I was just noticing that from the start of the NY/VT state line at Rouses Point, you have to go south all the way to I-90 before you encounter an interstate that crosses the state line. There are no interstate crossings between NY and VT. The distance from Rouses Point to I-90 at the NY/MA line is around 200 miles.
So, two questions:
1. What is the longest shared state line with no interstate crossings? NY/VT would be a candidate, but WI/MI and NE/KS are longer.
2. What is the longest
combined stretch of state lines with no interstate crossings?
-As in the example above, you could continue NY/VT with NY/MA, but you have to stop when you hit an interstate.
-Both of the original states can switch as long as the line is continuous, such as ND/MT > MT/SD > SD/WY
-90 degree turns, such as the corner of WY near Yellowstone, are allowed, but 180 degree turns are not allowed (I'm not sure if any even exist, so this is just a pre-emptive note).
-Also consider that partial state lines with a long section between interstates (like TX/NM, which does not qualify for question 1 because of I-10 and I-27) could still count.
Edited to add:
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 21, 2021, 11:55:47 PM
An interesting question 3 might be, for each state, what is the longest stretch of state line between crossings? i.e. measuring from one Interstate to the next along that state's boundaries.
Obviously, all questions pertain only to the lower 48 states.
Unscientifically I think NE/SD is longer than NE/KS, so that's my guess.
Quote from: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 10:44:35 PM
I was just noticing that from the start of the NY/VT state line at Rouses Point, you have to go south all the way to I-90 before you encounter an interstate that crosses the state line. There are no interstate crossings between NY and VT. The distance from Rouses Point to I-90 at the NY/MA line is around 200 miles.
So, two questions:
1. What is the longest shared state line with no interstate crossings? NY/VT would be a candidate, but WI/MI and NE/KS are longer.
2. What is the longest combined stretch of state lines with no interstate crossings?
-As in the example above, you could continue NY/VT with NY/MA, but you have to stop when you hit an interstate.
-Both of the original states can switch as long as the line is continuous, such as ND/MT > MT/SD > SD/WY
-90 degree turns, such as the corner of WY near Yellowstone, are allowed, but 180 degree turns are not allowed (I'm not sure if any even exist, so this is just a pre-emptive note).
-Also consider that partial state lines with a long section between interstates (like TX/NM, which does not qualify for question 1 because of I-10 and I-27) could still count.
Obviously, both questions pertain only to the lower 48 states.
This is my nomination for #2:
(https://i.imgur.com/ryWkCqJ.png?1)
^ That crosses I-535, but still a good candidate even starting in Duluth.
Quote from: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 11:00:24 PM
^ That crosses I-535, but still a good candidate even starting in Duluth.
Times I forgot I-535 exists: too many to count :banghead:
Modified it without the section between I-94 and I-535:
(https://i.imgur.com/0dA4m8i.png?1)
And the Wisconsin-Michigan border for #1:
(https://i.imgur.com/ogKd30y.png?1)
Looking at a handful of western states with long borders, the biggest ones I see without an interstate crossing are NV-OR, NV-ID, and ID-WY.
An interesting question 3 might be, for each state, what is the longest stretch of state line between crossings? i.e. measuring from one Interstate to the next along that state's boundaries.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 21, 2021, 11:55:47 PM
An interesting question 3 might be, for each state, what is the longest stretch of state line between crossings? i.e. measuring from one Interstate to the next along that state's boundaries.
Ohio: about 250 miles along its border with KY and WV between I-275 and I-77.
Indiana: about 250 miles along its border with IL and KY between both I-64 crossings. This will get shortened when I-69's Ohio River crossing gets finished.
Kentucky: about 280 miles along its border with IL and IN between I-24 and I-64. This will get shortened when I-69's Ohio River crossing gets finished.
Missouri: about 350 miles along its border with OK and AR between I-44 and I-55. This will get shortened when I-49's Bella Vista Bypass gets finished.
Illinois: about 165 miles along its border with IA and WI between I-80 and I-39. Illinois have two others that are close in length.
