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Funeral processions

Started by hbelkins, March 16, 2023, 11:41:28 AM

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wanderer2575

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 16, 2023, 12:45:20 PM
So, hypothetically, if you're going in the same direction as the funeral procession on a multilane arterial street, you may not pass any vehicle in the procession, but you can match your speed to theirs and drive next to them, perhaps by using your cruise control so that you don't pass.

Good luck with that.  The thing I most hate about driving in a funeral procession is how nobody else (except me, of course) can maintain a steady speed.  It's the ultimate low-speed study model of freeway traffic jams -- one person eases up from the accelerator a bit, the next person taps the brakes, the next person normally applies the brakes, the next person slams on the brakes, etc. etc.  Repeat until arrival at the cemetery.  While the hearse is traveling at a steady speed (except stopping for traffic signals or train crossings), the speed at the back of the procession is constantly varying anywhere between 50 mph and complete stop.

Quote from: catch22 on March 17, 2023, 10:55:07 AM
When my sister (who had a wickedly dry sense of humor) passed a few years ago, she left a short list of things she wanted as part of her funeral service.  Number one on the list was "No funeral procession.  These dangerous things were invented by funeral directors solely to drum up more business for themselves. :) ."

So, I made up maps for the trips between the funeral home, church, and cemetery, and had copies made for everyone.  Nobody got lost or had their car t-boned by someone not paying attention at an intersection.  And we all got to the cemetery before the hearse did.

I prefer this.  I have attended a couple funerals where a detailed map was provided and there was no procession.  The hearse was the last to arrive.  And the cemetery grounds crew put up signs to guide vehicles to the gravesite.


Rothman

Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2023, 10:40:49 AM
Quote from: Rothman on March 17, 2023, 10:17:47 AM

Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2023, 10:10:41 AM

Quote from: 7/8 on March 17, 2023, 09:59:57 AM
In the age of Google Maps, the idea seems outdated. Is it not possible to meet near the entrance of the graveyard and guide people from there?

You seem to think everybody drives around with a sat-nav device.

Well, a cell phone, anyway...

And a dashboard mount?  You realize, right, that using your phone for GPS directions falls under the category of cell phone use while driving in some jurisdictions?

Besides which, this is all pretending that everyone has a smartphone, which they don't.  I don't.

I smell fear of change.

Just get a smartphone.  If you don't, no attending funerals for you, then, by your own choice ("Yeah, Uncle Kphoger is just the way he is, you know?  Stubbornly wouldn't find his way to the cemetery.  Anyway, how are your kids...?")

In terms of getting cited for having a phone rattle off directions, I've yet to have that very-low-probability issue.  Besides, much safer to have a dashboard mount rather than glancing all the way down at a paper map.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Big John

There is a sign that funeral processions are prohibited on I-94 east of Moorland Rd in the Milwaukee area.

kphoger

Quote from: catch22 on March 17, 2023, 10:55:07 AM
So, I made up maps for the trips between the funeral home, church, and cemetery, and had copies made for everyone.

That's awesome!

For our wedding, I included detailed directions from out of town (from three different areas) in the invitations.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

kphoger

Quote from: Rothman on March 17, 2023, 11:02:30 AM
I smell fear of change.

Just get a smartphone.

No.  I used to have a smartphone, but I got rid of it because it came between me and spending time with my family.  I tried to overcome it and couldn't, so I got a dumbphone instead.

Quote from: Rothman on March 17, 2023, 11:02:30 AM
If you don't, no attending funerals for you, then, by your own choice ("Yeah, Uncle Kphoger is just the way he is, you know?  Stubbornly wouldn't find his way to the cemetery.  Anyway, how are your kids...?")

That's a bad solution to a made-up problem.

Quote from: Rothman on March 17, 2023, 11:02:30 AM
In terms of getting cited for having a phone rattle off directions, I've yet to have that very-low-probability issue.  Besides, much safer to have a dashboard mount rather than glancing all the way down at a paper map.

