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Toll Tag Compatibility

Started by ZLoth, April 05, 2021, 02:13:16 AM

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ZLoth

I'm planning some post-Covid road trips from the DFW area to the East Coast. The problem I'm having is that the Texas Toll Tags (NTTA, EZTag, TXTag) is only compatible with the Oklahoma (PikePass) and Kansas (K-Tag) tolling system. The GeauxPass in Louisiana isn't in the system. I would love to pay the lower toll rate for having an electronic tag rather than the inflated Plate Fee. Can I just affix temporarily a EZ-Pass or SunPass sticker, or will that cause a conflict with the toll systems?
I'm an Engineer. That means I solve problems. Not problems like "What is beauty?", because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems and call them "paychecks".


Scott5114

#1
EZ-Pass and TxTag/Pikepass/KTAG use completely different protocols so don't I think there should be any conflict. (Thus why there's TxTag in Oklahoma and Kansas but not in EZ-Passland–Texas's transponders speak the same language as OK and KS, so at that point it was just a matter of signing agreements and linking databases.)
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

oscar

I've had both a TxTag sticker and an EZ-Pass hard-case transponder (not sticker) on my pickup truck's windshield (outside TxTag territory-- in TxTag territory, I dismounted and wrapped the EZ-Pass in aluminum foil), with no noticeable interference. I'd be more worried about whether TxTag and SunPass stickers can peaceably coexist, but I don't have a firm basis for my worry.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

1995hoo

As Oscar notes, E-ZPass is not a sticker.

If you want a single transponder for the East Coast, look into the Uni transponder from the Central Florida Expressway Authority–it's a hard case device compatible with both E-ZPass and SunPass. I have no idea whether it might interfere with TxTag.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

RoadWarrior56

I have ranted on this subject before.  But all of the toll transponder systems nationwide should be compatible, period.  I live in GA and have a Peach Pass, and I used to routinely travel to southern Indiana across from Louisville when my father was still alive, and continuously had to pay twice as much as to cross the Ohio River than I should have needed to, because of the lack of compatibility.  Even in 2015, I took a trip to Florida and barely half of the automated toll cameras on the Florida Turnpike even could read my Peach Pass, even though both systems were supposedly compatible.  After this many years, there is no excuse.

SkyPesos

As for which state's E-ZPass to get, there was a thread here recently discussing that, in case you want to know about that too.

1995hoo

Quote from: SkyPesos on April 05, 2021, 08:22:09 AM
As for which state's E-ZPass to get, there was a thread here recently discussing that, in case you want to know about that too.

I believe there have been a couple of discussions on the Travel subforum, so the OP might want to look there. There is also a discussion I started in the Southeast subforum in 2011 that focuses strictly on SunPass issues applicable to people who already had E-ZPass transponders. That thread likely wouldn't help the OP here all that much. There might be other Uni-related discussions in various places; searching the forum for "Uni transponder" or either the terms "Uni" and "CFX" or "Uni" and "E-ZPass" would likely find those.

(The potential problem in using "E-ZPass" as a search term is that there is some variance in how people spell it. The way I've spelled it here is the correct spelling as used by the member agencies, but some people use "EZ-Pass" or "EZPass." Then there are the people–none of whom post on this forum, as far as I know!–who spell it "Easy Pass.")
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

vdeane

Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on April 05, 2021, 08:20:41 AM
Even in 2015, I took a trip to Florida and barely half of the automated toll cameras on the Florida Turnpike even could read my Peach Pass, even though both systems were supposedly compatible.  After this many years, there is no excuse.
If they're truly interoperable, why should the cameras be involved at all?  Shouldn't that be the job of the tag reader, not the licence plate cameras for toll by plate?
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

snowc

Quote from: vdeane on April 05, 2021, 11:30:59 AM
Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on April 05, 2021, 08:20:41 AM
Even in 2015, I took a trip to Florida and barely half of the automated toll cameras on the Florida Turnpike even could read my Peach Pass, even though both systems were supposedly compatible.  After this many years, there is no excuse.
If they're truly interoperable, why should the cameras be involved at all?  Shouldn't that be the job of the tag reader, not the licence plate cameras for toll by plate?
NC Quick Pass and EZPass are interoperable (partially). They (the user) need to cough up $7.40 plus tax and you will be on your merry way!  :clap:

