Interstate 87 (NC-VA)

[Beltway]

Aaaaaaargh!  Looks like the misbegotten I-87 is now fact rather than mistake-to-be-corrected!  Well, this just nails it -- 2016 will go down in history as The Year Of Bad Decisions.  I'll leave it to the rest of you to ponder what the others were.

(Alternately: the year of deliberate stupidity!) 

It -is- a stupid decision, as I argued before no Interstate highway is warrented in this corridor in the first place, at least not east of I-95.

[CanesFan27]

Aaaaaaargh!  Looks like the misbegotten I-87 is now fact rather than mistake-to-be-corrected!  Well, this just nails it -- 2016 will go down in history as The Year Of Bad Decisions.  I'll leave it to the rest of you to ponder what the others were.

(Alternately: the year of deliberate stupidity!) 

In fairness, the only folks that care about the decision to number this I-87 reside in this and/or similar forums. 

The east wake community forum I posted this in are complaining about 64 needing widened to Zebulon or that they should spend the money signing the road to fix some local intersection du jour.

[CanesFan27]

Aaaaaaargh!  Looks like the misbegotten I-87 is now fact rather than mistake-to-be-corrected!  Well, this just nails it -- 2016 will go down in history as The Year Of Bad Decisions.  I'll leave it to the rest of you to ponder what the others were.

(Alternately: the year of deliberate stupidity!) 

In fairness, the only folks that care about the decision to number this I-87 reside in this and/or similar forums. 

The east wake community forum I posted this in are complaining about 64 needing widened to Zebulon or that they should spend the money signing the road to fix some local intersection du jour.

Oh and the exit number changes that's the biggest gripe by locals.

[froggie]

Regarding Adam's blog post...

- Based on those sign plans, looks like I-87 and I-440 will be co-signed on that corner of the Beltline.

- Any idea why some of the sign depictions along the Beltline are shaded in yellow?

[21stCenturyRoad]

Great to see that the I-87 signs are finally up
BTW, where is I-587 going to start? Since it's mileage will most likely correspond with US-264, wouldn't it start where US-264 starts at I-440 in order to align with the existing mileage and not make any changes?

[Mapmikey]

- Any idea why some of the sign depictions along the Beltline are shaded in yellow?

Looks like it was only on signs with an I-87 shield - perhaps to highlight which ones are different from current ones in the field (though they missed one from the I-40 WB perspective...)?

[HazMatt]

Great to see that the I-87 signs are finally up
BTW, where is I-587 going to start? Since it's mileage will most likely correspond with US-264, wouldn't it start where US-264 starts at I-440 in order to align with the existing mileage and not make any changes?

You want 587 to duplex with 87 for 20 miles?  I wouldn't put it past NCDOT to request this.

[LM117]

Interstate 87 shields are in the process of being installed on the Knightdale Bypass.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/300176946738649?view=permalink&id=1487186911370974

About time.

[LM117]

Great to see that the I-87 signs are finally up
BTW, where is I-587 going to start? Since it's mileage will most likely correspond with US-264, wouldn't it start where US-264 starts at I-440 in order to align with the existing mileage and not make any changes?

You want 587 to duplex with 87 for 20 miles?  I wouldn't put it past NCDOT to request this.

Please don't tempt them...

[LM117]

The east wake community forum I posted this in are complaining about 64 needing widened to Zebulon

A legit complaint, IMO.

[michealbond]

The east wake community forum I posted this in are complaining about 64 needing widened to Zebulon

A legit complaint, IMO.

Very legit. The Zebulon exit on 64 could use some work as well. Right now, it causes issues when people are getting onto 64 from that exit competing with people trying to get on to the next exit for US 264. with both US highways having future interstate access, I imagine both interchanges will need some work done to make it flow easier.

[LM117]

However, I am still awaiting word from NCDOT and the Local News Outlets about I-87 before I update Wikipedia.

The News & Observer mentioned it. Still nothing from NCDOT's press release page yet.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/traffic/article171521622.html

However, at least now we know why AASHTO rejected NCDOT's request for I-89 in favor of I-87.

AASHTO spokesman Tony Dorsey said the organization's route numbering committee decided that the new North Carolina highway has a better chance of one day connecting to I-87 in New York than to I-89 in New England, and decided the road between Raleigh and Virginia should be I-87.

Like I-87 has a chance of connecting to New York...

[LM117]

BTW, where is I-587 going to start? Since it's mileage will most likely correspond with US-264, wouldn't it start where US-264 starts at I-440 in order to align with the existing mileage and not make any changes?

No. I-587 will begin at the 64/264 split in Zebulon and end at Exit 73 on the western outskirts of Greenville. I still have some hope left that NCDOT will come to their senses and truncate US-264 back to Zebulon.

[LM117]

The east wake community forum I posted this in are complaining about 64 needing widened to Zebulon

A legit complaint, IMO.