- Between I-72 and I-280: 160 miles
- Between I-57 and I-255: 160 miles
The only other one I could think of in the Northeast is NY-RI, and that's an extremely small water border. VA and KY have a significant border with no interstate crossings. GA and NC have a smaller one.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 21, 2021, 11:55:47 PM
An interesting question 3 might be, for each state, what is the longest stretch of state line between crossings? i.e. measuring from one Interstate to the next along that state's boundaries.
The TX/NM border runs for right around 425 miles between I-10 and I-40. A fairly coarse estimate of the ID/MT border between I-90 and I-15 pegs it around 405 miles, but a more meticulous, detailed measurement should yield a distance significantly longer than the section of the TX/NM border.
Arkansas and Mississippi have no interstate crossings. Because the border follows the twists and turns of the Mississippi River, it will be quite lengthy, probably close to 400 miles.
Quote from: Road Hog on April 22, 2021, 03:08:35 AM
Arkansas and Mississippi have no interstate crossings. Because the border follows the twists and turns of the Mississippi River, it will be quite lengthy, probably close to 400 miles.
Fortunately, the Mississippi River is mileposted. The southern border of Arkansas intersects the river at mile 507, and the southern border of Tennessee intersects at mile 715, for a total of 208 miles.
There are a few places where the border meanders along oxbows while the river doesnt, but it's definitely not 200 miles worth.
Quote from: Road Hog on April 22, 2021, 03:08:35 AM
Arkansas and Mississippi have no interstate crossings. Because the border follows the twists and turns of the Mississippi River, it will be quite lengthy, probably close to 400 miles.
You can add the Louisiana-Arkansas state line east of I-49 as well, since it's all contiguous.
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 22, 2021, 12:13:01 AM
Kentucky: about 280 miles along its border with IL and IN between I-24 and I-64. This will get shortened when I-69's Ohio River crossing gets finished.
That certainly highlights the meanderings of the Ohio River, as it's definitely not 280 miles from Louisville to Paducah via US 60.
For question #2 not using maritime borders:
Around 502 miles along the CA/OR -> NV/OR -> NV/ID -> ID/UT border from I-5 to I-84.
Around 544 miles along the NE/WY -> NE/SD -> NE/IA border from I-80 to I-129.
Around 570 miles along WY/MT -> MT/SD -> SD/ND border from I-90 to I-29.
Chris
CA has two of these: first on the border with NV between I-15 and I-80, and then from there to the OR border where I-5 crosses over.
WA has a fairly large gap as well, stretching from I-90 on the ID border to I-82 on the OR border with the Columbia River.
For OR, it has two as well: from I-82 on the WA border to I-84 on the ID border, and then from there to I-5 at the CA border, which includes the aforementioned border with NV.
Question #2 for Utah is about 406 miles, from I-15 at the AZ border to I-70 at the CO border.
The Oklahoma panhandle might be a contender, as no interstate crosses into Oklahoma from I-40, up north, west around the panhandle, and east until I-35. According to rough measurements, it is 600 miles. I believe this may be a candidate for the longest such land border.
Quote from: MCRoads on April 22, 2021, 11:48:55 AM
The Oklahoma panhandle might be a contender, as no interstate crosses into Oklahoma from I-40, up north, west around the panhandle, and east until I-35. According to rough measurements, it is 600 miles. I believe this may be a candidate for the longest such land border.
↓ I knew I put this in there for a reason! :D But now that we have a practical example, I'm wavering. I'll let the audience decide if it counts or not.
Quote from: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 10:44:35 PM
2. What is the longest combined stretch of state lines with no interstate crossings?
...
-90 degree turns, such as the corner of WY near Yellowstone, are allowed, but 180 degree turns are not allowed (I'm not sure if any even exist, so this is just a pre-emptive note).
Keep in mind that the panhandle itself is pretty wide, about 35 miles IIRC.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 21, 2021, 11:55:47 PM
An interesting question 3 might be, for each state, what is the longest stretch of state line between crossings? i.e. measuring from one Interstate to the next along that state's boundaries.
For Georgia it's the section between I-75 at the FL line and I-85 at the AL line.
For NC I would guess the section from I-40 at the TN line to I-26 at the SC line.