vdeane

Quote from: snowc on April 05, 2021, 12:36:04 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 05, 2021, 11:30:59 AM
Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on April 05, 2021, 08:20:41 AM
Even in 2015, I took a trip to Florida and barely half of the automated toll cameras on the Florida Turnpike even could read my Peach Pass, even though both systems were supposedly compatible.  After this many years, there is no excuse.
If they're truly interoperable, why should the cameras be involved at all?  Shouldn't that be the job of the tag reader, not the licence plate cameras for toll by plate?
NC Quick Pass and EZPass are interoperable (partially). They (the user) need to cough up $7.40 plus tax and you will be on your merry way!  :clap:
What does that have to do with the interoperability (or apparent lack thereof) between Georgia and Florida?
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Joe The Dragon

Quote from: vdeane on April 05, 2021, 08:49:22 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 05, 2021, 12:36:04 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 05, 2021, 11:30:59 AM
Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on April 05, 2021, 08:20:41 AM
Even in 2015, I took a trip to Florida and barely half of the automated toll cameras on the Florida Turnpike even could read my Peach Pass, even though both systems were supposedly compatible.  After this many years, there is no excuse.
If they're truly interoperable, why should the cameras be involved at all?  Shouldn't that be the job of the tag reader, not the licence plate cameras for toll by plate?
NC Quick Pass and EZPass are interoperable (partially). They (the user) need to cough up $7.40 plus tax and you will be on your merry way!  :clap:
What does that have to do with the interoperability (or apparent lack thereof) between Georgia and Florida?

Now can some who get's in hit with an lot of big fines with an (partially) interoperability transponder fight it in court?
Even more so on an road the changes mid way from taking EZ-pass to non EZ-pass?  In systems with local names EZ-pass logo only shows up on some toll areas but it is system wide.


Scott5114

Quote from: vdeane on April 05, 2021, 08:49:22 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 05, 2021, 12:36:04 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 05, 2021, 11:30:59 AM
Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on April 05, 2021, 08:20:41 AM
Even in 2015, I took a trip to Florida and barely half of the automated toll cameras on the Florida Turnpike even could read my Peach Pass, even though both systems were supposedly compatible.  After this many years, there is no excuse.
If they're truly interoperable, why should the cameras be involved at all?  Shouldn't that be the job of the tag reader, not the licence plate cameras for toll by plate?
NC Quick Pass and EZPass are interoperable (partially). They (the user) need to cough up $7.40 plus tax and you will be on your merry way!  :clap:
What does that have to do with the interoperability (or apparent lack thereof) between Georgia and Florida?

Or specifically, about the question the guy actually asked, which is regarding interoperability between Texas and the east coast?

Quote from: Joe The Dragon on April 06, 2021, 11:50:41 AM
Now can some who get's in hit with an lot of big fines with an (partially) interoperability transponder fight it in court?
Even more so on an road the changes mid way from taking EZ-pass to non EZ-pass?  In systems with local names EZ-pass logo only shows up on some toll areas but it is system wide.

A transponder is either interoperable or it isn't, and that depends on whether the issuing agency (like, say, OTA if you have a Pikepass) and the agency responsible for the facility it is used on have signed an agreement. There's no way for a transponder to be "partially interoperable".
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

vdeane

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 06, 2021, 02:40:55 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 05, 2021, 08:49:22 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 05, 2021, 12:36:04 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 05, 2021, 11:30:59 AM
Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on April 05, 2021, 08:20:41 AM
Even in 2015, I took a trip to Florida and barely half of the automated toll cameras on the Florida Turnpike even could read my Peach Pass, even though both systems were supposedly compatible.  After this many years, there is no excuse.
If they're truly interoperable, why should the cameras be involved at all?  Shouldn't that be the job of the tag reader, not the licence plate cameras for toll by plate?
NC Quick Pass and EZPass are interoperable (partially). They (the user) need to cough up $7.40 plus tax and you will be on your merry way!  :clap:
What does that have to do with the interoperability (or apparent lack thereof) between Georgia and Florida?

Or specifically, about the question the guy actually asked, which is regarding interoperability between Texas and the east coast?
He wasn't replying to the OP, though... he was replying to my question on RoadWarrior56's comment, which is more general even though I only quoted the one part.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

1995hoo

#13
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 06, 2021, 02:40:55 PM
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on April 06, 2021, 11:50:41 AM
Now can some who get's in hit with an lot of big fines with an (partially) interoperability transponder fight it in court?
Even more so on an road the changes mid way from taking EZ-pass to non EZ-pass?  In systems with local names EZ-pass logo only shows up on some toll areas but it is system wide.

