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Interstate 87 (NC-VA)

Started by LM117, July 14, 2016, 12:29:05 PM

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sprjus4

Quote from: Dirt Roads on October 01, 2020, 10:43:53 AM
it certainly made financial sense for NCDOT to focus on a much shorter corridor between I-95 and Suffolk.
I-95 to Suffolk?


The Ghostbuster

Although this is very unlikely, is it possible that the existing US 64 freeway between Pineridge and Columbia could be upgraded and extended westward to existing US 13/17/64 in Williamston, and thus become another 3di of Interstate 87?

sparker

Quote from: Dirt Roads on October 01, 2020, 10:43:53 AM
Moved from the I-587 thread:
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 01, 2020, 12:07:45 AM
I-87 fits within the grid for a north-south route.
Quote from: sparker on October 01, 2020, 02:42:40 AM
But.  It.  Isn't. A. North. South. Route., SCOURN and NCDOT notwithstanding.  <rant snipped>

I understand the argument here, but there is a big problem with our national definition of "route". 

We have one problem that FHWA has overly strict standards for the Interstate Highway System, and another problem that AASHTO controls a political game to approve route numbers (which apparently NCDOT is gaining more political weight).  But there is also a local component, ranging from NIMBY to land development to traffic congestion.  One obvious local issue that drive corridor development in North Carolina is connectivity to the State Legislative Complex in Raleigh (many other states spend highway dollars for this purpose, it just seems like North Carolina has a inordinate number of limited access roads spurring out from Raleigh in all directions).  There is also the hidden impact of shorter overlapping transportation corridors.  Quite frankly, the current role of the Interstate Highway System does not adequately address the most important transportation needs (and you could make the argument that it is not supposed to).

North-South argument:  It is my understanding that NCDOT wanted this "route" to start at Sanford, which AASHTO wisely judged to not be significant enough to warrant a 2DI.  In reality, this is part of a much longer transportation corridor that connects Columbia SC to Raleigh to the Tidewater area, one that I have utilized on many occasion (more than 30 years ago).  It doesn't get much usage (and likewise, not so much development) because the transportation corridor has many sections of slower two-lane roads comprised of several generally parallel routes.  Logically, this transportation corridor starts further west along I-20 (but I doubt there is any significant traffic).

East-West argument:  If North Carolina really wanted a 2DI route to Sanford and beyond, NCDOT could have made a more logical proposal to have the route start at Charlotte and go around Rockingham and through the Sandhills.  (Break loose all of the Charlotte to Wilmington comments).  But since economic development was the primary issue for I-87, it certainly made financial sense for NCDOT to focus on a much shorter corridor between I-95 and Suffolk.  So we get the north-south route designation that North Carolina originally wanted over the initial build east-west corridor that NCDOT could afford.  But if the freeway never gets extended beyond the Sandhills, the north-south number is wasted on this east-west segment.