Very legit. The Zebulon exit on 64 could use some work as well. Right now, it causes issues when people are getting onto 64 from that exit competing with people trying to get on to the next exit for US 264. with both US highways having future interstate access, I imagine both interchanges will need some work done to make it flow easier.

I noticed that too when I passed through on my way to Wilson last year. Traffic between the Knightdale Bypass and the Zebulon split was pretty heavy. Beyond that, it was smooth sailing.

[CanesFan27]

BTW, where is I-587 going to start? Since it's mileage will most likely correspond with US-264, wouldn't it start where US-264 starts at I-440 in order to align with the existing mileage and not make any changes?

No. I-587 will begin at the 64/264 split in Zebulon and end at Exit 73 on the western outskirts of Greenville. I still have some hope left that NCDOT will come to their senses and truncate US-264 back to Zebulon.

264 was extended to the Beltline because they or it was decided to have a continuous route designation from Raleigh to Greenville.  That's also why you saw so many Greenville auxiliary signs added to overheads at one point.  I have no issue with 264 as it is with the extension to Raleigh.

[CanesFan27]

The east wake community forum I posted this in are complaining about 64 needing widened to Zebulon

A legit complaint, IMO.

Very legit. The Zebulon exit on 64 could use some work as well. Right now, it causes issues when people are getting onto 64 from that exit competing with people trying to get on to the next exit for US 264. with both US highways having future interstate access, I imagine both interchanges will need some work done to make it flow easier.

I noticed that too when I passed through on my way to Wilson last year. Traffic between the Knightdale Bypass and the Zebulon split was pretty heavy. Beyond that, it was smooth sailing.

The state does have plans to widen 64/264 from Wendell to the Zebulon split to 6 lanes. I don't know where it is at on the current STIP. Haven't looked yet. (They also have floated widening the Knightdale Bypass to 8 lanes.)

The congestion occurs heavily at rush hour.  Since I reverse commute I always see the backups and they can be lengthy when a wreck.  Typically wrecks happen at the interchange or somewhere westbound along the downhill grade from lizard lick road to Rolesville Road.

A quick fix for the split at zebulon. Add an exit only auxiliary lane from NC96 to the split. I think the only obstacle may be that they would have to lengthen the overpass that carries Shepherd School Road over the highway. 

[The Nature Boy]

BTW, where is I-587 going to start? Since it's mileage will most likely correspond with US-264, wouldn't it start where US-264 starts at I-440 in order to align with the existing mileage and not make any changes?

No. I-587 will begin at the 64/264 split in Zebulon and end at Exit 73 on the western outskirts of Greenville. I still have some hope left that NCDOT will come to their senses and truncate US-264 back to Zebulon.

264 was extended to the Beltline because they or it was decided to have a continuous route designation from Raleigh to Greenville.  That's also why you saw so many Greenville auxiliary signs added to overheads at one point.  I have no issue with 264 as it is with the extension to Raleigh.

I feel like North Carolina gets too caught up on route numbers, at least more than most states. The average person doesn't care if US 264 ends at the Zebulon junction (it may as well anyway). It would probably be easier for navigational purposes if mileage on US 264 just started at the Zebulon junction.

I always say that if NCDOT could find a reason to sign my parents's driveway though, they would.

[Strider]

Regarding Adam's blog post...

- Based on those sign plans, looks like I-87 and I-440 will be co-signed on that corner of the Beltline.

- Any idea why some of the sign depictions along the Beltline are shaded in yellow?

Just like I mentioned in the past, NCDOT is not going to get rid of I-440 just like many people thought. I live in the state and knows if they plan on doing it, they will say it.

[CanesFan27]

Regarding Adam's blog post...

- Based on those sign plans, looks like I-87 and I-440 will be co-signed on that corner of the Beltline.

- Any idea why some of the sign depictions along the Beltline are shaded in yellow?

Just like I mentioned in the past, NCDOT is not going to get rid of I-440 just like many people thought. I live in the state and knows if they plan on doing it, they will say it.

I also live in this state and have seen numerous examples of the original designation plans changing..oh I don't know something about the Greensboro outer loop comes to mind.

[Strider]

Regarding Adam's blog post...

- Based on those sign plans, looks like I-87 and I-440 will be co-signed on that corner of the Beltline.

- Any idea why some of the sign depictions along the Beltline are shaded in yellow?

Just like I mentioned in the past, NCDOT is not going to get rid of I-440 just like many people thought. I live in the state and knows if they plan on doing it, they will say it.

I also live in this state and have seen numerous examples of the original designation plans changing..oh I don't know something about the Greensboro outer loop comes to mind.

They only changed I-40/I-85/US 421 routing, everything else remains the just as planned ever since.

however, there is never a plan to change I-440 routing, even with I-87 in place.

[The Nature Boy]

It looks like the I-87 shields are up and visible.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/traffic/article171521622.html

[sparker]

However, I am still awaiting word from NCDOT and the Local News Outlets about I-87 before I update Wikipedia.

The News & Observer mentioned it. Still nothing from NCDOT's press release page yet.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/traffic/article171521622.html

However, at least now we know why AASHTO rejected NCDOT's request for I-89 in favor of I-87.