So everyone is supposed to go out and buy a dashboard mount now?  And pack it in their luggage when they fly in and rent a car?  All because people don't like having to wait for the procession to clear the intersection?
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

HighwayStar

The last time I was in Kentucky I encountered a funeral procession and stopped for it, both because that was what I was taught in drivers ED and because it is the right thing to do.
Also noteworthy was the fact that several construction workers on a nearby site stopped work and stood with their hard hats removed for the procession which was nice to see.
I would certainly love to return to the custom of stopping for processions, exiting the vehicle, and removing your hat, but if we can't do that we should at least have legal protections for processions.
I don't think the GPS has made the navigational aspect unwarranted. Not only do many people not have such devices, but few things are as vulgar in concept as driving in a funeral procession to the instructions of Karen saying "Turn Left at Main Street." Worse is the fact that multiple routes would often be specified, causing people to arrive in a disjoint fashion. And then of course there is the fact that the procession itself is a form of unity in the face of loss.
90 day jail sentence for the wilful and flagrant violation of one seems quite reasonable, I can't see that being applied to cases of innocent mistakes. And I would support a harsher sentence where the procession was a military funeral.
I think society has enough problems loosing meaningful human connection, I'd rather keep this one around.
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

kphoger

Quote from: HighwayStar on March 17, 2023, 11:12:29 AM
... it is the right thing to do
... we should at least have legal protections for processions
... few things are as vulgar in concept as driving in a funeral procession to the instructions of Karen saying "Turn Left at Main Street."
... the procession itself is a form of unity in the face of loss.

Agreed.  Agreed.  Agreed.  Agreed.

Quote from: HighwayStar on March 17, 2023, 11:12:29 AM
90 day jail sentence for the wilful and flagrant violation of one seems quite reasonable

Definitely NOT agreed.  The punishment seems wholly inappropriate for the crime.  A simple traffic ticket, like not yielding to a pedestrian, would be more appropriate.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

kphoger

Quote from: wanderer2575 on March 17, 2023, 11:00:36 AM
The thing I most hate about driving in a funeral procession is how nobody else (except me, of course) can maintain a steady speed.  It's the ultimate low-speed study model of freeway traffic jams -- one person eases up from the accelerator a bit, the next person taps the brakes, the next person normally applies the brakes, the next person slams on the brakes, etc. etc.  Repeat until arrival at the cemetery.  While the hearse is traveling at a steady speed (except stopping for traffic signals or train crossings), the speed at the back of the procession is constantly varying anywhere between 50 mph and complete stop.

*groan*  Yes!

And, if you're the 22nd car in line, then it almost doesn't matter how capable you are of maintaining a constant speed.  Now that I think about it critically, that funeral procession I mentioned being in that went halfway across a major metropolitan area:  it really didn't.  I guess it just felt like it must have been that long, because funeral processions are excruciatingly slow.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

thspfc

Not sure how I feel about funeral processions in general, but I agree that a 90-day sentence is ridiculous.

HighwayStar

Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2023, 11:18:12 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on March 17, 2023, 11:12:29 AM
... it is the right thing to do
... we should at least have legal protections for processions
... few things are as vulgar in concept as driving in a funeral procession to the instructions of Karen saying "Turn Left at Main Street."
... the procession itself is a form of unity in the face of loss.

Agreed.  Agreed.  Agreed.  Agreed.

Quote from: HighwayStar on March 17, 2023, 11:12:29 AM
90 day jail sentence for the wilful and flagrant violation of one seems quite reasonable

Definitely NOT agreed.  The punishment seems wholly inappropriate for the crime.  A simple traffic ticket, like not yielding to a pedestrian, would be more appropriate.

Well that is 4/5 agreed, not bad and certainly better than Meatloaf could do.
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

kphoger

I think of it as 1/2 agreed.  The part I disagree with was a doozy.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

HighwayStar

Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2023, 11:28:25 AM
I think of it as 1/2 agreed.  The part I disagree with was a doozy.