One needs to peruse the series of back-and-forth arguments that characterized the exchange between AASHTO/SCOURN and NCDOT back in early 2016 to see how the north-south versus east-west corridor characterization evolved/devolved.  Part of the problem was that NCDOT was submitting two corridors simultaneously for consideration at SCOURN's spring meeting that year -- adding an Interstate designation to existing (1991/ISTEA) high-priority corridor #13 between Raleigh and Hampton Roads, and writing and designating an entirely new HPC along US 70 from I-40 to Morehead City as a Panamax-related enhancement of port access there.  Both were originally considered E-W corridors; HPC #13, traversing 2 states, was limited as to numbers due to conflict with US routes in either/both states; of the available pool between 40 and 64, not counting the existing I-44, the numbers 48, 50, 52, 58, and 60 conflicted with numbers in VA and partially NC.  That left 42, 46, 54, 56, and 62 available.  However, someone connected to NCDOT (likely a state legislator or an aide) complained that since NCDOT has a non-duplication rule, that would require renumbering of any state route whose number was chosen for either corridor -- and many rural addresses on state highways reference the route number for postal addresses and would have to be changed if the state highway number was changed.  Since all the available even numbers (with the exception of 46, a MSR with only a few miles in NC before crossing into VA) were current NC state routes of significant length, some actually intersecting the corridors at issue, NCDOT took it upon themselves to cobble up alternate numbers.  The in-state corridor along US 70 was originally submitted as I-50 in a gesture of grandeur for a 120-mile corridor before it was realized that there was a long NC 50; they quickly resubmitted it as I-36 (no NC route bearing that number) even though it was technically "out of grid", rationalizing that the I-40 portion it departed from was largely N-S between Wilmington and Raleigh.  HPC #13 continued to be problematic, so NCDOT decided to go for a N-S number -- again with a spurious rationalization that if I-85 could be considered N-S even though largely E-W in the state, that rationale could be applied to the new corridor as well.  Apparently VA's attitude toward their 18 or so miles was "whatever".  So they submitted a 2nd I-89 as the selection, as they elected to ignore their non-duplication rule since NC 89 was well away in the western portion of the state.  AASHTO's SCOURN took these applications to their meeting in a snowy Des Moines in April 2016; they summarily decided to reject the I-36 designation for US 70 out of hand due to its out-of-grid status -- but they also summarily rejected the state's argument regarding state route duplication, considering that Interstate designations take precedent regardless of in-state circumstances.  But for some odd reason (I've long suspected a combination of tired delegates and an open bar in the meetingplace hotel) they accepted the N-S rationale, although that would have dictated a route duplication of some sort (all odd numbers above 67 being taken) -- but they substituted I-87 for I-89 with the reason given that the N-S portion in far NE NC and VA was closer longitudinally to the original NY I-87 than I-89.  I also suspect that number was selected to "tweak" NCDOT's nose a bit as a slightly punitive measure (NC 87 is a prominent mid-state artery) for wasting their time with the non-state-duplicative assertion.  And at the last minute they also "subbed in" I-42 for the rejected I-36 -- again, likely a bit of a "tweak", as NC 42 actually crosses the I-42/US 70 corridor. 

IMO, the obvious and rational move regarding HPC #13 would have been to reject all of NCDOT's rationalizations, look at a regional map showing the states' route networks, and designate I-46 over that corridor, since VA seemed to have little or no interest in the designation choice (and most of the MSR 46 mileage was in that state).  Maybe I simply expect too much in the way of thoughtful analysis on the part of those tasked with making decisions that affect the driving public, but SCOURN certainly seemed to drop the ball in this case.  At least in a historical sense they didn't make the worst decision of 2016!     

architect77

 "North Carolina has a inordinate number of limited access roads spurring out from Raleigh in all directions"

Let's see.
started with none in the 1950s.

Then the US1 Bypass (The Beltline from Cary to Capital Blvd0 was built on the NW side of Raleigh which didn't extend much beyond Cameron Village at the time.

In the 1980s I-40 was extended and it ended on what we called Wade Ave at the Beltline. In the late 80's it was built on Raleigh's Southside and finally connected with the US1 Bypass to form a piece-meal loop like it still is today.

I-40 finally finished to Wilmington but I-40 was never about Raleigh or its commuters, but rather for Wilmington and to finish the almost transcontinental distance.

US64 was the only road for all points East from Raleigh and in the 80s was a traffic nightmare, backed up for sometimes to almost I-95 because the business-lined  road in Raleigh was all there was.

US264 was a much needed improvement that came in the 90s.

US1 through Cary was improved to please the Yankees who began arriving in the 80s.

The Clayton Bypass and toll 540 were for the new residents to Southern Wake and Johnston.

I agree it could appear on the surface that now there is a lot of focus on limited-access roads around Raleigh.

But after rejecting i-95 coming through Raleigh it remained and still remains away from a truly major interstate corridor, possibly preventing more seedy neighborhods from forming and bad stuff flowing in nd out since the interstate system was built.

There were no big vital limited access highways near Raleigh.  US1 wasn't 4-lanes to Henderson until the 80s also.

Y'all's suggestions for i-87 sound like you want to build an uneeded interstste for the sake of numbering it.

Rockingham and the area next to the SC border is dead, as it's not part of the central NC hum of activity.

