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Started by mgk920, May 30, 2012, 02:33:31 AM

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The Ghostbuster

As everyone likely knows, in the 2000s, there was a proposal to extend the Metra line from Kenosha to Milwaukee. The extension was cancelled but appears to have been revived (along with a Madison-to-Milwaukee rail line): https://www.wisbusiness.com/2024/two-wisconsin-passenger-rail-ideas-back-on-the-study-track/. What do all of you think about these proposals? I'm not practically enthusiastic about them since I'd prefer utilizing buses between cities, but I am willing to hear feedback from others.


mgk920

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on March 18, 2024, 05:53:22 PM
As everyone likely knows, in the 2000s, there was a proposal to extend the Metra line from Kenosha to Milwaukee. The extension was cancelled but appears to have been revived (along with a Madison-to-Milwaukee rail line): https://www.wisbusiness.com/2024/two-wisconsin-passenger-rail-ideas-back-on-the-study-track/. What do all of you think about these proposals? I'm not practically enthusiastic about them since I'd prefer utilizing buses between cities, but I am willing to hear feedback from others.

I'm more bullish on the idea of restoring inter-city rail passenger service in the I-41 corridor to Green Bay, including reclaiming and restoring the Eisenbahn State Trail (former CNW grade via West bend) for rail use as part of the route.  From all that I am aware of, the pre-May 1971 CNW service to Green Bay via Appleton was operating at a profit 'above the rails' and Amtrak wanted to take it over at their startup at that time, but other factors, many of which are no longer valid issues, prevented that.

Mike

SEWIGuy

I honestly can't see anyone supporting turning a state trail back into a working railroad.

triplemultiplex

Well that's always been a part of the rails-to-trails deal.  They retain the right to turn it back to railroad in the future if the need arises.  And the utility of using that corridor via West Bend for MKE - Fox Valley passenger rail is extremely high.  Especially since West Bend is the perfect distance between Milwaukee and Fond du Lac for an intermediate stop.

And obviously I've made my feelings known about MKE-MSN and how that should've been done a decade ago, but for certain short-sighted political bullcrap.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

SEWIGuy

Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 19, 2024, 10:23:04 AM
Well that's always been a part of the rails-to-trails deal.  They retain the right to turn it back to railroad in the future if the need arises.  And the utility of using that corridor via West Bend for MKE - Fox Valley passenger rail is extremely high.  Especially since West Bend is the perfect distance between Milwaukee and Fond du Lac for an intermediate stop.

I realize that it *can* be turned back. I just think there would be a public uprising if they seriously suggested turning it back into a rail line.

I really don't share your opinion on the utility of that line. It's an easy drive and most people have gotten used to that.

hobsini2

Quote from: SEWIGuy on March 19, 2024, 10:48:27 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 19, 2024, 10:23:04 AM
Well that's always been a part of the rails-to-trails deal.  They retain the right to turn it back to railroad in the future if the need arises.  And the utility of using that corridor via West Bend for MKE - Fox Valley passenger rail is extremely high.  Especially since West Bend is the perfect distance between Milwaukee and Fond du Lac for an intermediate stop.

I realize that it *can* be turned back. I just think there would be a public uprising if they seriously suggested turning it back into a rail line.

I really don't share your opinion on the utility of that line. It's an easy drive and most people have gotten used to that.

I am going to disagree with you respectfully. Turning that trail back into a rail line would be a good idea. In fact, I would even add a station in the Northwest Suburbs around Brown Deer Rd and 107th St.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

mgk920

Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 19, 2024, 10:23:04 AM
Well that's always been a part of the rails-to-trails deal.  They retain the right to turn it back to railroad in the future if the need arises.  And the utility of using that corridor via West Bend for MKE - Fox Valley passenger rail is extremely high.  Especially since West Bend is the perfect distance between Milwaukee and Fond du Lac for an intermediate stop.

And obviously I've made my feelings known about MKE-MSN and how that should've been done a decade ago, but for certain short-sighted political bullcrap.

A key tenet of the federal 'Rails To Trails' act has always been the agreement that any such facilities can be restored to rail usage at any time, it was meant as a way of preserving such routings that have a potential for future transportation use but not RIGHT NOW.  Kind of like preserving routings for future highways.

That said, IMHO, restoring the Eisenbahn Trail to rail use would be more cost-effective as it is already graded and deep-ballasted compared having to add a second main track to the existing CN (ex WC, nee SOO) route (currently single-track with CTC-controled passing sidings and was never double tracked), which would require building an entirely new grade through an environmentally iffy area (although CN might have to do that in a few years anyways with the current levels of their own freight traffic).  And additionally, going by way of West Bend also brings a 10K+ market directly into the mix - a 'win-win'.

Mike

hobsini2

Quote from: mgk920 on March 19, 2024, 11:59:43 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 19, 2024, 10:23:04 AM
Well that's always been a part of the rails-to-trails deal.  They retain the right to turn it back to railroad in the future if the need arises.  And the utility of using that corridor via West Bend for MKE - Fox Valley passenger rail is extremely high.  Especially since West Bend is the perfect distance between Milwaukee and Fond du Lac for an intermediate stop.

