Interstate 11

[sparker]

I've said this before, I'll say it again. I believe any route of Interstate 11 in Las Vegas, other than the one that completely replaces all of Interstate 515 (and continues up US 95 past Interstate 15), is batshit crazy!

The sole drawback of using 515/95 is the level of traffic on that facility during commute times, since it tends to funnel Henderson residents (almost 300K population) into the principal employment area for both tourism and warehousing, of which LV has plenty!  But the east bypass concept is a bit dicey; that leg of the loop was cancelled some time ago due to residential opposition.  It'll probably come down to town center versus the part of the loop that is at least partially constructed; at that point, I'd rate it as a tossup!

[mrsman]

I've said this before, I'll say it again. I believe any route of Interstate 11 in Las Vegas, other than the one that completely replaces all of Interstate 515 (and continues up US 95 past Interstate 15), is batshit crazy!

The sole drawback of using 515/95 is the level of traffic on that facility during commute times, since it tends to funnel Henderson residents (almost 300K population) into the principal employment area for both tourism and warehousing, of which LV has plenty!  But the east bypass concept is a bit dicey; that leg of the loop was cancelled some time ago due to residential opposition.  It'll probably come down to town center versus the part of the loop that is at least partially constructed; at that point, I'd rate it as a tossup!

But that's standard of any 2di - they are generally routed through the city center.  Many cities have bypasses of some sort, and long distance travelers will know to take them, but there is no need to sign the 2di along the bypass.  The 2di will represent the shortest distance route.

In a simiilar vein, LA to SLC traffic might be better served by bypassing LV along 215, yet I-15 is still signed on the direct route through the resort district and Downtown LV.

[Hurricane Rex]

I've said this before, I'll say it again. I believe any route of Interstate 11 in Las Vegas, other than the one that completely replaces all of Interstate 515 (and continues up US 95 past Interstate 15), is batshit crazy!

Crazy doesn't necessarily mean impossible but it does mean it is going to be a lot more expensive.

[sparker]

I've said this before, I'll say it again. I believe any route of Interstate 11 in Las Vegas, other than the one that completely replaces all of Interstate 515 (and continues up US 95 past Interstate 15), is batshit crazy!

The sole drawback of using 515/95 is the level of traffic on that facility during commute times, since it tends to funnel Henderson residents (almost 300K population) into the principal employment area for both tourism and warehousing, of which LV has plenty!  But the east bypass concept is a bit dicey; that leg of the loop was cancelled some time ago due to residential opposition.  It'll probably come down to town center versus the part of the loop that is at least partially constructed; at that point, I'd rate it as a tossup!

But that's standard of any 2di - they are generally routed through the city center.  Many cities have bypasses of some sort, and long distance travelers will know to take them, but there is no need to sign the 2di along the bypass.  The 2di will represent the shortest distance route.

In a simiilar vein, LA to SLC traffic might be better served by bypassing LV along 215, yet I-15 is still signed on the direct route through the resort district and Downtown LV.

Des Moines and Tulsa say a big "hello"!  While there is something of an idiom regarding the path of 2di vs. 3di within an urban area, it certainly isn't written in stone.  And remember that 215 around the west side of LV isn't anywhere near completion presently; there's still some frontage-road travel while the actual projects commence; thus any current signage will direct travelers to the direct and functioning facility. 

That being said -- if it were my decision, I-11 would shoot straight down the city center via I-515 and US 95; the existing I-215 section has been in operation for over 20 years, and the number "215", even with a county pentagon shield, has referenced the western loop for almost as long.  Changing that loop to I-11 would likely lend an element of confusion to an area that's expecting a "215" loop to happen in time.  And since NDOT plainly hasn't been averse to cosigning both Interstate and US highways along a freeway, the replacement of I-515 with I-11 would be the sole change to be absorbed by the local driving public.   

[silverback1065]

if they route it along 215, it will probably be just an easy effort by them to get it finished. 

[roadfro]

I've said this before, I'll say it again. I believe any route of Interstate 11 in Las Vegas, other than the one that completely replaces all of Interstate 515 (and continues up US 95 past Interstate 15), is batshit crazy!