If anything, 49/64 to Charlotte is the important corridor to spend on. it's so much shorter and quicker than I-85's arc through the urban crescent.

I-87 being posted along a meandering route through Eastern NC ain't gonna help anyone travel faster from Raleigh to Norfolk nor will it spur economic activity. Total waste of effort.

Dirt Roads

Quote from: Dirt Roads on October 01, 2020, 10:43:53 AM
One obvious local issue that drive corridor development in North Carolina is connectivity to the State Legislative Complex in Raleigh (many other states spend highway dollars for this purpose, it just seems like North Carolina has a inordinate number of limited access roads spurring out from Raleigh in all directions). 

Quote from: architect77 on October 03, 2020, 08:46:58 PM
In the 1980s I-40 was extended and it ended on what we called Wade Ave at the Beltline. In the late 80's it was built on Raleigh's Southside and finally connected with the US1 Bypass to form a piece-meal loop like it still is today.

I-40 finally finished to Wilmington but I-40 was never about Raleigh or its commuters, but rather for Wilmington and to finish the almost transcontinental distance.

I wasn't considering Interstate routes, but since I-40 to Wilmington wasn't part of the original system I probably should have included it.  Westward, I was thinking about the Durham Freeway.

Quote from: architect77 on October 03, 2020, 08:46:58 PM
I agree it could appear on the surface that now there is a lot of focus on limited-access roads around Raleigh.

Wasn't try to bash Raleigh.  Most states have had a goal of connecting as many distant towns/cities to their state capitals.  From this perspective, I was also including US-421 from I-40 to North Wilkesboro as spiraling out of Raleigh (similar to way I-985 spirals out of Atlanta to Gainesville).

Quote from: architect77 on October 03, 2020, 08:46:58 PM
I-87 being posted along a meandering route through Eastern NC ain't gonna help anyone travel faster from Raleigh to Norfolk nor will it spur economic activity. Total waste of effort.

I've had Raleigh-Norfolk on my list of missing links since the 1980's.  But it is indicative of a bigger problem, that there is no governmental incentive to build out traffic corridors unless it meets Interstate standards.  The network of Appalachian Development Highway System is an exception, where a separate agency pushes the funding towards a less expensive type of highway.  Seems to me that we need one or two new highway banners: one to designate partially limited access highways (step down from the Interstate system); and perhaps another to designate an improved highway (step up from the U.S. Highway system). 

All that being said, I would certainly agree that the traffic between Raleigh and Suffolk could be adequately served by a higher-speed route that is not up to Interstate standards.  Right now, I use three different routes:  Southern Tidewater using US-158//NC-35/VA-35//US-58; Western Tidewater using I-95//VA-40//US-460; and the Virginia Peninsula using I-85//I-295//I-64.  A shorter route would eliminate these alternatives in most situations.

sprjus4

#1580
Quote from: Dirt Roads on October 04, 2020, 12:17:13 AM
I've had Raleigh-Norfolk on my list of missing links since the 1980's.  But it is indicative of a bigger problem, that there is no governmental incentive to build out traffic corridors unless it meets Interstate standards.
An interstate highway between Norfolk and Raleigh would satisfy a major missing link between the Hampton Roads metro and I-95 South, and thereby all of the major population centers from North Carolina south to Florida, which still isn't served by a freeway corridor. HPC #13 was planned in the 1990s and the vast majority of the 180 mile corridor is already built out to freeway standards, about 130 miles exactly, with only about 50 miles of arterial segment remaining. Of the 50 left, around 14 miles is mostly limited access with minor at-grade intersections, that including the segment from Virginia state line to Elizabeth City bypass, and the segment through the Roanoke River wetlands.

Since 1990, around 60 miles of freeway have been constructed on the corridor, 30 on US-64 between Tarboro and Williamston, and 30 on US-17 along 3 bypasses. US-64 west of Tarboro was already full freeway since the late 1970s, with the exception of the Knightdale Bypass constructed around 2006. There is certainly merit to upgrade / complete the remaining 50 miles of the corridor, and to provide an unobstructed, 70 mph highway between Raleigh, I-95, and Hampton Roads.

