US route endpoints in Cleveland (now that Public Square is closed to traffic)

[usends]

Historically, US 422 came from the south on Ontario, ending at Superior.  But that movement is no longer possible, now that Ontario has been vacated through the Square.  So has ODOT updated their route logs or straight-line-diagrams to reflect a new terminus for US 422?

Also, my understanding is that US 42 and US 322 shared a common terminus one block east of there, at Superior and East Roadway.  That's still possible, although US 42 would have to use Roadway to get there, since Superior is open only to bus traffic through the Square.  But again, has ODOT changed their definition for US 42 and/or US 322?

[usends]

I found the SLDs online, and each of the three routes are still shown to end at the historic locations.  However, the webpage notes that the SLDs are current only to 2009, so since Public Square wasn't modified until 2015, I emailed the contact person at ODOT.  I received a timely and well-informed response.  Apparently they have been waiting on a "journal entry" and some other information, which they now have, and they plan to update the information sometime this year.

Where should the routes end?  US 42 could be truncated to W. 25th at Detroit (where it junctions US 6-20).  US 322 could be truncated to E. 13th at Superior (where it junctions US 6).  But US 422 should probably continue to go all the way to Public Square.  And if that's the case, then I guess I would prefer to see US 42 and US 322 continue all the way to Public Square as well, partly for historical reasons, and partly because that's the center of the city.  Presumably each route would have to terminate at Roadway (the outer perimeter of Public Square), so then you'd have three endpoints one block apart from each other.

[thenetwork]

I know determining a new start/endpoint for all terminating routes at Public Square is like picking nits, but I would be all for making the East Roadway/Superior Avenue intersection the official point for everything. 

Id hate to "officially" say that to get from, say US-422 to US-42 you have to go "East" On US-6/US-20 one block to US-20 "West" around the rest of the square to get to US-42.

[AcE_Wolf_287]

Historically, US 422 came from the south on Ontario, ending at Superior.  But that movement is no longer possible, now that Ontario has been vacated through the Square.  So has ODOT updated their route logs or straight-line-diagrams to reflect a new terminus for US 422?

Also, my understanding is that US 42 and US 322 shared a common terminus one block east of there, at Superior and East Roadway.  That's still possible, although US 42 would have to use Roadway to get there, since Superior is open only to bus traffic through the Square.  But again, has ODOT changed their definition for US 42 and/or US 322?

Before US 21 was eliminated, didn't US 422 and US 21 have a Concurrency to Current I-77 or to East 55th Street where I-490 Ends, and also why does US 322 start at US 6/US 20 at the Traffic circle, but doesn't follow US 20, it parallels it to the north and then intersects in East cleveland

[zzcarp]

Historically, US 422 came from the south on Ontario, ending at Superior.  But that movement is no longer possible, now that Ontario has been vacated through the Square.  So has ODOT updated their route logs or straight-line-diagrams to reflect a new terminus for US 422?

Also, my understanding is that US 42 and US 322 shared a common terminus one block east of there, at Superior and East Roadway.  That's still possible, although US 42 would have to use Roadway to get there, since Superior is open only to bus traffic through the Square.  But again, has ODOT changed their definition for US 42 and/or US 322?

Before US 21 was eliminated, didn't US 422 and US 21 have a Concurrency to Current I-77 or to East 55th Street where I-490 Ends, and also why does US 322 start at US 6/US 20 at the Traffic circle, but doesn't follow US 20, it parallels it to the north and then intersects in East cleveland

US 21 and US 422 were concurrent from Public Square along Ontario Street until US 21 turned on Broadway and Broadway south to E. 71st Street (and later to what is now the I-77 freeway). This intersection is approximately where Eagle/Ontario meet near Jacob's Field and Carnegie. This pre-innerbelt map shows the tripoint and Ohio 10's historical endpoint. After the Innerbelt was built, Ontario Street was extended and the Broadway split was east of the innerbelt. Following today's Ohio 14 from downtown approximates the historical routing. US 21 was decommissioned in Ohio in late 1967.