A transponder is either interoperable or it isn't, and that depends on whether the issuing agency (like, say, OTA if you have a Pikepass) and the agency responsible for the facility it is used on have signed an agreement. There's no way for a transponder to be "partially interoperable".

I think what he may be trying to address–"may be" because I'm not certain what exactly he meant–is the situation that prevails in Orlando, where CFX roads accept E-ZPass and FTE roads do not. It creates a very strange situation when a particular road, such as FL-417 or FL-429, is partially administered by each of those facilities–the CFX-operated toll collection points accept E-ZPass, but the FTE ones do not. See map linked below.

https://www.cfxway.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/08.01.18Map-of-CFX-Roads-Accepting-E-ZPassFinal-1.pdf

There are signs saying "End E-ZPass Accepted" or something similar where the operation changes., though I don't have time to look for one on Street View right now. It's still a very strange situation to have, though. (The other side of the road has a corresponding "Begin E-ZPass Accepted" sign.)
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

ran4sh

Quote from: vdeane on April 05, 2021, 11:30:59 AM
Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on April 05, 2021, 08:20:41 AM
Even in 2015, I took a trip to Florida and barely half of the automated toll cameras on the Florida Turnpike even could read my Peach Pass, even though both systems were supposedly compatible.  After this many years, there is no excuse.
If they're truly interoperable, why should the cameras be involved at all?  Shouldn't that be the job of the tag reader, not the licence plate cameras for toll by plate?

The cameras are how interoperability is achieved, apparently. (For FL, GA, NC interoperability) When a vehicle with GA Peach Pass uses a FL SunPass toll road, the SunPass equipment does not read the Peach Pass, but instead the cameras see the plate number and SunPass determines if that number is associated with a Peach Pass account.

That's why the FAQs for FL/GA/NC interoperability specify that out-of-system tolls will take longer than normal to show up in the user's account.
Control cities CAN be off the route! Control cities make NO sense if signs end before the city is reached!

Travel Mapping - Most Traveled: I-40, 20, 10, 5, 95 - Longest Clinched: I-20, 85, 24, 16, NJ Tpk mainline
Champions - UGA FB '21 '22 - Atlanta Braves '95 '21 - Atlanta MLS '18

vdeane

Quote from: ran4sh on April 06, 2021, 08:14:48 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 05, 2021, 11:30:59 AM
Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on April 05, 2021, 08:20:41 AM
Even in 2015, I took a trip to Florida and barely half of the automated toll cameras on the Florida Turnpike even could read my Peach Pass, even though both systems were supposedly compatible.  After this many years, there is no excuse.
If they're truly interoperable, why should the cameras be involved at all?  Shouldn't that be the job of the tag reader, not the licence plate cameras for toll by plate?

The cameras are how interoperability is achieved, apparently. (For FL, GA, NC interoperability) When a vehicle with GA Peach Pass uses a FL SunPass toll road, the SunPass equipment does not read the Peach Pass, but instead the cameras see the plate number and SunPass determines if that number is associated with a Peach Pass account.

That's why the FAQs for FL/GA/NC interoperability specify that out-of-system tolls will take longer than normal to show up in the user's account.
Yuck.  If they all use the same protocol, what's the point of the janky workaround?  Licence plate billing is prone to failure, so that hardly seems like something one would want to rely on.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Joe The Dragon

Quote from: 1995hoo on April 06, 2021, 02:53:29 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 06, 2021, 02:40:55 PM
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on April 06, 2021, 11:50:41 AM
Now can some who get's in hit with an lot of big fines with an (partially) interoperability transponder fight it in court?
Even more so on an road the changes mid way from taking EZ-pass to non EZ-pass?  In systems with local names EZ-pass logo only shows up on some toll areas but it is system wide.

A transponder is either interoperable or it isn't, and that depends on whether the issuing agency (like, say, OTA if you have a Pikepass) and the agency responsible for the facility it is used on have signed an agreement. There's no way for a transponder to be "partially interoperable".