US-17 was largely two lanes between Norfolk and Williamston until the early 2000s. US-17 between the Virginia state line and Elizabeth city was widened / relocated in the 1980s, Elizabeth City to Windsor widened in the 1990s and early 2000s (improving the existing Edenton Bypass to freeway standards), bypasses of Elizabeth City and Windsor constructed in 1999 and 2008 respectively, relocation of US-17 in southern Chesapeake in 2005, and finally the Dominion Blvd widening / freeway project in 2017. IIRC, the segment between Windsor and Williamston was widened before the 1980s.

Dirt Roads

Quote from: Dirt Roads on October 04, 2020, 12:17:13 AM
I've had Raleigh-Norfolk on my list of missing links since the 1980's.  But it is indicative of a bigger problem, that there is no governmental incentive to build out traffic corridors unless it meets Interstate standards.
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 04, 2020, 12:55:30 AM
An interstate highway between Norfolk and Raleigh would satisfy a major missing link between the Hampton Roads metro and I-95 South, and thereby all of the major population centers from North Carolina south to Florida, which still isn't served by a freeway corridor. HPC #13 was planned in the 1990s and the vast majority of the 180 mile corridor is already built out to freeway standards, about 130 miles exactly, with only about 50 miles of arterial segment remaining. Of the 50 left, around 14 miles is mostly limited access with minor at-grade intersections, that including the segment from Virginia state line to Elizabeth City bypass, and the segment through the Roanoke River wetlands.

But given the current economy, does this corridor warrant a highway built to Interstate standards (as opposed to a Partially Limited Access highway not unlike US-421 west of Wilkesboro)? 

sprjus4

^

The remaining non-freeway segments are already 4 lane divided, partial access control, with the exception of Edenton to Windsor which is 5 lanes. That partial access concept has already been built out along US-17 in the past 20 years, now the goal is to complete those partial control access segments to full freeway standards.

The goal is to upgrade segments gradually phases over the next two decades as funding permits, it's not an all-at-once project.

architect77

Quote from: sprjus4 on October 04, 2020, 03:32:29 PM
^

The remaining non-freeway segments are already 4 lane divided, partial access control, with the exception of Edenton to Windsor which is 5 lanes. That partial access concept has already been built out along US-17 in the past 20 years, now the goal is to complete those partial control access segments to full freeway standards.

The goal is to upgrade segments gradually phases over the next two decades as funding permits, it's not an all-at-once project.

Yes, NC's default new road is a 4 lane, divided highway with at grade signalized intersections. The long term goal is for the entire stgate population to have one nearby to use, as it is considered very safe in design.

Actually the default might be a 4 lane divided highway with some sort of Superstreet intersections that eliminate some of the turn phases for less waiting. The Rolesville Bypass might be a good example.

The Superstreet approach invented by NCDOT is catching on. I read about a town in Northern Virginia that hired NCDOT to design some intersections up there.

Components not quite to interstate standards include shoulders a couple of feet wide instead of 10'-12' emergency pull off space.

Face it, the region between Raleigh and Norfolk in North Carolina is dying and there isn't much hope of it rebounding in our lives. Farmville, Williamston, even charming Edenton, are too far from growing metro areas to be economically connected.

An interstate to Norfolk should be a direct shot to have the benefit of a fast travel time if spending so much & all the effort.

My hometown of Louisburg will be connected to Raleigh with 4 lane, divided US401 being built right now, and NC561 begins/ends in Louisburg heads straight towards Norfolk passing through the towns of Rich Square and Ahoskie, whose names I've had to look at on a sign all my life but haven't ever been to.

sprjus4

Quote from: architect77 on October 04, 2020, 09:17:42 PM
An interstate to Norfolk should be a direct shot to have the benefit of a fast travel time if spending so much & all the effort.

