Interstate 87 (NC-VA)

[NJRoadfan]

I-87 appears to already be signed east of I-540. There is a lone I-87 WEST reassurance marker about 2 exits east of 540. Its getting pretty silly out there with the added I-87 markers next to the old signs that still have I-495 on them too.

[sparker]

I-87 appears to already be signed east of I-540. There is a lone I-87 WEST reassurance marker about 2 exits east of 540. Its getting pretty silly out there with the added I-87 markers next to the old signs that still have I-495 on them too.

So they're adding I-87 shields without removing the I-495 ones?  Sounds like confusion on the part of NCDOT's sign crew -- or the marching orders they were given.  Interesting that it seems the banners will indicate "east" and "west" for I-87; I wonder if the directions will change to N-S north of Williamston when the corridor shifts to US 17?  Unless someone has access to signage plans (in reality it might be way too soon for those to have been formulated), we'll probably not know for several years, unless it's planned to sign the Elizabeth City bypass before the rest of the US 17 portion is completed.  Got a question for NC & vicinity posters:  Were any I-495 shields added to BGS's along us 64 in the last few years, or was that signage limited to freestanding reassurance shields?   

[bob7374]

I-87 appears to already be signed east of I-540. There is a lone I-87 WEST reassurance marker about 2 exits east of 540. Its getting pretty silly out there with the added I-87 markers next to the old signs that still have I-495 on them too.

So they're adding I-87 shields without removing the I-495 ones?  Sounds like confusion on the part of NCDOT's sign crew -- or the marching orders they were given.  Interesting that it seems the banners will indicate "east" and "west" for I-87; I wonder if the directions will change to N-S north of Williamston when the corridor shifts to US 17?  Unless someone has access to signage plans (in reality it might be way too soon for those to have been formulated), we'll probably not know for several years, unless it's planned to sign the Elizabeth City bypass before the rest of the US 17 portion is completed.  Got a question for NC & vicinity posters:  Were any I-495 shields added to BGS's along us 64 in the last few years, or was that signage limited to freestanding reassurance shields?   

I-495 shields were added to BGSs on I-440 and I-540 for the Knightdale Bypass in 2015:


As for I-87 'West' if it is truly marked as that then it's probably an error, other I-87 reassurance markers seen on US 64/264 are marked North/South:

[roadman65]

What overload on the control destinations.  I am sure that the new signs will feature solely Rocky Mount.


Anyway, Map Source INC have Future I-87 listed pretty good all the way along both US 64 and US 17 up to the VA Border.

[LM117]

What overload on the control destinations.  I am sure that the new signs will feature solely Rocky Mount.

They won't. The control cities will remain the same. Sign plans can be seen here:

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2017/09/goodbye-interstate-495-hello-interstate.html?m=1

Wilson and Greenville need to remain as control cities anyway since US-264 goes to those cities while I-87/US-64 does not. Wilson is a junction of I-95/I-795 and Greenville is the largest city in eastern NC with population over 90,000 and serves as the hub of the region.

If there is to be a change in control cities along the I-87 corridor, I would use Norfolk alongside Rocky Mount instead of Nashville at the split in Zebulon.

[sparker]

What overload on the control destinations.  I am sure that the new signs will feature solely Rocky Mount.

They won't. The control cities will remain the same. Sign plans can be seen here:

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2017/09/goodbye-interstate-495-hello-interstate.html?m=1

Wilson and Greenville need to remain as control cities anyway since US-264 goes to those cities while I-87/US-64 does not. Wilson is a junction of I-95/I-795 and Greenville is the largest city in eastern NC with population over 90,000 and serves as the hub of the region.

If there is to be a change in control cities along the I-87 corridor, I would use Norfolk alongside Rocky Mount instead of Nashville at the split in Zebulon.

As long as "VA" is specified along with a control city in the other state, that would be appropriate.  Also "Hampton Roads, VA" might be an alternative, as it encompasses all the major cities in that metro area.

[CanesFan27]

I-87 appears to already be signed east of I-540. There is a lone I-87 WEST reassurance marker about 2 exits east of 540. Its getting pretty silly out there with the added I-87 markers next to the old signs that still have I-495 on them too.