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 21, 2021, 10:53:29 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 10:44:35 PM
I was just noticing that from the start of the NY/VT state line at Rouses Point, you have to go south all the way to I-90 before you encounter an interstate that crosses the state line. There are no interstate crossings between NY and VT. The distance from Rouses Point to I-90 at the NY/MA line is around 200 miles.
So, two questions:
1. What is the longest shared state line with no interstate crossings? NY/VT would be a candidate, but WI/MI and NE/KS are longer.
2. What is the longest combined stretch of state lines with no interstate crossings?
-As in the example above, you could continue NY/VT with NY/MA, but you have to stop when you hit an interstate.
-Both of the original states can switch as long as the line is continuous, such as ND/MT > MT/SD > SD/WY
-90 degree turns, such as the corner of WY near Yellowstone, are allowed, but 180 degree turns are not allowed (I'm not sure if any even exist, so this is just a pre-emptive note).
-Also consider that partial state lines with a long section between interstates (like TX/NM, which does not qualify for question 1 because of I-10 and I-27) could still count.
Obviously, both questions pertain only to the lower 48 states.
This is my nomination for #2:
(https://i.imgur.com/ryWkCqJ.png?1)
You went past I-535.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 21, 2021, 11:55:47 PM
An interesting question 3 might be, for each state, what is the longest stretch of state line between crossings? i.e. measuring from one Interstate to the next along that state's boundaries.
Looks like about 403 miles for Colorado, from I-70 @ UT to I-25 @ NM.
Chris
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 21, 2021, 11:55:47 PM
An interesting question 3 might be, for each state, what is the longest stretch of state line between crossings? i.e. measuring from one Interstate to the next along that state's boundaries.
Michigan: Start at I-94 going into IN. Continue to and up the middle of Lake Michigan, into Green Bay (the bay, not the city), along the MI/WI land border, up around Isle Royale, over to the St Marys River, down Lake Huron through to Lake Erie, around the corner along the Ohio border and end where I-75 crosses the line.
Montana along its northern borders is probably even longer.
Quote from: webny99 on April 22, 2021, 11:54:37 AM
Quote from: MCRoads on April 22, 2021, 11:48:55 AM
The Oklahoma panhandle might be a contender, as no interstate crosses into Oklahoma from I-40, up north, west around the panhandle, and east until I-35. According to rough measurements, it is 600 miles. I believe this may be a candidate for the longest such land border.
↓ I knew I put this in there for a reason! :D But now that we have a practical example, I'm wavering. I'll let the audience decide if it counts or not.
Quote from: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 10:44:35 PM
2. What is the longest combined stretch of state lines with no interstate crossings?
...
-90 degree turns, such as the corner of WY near Yellowstone, are allowed, but 180 degree turns are not allowed (I'm not sure if any even exist, so this is just a pre-emptive note).
It would count for my question 3, if nothing else.
I guess I have never thought of the WI / MI border running down the center of Lake Michigan as an actual border. Who has jurisdiction over Lake Michigan? Does something change when you cross the "border" in the middle of the lake?
EDIT: For instance, when the total area of Wisconsin is calculated, do they include the portion of Lake Michigan that is on its side of the border?
You can find lists that have water area and land area for states.
When the water area is included for MI, it's larger than Utah.
Given that there's no real state or local authority that has access in the Great Lakes (kind of hard to get the State Police out there), law enforcement probably falls to the Coast Guard. Those law enforcement agencies that have boats - Detroit Police and Macomb County Sherriff as examples - primarily use them in near-shore waters for rescues and such.
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 22, 2021, 11:20:55 AM
For question #2 not using maritime borders:
Around 502 miles along the CA/OR -> NV/OR -> NV/ID -> ID/UT border from I-5 to I-84.
Around 544 miles along the NE/WY -> NE/SD -> NE/IA border from I-80 to I-129.
Around 570 miles along WY/MT -> MT/SD -> SD/ND border from I-90 to I-29.
Chris
Also about 502 miles along the AZ/UT -> CO/NM border from I-15 to I-25.
Quote from: GaryV on April 22, 2021, 08:22:02 PM
You can find lists that have water area and land area for states.