My hometown of Louisburg will be connected to Raleigh with 4 lane, divided US401 being built right now, and NC561 begins/ends in Louisburg heads straight towards Norfolk passing through the towns of Rich Square and Ahoskie, whose names I've had to look at on a sign all my life but haven't ever been to.
The problem is cost at that rate. NCDOT could build a more direct corridor on other routes, but would require significant more work. US-64 / US-17 is already around 70% built to freeway standards, with the remaining 4 lanes divided. Only around 20 - 25 miles of new location construction will be required, with around 25 - 30 miles of upgrading existing four lane divided highways, much already with partial to limited access control. Other routes could involve 30 - 50+ miles of new location highway, as it would be largely impractical to upgrade a 2 lane road (unless it's something such as NC-11) vs. a 4 lane divided highway. Not to mention, very little in the way of population centers would be served.

The current routing is a trade off. It's not the most direct, but involves the least amount of new construction and serves a number of population centers in Eastern NC.

The most ideal routing would be US-58 between I-95 and Suffolk as far as time / distance goes, however there seems to be little interest within VDOT to enhance that corridor any further other than spot improvements closer to Suffolk. VDOT recently completed a US-58 Arterial Management Study which looks at spot improvements (as they've done / doing with a number of corridors) and included an interstate upgrade analysis, indicating it would cost at least $2 billion and up to over $3 billion to upgrade their segment to I-95, and that's not including Suffolk to Bowers Hill. With much higher priorities in the state and region, including I-64 widening, along with the prospect that NC is already planning a southern corridor - I-87 - there is likely going to be a desire on the northern side of the border to let North Carolina do most of the heavy lifting. VDOT would only need to upgrade around 12 miles of US-17 between VA-165 and the North Carolina line, which is already on limited-access right of way with at-grade intersections at minor rural intersections, with two signals at the northern portion of the project near Grassfield which would be the most involved construction.

architect77

Quote from: sprjus4 on October 04, 2020, 11:08:15 PM
Quote from: architect77 on October 04, 2020, 09:17:42 PM
An interstate to Norfolk should be a direct shot to have the benefit of a fast travel time if spending so much & all the effort.

My hometown of Louisburg will be connected to Raleigh with 4 lane, divided US401 being built right now, and NC561 begins/ends in Louisburg heads straight towards Norfolk passing through the towns of Rich Square and Ahoskie, whose names I've had to look at on a sign all my life but haven't ever been to.
The problem is cost at that rate. NCDOT could build a more direct corridor on other routes, but would require significant more work. US-64 / US-17 is already around 70% built to freeway standards, with the remaining 4 lanes divided. Only around 20 - 25 miles of new location construction will be required, with around 25 - 30 miles of upgrading existing four lane divided highways, much already with partial to limited access control. Other routes could involve 30 - 50+ miles of new location highway, as it would be largely impractical to upgrade a 2 lane road (unless it's something such as NC-11) vs. a 4 lane divided highway. Not to mention, very little in the way of population centers would be served.

The current routing is a trade off. It's not the most direct, but involves the least amount of new construction and serves a number of population centers in Eastern NC.

The most ideal routing would be US-58 between I-95 and Suffolk as far as time / distance goes, however there seems to be little interest within VDOT to enhance that corridor any further other than spot improvements closer to Suffolk. VDOT recently completed a US-58 Arterial Management Study which looks at spot improvements (as they've done / doing with a number of corridors) and included an interstate upgrade analysis, indicating it would cost at least $2 billion and up to over $3 billion to upgrade their segment to I-95, and that's not including Suffolk to Bowers Hill. With much higher priorities in the state and region, including I-64 widening, along with the prospect that NC is already planning a southern corridor - I-87 - there is likely going to be a desire on the northern side of the border to let North Carolina do most of the heavy lifting. VDOT would only need to upgrade around 12 miles of US-17 between VA-165 and the North Carolina line, which is already on limited-access right of way with at-grade intersections at minor rural intersections, with two signals at the northern portion of the project near Grassfield which would be the most involved construction.

That's fair, lets hope the higher speed rail service is  a priority since they now own all the land under the abandoned S line which is the only missing link between Petersburg and the NC state line.

They two states must find $4 billion to rebuild that 100 miles of track, and then train travel will be better than flying or driving to D.C.  and NYC.