I think what he may be trying to address–"may be" because I'm not certain what exactly he meant–is the situation that prevails in Orlando, where CFX roads accept E-ZPass and FTE roads do not. It creates a very strange situation when a particular road, such as FL-417 or FL-429, is partially administered by each of those facilities–the CFX-operated toll collection points accept E-ZPass, but the FTE ones do not. See map linked below.

https://www.cfxway.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/08.01.18Map-of-CFX-Roads-Accepting-E-ZPassFinal-1.pdf

There are signs saying "End E-ZPass Accepted" or something similar where the operation changes., though I don't have time to look for one on Street View right now. It's still a very strange situation to have, though. (The other side of the road has a corresponding "Begin E-ZPass Accepted" sign.)

There are differences with the HOV switches with differnt passes that may become an issue as more toll system join into an interoperable system.

or systems with an local only tag and an multi system tag.

Or hit an NC pass like issue say enter one state and see an E-ZPass and local state pass logo and on the other side of the state you see the local state logo and next state logo and think that if the state I just left takes E-zpass and the next state takes the pass from the one I just left then the next must take EZ-pass as well.

Now if Orlando you have an the AUTO TRAIN that takes you from an E-Zpass zone to an part E-Zpass one and if you see say EZ-pass and the local state logo then you may think that the full state takes E-Zpass and they just don't post the logo all over the place. Like how other E-Zpass system do Like IL toll way.

1995hoo

I'm well aware of the "HOV switch"–it's why I continue to have both E-ZPass Flex and SunPass instead of getting a Uni transponder. Might change that next year when I-66 changes to HOV-3 to ride free.

As for the rest of your comments, it seems to me it's user error for making unwarranted assumptions. The one scenario where I would make an exception to that statement is the roads around Orlando that I mentioned before that partially accept E-ZPass and partially don't. That's confusing and illogical, and it's somewhat unreasonable to expect motorists to know what part of the road is a CFX road and what part isn't. But just because the Auto Train goes to Orlando is no reason to assume E-ZPass is accepted statewide in Florida. Amtrak has nothing to do with toll transponders.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Joe The Dragon

Quote from: 1995hoo on April 07, 2021, 07:44:15 AM
I'm well aware of the "HOV switch"–it's why I continue to have both E-ZPass Flex and SunPass instead of getting a Uni transponder. Might change that next year when I-66 changes to HOV-3 to ride free.

As for the rest of your comments, it seems to me it's user error for making unwarranted assumptions. The one scenario where I would make an exception to that statement is the roads around Orlando that I mentioned before that partially accept E-ZPass and partially don't. That's confusing and illogical, and it's somewhat unreasonable to expect motorists to know what part of the road is a CFX road and what part isn't. But just because the Auto Train goes to Orlando is no reason to assume E-ZPass is accepted statewide in Florida. Amtrak has nothing to do with toll transponders.
Amtrak has nothing to do with toll transponders. But think of it as an long tunnel or something where the toll roads right near it are like the signs you see at the sate line / 1st toll on the road.
And you see the E-Zpass logo an long with the local ones and then assume that they all take E-Zpass.

ran4sh

Quote from: Joe The Dragon on April 07, 2021, 01:02:51 AM

or systems with an local only tag and an multi system tag.


The reason NC, Orlando, and Louisville do this is so that local-only users aren't forced to pay for an E-ZPass transponder that they aren't going to use anyway. If E-ZPass upgrades to sticker-type transponders (which are free and have no battery that can discharge), then NC/Orlando/Louisville would have no need to offer 2 types of transponder.
Control cities CAN be off the route! Control cities make NO sense if signs end before the city is reached!

Travel Mapping - Most Traveled: I-40, 20, 10, 5, 95 - Longest Clinched: I-20, 85, 24, 16, NJ Tpk mainline
Champions - UGA FB '21 '22 - Atlanta Braves '95 '21 - Atlanta MLS '18

snowc

Quote from: vdeane on April 05, 2021, 08:49:22 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 05, 2021, 12:36:04 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 05, 2021, 11:30:59 AM
Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on April 05, 2021, 08:20:41 AM
Even in 2015, I took a trip to Florida and barely half of the automated toll cameras on the Florida Turnpike even could read my Peach Pass, even though both systems were supposedly compatible.  After this many years, there is no excuse.
If they're truly interoperable, why should the cameras be involved at all?  Shouldn't that be the job of the tag reader, not the licence plate cameras for toll by plate?
NC Quick Pass and EZPass are interoperable (partially). They (the user) need to cough up $7.40 plus tax and you will be on your merry way!  :clap:
What does that have to do with the interoperability (or apparent lack thereof) between Georgia and Florida?
Quick Pass is interoperable with GA and FL. See the below picture.

snowc

Quote from: 1995hoo on April 06, 2021, 02:53:29 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 06, 2021, 02:40:55 PM
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on April 06, 2021, 11:50:41 AM
Now can some who get's in hit with an lot of big fines with an (partially) interoperability transponder fight it in court?
Even more so on an road the changes mid way from taking EZ-pass to non EZ-pass?  In systems with local names EZ-pass logo only shows up on some toll areas but it is system wide.