The sole drawback of using 515/95 is the level of traffic on that facility during commute times, since it tends to funnel Henderson residents (almost 300K population) into the principal employment area for both tourism and warehousing, of which LV has plenty!  But the east bypass concept is a bit dicey; that leg of the loop was cancelled some time ago due to residential opposition.  It'll probably come down to town center versus the part of the loop that is at least partially constructed; at that point, I'd rate it as a tossup!

You've got alignments confused... The eastern beltway idea was given a preliminary concept study and ultimately shelved several years ago–this would have gone through various neighborhoods and commercial areas on the east side of the Las Vegas Valley to complete the 215 loop. The east option being considered for I-11 runs outside of the Las Vegas Valley (behind Sunrise & Frenchmans Mountains) through the Lake Mead NRA to connect to I-15, then backtracks slightly to the north leg of 215.

if they route it along 215, it will probably be just an easy effort by them to get it finished. 

By the time an I-11 alignment decision is made, the lone remaining stretch of the western 215 beltway segment that isn't up to Interstate standard will have been converted to freeway–that project has been underway for about a year and should be completed this year. So if the south/west 215 option is chosen, they'll just have to build the connector between 215 and 95.

[silverback1065]

I've said this before, I'll say it again. I believe any route of Interstate 11 in Las Vegas, other than the one that completely replaces all of Interstate 515 (and continues up US 95 past Interstate 15), is batshit crazy!

The sole drawback of using 515/95 is the level of traffic on that facility during commute times, since it tends to funnel Henderson residents (almost 300K population) into the principal employment area for both tourism and warehousing, of which LV has plenty!  But the east bypass concept is a bit dicey; that leg of the loop was cancelled some time ago due to residential opposition.  It'll probably come down to town center versus the part of the loop that is at least partially constructed; at that point, I'd rate it as a tossup!

You've got alignments confused... The eastern beltway idea was given a preliminary concept study and ultimately shelved several years ago–this would have gone through various neighborhoods and commercial areas on the east side of the Las Vegas Valley to complete the 215 loop. The east option being considered for I-11 runs outside of the Las Vegas Valley (behind Sunrise & Frenchmans Mountains) through the Lake Mead NRA to connect to I-15, then backtracks slightly to the north leg of 215.

if they route it along 215, it will probably be just an easy effort by them to get it finished. 

By the time an I-11 alignment decision is made, the lone remaining stretch of the western 215 beltway segment that isn't up to Interstate standard will have been converted to freeway–that project has been underway for about a year and should be completed this year. So if the south/west 215 option is chosen, they'll just have to build the connector between 215 and 95.

will it become i-215? or stay a county highway?

[sparker]

I've said this before, I'll say it again. I believe any route of Interstate 11 in Las Vegas, other than the one that completely replaces all of Interstate 515 (and continues up US 95 past Interstate 15), is batshit crazy!

The sole drawback of using 515/95 is the level of traffic on that facility during commute times, since it tends to funnel Henderson residents (almost 300K population) into the principal employment area for both tourism and warehousing, of which LV has plenty!  But the east bypass concept is a bit dicey; that leg of the loop was cancelled some time ago due to residential opposition.  It'll probably come down to town center versus the part of the loop that is at least partially constructed; at that point, I'd rate it as a tossup!

You've got alignments confused... The eastern beltway idea was given a preliminary concept study and ultimately shelved several years ago–this would have gone through various neighborhoods and commercial areas on the east side of the Las Vegas Valley to complete the 215 loop. The east option being considered for I-11 runs outside of the Las Vegas Valley (behind Sunrise & Frenchmans Mountains) through the Lake Mead NRA to connect to I-15, then backtracks slightly to the north leg of 215.

if they route it along 215, it will probably be just an easy effort by them to get it finished. 

By the time an I-11 alignment decision is made, the lone remaining stretch of the western 215 beltway segment that isn't up to Interstate standard will have been converted to freeway–that project has been underway for about a year and should be completed this year. So if the south/west 215 option is chosen, they'll just have to build the connector between 215 and 95.

will it become i-215? or stay a county highway?

Once finished all the way around the west & north sides of town, NDOT will probably apply for Interstate status to make the whole thing I-215.  Regarding the east alignment, I was referring to the original beltway that would have impinged upon east side housing development, not the more recent routing that would pass through the Mead NRA (which might in itself be a bit dicey regarding environmental clearance).

[Bobby5280]

Des Moines and Tulsa say a big "hello"!  While there is something of an idiom regarding the path of 2di vs. 3di within an urban area, it certainly isn't written in stone.