When the water area is included for MI, it's larger than Utah.
Given that there's no real state or local authority that has access in the Great Lakes (kind of hard to get the State Police out there), law enforcement probably falls to the Coast Guard. Those law enforcement agencies that have boats - Detroit Police and Macomb County Sherriff as examples - primarily use them in near-shore waters for rescues and such.
Gotcha. I guess I never realized that included Great Lakes water too but that makes sense.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 22, 2021, 04:26:29 PM
I guess I have never thought of the WI / MI border running down the center of Lake Michigan as an actual border. Who has jurisdiction over Lake Michigan? Does something change when you cross the "border" in the middle of the lake?
EDIT: For instance, when the total area of Wisconsin is calculated, do they include the portion of Lake Michigan that is on its side of the border?
To answer your edit yes Wisconsin's total area would include the half of Lake Michigan that is in Wisconsin.
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 23, 2021, 09:41:16 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 22, 2021, 04:26:29 PM
I guess I have never thought of the WI / MI border running down the center of Lake Michigan as an actual border. Who has jurisdiction over Lake Michigan? Does something change when you cross the "border" in the middle of the lake?
EDIT: For instance, when the total area of Wisconsin is calculated, do they include the portion of Lake Michigan that is on its side of the border?
To answer your edit yes Wisconsin's total area would include the half of Lake Michigan that is in Wisconsin.
Thank you! Never too old to learn something I guess...
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 23, 2021, 09:41:16 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 22, 2021, 04:26:29 PM
I guess I have never thought of the WI / MI border running down the center of Lake Michigan as an actual border. Who has jurisdiction over Lake Michigan? Does something change when you cross the "border" in the middle of the lake?
EDIT: For instance, when the total area of Wisconsin is calculated, do they include the portion of Lake Michigan that is on its side of the border?
To answer your edit yes Wisconsin's total area would include the half of Lake Michigan that is in Wisconsin.
Yep, imagine if the Great Lakes ever dried up. The boundaries are set up so that it's clear who has jurisdiction over what. Same is true for the Canadian border, which is how OH and PA technically border (Ontario) Canada and IL borders MI.
Jurisdiction out to sea has a limit but the Great Lakes are inland waters and legal jurisdiction is determined in the same was as it is in the Potomac, Mississippi, Missouri or any other river that acts as a boundary - by which side you're on. And the states have jurisdiction over fishing licenses too.
So yes, it counts.
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 23, 2021, 03:25:35 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 23, 2021, 09:41:16 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 22, 2021, 04:26:29 PM
I guess I have never thought of the WI / MI border running down the center of Lake Michigan as an actual border. Who has jurisdiction over Lake Michigan? Does something change when you cross the "border" in the middle of the lake?
EDIT: For instance, when the total area of Wisconsin is calculated, do they include the portion of Lake Michigan that is on its side of the border?
To answer your edit yes Wisconsin's total area would include the half of Lake Michigan that is in Wisconsin.
Yep, imagine if the Great Lakes ever dried up. The boundaries are set up so that it's clear who has jurisdiction over what. Same is true for the Canadian border, which is how OH and PA technically border (Ontario) Canada and IL borders MI.
Jurisdiction out to sea has a limit but the Great Lakes are inland waters and legal jurisdiction is determined in the same was as it is in the Potomac, Mississippi, Missouri or any other river that acts as a boundary - by which side you're on. And the states have jurisdiction over fishing licenses too.
So yes, it counts.
This is also why Toledo has an official port of entry.
Chris
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 23, 2021, 03:42:27 PM
This is also why Toledo has an official port of entry.
Chris
That's because they can receive international cargo on ships via the St Lawrence Seaway. Milwaukee, Chicago, Duluth, Detroit, etc. are also ports of entry.
Not a record, but 310 miles of border between I-75 and I-10 along Florida's northern borders.
Has anyone compiled a list of borders with no interstate crossings?
Kentucky has two -- no interstates between here and Missouri, and none between here and Virginia.