Dirt Roads

Quote from: architect77 on October 05, 2020, 06:12:56 PM
They two states must find $4 billion to rebuild that 100 miles of track, and then train travel will be better than flying or driving to D.C.  and NYC.

I'm sure that things are better for airline travel now (if you can't tolerate the risk), but rail has certainly been favorable to flying for the past 18 years.  The hardest thing is that most of the northbound Amtrak options were at night (which got complicated when trains run late on the A-Line).  Full-disclosure:  I'm a railroader who has worked on Amtrak high-speed projects and spent much of my career working on trains (and things) in airports.  I would have preferred flying, but the trips north got too chaotic.  It was easier to drive to BWI and take a Metroliner.

LM117

Looks like there won't be any new I-87 shields beyond the Knightdale Bypass anytime soon...

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article246281865.html

Quote▪ The widening of U.S. 64/264 to six lanes between Wendell Boulevard and the split at Zebulon has been pushed back to sometime beyond 2029.
“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

sprjus4

Quote from: LM117 on October 09, 2020, 09:38:33 AM
Looks like there won't be any new I-87 shields beyond the Knightdale Bypass anytime soon...

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article246281865.html

Quote▪ The widening of U.S. 64/264 to six lanes between Wendell Boulevard and the split at Zebulon has been pushed back to sometime beyond 2029.
The problem is more with traffic congestion than anything else. That remaining 4 lane segment between the US-264 split and Knightdale Bypass is a mess carrying over 60,000 AADT.

LM117

Quote from: sprjus4 on October 09, 2020, 11:14:26 AM
Quote from: LM117 on October 09, 2020, 09:38:33 AM
Looks like there won't be any new I-87 shields beyond the Knightdale Bypass anytime soon...

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article246281865.html

Quote▪ The widening of U.S. 64/264 to six lanes between Wendell Boulevard and the split at Zebulon has been pushed back to sometime beyond 2029.
The problem is more with traffic congestion than anything else. That remaining 4 lane segment between the US-264 split and Knightdale Bypass is a mess carrying over 60,000 AADT.

Agreed. I've been through there before and it was packed. Seeing this project pushed back is a buzzkill.
“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

The Ghostbuster

At the rate they're going, it will take decades for Interstate 87 to fully connect Raleigh with Norfolk. A pity. I wonder if any of us will even be alive when Interstate 87 finally reaches the North Carolina/Virginia state line.

sprjus4

#1591
^

US-17 may be upgraded into a freeway between the Elizabeth City Bypass and state line by 2030, but will likely not tie in on either end for years after. Virginia's course is unknown, but they may advance their portion once that 13 mile segment is complete, completing a Norfolk to Elizabeth City freeway.

Speaking of the Virginia portion, cost estimates for candidate projects in the upcoming 2045 Hampton Roads LRTP are set to be released next month, which with I-87 being one of those projects, we would see for the first time an official price estimate from north of the border.

The Hertford Bypass may also have a couple interchanges constructed by 2030, with a Edenton to Hertford freeway upgrade forthcoming (it's currently funded in the STIP for planning & environmental study).

The other big pieces that will likely be built into the 2030s would be Williamston to Windsor, Windsor to Edenton, and Hertford to Elizabeth City.

It will be a slow process, but I imagine the whole thing will be substantially complete before or by 2040. They've made significant progress since the 1990s, with nearly 20 miles of freeway on US-17 and 30 miles on US-64, and that progress will continue. If that INFRA grant for the I-87 corridor is ever approved (failed 2 years in a row), 6 lane widening to US-264 split and Hertford interchanges would be funded, plus upgrading a good portion of the US-64 freeway to interstate standards. I personally think efforts should be first on getting US-17 up to at least a full freeway, then coming back and completing final touches (shoulder widening, bridge replacements, etc) to solidify its interstate status would be the best course, but that's not the plan.

architect77

what is the advantage of NC's habit of slow construction on any given project? I mean they will take a 1-2 year build and stretch it to 5 years of looking at orange barrels and lots of downtime.