Des Moines and Tulsa are very unique exceptions. Both places have somewhat strange geographical layouts and city plans. In Tulsa's case I-44 is still taking the most direct route through the central geometric area of the city. Tulsa's downtown is actually on the NW side of the city, not the center. Some of the busiest areas of Tulsa are South of I-44. In the case of Des Moines, no freeway cuts straight across that city at all; I-235 does this strange L-shape as it skirts the North side of the downtown district.

I think it would be far more logical to route I-11 along existing I-515/US-95 out to the NW side of Las Vegas, either terminating at the 215 loop or even going past it however far Interstate quality highway will take it.

Routing I-11 along I-215/CC-215 would result in I-11 ending at the same US-95/CC-215 intersection. The thru lanes on I-11 would have to change into another route number, be it a very short I-215 segment or something else. I think it would look pretty stupid on a map.

[sparker]

Des Moines and Tulsa say a big "hello"!  While there is something of an idiom regarding the path of 2di vs. 3di within an urban area, it certainly isn't written in stone.

Des Moines and Tulsa are very unique exceptions. Both places have somewhat strange geographical layouts and city plans. In Tulsa's case I-44 is still taking the most direct route through the central geometric area of the city. Tulsa's downtown is actually on the NW side of the city, not the center. Some of the busiest areas of Tulsa are South of I-44. In the case of Des Moines, no freeway cuts straight across that city at all; I-235 does this strange L-shape as it skirts the North side of the downtown district.

I think it would be far more logical to route I-11 along existing I-515/US-95 out to the NW side of Las Vegas, either terminating at the 215 loop or even going past it however far Interstate quality highway will take it.

Routing I-11 along I-215/CC-215 would result in I-11 ending at the same US-95/CC-215 intersection. The thru lanes on I-11 would have to change into another route number, be it a very short I-215 segment or something else. I think it would look pretty stupid on a map.

Actually, the plans I've seen for a potential I-11 loop on what's now I-215 and CC-215 show a new-terrain facility extending north from where the loop turns from N-S to E-W in the northwest LV quadrant and merging with US 95 some 5 miles north of there.  The E-W portion across to I-15 NE of North LV would retain, in some form, the "215" number.  That portion will almost certainly be the last part of the loop to be fully constructed (the ROW and most frontage roads to carry interim traffic are present).

[Bobby5280]

That little addition to the 215 loop would depend on ROW acquisition on the edge of Providence between the homes there and a big flood control berm or dam. I see a new freeway segment there as just as much a long shot proposition as the East loop alternative of running I-11 along the East edge of Henderson. They might as well put money that would be spent on that highway segment into upgrading the US-95/CC-215 interchange into a complete freeway to freeway interchange with direct connect flyover ramps. They're already building one of the flyover ramps there.

As far as Henderson goes I still expect that city to be forced to upgrade NV-564 (W Lake Mead Pkwy) to an urban freeway from the I-215/I-515 interchange out to Lake Las Vegas Pkwy or Northshore Road. For an East loop option I could see I-11 going through there. But then again it would be just as good to have I-215 signed along it.

[silverback1065]

I'm assuming they will fix that bizarre interchange with us 95? (at cc 215)  also, is summerlin parkway up to interstate standards at all?

[roadfro]

For reference, there is a topic on the Pacific Southwest board that also discusses I-11 routing in Nevada:
Interstate 11 alignment, through Vegas and points north

I'm assuming they will fix that bizarre interchange with us 95? (at cc 215)  also, is summerlin parkway up to interstate standards at all?

Also see Pacific Southwest:
US 95 and County 215 Centennial Bowl Interchange
Summerlin Parkway

[silverback1065]

For reference, there is a topic on the Pacific Southwest board that also discusses I-11 routing in Nevada:
Interstate 11 alignment, through Vegas and points north

I'm assuming they will fix that bizarre interchange with us 95? (at cc 215)  also, is summerlin parkway up to interstate standards at all?

Also see Pacific Southwest:
US 95 and County 215 Centennial Bowl Interchange
Summerlin Parkway

thank you, i'm almost never in this part of the board, so i wasn't aware of all of these topics

[Bobby5280]

Summerlin Parkway looks like it needs some work on the road's main lanes and shoulders to be brought up to Interstate standards. It probably needs to happen, right along with an upgraded freeway to freeway interchange between it and CC-215.

