Interstate 81E. Also Interstate 84 was to have continued west of existing 380 to meet 81 in another location. Back to the topic at hand, I believe that an 87/440 duplex is unnecessary.

[LM117]

Not only do I think that a 440/87 concurrency is unnecessary, I'd go a step further and say that I-87 should've ended at I-440 just like I-495 did, but that ship has sailed.

[LM117]

Given NCDOT's past precedent, that could easily change...

True, but if they really wanted to get rid of I-440 anytime soon, it might've been better to decommission it at the same time as I-495. Kill two birds with one stone...or in this case, two I-shields with one AASHTO meeting.

[wdcrft63]

Not only do I think that a 440/87 concurrency is unnecessary, I'd go a step further and say that I-87 should've ended at I-440 just like I-495 did, but that ship has sailed.

Forum members like to be tidy about these things, I know, but drivers in the Raleigh area will want to have the concurrence. I-440 is the Raleigh Beltline; it needs to meet I-40 at both ends. I-87 will take over from US 64 as the route east; it needs to begin at I-40.

[vdeane]

What is a "beltline"?  If it's just some weird term for a beltway, than it needs to overlap with I-40 as well, similar to DC.  Or they could just do the Harrisburg solution an install signs saying "Raleigh Beltline" along the routes without overlaps.  Route names and numbers don't necessarily need to have 1:1 correspondence; see NYC, where they're two completely independent systems.

And yes, I-87 needs to end at I-40.  It's a 2di after all, even though IMO I-495 from I-440 to I-95 was perfectly adequate.

[74/171FAN]

What is a "beltline"?  If it's just some weird term for a beltway, than it needs to overlap with I-40 as well, similar to DC. 

Actually it originally did for awhile but it was removed from the I-40 portion in 2008.  It also had INNER and OUTER designations but is now just EAST-WEST.

My NC knowledge is not well enough to know why they chose Beltline, but at one point even US 70, US 401, and NC 50 (I believe that Adam Prince had something on this on the defunct Gribblenation somewhere) were put on it instead of going through downtown Raleigh and to me it just looked like a convoluted mess.

[Henry]

Now that 42 and 87 are designated, are there any near-term plans for upgrading the two roads to Interstate Standards (and converting all of US 70 into a continuous freeway)?

US 64 east of the US 258 interchange in Tarboro and all the way to US 17 is already at Interstate standards (shoulders, etc.); it was completed after the 1991 ISTEA act designated it a high-priority corridor (#13).  Whether or not that in itself prompted the upgrade of physical standards on that section is a matter of speculation at this point -- but it's "ready to go".  Nevertheless, there's no indication that it will receive advanced signage; most likely it'll have to wait until the remainder of the route from Knightdale to Tarboro is brought up to spec. 

Since US 70 already follows the same route as I-40 west of Durham, a freeway upgrade isn't really necessary.

I wonder if there's any chance that I-87 will be extended in the future south of Raleigh; the most logical place would be along the US 1 corridor.  I've heard that there is serious local opposition to making US 1 an expressway all the way to Rockingham, who knows if that will change if the possibility of it becoming an interstate gets thrown into the mix.

The most logical place for it to go south of there would be down to I-20 at Camden, but since South Carolina can't seem to get I-73 built to Myrtle Beach, the chances of something like that happening would be remote at best.

I'd rather just stop it at Rockingham, and make a complete freeway bypass of I-85 between Henderson and Charlotte (with upgraded portions of US 1 between Henderson and Raleigh and US 74 west of Rockingham to such).

[LM117]

And yes, I-87 needs to end at I-40.  It's a 2di after all, even though IMO I-495 from I-440 to I-95 was perfectly adequate.

I-87 was cooked up to give eastern NC an interstate connection to the Port of Virginia. The "Raleigh-Norfolk" reasoning was basically used as a means to an end. It's already helped spawn Future I-587, linking Greenville to I-95 and Raleigh, and there's a push to have the NC-11/US-13 corridor between US-70/Future I-42 in Kinston and US-64/Future I-87 in Bethel become an interstate. It's already been introduced in Congress once shortly before last year's elections and while it didn't get anywhere, the idea is still alive and well.

https://www.burr.senate.gov/press/releases/burr-tillis-butterfield-jones-introduce-bipartisan-bicameral-legislation-to-improve-eastern-north-carolina-transportation

Raleigh was more than happy to push for it because it linked the city to I-95, and because there's currently little chance of US-1 becoming an interstate between I-540 and I-85 in Henderson.

