Exit Tabs & Gore Signage

[SkyPesos]

There's a lot of ways to tell which exit is a left one:
- Placement of an exit tab
- The side the number is on for a full length non-centered
- The 'LEFT' banner introduced in 2009
- Placement of the whole sign
- Arrow(s)
- A lot of drivers drive with a GPS through unfamiliar areas nowadays anyways.

[kphoger]

- A lot of drivers drive with a GPS through unfamiliar areas nowadays anyways.

Don't those often not alert you to a left-side exit until you're nearly at the gore point?

[jakeroot]

- A lot of drivers drive with a GPS through unfamiliar areas nowadays anyways.

Don't those often not alert you to a left-side exit until you're nearly at the gore point?

I recall seeing either a left arrow, or "use the left lane to ..."

[SkyPesos]

- A lot of drivers drive with a GPS through unfamiliar areas nowadays anyways.

Don't those often not alert you to a left-side exit until you're nearly at the gore point?

I recall seeing either a left arrow, or "use the left lane to ..."

I just did a dummy search on google maps to a nearby place that uses a left exit. For the visuals, there are 2 left pointing arrows next to the exit number, and the APL display for the exit shows the exit lanes. I think the voice also says "use the left X lanes..."

[kphoger]

Cool, thanks.  I've never used such a device, so I was curious.

[cbeach40]

Didn't Ontario removed the 'EXIT' word to satisfy the French speakers in the province?

Also, I'm not sure how common this is state wide, but I took a look at 401 in Toronto, and half of the BGS (or is it called a BBS because it's blue?) either don't have an exit tab, or have a Caltrans style exit tab. Specifically the final overhead (normally non-APL) sign before the ramp split. However, the exit gore signs are consistent with including the exit number.

On the tabs yes, it was removed about thirty or so years ago for bilingualism and for a cleaner design.
Advance signs get an exit tab, exit signs do not. I have mixed feelings on that, there's pros and cons to it.

[jakeroot]

Didn't Ontario removed the 'EXIT' word to satisfy the French speakers in the province?

Also, I'm not sure how common this is state wide, but I took a look at 401 in Toronto, and half of the BGS (or is it called a BBS because it's blue?) either don't have an exit tab, or have a Caltrans style exit tab. Specifically the final overhead (normally non-APL) sign before the ramp split. However, the exit gore signs are consistent with including the exit number.

On the tabs yes, it was removed about thirty or so years ago for bilingualism and for a cleaner design.
Advance signs get an exit tab, exit signs do not. I have mixed feelings on that, there's pros and cons to it.

I think for the actual exit, having at least the gore sign may be sufficient. But I'm so used to seeing the exit tab overhead at the exit that I hardly ever use that gore sign anyways. Maybe it's more heavily utilized in Ontario. Haven't driven east of Alberta so I couldn't say personally.

[vdeane]

What exactly is the pro to omitting the exit tab at the exit, beyond the marginal savings from not having to manufacture and mount it?  Seems to me like it's just an inconsistency (and annoying, too, especially when taking photos and the advance sign didn't come out; in most places, you then have a second chance down the road, but not in Ontario!).

[ran4sh]

There's a lot of ways to tell which exit is a left one:
- Placement of an exit tab
- The side the number is on for a full length non-centered
- The 'LEFT' banner introduced in 2009
- Placement of the whole sign
- Arrow(s)
- A lot of drivers drive with a GPS through unfamiliar areas nowadays anyways.

There are a few states such as CA, NV, that sometimes place one of the advance signs on the left even if the exit is on the right. And in NJ on the NJ Turnpike, under their old signage standards, in the dual-dual section, it was considered sufficient to place one advance sign in the median between the car-only and the car-truck lanes, and that sign applied to both roadways. (Even though the exit would be to the right from each roadway)

[andrepoiy]

I'd say that exit numbers aren't really taken seriously by Ontario, at least in the Toronto area.