In addition to figuring out where I-11 should be routed through Las Vegas, planners there urgently need to look at some other corridor situations and start thinking about upgrades. There is a LOT of residential and urban sprawl growing rapidly along St Rose Pkwy (NV-146) between I-15 and I-215. I could see that being converted into a freeway. It would be a tight squeeze for the exits though. NV-160 in Enterprise to the South of the 215 loop is already too covered up with development to do any kind of freeway upgrade. One could try to build a South loop around Enterprise from I-15 and out West and North to connect into the 215 loop. But there's already so much development and various mountains the way. I don't know how such a relief loop could connect into 215.

[roadfro]

Summerlin Parkway looks like it needs some work on the road's main lanes and shoulders to be brought up to Interstate standards. It probably needs to happen, right along with an upgraded freeway to freeway interchange between it and CC-215.

In addition to figuring out where I-11 should be routed through Las Vegas, planners there urgently need to look at some other corridor situations and start thinking about upgrades. There is a LOT of residential and urban sprawl growing rapidly along St Rose Pkwy (NV-146) between I-15 and I-215. I could see that being converted into a freeway. It would be a tight squeeze for the exits though. NV-160 in Enterprise to the South of the 215 loop is already too covered up with development to do any kind of freeway upgrade. One could try to build a South loop around Enterprise from I-15 and out West and North to connect into the 215 loop. But there's already so much development and various mountains the way. I don't know how such a relief loop could connect into 215.

NDOT built out SR 146 & SR 160 to 8 lanes within the last decade or so to address development in these areas. Freeway facilities would be a bit much.

[sparker]

NDOT built out SR 146 & SR 160 to 8 lanes within the last decade or so to address development in these areas. Freeway facilities would be a bit much.

SR 146's junction with I-15 isn't too far south of the I-15/215 interchange; I-215 is more than sufficient to handle traffic from I-15 to Henderson, Boulder City, and the dam area.  Just because housing is being built in a specific area, such as along the surface portion of SR 146, that alone isn't reason enough to deploy a freeway which would be, in terms of service, a duplicate of existing facilities.  If that were the case -- considering the development of the region in the last couple of decades -- greater LV would be criss-crossed with grid-pattern and/or radial freeways every couple of miles rather than its "cross" of US 95 (I-515), I-15, and the developmental 215 ring (plus Summerlin Pkwy.).  For a fast-growing Sun Belt metro area, its freeway development has been, in a relative sense, remarkably restrained.     

[Max Rockatansky]

NDOT built out SR 146 & SR 160 to 8 lanes within the last decade or so to address development in these areas. Freeway facilities would be a bit much.

SR 146's junction with I-15 isn't too far south of the I-15/215 interchange; I-215 is more than sufficient to handle traffic from I-15 to Henderson, Boulder City, and the dam area.  Just because housing is being built in a specific area, such as along the surface portion of SR 146, that alone isn't reason enough to deploy a freeway which would be, in terms of service, a duplicate of existing facilities.  If that were the case -- considering the development of the region in the last couple of decades -- greater LV would be criss-crossed with grid-pattern and/or radial freeways every couple of miles rather than its "cross" of US 95 (I-515), I-15, and the developmental 215 ring (plus Summerlin Pkwy.).  For a fast-growing Sun Belt metro area, its freeway development has been, in a relative sense, remarkably restrained.   

160 tends to move along at a reasonable rate anyways and the traffic county drops off a ton by the time you reach 159 westbound.  West of Mountain Springs Summit it is a fairly high quality divided expressway to Pahrump.

[Sub-Urbanite]

There was preliminary discussion in the mid-2000s about a direct 160-to-215 link, but that went nowhere. It was a much better idea when there was nothing but desert linking the two, than it is now with development everywhere in the area.

[Max Rockatansky]

There was preliminary discussion in the mid-2000s about a direct 160-to-215 link, but that went nowhere. It was a much better idea when there was nothing but desert linking the two, than it is now with development everywhere in the area.

Isn't Pahrump up to something like 40,000 people?   Kind of amazing to think a population Center like that is just an hour from Death Valley.  I vaguely recall when it was largely just a swath of empty desert. 