[Finrod]

... and there's a push to have the NC-11/US-13 corridor between US-70/Future I-42 in Kinston and US-64/Future I-87 in Bethel become an interstate.

If it wasn't for the short distance, this would be the correct spot in the grid for I-97 or I-99.

[hotdogPi]

... and there's a push to have the NC-11/US-13 corridor between US-70/Future I-42 in Kinston and US-64/Future I-87 in Bethel become an interstate.

If it wasn't for the short distance, this would be the correct spot in the grid for I-97 or I-99.

I-97 was never off-grid to begin with.

[LM117]

... and there's a push to have the NC-11/US-13 corridor between US-70/Future I-42 in Kinston and US-64/Future I-87 in Bethel become an interstate.

If it wasn't for the short distance, this would be the correct spot in the grid for I-97 or I-99.

I-97 was never off-grid to begin with.

If the designation happens, it will most likely be another I-x87, since it's purpose is to connect Kinston's Global Transpark and Greenville to Hampton Roads. That's the final leg of the "Quad East" interstate idea they've been pushing since 2013.

[wdcrft63]

What is a "beltline"?  If it's just some weird term for a beltway, than it needs to overlap with I-40 as well, similar to DC.  Or they could just do the Harrisburg solution an install signs saying "Raleigh Beltline" along the routes without overlaps.  Route names and numbers don't necessarily need to have 1:1 correspondence; see NYC, where they're two completely independent systems.

And yes, I-87 needs to end at I-40.  It's a 2di after all, even though IMO I-495 from I-440 to I-95 was perfectly adequate.

The name Raleigh Beltline dates back to the early 1950s; this may be before the term beltway became common. Wikipedia has a few other examples of the term: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beltline

[The Ghostbuster]

The major freeway along the south and west sides of the Madison area (US 12/14/18/151) is known as The Beltline. It's hard to believe today that when the roadway first opened in 1951, it was a two-lane highway with at-grade intersections.

[CanesFan27]

What is a "beltline"?  If it's just some weird term for a beltway, than it needs to overlap with I-40 as well, similar to DC. 

Actually it originally did for awhile but it was removed from the I-40 portion in 2008.  It also had INNER and OUTER designations but is now just EAST-WEST.

My NC knowledge is not well enough to know why they chose Beltline, but at one point even US 70, US 401, and NC 50 (I believe that Adam Prince had something on this on the defunct Gribblenation somewhere) were put on it instead of going through downtown Raleigh and to me it just looked like a convoluted mess.

Here's the archive link:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160413080339/http://www.gribblenation.com/ncpics/raleigh/beltline.html

I haven't migrated this page to Sure, Why Not as there are some photos and other information I have that would expand the feature.

[Beltway]

What is a "beltline"?  If it's just some weird term for a beltway, than it needs to overlap with I-40 as well, similar to DC.  Or they could just do the Harrisburg solution an install signs saying "Raleigh Beltline" along the routes without overlaps.  Route names and numbers don't necessarily need to have 1:1 correspondence; see NYC, where they're two completely independent systems.

The name Raleigh Beltline dates back to the early 1950s; this may be before the term beltway became common. Wikipedia has a few other examples of the term: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beltline

I have wondered about the term "beltline" as well.  Might be an appropriate term for a partial beltway bypass, which was what the Raleigh Beltline was when first built as a northern bypass in the 1950s.  The southern portion was built in the 1980s.

Richmond, VA has the I-195 Beltline Expressway, an official name but one that has been seldom used by the public.  That name came from the depressed Beltline Railroad that I-195 was built around.

"The present location of I-195 was fixed, unknowingly, 81 years before Mr. Volpe's action. The north-south corridor it now occupies was selected by the R.F.& P. R.R. [Richmond, Fredericksburg and Potomac Railroad] in 1888 for its new "James River Branch (Beltline)" which was to handle north-south freight traffic."

"World War I conditions during this period, and drainage problems, hampered the excavation and bridge construction, but the double-tracked, depressed Beltline Railroad was opened simultaneously with the opening of the new Broad Street Station, on January 6, 1919."

http://www.roadstothefuture.com/I195_VA.html