The only reason I can think of it that one construction company is working on multiple projects  with the same crew alternating which projects are manned and active. I know that's somewhat unlikely but weather is not an excuse for the slow pace. Definitely no incentive offered to finish US401 to Louisburg within a reasonable amount of time.

sparker

Quote from: wdcrft63 on July 19, 2016, 06:30:45 PM
Quote from: LM117 on July 19, 2016, 05:27:10 PM
I know it's not directly road-related, but a recent announcement today involving development near the I-87 corridor could move the upgrade of US-64 up a notch or two in the future.

http://www.wral.com/csx-to-build-massive-cargo-terminal-in-edgecombe-county/15861789/

QuoteROCKY MOUNT, N.C. – After months of discussion and debate, CSX announced Tuesday that it will build its massive Carolina Connector cargo terminal in Edgecombe County.

The hub, which is expected to open in 2020, will be built between Battleboro and College roads south of U.S. Highway 301 in Rocky Mount. Officials anticipate 300 permanent jobs at the site, as well as 250 to 300 construction jobs.

Cargo transfer hubs improve efficiency in distributing goods from manufacturers to retailers and consumers, officials said, and they also reduce truck traffic on state highways. Studies by the state Department of Transportation show warehouses and other facilities usually cluster around such hubs, and officials have projected the Carolina Connector could eventually spawn up to 13,000 related jobs statewide.

DOT plans to provide $110 million in improvements to rail lines and terminal infrastructure, while CSX will invest $160 million in the project. The company also qualifies for up to $4.3 million in rebates of employee withholding taxes under a Job Development Investment Grant if it meets annual hiring and investment targets in the coming years, as well as $7.8 million in state tax credits.

Officials said the company was attracted to the Rocky Mount site because of its proximity to CSX's main north-south rail line, Interstate 95 and the future Interstate 87 corridor from the Triangle to Norfolk, Va., and the planned Interstate 42 corridor from the Triangle to Morehead City.
According to WRAL's version of this story, NC beat out VA and SC for this facility.

It's a nice reminder that highways can/should be built for tomorrow's traffic as well as today's.

This CSX terminal facility has been talked about for several years, principally in the RR industry press (including the publicly available Trains magazine).  It was apparently cancelled about 5 years ago due to a downturn in traffic and the adoption of "scheduled railroading" by CSX among others, a practice which tends to foreshadow a consolidation of origin/destination points rather than the deployment of additional ones.  But it seems the political value of building and operating the facility outweighed internal doubts, so it's finally being done.  FWIH from several quarters is that "Panamax" is indeed increasing the inbound volume from several East Coast and Gulf ports; this likely also figured into CSX's decision to resume development of the Rocky Mount yard/marshalling location. 

LM117

Quote from: sparker on October 12, 2020, 08:20:38 AM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on July 19, 2016, 06:30:45 PM
Quote from: LM117 on July 19, 2016, 05:27:10 PM
I know it's not directly road-related, but a recent announcement today involving development near the I-87 corridor could move the upgrade of US-64 up a notch or two in the future.

http://www.wral.com/csx-to-build-massive-cargo-terminal-in-edgecombe-county/15861789/

QuoteROCKY MOUNT, N.C. – After months of discussion and debate, CSX announced Tuesday that it will build its massive Carolina Connector cargo terminal in Edgecombe County.

The hub, which is expected to open in 2020, will be built between Battleboro and College roads south of U.S. Highway 301 in Rocky Mount. Officials anticipate 300 permanent jobs at the site, as well as 250 to 300 construction jobs.

Cargo transfer hubs improve efficiency in distributing goods from manufacturers to retailers and consumers, officials said, and they also reduce truck traffic on state highways. Studies by the state Department of Transportation show warehouses and other facilities usually cluster around such hubs, and officials have projected the Carolina Connector could eventually spawn up to 13,000 related jobs statewide.

DOT plans to provide $110 million in improvements to rail lines and terminal infrastructure, while CSX will invest $160 million in the project. The company also qualifies for up to $4.3 million in rebates of employee withholding taxes under a Job Development Investment Grant if it meets annual hiring and investment targets in the coming years, as well as $7.8 million in state tax credits.

