Yield sign at a right on red

[epzik8]

So red always means stop, be it a stop sign, red light or red arrow. Yield means you only have to stop if there is any oncoming traffic. We have right on red in Maryland, and there is a ramp from the end of Rogers Street in Aberdeen to MD 22. This is a tie-in from the access point to Rogers Street from US 40. I took this ramp from US 40 to MD 22 to go east on MD 22 since I only learned after the fact that the other ramp from US 40 east leads directly to MD 22 east. There was a red light at the end of the ramp, but also a yield sign there. You can turn onto either direction of MD 22 since it's assumed that you're coming from Rogers Street. Does right on red apply here, or is the yield sign the control device for right turns?

[webny99]

Just to make sure I follow... is this the location/direction you're talking about?
If so, I guess the yield sign overrides the signal, meaning you can go on red without stopping if it's clear.
But even if it's not clear, you've got your own lane... so essentially the yield sign exists to make sure you know you're allowed to turn without stopping.

I've got one worse though... a stop sign on the NY 104 off-ramp at NY 250. As weird as a yield sign might be, a stop sign is 10 times more egregious.

[mrsman]

The paint on the intersection in Aberdeen is essentially equivalent to what a cement island would do.  That demarcation, in my mind, makes it clear that the yield sign will control.  The practical difference is that no stop is required to make the right turn, if there is no cross traffic.

The example that webny99 brings an unfortunate situation.  A yield sign would be better than a stop sign, unless there is a history of accidents to show that the stop sign is necessary.  There would be no good reason to come to a complete stop here, especially if the signal for adjacent traffic is green.

A better compromise might be a signal to control the right turn, that would be flashing red arrow or solid red orb (to encourage full stop) or flashing yellow (to encourage yielding) when adjacent traffic has the red (and you have to stop or yield to cross traffic), and a green arrow when the right is protected while the adjacent traffic has green.  To the extent there is any pedestrian crossing at that point, the pedestrain signals can be coordinated so as not to be in conflict with the right turn.  Yes, a better solution, but an added signal means $$$.

[kphoger]

How about a stop sign, a yield sign, and a light?

[Revive 755]

Just to make sure I follow... is this the location/direction you're talking about?
If so, I guess the yield sign overrides the signal, meaning you can go on red without stopping if it's clear.
But even if it's not clear, you've got your own lane... so essentially the yield sign exists to make sure you know you're allowed to turn without stopping.

I've got one worse though... a stop sign on the NY 104 off-ramp at NY 250. As weird as a yield sign might be, a stop sign is 10 times more egregious.

I strongly suspect Wisconsin has a few of those, given how much they like to put stop signs for right turns at normal signalized intersections.

[Revive 755]

NB Cut Street at IL 140 in East Alton used to have two yield signs, and a near signal right head that conflicted with the yield signs.

[Brian556]

NB FM 2499 at FM 3040 in Flower Mound. A yield sign conflicts with a five-light right turn head:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.013306,-97.0707931,3a,22y,25.57h,89.02t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sdLs5gy0_bvyxw6sGg45ZNA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DdLs5gy0_bvyxw6sGg45ZNA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D74.90706%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

[mapman]

Back in the 1980's and 1990's, Santa Clara County (California) also signed a few of its channelized right turns at traffic signals along its expressways with stop signs.  The one that I remember most vividly is northbound Lawrence Expressway at Reed Avenue - Monroe Street on the border of Sunnyvale and Santa Clara.  It's since been changed to a Yield sign.   

[jeffandnicole]

So red always means stop, be it a stop sign, red light or red arrow. Yield means you only have to stop if there is any oncoming traffic. We have right on red in Maryland

All states have right on red, and have had it since 1978 or so.

...and there is a ramp from the end of Rogers Street in Aberdeen to MD 22. This is a tie-in from the access point to Rogers Street from US 40...There was a red light at the end of the ramp, but also a yield sign there. You can turn onto either direction of MD 22 since it's assumed that you're coming from Rogers Street. Does right on red apply here, or is the yield sign the control device for right turns?