Regarding US 322, Chester Avenue did not exist when the 1926 routes were created. If look at this 1927 Ohio map, the Cleveland insert clearly shows (via bolded lines) US 322 using Mayfield to Euclid downtown while US 6-20 follow Superior west of Euclid Ave. This routing is confirmed on the 1940 map where US 6-20 are clearly signed on Superior and US 322 signed on Euclid with Alt. US 6-20.  The 1950 map was the first to show US 322 following its current Chester Ave. routing.

Interestingly, Euclid had the Alt. US 6-20 routing shown through the 1964 map. By the 1967 map, also the last one to show US 21, US 20 was on its current Euclid routing and US 6 was alone on its Superior routing to Public Square.

[Mr. Matté]

The most current ODOT files appear to be on this GIS viewer still has the roads going up Ontario through the square:

Interestingly enough, the southbound/westbound direction of travel on the roads around the square are technically county roads.

The other place where it could be verified is the DESTAPE files, last updated in 2017. In checking all the roads that begin/end here based on the coordinates provided, (5) still end in the center and (3) end at the northeast edge midpoint.

[thenetwork]

Before US 21 was eliminated, didn't US 422 and US 21 have a Concurrency to Current I-77 or to East 55th Street where I-490 Ends, and also why does US 322 start at US 6/US 20 at the Traffic circle, but doesn't follow US 20, it parallels it to the north and then intersects in East cleveland

US 21 and US 422 were concurrent from Public Square along Ontario Street until US 21 turned on Broadway and Broadway south to E. 71st Street (and later to what is now the I-77 freeway). This intersection is approximately where Eagle/Ontario meet near Jacob's Field and Carnegie. This pre-innerbelt map shows the tripoint and Ohio 10's historical endpoint. After the Innerbelt was built, Ontario Street was extended and the Broadway split was east of the innerbelt. Following today's Ohio 14 from downtown approximates the historical routing. US 21 was decommissioned in Ohio in late 1967.

Regarding US 322, Chester Avenue did not exist when the 1926 routes were created. If look at this 1927 Ohio map, the Cleveland insert clearly shows (via bolded lines) US 322 using Mayfield to Euclid downtown while US 6-20 follow Superior west of Euclid Ave. This routing is confirmed on the 1940 map where US 6-20 are clearly signed on Superior and US 322 signed on Euclid with Alt. US 6-20.  The 1950 map was the first to show US 322 following its current Chester Ave. routing.

Interestingly, Euclid had the Alt. US 6-20 routing shown through the 1964 map. By the 1967 map, also the last one to show US 21, US 20 was on its current Euclid routing and US 6 was alone on its Superior routing to Public Square.

US-21 was decommissioned in and around 1976 after the final portion of I-77 was completed between Canal Road and Rockside Road.   Another major link of I-77 that opened in (IIRC) the early 70s was the section over modern day I-490.  Prior to that, the Willow Freeway (US-21 and later I-77) ended north of Fleet Avenue -- traffic dumped onto East 49th Street then north to Broadway -- in the early 50s.  By the late 50's, the Willow Freeway was extended to Broadway, just north of Pershing.

As far as US-322 being on its own down Chester Avenue, again IIRC, Chester was "upgraded" to a poor man's limited-access "expressway", with fewer cross street intersections and businesses east of E. 55th St, sometime in the 50's/early 60's, while it's paralleling US-route neighbors (US-20/Euclid and US-6/Superior Avenues) remained full-service streets.

[mrsman]

Here's a cool aerial view of Public Square:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4995541,-81.693718,3a,75y,20.89h,18.06t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipNW8jq7pb0RcUR_QUCmn7e2eUms1_CWMKk7Gyyw!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipNW8jq7pb0RcUR_QUCmn7e2eUms1_CWMKk7Gyyw%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya151.56439-ro-0-fo100!7i4096!8i2048

In my belief any highway that terminates at Public Square should terminate when it first intersects with on of the Roadways.  So roads from the west end at W Roadway, roads from the south end at S Roadway, and roads from the east end at E Roadway.  Each of those points will still intersect with US 6 and US 20 (and maybe other roads), as both US 6 and US 20 will be routed all the way around Public Square to continue to the other side.

In a way this should be viewed as a traffic circle, where a public road will end where if first intersects the traffic circle.

And some new signage would be needed to reflect all of this.