So they're adding I-87 shields without removing the I-495 ones?  Sounds like confusion on the part of NCDOT's sign crew -- or the marching orders they were given.  Interesting that it seems the banners will indicate "east" and "west" for I-87; I wonder if the directions will change to N-S north of Williamston when the corridor shifts to US 17?  Unless someone has access to signage plans (in reality it might be way too soon for those to have been formulated), we'll probably not know for several years, unless it's planned to sign the Elizabeth City bypass before the rest of the US 17 portion is completed.  Got a question for NC & vicinity posters:  Were any I-495 shields added to BGS's along us 64 in the last few years, or was that signage limited to freestanding reassurance shields?   

I-495 shields were added to BGSs on I-440 and I-540 for the Knightdale Bypass in 2015:


As for I-87 'West' if it is truly marked as that then it's probably an error, other I-87 reassurance markers seen on US 64/264 are marked North/South:

Didn't see any West banners for I-87 when i was running errands today. The stand alone sign reads I-87 South and is between the Wendell Falls Parkway and Smithfield Road.

[roadman65]

What overload on the control destinations.  I am sure that the new signs will feature solely Rocky Mount.

They won't. The control cities will remain the same. Sign plans can be seen here:

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2017/09/goodbye-interstate-495-hello-interstate.html?m=1

Wilson and Greenville need to remain as control cities anyway since US-264 goes to those cities while I-87/US-64 does not. Wilson is a junction of I-95/I-795 and Greenville is the largest city in eastern NC with population over 90,000 and serves as the hub of the region.

If there is to be a change in control cities along the I-87 corridor, I would use Norfolk alongside Rocky Mount instead of Nashville at the split in Zebulon.

Norfolk is years away.  Heck we do not even know if VDOT will build I-87 in their state at this point.  At most it will be a NC thing.

The three destination thing is too much.  Though I got used to it in NJ growing up, secondary signs would work will keeping maybe Rocky Mount and Wilson as primary for this.  Or nix Wilson and just use Rocky Mount and Greenville.

[sparker]

What overload on the control destinations.  I am sure that the new signs will feature solely Rocky Mount.

They won't. The control cities will remain the same. Sign plans can be seen here:

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2017/09/goodbye-interstate-495-hello-interstate.html?m=1

Wilson and Greenville need to remain as control cities anyway since US-264 goes to those cities while I-87/US-64 does not. Wilson is a junction of I-95/I-795 and Greenville is the largest city in eastern NC with population over 90,000 and serves as the hub of the region.

If there is to be a change in control cities along the I-87 corridor, I would use Norfolk alongside Rocky Mount instead of Nashville at the split in Zebulon.

Norfolk is years away.  Heck we do not even know if VDOT will build I-87 in their state at this point.  At most it will be a NC thing.

The three destination thing is too much.  Though I got used to it in NJ growing up, secondary signs would work will keeping maybe Rocky Mount and Wilson as primary for this.  Or nix Wilson and just use Rocky Mount and Greenville.

EB (I-87 NB) past the US 264 split; just do a dual-control-city series:  Rocky Mount/Tarboro, then Tarboro/Williamston, followed by Williamston/Elizabeth City, Elizabeth City/Hampton Roads (or one of the individual cities within), and simply Hampton Roads to the state line.  To address the long-distance city/metro area, place mileage BGS's including the final destination along the freeway on a regular basis. 

[LM117]

What overload on the control destinations.  I am sure that the new signs will feature solely Rocky Mount.

They won't. The control cities will remain the same. Sign plans can be seen here:

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2017/09/goodbye-interstate-495-hello-interstate.html?m=1

Wilson and Greenville need to remain as control cities anyway since US-264 goes to those cities while I-87/US-64 does not. Wilson is a junction of I-95/I-795 and Greenville is the largest city in eastern NC with population over 90,000 and serves as the hub of the region.

If there is to be a change in control cities along the I-87 corridor, I would use Norfolk alongside Rocky Mount instead of Nashville at the split in Zebulon.

Norfolk is years away.  Heck we do not even know if VDOT will build I-87 in their state at this point.  At most it will be a NC thing.

That didn't stop NCDOT from using Martinsville as a control city for I-73 northbound in Greensboro and Virginia has no intention of building I-73 at all.