Assuming webny99's GSV link is correct, there's a clear right turn channelization, and there's no stop line (heck, there's no yield line either).  The traffic signal is also clearly facing the left turn lane.  About the most egregious conditions here is the tightness of that right turn, which could cause some traffic to veer into the thru lane.

While many right turns with yields have a raised porkchop median, that's not always the case and similar conditions can be found elsewhere.  A few other examples in Maryland:
https://goo.gl/maps/1x2mzK9fp9SkS5No6
https://goo.gl/maps/qpEcEMEj5WhXFH6t5

[jakeroot]

Here's the opposite:

There seems to be a couple right turn slip lanes in Kent, WA that have yield signs (and operate as a yield), but there are supplemental signs that say "RIGHT TURN ON RED MUST YIELD TO U-TURN": Example 1, Example 2 (no yield sign visible but probably not signal-controlled).



And then closer to what the OP may have had in mind:

In SeaTac, WA, there is a right turn with a 5-section tower (to allow overlapping right turns), but the movement also has a yield sign. The signal came later, but the yield sign was upgraded with retroreflective tape mid-construction.

[kphoger]

And then closer to what the OP may have had in mind:

In SeaTac, WA, there is a right turn with a 5-section tower (to allow overlapping right turns), but the movement also has a yield sign. The signal came later, but the yield sign was upgraded with retroreflective tape mid-construction.

Seeing that painted splitter island, I'd turn right without stopping.  That splitter island along with the Yield sign, in my estimation, makes the movement separate from that governed by the signal.

[deathtopumpkins]

I've got one worse though... a stop sign on the NY 104 off-ramp at NY 250. As weird as a yield sign might be, a stop sign is 10 times more egregious.

Another example, in Nashua, NH: https://goo.gl/maps/TrKNwb7gQfTxLTTr6
Stop sign on a right turn slip lane at a signalized intersection. Incredibly frustrating.

[kphoger]

I've got one worse though... a stop sign on the NY 104 off-ramp at NY 250. As weird as a yield sign might be, a stop sign is 10 times more egregious.

Another example, in Nashua, NH: https://goo.gl/maps/TrKNwb7gQfTxLTTr6
Stop sign on a right turn slip lane at a signalized intersection. Incredibly frustrating.

So, even when the light is green, right-turning traffic still has to stop.  Brilliant.

[deathtopumpkins]

I've got one worse though... a stop sign on the NY 104 off-ramp at NY 250. As weird as a yield sign might be, a stop sign is 10 times more egregious.

Another example, in Nashua, NH: https://goo.gl/maps/TrKNwb7gQfTxLTTr6
Stop sign on a right turn slip lane at a signalized intersection. Incredibly frustrating.

So, even when the light is green, right-turning traffic still has to stop.  Brilliant.

Compliance is, unsurprisingly, poor.

EDIT: Apparently we even already have a thread on this situation: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=23935.0

[jakeroot]

^^^^
Yeah, I was gonna say that I did make a thread for it.

Annoyingly, they are quite common in parts of the west. California is a big-time abuser of them.

And then closer to what the OP may have had in mind:

In SeaTac, WA, there is a right turn with a 5-section tower (to allow overlapping right turns), but the movement also has a yield sign. The signal came later, but the yield sign was upgraded with retroreflective tape mid-construction.

Seeing that painted splitter island, I'd turn right without stopping.  That splitter island along with the Yield sign, in my estimation, makes the movement separate from that governed by the signal.

Where I get thrown a little is the solid stop line. If it's a yield, why did they paint a stop line? I've seen this done elsewhere in WA, but not for a very long time (with the few existing examples only existing because they keep repainting the stop bar rather than changing them to sharks teeth).