Highway 427 has no exit numbers (despite the southern portion of it being the third busiest in North America) and is only getting them after the new extension opens very soon.
Highway 409 also has no exit numbers (although it's short enough).
Although not by the province, both the Gardiner and DVP also had no exit numbers until recently.

There are also some exits that do not get an advanced sign, and therefore there is no signed exit number until the gore.

One example: Highway 401 Eastbound to Highway 400, in the Express, it lacks an advanced sign and instead uses a pull-through sign where an advanced sign would usually be. For some reason, they did put an exit number on the Collector exit.



From the westbound exit (collectors only, there is no express exit), they don't have a exit number on any sign except the gore sign.



Another example: On northbound 400, the Steeles Avenue exit also lacks the traditional advanced sign that show the lanes, and instead gets this 500m sign. No exit number until the gore.




Here's one which I believe should NOT have an exit sign. The reason is that this exit leads to a short collector carriageway that services two interchanges (Highway 7, exit 29, and Langstaff Road, exit 31). However, the sign that indicates this exit is only exit 29.



Another missing exit number, southbound 404.

[JoePCool14]

So that basically makes Ontario the Caltrans of the North then, right?

[andrepoiy]

So that basically makes Ontario the Caltrans of the North then, right?

I guess so, except that it's more inconsistency rather than outright not signing them

[ClassicHasClass]

No, inconsistency is pretty much Caltrans. We have exit numbers, but not everywhere, and not consistently.

[roadfro]

There's a lot of ways to tell which exit is a left one:
- Placement of an exit tab
- The side the number is on for a full length non-centered
- The 'LEFT' banner introduced in 2009
- Placement of the whole sign
- Arrow(s)
- A lot of drivers drive with a GPS through unfamiliar areas nowadays anyways.

There are a few states such as CA, NV, that sometimes place one of the advance signs on the left even if the exit is on the right. And in NJ on the NJ Turnpike, under their old signage standards, in the dual-dual section, it was considered sufficient to place one advance sign in the median between the car-only and the car-truck lanes, and that sign applied to both roadways. (Even though the exit would be to the right from each roadway)

California places advance guide signs on the left more frequently that probably ideal...typically, it tends to be in order to make use of an existing sign structure for the opposing direction (even if the sign placement would put it *over* the opposing lanes).

But there's only two instances of this in Nevada that I'm aware of, both in Las Vegas. The first, I-515/US 95 NB approaching Boulder Hwy, has been around for decades and I can't really explain why it was done that way. The second, US 95 NB approaching Summerlin Pkwy & Rainbow Blvd dates to the widening of US 95 about 15 years ago, and is likely because there is a retaining wall on the right side of the roadway and an exit ramp right adjacent, making it easier engineering to place this sign in the median. Any other advance exit sign posted on the left side is for a left-hand HOV exit.

[Scott5114]

California places advance guide signs on the left more frequently that probably ideal...typically, it tends to be in order to make use of an existing sign structure for the opposing direction (even if the sign placement would put it *over* the opposing lanes).

Kansas tends to reserve this kind of sign placement for next-three-exit menus, which works well, in my opinion.

[SkyPesos]

California places advance guide signs on the left more frequently that probably ideal...typically, it tends to be in order to make use of an existing sign structure for the opposing direction (even if the sign placement would put it *over* the opposing lanes).

Kansas tends to reserve this kind of sign placement for next-three-exit menus, which works well, in my opinion.

Missouri does too, at least in the St Louis area. Not sure about the rest of the state. I like the next 3 exits sign, kind of wish they use those more in Ohio and other places.

[roadfro]

California places advance guide signs on the left more frequently that probably ideal...typically, it tends to be in order to make use of an existing sign structure for the opposing direction (even if the sign placement would put it *over* the opposing lanes).

Kansas tends to reserve this kind of sign placement for next-three-exit menus, which works well, in my opinion.