On the other hand, VDOT apparently showed a slight interest in I-87, considering that they began their study of I-87 and has been in talks with NCDOT over I-87's routing in Chesapeake. VA Secretary of Transportation Aubrey Lane even threw his two cents in and showed interest in using VA-168. Hampton Roads has more political muscle and their own tax authority. Southwest VA has neither of those advantages when it comes to I-73 (or anything else in general for that matter). That being said, I agree that I-87 is many years away and there are more important issues to deal with at the moment.

I don't think the control cities should be changed right now, but once US-64 is upgraded and I-87 shields pop up at least as far as Williamston and the heavy work begins on US-17, then change it.

[froggie]

Hampton Roads has more political muscle and their own tax authority.

Don't look for much from this, especially when they need to figure out a way to pay for HRBT widening and either the 3rd Crossing or MMBT widening...

[plain]

^Not to mention the widening of the High Rise Bridge & approaches. Yeah, that area already has enough on its plate as it is.

[Strider]

What overload on the control destinations.  I am sure that the new signs will feature solely Rocky Mount.

They won't. The control cities will remain the same. Sign plans can be seen here:

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2017/09/goodbye-interstate-495-hello-interstate.html?m=1

Wilson and Greenville need to remain as control cities anyway since US-264 goes to those cities while I-87/US-64 does not. Wilson is a junction of I-95/I-795 and Greenville is the largest city in eastern NC with population over 90,000 and serves as the hub of the region.

If there is to be a change in control cities along the I-87 corridor, I would use Norfolk alongside Rocky Mount instead of Nashville at the split in Zebulon.

Norfolk is years away.  Heck we do not even know if VDOT will build I-87 in their state at this point.  At most it will be a NC thing.

That didn't stop NCDOT from using Martinsville as a control city for I-73 northbound in Greensboro and Virginia has no intention of building I-73 at all.

On the other hand, VDOT apparently showed a slight interest in I-87, considering that they began their study of I-87 and has been in talks with NCDOT over I-87's routing in Chesapeake. VA Secretary of Transportation Aubrey Lane even threw his two cents in and showed interest in using VA-168. Hampton Roads has more political muscle and their own tax authority. Southwest VA has neither of those advantages when it comes to I-73 (or anything else in general for that matter). That being said, I agree that I-87 is many years away and there are more important issues to deal with at the moment.

I don't think the control cities should be changed right now, but once US-64 is upgraded and I-87 shields pop up at least as far as Williamston and the heavy work begins on US-17, then change it.

NCDOT put up Martinsville on I-73 northbound as their control city going northbound because it make sense. I-73 North currently (temporarily) ends at NC 68/US 220 north partial interchange and taking US 220 North takes you to Martinsville. It is signed like that to divert long distance traffic OFF US 220 (along I-40, US 29, Wendover, Battleground) through Greensboro.

However, speaking as of VA has no interest in building I-73.... that is incorrect. the GA did in fact passed the I-73 Bill proposed by Sen. Stanley last February, however their catch is this: the I-73 bill MUST be passed once again by the GA sometime in 2018 for it to remain in the plans. Therefore there IS some interest in Virginia.

I-87 in Virginia might as well get built before I-73 does in Virginia.

[sparker]

It's entirely possible that the NC-bound I-87 corridor will functionally end at the NC/VA state line and empty out onto US 17, which currently is a combination expressway and (recently) upgraded freeway -- and this situation may last years if not decades until the complications endemic to VA's commonwealth status are resolved in order to plan and deploy I-87 up to I-64.  At that point we'll all see if the NC segment can supply sufficient traffic -- especially of the commercial variety -- to warrant and prompt completion of the corridor in VA.   

[LM117]

However, speaking as of VA has no interest in building I-73.... that is incorrect. the GA did in fact passed the I-73 Bill proposed by Sen. Stanley last February, however their catch is this: the I-73 bill MUST be passed once again by the GA sometime in 2018 for it to remain in the plans. Therefore there IS some interest in Virginia.