The most we have is five with Ohio -- two for 275, a shared crossing for 71 and 75, and 471 -- and they're all concentrated within a relatively few miles.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 24, 2021, 10:28:43 PM
Has anyone compiled a list of borders with no interstate crossings?
Kentucky has two -- no interstates between here and Missouri, and none between here and Virginia.
Oklahoma has two: no interstates between here and New Mexico or Colorado.
If you want to be very charitable and count TX and OK as having three borders with one another (east-west, north-south, and Red River) then the east-west border forming the southern border of the Panhandle would count as a third one.
It's kind of amazing how long the KS/NE border is, with no Interstate crossings at all.
As far as western states go: Idaho-Wyoming, Nevada-Idaho, Nevada-Oregon, New Mexico-Oklahoma, Colorado-Oklahoma, and Montana-South Dakota all have zero interstate crossings.
The Four Corners (UT-NM, AZ-CO) don't have any either, but given those are zero-length borders it seems silly to include them here.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 24, 2021, 10:28:43 PM
Has anyone compiled a list of borders with no interstate crossings?
Kentucky has two -- no interstates between here and Missouri, and none between here and Virginia.
The most we have is five with Ohio -- two for 275, a shared crossing for 71 and 75, and 471 -- and they're all concentrated within a relatively few miles.
OhioIndiana: 5 (I-275, I-74, I-70, I-80, I-90)
Kentucky: 4 (I-71, I-75, I-471, I-275)
Michigan: 1 (I-75)
Pennsylvania: 3 (I-76, I-80, I-90)
West Virginia: 3 (I-77, I-470, I-70)
Total: 16
IndianaIllinois: 6 (I-64, I-70, I-74, I-80, I-94, I-90)
Kentucky: 4 (I-64, I-65, I-265, I-275), +1 future (I-69)
Michigan: 2 (I-94, I-69)
Ohio: 5 (I-275, I-74, I-70, I-80, I-90)
Total: 17
IllinoisIndiana: 6 (I-64, I-70, I-74, I-80, I-94, I-90)
Iowa: 3 (I-280, I-74, I-80)
Kentucky: 1 (I-24)
Michigan: 0
Missouri: 7 (I-57, I-255, I-55, I-64, I-70, I-270, I-72)
Wisconsin: 3 (I-39, I-90, I-94)
Total: 20
MissouriArkansas: 1 (I-55), +1 future (I-49)
Illinois: 7 (I-57, I-255, I-55, I-64, I-70, I-270, I-72)
Iowa: 2 (I-29, I-35)
Kansas: 5 (I-435, I-35, I-70, I-635, I-435)
Kentucky: 0
Nebraska: 0
Oklahoma: 1 (I-44)
Tennessee: 1 (I-155)
Total: 17
Quote from: hbelkins on April 24, 2021, 10:28:43 PM
Has anyone compiled a list of borders with no interstate crossings?
I believe this is a complete list:
NY-VT
KY-VA
KY-MO
AR-MS
NC-GA
WI-MI
WI-IA
NE-MO
NE-SD
NE-KS
OK-CO
OK-NM
MT-SD
WY-ID
NV-ID
NV-OR
And if we're counting water-only borders, then add:
NY-RI
MI-MN
MI-IL
That's a total of 16 or 19, depending on how you count.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 24, 2021, 10:28:43 PM
Has anyone compiled a list of borders with no interstate crossings?
Kentucky has two -- no interstates between here and Missouri, and none between here and Virginia.
The most we have is five with Ohio -- two for 275, a shared crossing for 71 and 75, and 471 -- and they're all concentrated within a relatively few miles.
Doesn't one of the 275s come from Indiana?
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 25, 2021, 01:54:17 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 24, 2021, 10:28:43 PM
Has anyone compiled a list of borders with no interstate crossings?
Kentucky has two -- no interstates between here and Missouri, and none between here and Virginia.
The most we have is five with Ohio -- two for 275, a shared crossing for 71 and 75, and 471 -- and they're all concentrated within a relatively few miles.
Doesn't one of the 275s come from Indiana?