In other words, there is weighting applied to each individual agreed. Barnacles  :spin:
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

1995hoo

Quote from: kalvado on March 17, 2023, 10:52:07 AM
Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2023, 09:43:50 AM
Most people don't even know how to get to the graveyard, let alone how to navigate the maze of one-lane roads inside the graveyard if it's a big one.  I've been in a funeral procession a few times, and one of those went into another county, while another transited halfway across a major metropolitan area.  Without the police escort, most of us would have gotten lost–at a time of higher-than-usual emotions.  So I guess I'm saying I'm not against funeral processions.  I'm just against anyone who isn't cross-traffic having to stop for them:  they aren't fire trucks, after all.
In NY funeral processions are allowed to disregard red traffic lights. Not really a big deal for 5 cars IMHO.
Once upon a time I got stuck literally in the middle of intersection trying to turn left when light switched, as oncoming looong procession got stalled (20+ cars at least, but maybe 50+). Thanks to a lady who pulled back a bit and let me through....

In New York City, from what I understand funeral processions don't get a police escort because there are just too many for it, but the cars following the hearse are permitted to go through red lights if needed to stay with the hearse, although the hearse itself apparently has to stop if the light turns red as it approaches (primarily because of the safety issue that would otherwise arise). I strongly suspect this is one reason why many people attending funerals in New York City ride in rented limos instead of in their own cars–the theory is that other drivers are more likely to understand, and therefore respect, the line of limos. I remember when my mother's aunt, who lived in Brooklyn, died in 1989 we were not all in limos and someone broke into the procession, which then led to the hearse driver coming to a stop, gesturing at that guy to get out of the line, and yelling at him. For the other two funerals I've been to in New York (my father's mother in Far Rockaway and then my mother's mother in Brooklyn who was buried in the same plot as the aunt I just mentioned), we all did ride in limos and there were no issues with other drivers.

One of the peculiarities I noted in New York is how the funeral procession always goes past where the decedent lived if possible. They don't do that here, though I suppose in the suburbs that's far less practical anyway due to the logistics of everyone looping around a cul-de-sac or similar. (My father was cremated and we had no funeral procession in part because we had to wait nine months for inurnment at Arlington Cemetery.) I have noted that nowadays the prevalence of daytime running lights means that most funeral directors ask drivers to turn on their hazard flashers while in the procession.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

kphoger

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 17, 2023, 12:20:21 PM
In New York City, from what I understand funeral processions don't get a police escort because there are just too many for it, but the cars following the hearse are permitted to go through red lights if needed to stay with the hearse, although the hearse itself apparently has to stop if the light turns red as it approaches (primarily because of the safety issue that would otherwise arise).

This is my general understanding of how it works.  Admittedly, I may not have looked at the actual laws.  But my understanding is that a funeral procession may proceed as if it were a single vehicle:  if the front vehicle makes it through on a green light, then so do all the other vehicles, even if the light turns red partway through.  But a police escort allows for the possibility of the lead vehicle to go through red lights as well.

The most recent funeral procession I was in had two escort motorcycles.  One would plant himself in the middle of the intersection to stop cross-traffic, then the other one would race up ahead to the next stoplight, plant himself in that intersection, and the two continued leap-frogging in that way till we got to the graveyard.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

kalvado

Quote from: catch22 on March 17, 2023, 10:55:07 AM
When my sister (who had a wickedly dry sense of humor) passed a few years ago, she left a short list of things she wanted as part of her funeral service.  Number one on the list was "No funeral procession.  These dangerous things were invented by funeral directors solely to drum up more business for themselves. :) ."

So, I made up maps for the trips between the funeral home, church, and cemetery, and had copies made for everyone.  Nobody got lost or had their car t-boned by someone not paying attention at an intersection.  And we all got to the cemetery before the hearse did.
you cannot be late for your own funeral gets some new meaning here

bulldog1979

I've participated in four funeral processions: my paternal grandfather, a grandaunt, a relative of a relative, and my paternal step-grandmother.

For my grandfather's funeral, four matching black GMC Yukons were dropped off in front of his house the morning of the funeral for the family to ride together to the church. (Grandpa was a mover and shaker in the St. Cloud business community, and the dealership paid its respects that way as a favor to the family.) A fifth was dropped off at the church for the pallbearers, and we processed with other vehicles behind the hearse to the cemetery for the entombment service. The funeral home placed flags on each vehicle's fender as they left the church. Standard rules applied, but our route avoided stoplights.