That bill was nothing but a fluff piece to pacify SW VA before the elections. The fact that it has to be passed again next year proves what a joke it was. If they were really serious about it, they wouldn't have added that stipulation. The bottom line is that SW VA simply cannot compete with the likes of NOVA, Hampton Roads or even Richmond. Bill Stanley is just polishing brass on the Titanic at this point.

I do agree that I-87 will be built before I-73 reaches Martinsville.

[Beltway]

However, speaking as of VA has no interest in building I-73.... that is incorrect. the GA did in fact passed the I-73 Bill proposed by Sen. Stanley last February, however their catch is this: the I-73 bill MUST be passed once again by the GA sometime in 2018 for it to remain in the plans. Therefore there IS some interest in Virginia.

That bill was nothing but a fluff piece to pacify SW VA before the elections. The fact that it has to be passed again next year proves what a joke it was. If they were really serious about it, they wouldn't have added that stipulation. The bottom line is that SW VA simply cannot compete with the likes of NOVA, Hampton Roads or even Richmond. Bill Stanley is just polishing brass on the Titanic at this point.

How many times do I have to mention that while I-73 between NC and I-81 has a completed NEPA EIS process, it is a $4 billion project and the existing US-220 is a very capable 4-lane highway?  That sum exceeds any project yet built in the state.

[Strider]

However, speaking as of VA has no interest in building I-73.... that is incorrect. the GA did in fact passed the I-73 Bill proposed by Sen. Stanley last February, however their catch is this: the I-73 bill MUST be passed once again by the GA sometime in 2018 for it to remain in the plans. Therefore there IS some interest in Virginia.

That bill was nothing but a fluff piece to pacify SW VA before the elections. The fact that it has to be passed again next year proves what a joke it was. If they were really serious about it, they wouldn't have added that stipulation. The bottom line is that SW VA simply cannot compete with the likes of NOVA, Hampton Roads or even Richmond. Bill Stanley is just polishing brass on the Titanic at this point.

I do agree that I-87 will be built before I-73 reaches Martinsville.

Nah. the GA is a joke. It is very sad that one part of the state is being ignored while attending others. favorism stinks.

[Beltway]

Nah. the GA is a joke. It is very sad that one part of the state is being ignored while attending others. favorism stinks.

Vomit stinks, and it curves, and it makes a sickening sound when it hits the floor.

[Mapmikey]

However, speaking as of VA has no interest in building I-73.... that is incorrect. the GA did in fact passed the I-73 Bill proposed by Sen. Stanley last February, however their catch is this: the I-73 bill MUST be passed once again by the GA sometime in 2018 for it to remain in the plans. Therefore there IS some interest in Virginia.

That bill was nothing but a fluff piece to pacify SW VA before the elections. The fact that it has to be passed again next year proves what a joke it was. If they were really serious about it, they wouldn't have added that stipulation. The bottom line is that SW VA simply cannot compete with the likes of NOVA, Hampton Roads or even Richmond. Bill Stanley is just polishing brass on the Titanic at this point.

I do agree that I-87 will be built before I-73 reaches Martinsville.

Nah. the GA is a joke. It is very sad that one part of the state is being ignored while attending others. favorism stinks.

The billion $ projects US 121 and US 58 say hello...

And the occasional reminder that NoVA and Hampton Roads collect well over $100M per year in taxes that VDOT must give right back to them outside of their normal district allocations.  Plus some jurisdictions like Fairfax County also put up substantial sums of their own money for transportation projects as well.

[LM117]

However, speaking as of VA has no interest in building I-73.... that is incorrect. the GA did in fact passed the I-73 Bill proposed by Sen. Stanley last February, however their catch is this: the I-73 bill MUST be passed once again by the GA sometime in 2018 for it to remain in the plans. Therefore there IS some interest in Virginia.

That bill was nothing but a fluff piece to pacify SW VA before the elections. The fact that it has to be passed again next year proves what a joke it was. If they were really serious about it, they wouldn't have added that stipulation. The bottom line is that SW VA simply cannot compete with the likes of NOVA, Hampton Roads or even Richmond. Bill Stanley is just polishing brass on the Titanic at this point.

How many times do I have to mention that while I-73 between NC and I-81 has a completed NEPA EIS process, it is a $4 billion project and the existing US-220 is a very capable 4-lane highway?  That sum exceeds any project yet built in the state.