And obviously I've made my feelings known about MKE-MSN and how that should've been done a decade ago, but for certain short-sighted political bullcrap.

A key tenet of the federal 'Rails To Trails' act has always been the agreement that any such facilities can be restored to rail usage at any time, it was meant as a way of preserving such routings that have a potential for future transportation use but not RIGHT NOW.  Kind of like preserving routings for future highways.

That said, IMHO, restoring the Eisenbahn Trail to rail use would be more cost-effective as it is already graded and deep-ballasted compared having to add a second main track to the existing CN (ex WC, nee SOO) route (currently single-track with CTC-controled passing sidings and was never double tracked), which would require building an entirely new grade through an environmentally iffy area (although CN might have to do that in a few years anyways with the current levels of their own freight traffic).  And additionally, going by way of West Bend also brings a 10K+ market directly into the mix - a 'win-win'.

Mike
Actually, West Bend in the last census is now over 31k. If you add Jackson (7198), Kewaskum (4372) and Barton (2546) as surrounding cities, that brings the area pop to over 45k. Not a bad market at all.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

SEWIGuy

Quote from: hobsini2 on March 19, 2024, 11:42:25 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on March 19, 2024, 10:48:27 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 19, 2024, 10:23:04 AM
Well that's always been a part of the rails-to-trails deal.  They retain the right to turn it back to railroad in the future if the need arises.  And the utility of using that corridor via West Bend for MKE - Fox Valley passenger rail is extremely high.  Especially since West Bend is the perfect distance between Milwaukee and Fond du Lac for an intermediate stop.

I realize that it *can* be turned back. I just think there would be a public uprising if they seriously suggested turning it back into a rail line.

I really don't share your opinion on the utility of that line. It's an easy drive and most people have gotten used to that.

I am going to disagree with you respectfully. Turning that trail back into a rail line would be a good idea. In fact, I would even add a station in the Northwest Suburbs around Brown Deer Rd and 107th St.

I just don't see a significant number of people using it.

TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 19, 2024, 10:23:04 AM
Well that's always been a part of the rails-to-trails deal.  They retain the right to turn it back to railroad in the future if the need arises.  And the utility of using that corridor via West Bend for MKE - Fox Valley passenger rail is extremely high.  Especially since West Bend is the perfect distance between Milwaukee and Fond du Lac for an intermediate stop.

And obviously I've made my feelings known about MKE-MSN and how that should've been done a decade ago, but for certain short-sighted political bullcrap.

They may have grounds to turn a trail back to rail, but if it would be economically palatable to anyone is another question. It's not just rebuilding the track, but restoring all the long-removed crossing lights and gates, utilities, and other associated infrastructure.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

triplemultiplex

If you build it, they will come.
Such a train would be well-used for Packer games, that's for sure.
But really it's for moving people to/from Chicago.  As a functional extension of the Hiawatha Line, that's going to be the biggest advantage here; not bringing people between, say, Appleton and Milwaukee (though it will), but to open up easy access to Chicago for the Fox Valley Cities.  That is the slam dunk about this proposal as far as I'm concerned.

More trains to Chicago; that's what I'm talking about.  Driving sucks in that entire metro and their airports are a shitshow.  If you build it, they will come.
That's what pissed me off the most about a former governor up here turning down big federal money to link Madison and Milwaukee.  It's not just about those two cities.  It's about having better options to get into Chicago, the economic engine of the entire Midwest.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

TheCatalyst31

I'll never forgive Walker for turning down that federal money. I love Madison, but one of its biggest downsides is the complete lack of passenger rail, and I know so many people (myself included) who have friends in Chicago or go there on a regular basis.

mgk920

Quote from: TheHighwayMan3561 on March 19, 2024, 04:41:26 PMThey may have grounds to turn a trail back to rail, but if it would be economically palatable to anyone is another question. It's not just rebuilding the track, but restoring all the long-removed crossing lights and gates, utilities, and other associated infrastructure.

Everything on the former CNW/FRVR/WC Eisenbahn Trail grade would have had to have been replaced, anyways, it would be all new track and signalling.  The former infrastructure all dated to the mid 20th century and perhaps earlier with only the ballast and some of the old ties being newer (changed out as part of regular maintenance).

Mike

Molandfreak

Would there be a way to retain the trail alongside the new rail system, or would the ROW required for that be prohibitively expensive?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 05, 2023, 08:24:57 PM
AASHTO attributes 28.5% of highway inventory shrink to bad road fan social media posts.

on_wisconsin

#4639
Meanwhile, on a relatively minor note, the Eau Claire city council is expected to approve a new multi-use trail overpass of I-94 immediately west of the US-53 interchange. https://volumeone.org/articles/2024/03/27/338656-120m-development-south-of-i-94-gets-city-council
"Speed does not kill, suddenly becoming stationary... that's what gets you" - Jeremy Clarkson



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