For my grandaunt's funeral, we had a brief procession a couple of blocks from the funeral home to the church. They placed flags on the vehicles, but it was a bit overkill.

For the relative of a relative (my cousin's grandma), the city policy here directed traffic at the stoplights to allow us to go through. I don't remember if the funeral home flagged the cars or not.

My step-grandmother's funeral was similar to my grandfather's, except we didn't have the benefit of matching vehicles to carry the family behind the hearse. The group of people attending was much smaller, and it followed the same route between church and cemetery.

kphoger

Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

hbelkins

Quote from: HighwayStar on March 17, 2023, 11:12:29 AM
The last time I was in Kentucky I encountered a funeral procession and stopped for it, both because that was what I was taught in drivers ED and because it is the right thing to do.
Also noteworthy was the fact that several construction workers on a nearby site stopped work and stood with their hard hats removed for the procession which was nice to see.

All of these things are cultural traditions in rural Kentucky. I don't know that it is taught in drivers ed, since it's been more than a few years since I had it, but oncoming traffic stopping is definitely a thing here.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

kphoger

Quote from: kphoger on March 16, 2023, 12:36:40 PM
I was once flipped off and yelled at for not stopping when a funeral procession went by in the opposite direction in a rural area.

Quote from: hbelkins on March 17, 2023, 01:51:19 PM
... in rural Kentucky. I don't know that it is taught in drivers ed, since it's been more than a few years since I had it, but oncoming traffic stopping is definitely a thing here.

I don't remember exactly where that incident occurred, but I'm pretty sure it was within 50 miles (as the crow flies) of Kentucky.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

TheHighwayMan3561

The one time I ran into one was on I-94 northwest of Minneapolis. They were driving in the center lane and I was unsure of the legality of passing them.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

Rothman

Quote from: hbelkins on March 17, 2023, 01:51:19 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on March 17, 2023, 11:12:29 AM
The last time I was in Kentucky I encountered a funeral procession and stopped for it, both because that was what I was taught in drivers ED and because it is the right thing to do.
Also noteworthy was the fact that several construction workers on a nearby site stopped work and stood with their hard hats removed for the procession which was nice to see.

All of these things are cultural traditions in rural Kentucky. I don't know that it is taught in drivers ed, since it's been more than a few years since I had it, but oncoming traffic stopping is definitely a thing here.
My mother waxes nostalgic about funerals/wakes before funeral homes became truly established in deep eastern KY.  Just huge potlucks in people's homes.

Of course, to my anti-social grandfather, he'd grumble, "Time to go over there and sit with that body."
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

SectorZ

Quote from: kalvado on March 17, 2023, 06:15:06 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 17, 2023, 01:43:16 AM
When I die I do not want tons of cars blocking traffic in my honor
You're fairly optimistic if you expect enough people to show up so that there are tons of cars.

Well a single SUV constitutes "tons".

Scott5114

#47
Say me, my wife, and my friend Liz are all moving to Las Vegas together. We take three separate cars because we need to move the cars, after all. I am the most comfortable navigating because I am a roadgeek, so the other two cars are following me.

Other than the distance between the start and end points, how is this any different than a funeral procession? What logical reason (i.e. not based on "feelings" or "tradition") is there that my procession doesn't get the same protections against being broken up by stoplights, other cars cutting in, etc. as a funeral procession?
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Rothman

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 17, 2023, 07:30:19 PM
Say me, my wife, and my friend Liz are all moving to Las Vegas together. We take three separate cars because we need to move the cars, after all. I am the most comfortable navigating because I am a roadgeek, so the other two cars are following me.

Other than the distance between the start and end points, how is this any different than a funeral procession? What logical reason (i.e. not based on "feelings" or "tradition") is there that my procession doesn't get the same protections against being broken up by stoplights, other cars cutting in, etc. as a funeral procession?
You're not dead.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Scott5114

Quote from: Rothman on March 17, 2023, 11:50:34 PM
You're not dead.

Which means I'm more likely to be affected if my convoy gets broken up than the guest of honor at a funeral, no?
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef



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