Also, given the cost and setup required for those overlapping turn signals, I would think the yield has to be a mistake. There's no way they'd go through all of that just to use a yield sign instead.

The big issue, however, is that the "yield maneuver" points directly at a signalized crossing. This isn't allowed. The yield sign must be a mistake.

[kphoger]

What does WA do for a typical Yield slip with marked crosswalk?

[US71]

I know of only one place in my town that has a yield and red light. It's Zero St at 271, and it's only Eastbound.
https://goo.gl/maps/JyfmZbnEW9xzfHz67

[jakeroot]

What does WA do for a typical Yield slip with marked crosswalk?

Either no markings at all, or sharks teeth.

British Columbia, if anything is used at all, uses dashed lines along the edge of the merge point to denote a bike lane. But the main indicator of a yield in BC is that the crosswalk across the slip lane is zebra style. Approaches for signals are continental style (example). Dashes without bike lanes are sometimes used as well, but are decidedly less common.

At any rate, stop lines are not used (normally, at least), unless that slip lane is signal or stop controlled.

[kphoger]

Either no markings at all, or sharks teeth.

Those shark's teeth aren't before the crosswalk, so they're not really what I was getting at.  But at least it confirms WA uses shark's teeth for yield-controlled slips in general.  I thought that might be the case, just didn't know if they were in use in advance of the crosswalk.

[jakeroot]

Either no markings at all, or sharks teeth.

Those shark's teeth aren't before the crosswalk, so they're not really what I was getting at.  But at least it confirms WA uses shark's teeth for yield-controlled slips in general.  I thought that might be the case, just didn't know if they were in use in advance of the crosswalk.

I think they're supposed to be used before the crosswalk, but in practice, seem to be used after it instead. Although 'after' makes more sense to me, since crosswalks themselves are supposed to be a yield device (as in: this is a marked crosswalk so yield to anyone in it -- assuming it isn't signal controlled). The two examples with stop bars that I linked to were both built around the same time frame (early 2000s) and in the same city, hence why I think they're using identical markings.

Here is a very similar situation to my example in SeaTac. This is in Federal Way. No yield sign. The visibility of the signal is terrible, but since the right turn would be across not just one but two signalized crossings, it couldn't possibly be a yield situation.

[STLmapboy]

I know of only one place in my town that has a yield and red light. It's Zero St at 271, and it's only Eastbound.
https://goo.gl/maps/JyfmZbnEW9xzfHz67

Yikes, that signal is hanging on by a thread. I thought it was painted red at first but it looks like rust. The signal placement is also excessively poor. Sorry to stray off topic a bit.

[US71]

I know of only one place in my town that has a yield and red light. It's Zero St at 271, and it's only Eastbound.
https://goo.gl/maps/JyfmZbnEW9xzfHz67

Yikes, that signal is hanging on by a thread. I thought it was painted red at first but it looks like rust. The signal placement is also excessively poor. Sorry to stray off topic a bit.

No worries. They were upgraded and replaced last year. 

271 is still split NB then SB, but the signals are now 4 lights R-Y-G-Green Arrow.

[ErmineNotyours]

(There might be a more recent yield sign thread that I can't find at the moment, but I'll post this here.)

And then there's this: Yield, except right turn.  I wonder if the banner is necessary, or if motorists would figure it out and keep moving.  The dashed double yellow lines are guiding the driver to the right anyway.

[jakeroot]

(There might be a more recent yield sign thread that I can't find at the moment, but I'll post this here.)

And then there's this: Yield, except right turn.  I wonder if the banner is necessary, or if motorists would figure it out and keep moving.  The dashed double yellow lines are guiding the driver to the right anyway.

I suppose using it there is technically no different than if you were to post a yield sign in every T-junction with an "except straight" supplementary plaque.

Still, I can see why they used it.

[Big John]

I would have put a curve connecting the straight and right roads then intersect the left road to it at a 90-degree angle as the major traffic pattern seems to take the curve ad the left road take a stop sign.