That doesn't mean that it can't be broken down and built into sections as funding is available the way NC does their projects. Look at I-73 in NC. The entire corridor wasn't funded all at once (some still isn't) and yet they still made significant progress on it. Why VA acts like it has to either build the entire stretch all at once or not turn dirt period is beyond me.

As for US-220, it may be capable between Martinsville and Rocky Mount but I disagree that it's capable north of there, especially once you get closer to Roanoke.

[LM117]

The billion $ projects US 121 say hello...

Complete waste of money, IMO. I can think of several projects in SW VA that the money is better spent on. Widening I-81, finishing the US-29 Lynchburg Bypass, I-73, actually building a US-460/N. Main St interchange in Blacksburg instead of taking the cheap way out...

[Mapmikey]

The billion $ projects US 121 say hello...

Complete waste of money, IMO. I can think of several projects in SW VA that the money is better spent on. Widening I-81, finishing the US-29 Lynchburg Bypass, I-73, actually building a US-460/N. Main St interchange in Blacksburg instead of taking the cheap way out...

I agree with this.  VDOT's own study says West Virginia primarily benefits from this project.  VA 83 between Pound and Haysi has already been improved.  Some spot improvements between Haysi and Grundy are warranted.

A better gauge to see if SW Virginia is really getting the shaft might be if they really rebuild US 58 between Damascus and Volney (or at the very least widen VA 16 from Volney to Marion as a cheap-out).

I did find a study from 1988-95 that actually looked at how districts did (wish the data continued to the modern day).  The question they answered was how much money did the districts get back relative to what they put in.  Only one district got way more back than they put in (Bristol).  The districts that did worst were Salem, Lynchburg, and Richmond.

[Beltway]

How many times do I have to mention that while I-73 between NC and I-81 has a completed NEPA EIS process, it is a $4 billion project and the existing US-220 is a very capable 4-lane highway?  That sum exceeds any project yet built in the state.

That doesn't mean that it can't be broken down and built into sections as funding is available the way NC does their projects. Look at I-73 in NC. The entire corridor wasn't funded all at once (some still isn't) and yet they still made significant progress on it. Why VA acts like it has to either build the entire stretch all at once or not turn dirt period is beyond me.
As for US-220, it may be capable between Martinsville and Rocky Mount but I disagree that it's capable north of there, especially once you get closer to Roanoke.

It is capable enough that it greatly reduces the incentive to build a new Interstate highway to bypass it (let alone one that would cost $4 billion).  The 2 mile section just south of the end of the Southwest Expressway is the only section that is really in need at this point.  Based on the route and its interchanges, I can't see more than 3 or 4 logical segments of independent utility, so that is still billion dollar chunks.

NC had long distances where US-220 was only 2 lanes wide, including the NC-68 bypass that was the preferred route for US-220 traffic to bypass Greensboro, that only now in 2017 is finally being bypassed with a 4-lane highway.

[VTGoose]

That doesn't mean that it can't be broken down and built into sections as funding is available the way NC does their projects.

As for US-220, it may be capable between Martinsville and Rocky Mount but I disagree that it's capable north of there, especially once you get closer to Roanoke.

What sections would/could be built? The proposed route for I-73 has pretty much been a new interstate on a new right of way (which is where a lot of the cost -- and resistance -- comes from). There are several parts of U.S. 220 that could be improved to reduce some bad curves and some grades but that wouldn't create an interstate. Fixing the section between Rocky Mount and Roanoke is a whole 'nother mess that will be expensive to fix.

Bruce in Blacksburg

[Beltway]

What sections would/could be built? The proposed route for I-73 has pretty much been a new interstate on a new right of way (which is where a lot of the cost -- and resistance -- comes from). There are several parts of U.S. 220 that could be improved to reduce some bad curves and some grades but that wouldn't create an interstate. Fixing the section between Rocky Mount and Roanoke is a whole 'nother mess that will be expensive to fix.
Bruce in Blacksburg

Provision of full paved shoulders, long left-turn and right-turn lanes, access management improvements, and selected spot-reconstructions, are some of the basic but helpful improvements that could be performed, and for maybe 1 or 2% of the cost of the new Interstate highway.