A transponder is either interoperable or it isn't, and that depends on whether the issuing agency (like, say, OTA if you have a Pikepass) and the agency responsible for the facility it is used on have signed an agreement. There's no way for a transponder to be "partially interoperable".

I think what he may be trying to address–"may be" because I'm not certain what exactly he meant–is the situation that prevails in Orlando, where CFX roads accept E-ZPass and FTE roads do not. It creates a very strange situation when a particular road, such as FL-417 or FL-429, is partially administered by each of those facilities–the CFX-operated toll collection points accept E-ZPass, but the FTE ones do not. See map linked below.

https://www.cfxway.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/08.01.18Map-of-CFX-Roads-Accepting-E-ZPassFinal-1.pdf

There are signs saying "End E-ZPass Accepted" or something similar where the operation changes., though I don't have time to look for one on Street View right now. It's still a very strange situation to have, though. (The other side of the road has a corresponding "Begin E-ZPass Accepted" sign.)
That's the first time I have seen EZ-pass in FL.

snowc

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 06, 2021, 02:40:55 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 05, 2021, 08:49:22 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 05, 2021, 12:36:04 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 05, 2021, 11:30:59 AM
Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on April 05, 2021, 08:20:41 AM
Even in 2015, I took a trip to Florida and barely half of the automated toll cameras on the Florida Turnpike even could read my Peach Pass, even though both systems were supposedly compatible.  After this many years, there is no excuse.
If they're truly interoperable, why should the cameras be involved at all?  Shouldn't that be the job of the tag reader, not the licence plate cameras for toll by plate?
NC Quick Pass and EZPass are interoperable (partially). They (the user) need to cough up $7.40 plus tax and you will be on your merry way!  :clap:
What does that have to do with the interoperability (or apparent lack thereof) between Georgia and Florida?

Or specifically, about the question the guy actually asked, which is regarding interoperability between Texas and the east coast?

Quote from: Joe The Dragon on April 06, 2021, 11:50:41 AM
Now can some who get's in hit with an lot of big fines with an (partially) interoperability transponder fight it in court?
Even more so on an road the changes mid way from taking EZ-pass to non EZ-pass?  In systems with local names EZ-pass logo only shows up on some toll areas but it is system wide.

A transponder is either interoperable or it isn't, and that depends on whether the issuing agency (like, say, OTA if you have a Pikepass) and the agency responsible for the facility it is used on have signed an agreement. There's no way for a transponder to be "partially interoperable".
I don't know if TX is set up to use QuickPass or EZ-Pass. I have seen them work by plate in NC. Try using the BBP (bill by plate) method and maybe that will work.
I was asleep at the time of your post, sorry for the latency.  :sleep:

vdeane

Quote from: ran4sh on April 07, 2021, 02:52:55 PM
The reason NC, Orlando, and Louisville do this is so that local-only users aren't forced to pay for an E-ZPass transponder that they aren't going to use anyway. If E-ZPass upgrades to sticker-type transponders (which are free and have no battery that can discharge), then NC/Orlando/Louisville would have no need to offer 2 types of transponder.
That's a choice of who offers the transponder, not a function of stickers vs. hard case transponders like E-ZPass.  I have a Thruway E-ZPass and it's de facto free - there's no annual or monthly fee, and the only charge for getting it is a $10 deposit that's refunded to one's account immediately upon signing up for automatic replenishment.  Honestly, the idea of having to pay for a transponder strikes me as ridiculous.

Quote from: snowc on April 07, 2021, 03:49:28 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 05, 2021, 08:49:22 PM
What does that have to do with the interoperability (or apparent lack thereof) between Georgia and Florida?
Quick Pass is interoperable with GA and FL.
So?

Quote from: snowc on April 07, 2021, 03:54:25 PM
I don't know if TX is set up to use QuickPass or EZ-Pass.
They aren't.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.