It's more common to see the interchange sequence signs ("next three exits" signs) on the left in California, but there are the sporadic advance guide signs on the left too. It's also not incredibly uncommon to see interchange sequence posted overhead on the *right* in California...

[stevashe]

In reality, drivers just follow the arrow.

Absolutely. Of course there is the whole issue of determining lane choice before an exit (where there are no arrows, except at APLs). But that is usually clear by the horizontal placement of the sign: off to the left? Probably a left exit. Off to the right? Likely a right exit.

...unless you've decided that your two VMSs must be right justified leaving the only room to place your right side exit sign over the left shoulder! At least they included "right" in the action message 

As mentioned before, Washington State uses inset exit tabs with centered legends. As far as I know, we are the only state still using centered exit legends. I'm kind of indifferent on the matter. The signs are very clean, to be sure, but it doesn't always work (APLs, diagrammatic signs).

It should be noted however, that the whole state does not use the full width tabs any more, WSDOT Southwest Region has switched to standard right aligned tabs, which I do not prefer, but can tolerate. What I'm not okay with is that they also started using numberless exit gore signs with tabs above at the same time, which are very ugly imo. (And also likely not MUTCD compliant.)

As for APLs, I think a design similar to this would work just fine: https://goo.gl/maps/RqkDWRBRWuXVmQ2q9

[SkyPesos]

As for APLs, I think a design similar to this would work just fine: https://goo.gl/maps/RqkDWRBRWuXVmQ2q9

The horizontal length for that sign is a bit too short for my liking. If you're in either lane from the center, it looks like there's two arrows pointing at one lane.

[stevashe]

As for APLs, I think a design similar to this would work just fine: https://goo.gl/maps/RqkDWRBRWuXVmQ2q9

The horizontal length for that sign is a bit too short for my liking. If you're in either lane from the center, it looks like there's two arrows pointing at one lane.

I was referring to the design of the exit tab only, not the rest of the sign. I might draw up a proper APL version to better demonstrate the idea when I have time.

[stevashe]

Here's my mock-up of an APL with a WSDOT style "Full Width" exit tab using the Exit 164 sign linked above.

[tolbs17]

Here's one in New Jersey. However, the ones on the parkway and turnpike are not the same as these. So it appears they use the same types of signs that Ohio uses.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8644413,-75.1007709,3a,64.2y,364.67h,94.54t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sJluGa1yzoCAw_dkuEPkuIA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DJluGa1yzoCAw_dkuEPkuIA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D158.55573%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

[SkyPesos]

Here's one in New Jersey. However, the ones on the parkway and turnpike are not the same as these. So it appears they use the same types of signs that Ohio uses.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8644413,-75.1007709,3a,64.2y,364.67h,94.54t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sJluGa1yzoCAw_dkuEPkuIA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DJluGa1yzoCAw_dkuEPkuIA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D158.55573%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

Too much spacing between the left/right edges and the letters/numbers to be the same type as OH/MN/MO's exit tabs.

[tolbs17]

Here's one in New Jersey. However, the ones on the parkway and turnpike are not the same as these. So it appears they use the same types of signs that Ohio uses.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8644413,-75.1007709,3a,64.2y,364.67h,94.54t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sJluGa1yzoCAw_dkuEPkuIA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DJluGa1yzoCAw_dkuEPkuIA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D158.55573%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

Too much spacing between the left/right edges and the letters/numbers to be the same type as Ohio's exit tabs.

Ah I see so where does it fall under?

____________________________________

Now looking at North Carolina's exit tabs, these are rare and unique and uglier compared to what most signs are. The letters EXIT and numbers are spaced out... But these signs will be replaced when the highway gets rehabbed.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.8685648,-78.5557226,3a,28.7y,317.7h,103.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-cdcP0H-ffK2nuucECKz1g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[Mergingtraffic]

Speaking of Exit tabs, how come LOGO service signs or park and ride BGSs don't use exit tabs on average.  I know some states do but most do not?

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