Officials said the company was attracted to the Rocky Mount site because of its proximity to CSX's main north-south rail line, Interstate 95 and the future Interstate 87 corridor from the Triangle to Norfolk, Va., and the planned Interstate 42 corridor from the Triangle to Morehead City.
According to WRAL's version of this story, NC beat out VA and SC for this facility.

It's a nice reminder that highways can/should be built for tomorrow's traffic as well as today's.

This CSX terminal facility has been talked about for several years, principally in the RR industry press (including the publicly available Trains magazine).  It was apparently cancelled about 5 years ago due to a downturn in traffic and the adoption of "scheduled railroading" by CSX among others, a practice which tends to foreshadow a consolidation of origin/destination points rather than the deployment of additional ones.  But it seems the political value of building and operating the facility outweighed internal doubts, so it's finally being done.  FWIH from several quarters is that "Panamax" is indeed increasing the inbound volume from several East Coast and Gulf ports; this likely also figured into CSX's decision to resume development of the Rocky Mount yard/marshalling location.

It's not being built as large as originally planned, though. The state managed to convince CSX not to pull out altogether, so CSX finally agreed to build a scaled-down version of the terminal. This agreement happened after the then-CSX CEO Hunter Harrison died. IIRC, it was his idea to kill the project.

Here's an image of the construction taken back in July:

“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

Old Dominionite

Call me a selfish Virginian, but I really wish that the Commonwealth would push for an Interstate corridor between Martinsville and Virginia Beach along U.S. 58 (including present-day I-264). It would further revitalize the struggling cities across Southside, and it would better connect Hampton Roads with not only Raleigh/Research Triangle, but the Triad, Charlotte, Atlanta, and other populated areas within the interior Southeast.

The Ghostbuster

The US 58 corridor does not need an Interstate designation, but it is possible that more segments might be upgraded to freeway standards.

wdcrft63

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on October 12, 2020, 05:29:35 PM
The US 58 corridor does not need an Interstate designation, but it is possible that more segments might be upgraded to freeway standards.
A lot could be done, for example at Emporia, South Hill, and South Boston.

froggie

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on October 12, 2020, 05:29:35 PM
The US 58 corridor does not need an Interstate designation, but it is possible that more segments might be upgraded to freeway standards.

By this logic, the US 64 and US 17 corridors don't need an Interstate designation either.

As for 58, one could argue that an Interstate is warranted east of South Hill.  Even better argument for east of Emporia.

sprjus4

Local official discuss broadband, I-87 with Congressman Murphy
Relevant excerpt:
QuoteKersey also asked about the status of Interstate 87, which was discussed at a previous meeting with Murphy.

The road will go from Hampton Roads to Raleigh, and could bring about a tremendous amount of economic development for rural areas along the route, including Chowan County, Kersey said.

She noted that discussions with North Carolina Department of Transportation originally put the I-87 in a 10 year schedule, but now it's more like 20 years.

"So we were just wondering at the federal level what might be possible,"  Kersey said.

Murphy said that with a new administration — whether its President Donald Trump or another president — coming in, the plan will have to start from scratch in some way.

"But the good point is that I've had time to form some alliances and some friendships and some relationships with other individuals who from this area,"  he said. "With Representative Butterfield and several of my colleagues from Virginia, I will try to work in a Tidewater area to try to get them to work on a regional road. So I don't promise anything quick but I promise that that's definitely on the radar."

Also chiming in on infrastruction, Vaughan noted that he attended a transportation infrastructure meeting earlier in the day and discussed the connectivity of the region — through roads, waterways and railways. Murphy's office could be as asset in the process of connecting the region, Vaughan said.

In terms of economy, Knighton asked about the county's opportunity zone. The zone, which is pretty much everything north of U.S. 17, offers tax incentives to businesses moving into the area. The tract does not include most of Edenton or the southern part of the county.

"Getting into that opportunity zone would really be game changers for our community,"  she said. "We always been told that it can't be changed until the next census and know that but I don't know how long after the next census it will take."

Knighton asked if Murphy can help change the opportunity zone. He said that if elected, he would be happy to explore that. It would be easier to change the zone if other counties through the country experienced the same problem.



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