[Sub-Urbanite]

Isn't Pahrump up to something like 40,000 people?   Kind of amazing to think a population Center like that is just an hour from Death Valley.  I vaguely recall when it was largely just a swath of empty desert.

If it isn't at 40, it's closing in. SR 160 has an ADT of about 8,700, down from close to 10k a decade ago. Got hit hard by the recession, which isn't surprising for a distant exurb.

The Southwest is so funny. Pahrump is 60 miles from Furnace Creek and we think of it as on the doorstep.

[Bobby5280]

SR 146's junction with I-15 isn't too far south of the I-15/215 interchange; I-215 is more than sufficient to handle traffic from I-15 to Henderson, Boulder City, and the dam area.

The I-15/NV-146 exit is 7 miles South of the I-15/I-215 interchange. It's 8 miles from the I-15/I-215 interchange up to the I-15/I-515 interchange. St Rose Pkwy is about 7 miles long from I-15 diagonally up to I-215 and has 10 traffic light controlled intersections between the two Interstate exits. Staying on I-15 and then taking I-215 over to the same spot to avoid all the traffic signals is 14 miles in length. As both commercial and residential development continues to blow up in that area I expect traffic to get a whole lot more busy on St Rose Pkwy. But, considering how close some of the development has built up next to the divided street it may be too late to do anything about it.

Building a loop around the housing development on the southern fringes of Henderson and Enterprise is a non-starter. All the relatively flat areas of land are getting filled in with development and new homes are going up on the foothills and higher up into the mountains.

[Max Rockatansky]

Isn't Pahrump up to something like 40,000 people?   Kind of amazing to think a population Center like that is just an hour from Death Valley.  I vaguely recall when it was largely just a swath of empty desert.

If it isn't at 40, it's closing in. SR 160 has an ADT of about 8,700, down from close to 10k a decade ago. Got hit hard by the recession, which isn't surprising for a distant exurb.

The Southwest is so funny. Pahrump is 60 miles from Furnace Creek and we think of it as on the doorstep.

Might as well be, that 60 miles is nothing on CA 190 and State Line Road on a fast day.  Funny to think that 60 miles would be considered a massive empty stretch through most of the eastern part of the country.

[rte66man]

Des Moines and Tulsa say a big "hello"! 

Des Moines and Tulsa are very unique exceptions. Both places have somewhat strange geographical layouts and city plans. In Tulsa's case I-44 is still taking the most direct route through the central geometric area of the city. Tulsa's downtown is actually on the NW side of the city, not the center. Some of the busiest areas of Tulsa are South of I-44.

Tulsa is that way because Skelly Drive was always planned as a bypass long before the Interstate highway system came into existence.  When the Turner was completed in 1953, the plans (some places even called it Skelly Bypass) took it along what was at that time the developed fringe of Tulsa. 51st Street was the boonies back then.  No one anticipated Tulsa growing so asymmetrically when it was planned, although the plans for a Creek Freeway corridor were on the books shortly after that.  AFAIK, there were never plans to reroute 44 over 244 when it was completed in the early 70's.

[sparker]

Des Moines and Tulsa say a big "hello"! 

Des Moines and Tulsa are very unique exceptions. Both places have somewhat strange geographical layouts and city plans. In Tulsa's case I-44 is still taking the most direct route through the central geometric area of the city. Tulsa's downtown is actually on the NW side of the city, not the center. Some of the busiest areas of Tulsa are South of I-44.

Tulsa is that way because Skelly Drive was always planned as a bypass long before the Interstate highway system came into existence.  When the Turner was completed in 1953, the plans (some places even called it Skelly Bypass) took it along what was at that time the developed fringe of Tulsa. 51st Street was the boonies back then.  No one anticipated Tulsa growing so asymmetrically when it was planned, although the plans for a Creek Freeway corridor were on the books shortly after that.  AFAIK, there were never plans to reroute 44 over 244 when it was completed in the early 70's.

Isn't part of Tulsa's "asymmetry" due to the Osage Nation's territory being adjacent to the city, limiting growth to the west and northwest of downtown except for the immediate north bank of the Arkansas River?  In any case, the city core is served by I-244, while the trunk I-44 follows a city-core bypass which, like so many, has since been subsumed by urban development (in this case, well before the Interstate aspect was present).  Since the developmental path of least resistance is to the south and southeast on both riverbanks, any corridor tracing the trajectory of former US 66 has little choice but to be city-bound.