AASHTO spokesman Tony Dorsey said the organization's route numbering committee decided that the new North Carolina highway has a better chance of one day connecting to I-87 in New York than to I-89 in New England, and decided the road between Raleigh and Virginia should be I-87.

Like I-87 has a chance of connecting to New York...

......One bad decision compounded by another.  Seeing that there's more E-W trajectory than N-S here, it should have, by all means, been an unused even number between 46 and 56. 

I always say that if NCDOT could find a reason to sign my parents's driveway though, they would.

At least NCDOT would maintain it!  And you'd have a diamond shield to call your own -- or steal and put up on your wall, then call NCDOT for a (series of) replacement(s)!

[CanesFan27]

However, I am still awaiting word from NCDOT and the Local News Outlets about I-87 before I update Wikipedia.

The News & Observer mentioned it. Still nothing from NCDOT's press release page yet.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/traffic/article171521622.html

However, at least now we know why AASHTO rejected NCDOT's request for I-89 in favor of I-87.

AASHTO spokesman Tony Dorsey said the organization's route numbering committee decided that the new North Carolina highway has a better chance of one day connecting to I-87 in New York than to I-89 in New England, and decided the road between Raleigh and Virginia should be I-87.

Like I-87 has a chance of connecting to New York...

......One bad decision compounded by another.  Seeing that there's more E-W trajectory than N-S here, it should have, by all means, been an unused even number between 46 and 56. 

I always say that if NCDOT could find a reason to sign my parents's driveway though, they would.

At least NCDOT would maintain it!  And you'd have a diamond shield to call your own -- or steal and put up on your wall, then call NCDOT for a (series of) replacement(s)!

What everyone is forgetting is that NCDOT originally petitioned the FHWA administratively for I-44 - they obviously rejected it but could have given guidance on route numbering. I would suspect that the initial N/S 89 proposal came from that guidance.

[Takumi]

However, I am still awaiting word from NCDOT and the Local News Outlets about I-87 before I update Wikipedia.

The News & Observer mentioned it. Still nothing from NCDOT's press release page yet.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/traffic/article171521622.html

However, at least now we know why AASHTO rejected NCDOT's request for I-89 in favor of I-87.

AASHTO spokesman Tony Dorsey said the organization's route numbering committee decided that the new North Carolina highway has a better chance of one day connecting to I-87 in New York than to I-89 in New England, and decided the road between Raleigh and Virginia should be I-87.

Like I-87 has a chance of connecting to New York...

......One bad decision compounded by another.  Seeing that there's more E-W trajectory than N-S here, it should have, by all means, been an unused even number between 46 and 56. 

I always say that if NCDOT could find a reason to sign my parents's driveway though, they would.

At least NCDOT would maintain it!  And you'd have a diamond shield to call your own -- or steal and put up on your wall, then call NCDOT for a (series of) replacement(s)!

Should have been I-46. VA and NC's 46s are one two-state route, so easier renumbering.

[sparker]

However, I am still awaiting word from NCDOT and the Local News Outlets about I-87 before I update Wikipedia.

The News & Observer mentioned it. Still nothing from NCDOT's press release page yet.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/traffic/article171521622.html

However, at least now we know why AASHTO rejected NCDOT's request for I-89 in favor of I-87.

AASHTO spokesman Tony Dorsey said the organization's route numbering committee decided that the new North Carolina highway has a better chance of one day connecting to I-87 in New York than to I-89 in New England, and decided the road between Raleigh and Virginia should be I-87.

Like I-87 has a chance of connecting to New York...

......One bad decision compounded by another.  Seeing that there's more E-W trajectory than N-S here, it should have, by all means, been an unused even number between 46 and 56. 

I always say that if NCDOT could find a reason to sign my parents's driveway though, they would.

At least NCDOT would maintain it!  And you'd have a diamond shield to call your own -- or steal and put up on your wall, then call NCDOT for a (series of) replacement(s)!

What everyone is forgetting is that NCDOT originally petitioned the FHWA administratively for I-44 - they obviously rejected it but could have given guidance on route numbering. I would suspect that the initial N/S 89 proposal came from that guidance.

IIRC, NCDOT's reasoning behind asking for an odd rather than even designation was conflict with nearby state routes; all the available even numbers, after 44 was eliminated, were duplicated by nearby state highways (46, 48, 54, 56), after 52 & 58 were set aside because of U.S. duplication in either NC or VA.  What is irrational about the process is that AASHTO summarily threw out the state highway duplication rationale -- but kept the shift to the odd set of numbers intact! -- which, even if such a decision had a basis in rational thought, might have yielded "I-97" rather than "I-87" as the most appropriate odd designation -- as there's more of a chance of connecting the two 97's than any other choice -- and most of the corridor alignment lies east of I-95! 

I guess I'm just not a fan of irrational processes, be they deliberate or simply misguided
(or, as I've previously surmised, the result of an open bar at a SCOURN meeting!).