Yes
From my lists above for MO, IL, IN and OH, Kentucky is tied with 4 crossings each to Indiana and Ohio, but Indiana will take the lead after whenever the I-69 crossing opens. Not that long ago, Ohio had 1 more crossing from Kentucky than Indiana because the I-265 bridge didn't exist yet.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 25, 2021, 12:33:39 AM
It's kind of amazing how long the KS/NE border is, with no Interstate crossings at all.
As I believe was mentioned upthread, NE/SD is slightly longer. I-29 comes frightfully close near Sioux City, but squeaks into Iowa with only a mile to spare. It is very fitting that the only state with no N/S interstates is also the only state with
three interstate-free borders.
Quote from: webny99 on April 25, 2021, 01:51:11 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 24, 2021, 10:28:43 PM
Has anyone compiled a list of borders with no interstate crossings?
I believe this is a complete list:
NY-VT
KY-VA
KY-MO
WI-MI
WI-IA
NE-MO
NE-SD
NE-KS
OK-CO
OK-NM
MT-SD
WY-ID
NV-ID
NV-OR
And if we're counting water-only borders, then add:
NY-RI
MI-MN
That's a total of 15 or 17, depending on how you count.
Missed North Carolina/Georgia.
Quote from: webny99 on April 25, 2021, 01:51:11 PM
And if we're counting water-only borders, then add:
NY-RI
MI-MN
And IL-MI water-only border
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 23, 2021, 09:13:57 AM
Quote from: GaryV on April 22, 2021, 08:22:02 PM
You can find lists that have water area and land area for states.
When the water area is included for MI, it's larger than Utah.
Given that there's no real state or local authority that has access in the Great Lakes (kind of hard to get the State Police out there), law enforcement probably falls to the Coast Guard. Those law enforcement agencies that have boats - Detroit Police and Macomb County Sherriff as examples - primarily use them in near-shore waters for rescues and such.
Gotcha. I guess I never realized that included Great Lakes water too but that makes sense.
You'd probably be surprised to know that one of the busiest stations in all the Coast Guard is in Marblehead, Ohio.
Quote from: dkblake on April 28, 2021, 03:39:06 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 25, 2021, 02:30:39 PM
Quote from: dfilpus on April 25, 2021, 02:09:28 PM
Missed North Carolina/Georgia.
Quote from: GaryV on April 25, 2021, 02:27:13 PM
And IL-MI water-only border
Correct. Fixed.
One more- AR-MS.
Got it.
I knew there'd be a few I missed, but I figured at least putting a list out there would be as sure a way as any to end up with a complete list! :)
Quote from: GaryV on April 22, 2021, 12:43:58 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 21, 2021, 11:55:47 PM
An interesting question 3 might be, for each state, what is the longest stretch of state line between crossings? i.e. measuring from one Interstate to the next along that state's boundaries.
Michigan: Start at I-94 going into IN. Continue to and up the middle of Lake Michigan, into Green Bay (the bay, not the city), along the MI/WI land border, up around Isle Royale, over to the St Marys River, down Lake Huron through to Lake Erie, around the corner along the Ohio border and end where I-75 crosses the line.
Montana along its northern borders is probably even longer.
No interstate crosses international boundaries. By your logic, the longest stretch of a state boundary without interstates would be Alaska which has a border of over 1500 miles with Canada.
Quote from: skluth on April 28, 2021, 06:53:21 PM
Quote from: GaryV on April 22, 2021, 12:43:58 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 21, 2021, 11:55:47 PM
An interesting question 3 might be, for each state, what is the longest stretch of state line between crossings? i.e. measuring from one Interstate to the next along that state's boundaries.
Michigan: Start at I-94 going into IN. Continue to and up the middle of Lake Michigan, into Green Bay (the bay, not the city), along the MI/WI land border, up around Isle Royale, over to the St Marys River, down Lake Huron through to Lake Erie, around the corner along the Ohio border and end where I-75 crosses the line.
Montana along its northern borders is probably even longer.
No interstate crosses international boundaries. By your logic, the longest stretch of a state boundary without interstates would be Alaska which has a border of over 1500 miles with Canada.
If we count nation-states then the Russia-Kazakstan border has no Interstates crossing it. Then again, neither does the US-Canada border so that would win.