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Longest state lines with no interstate crossings

Started by webny99, April 21, 2021, 10:44:35 PM

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Scott5114

Quote from: webny99 on April 22, 2021, 11:54:37 AM
Quote from: MCRoads on April 22, 2021, 11:48:55 AM
The Oklahoma panhandle might be a contender, as no interstate crosses into Oklahoma from I-40, up north, west around the panhandle, and east until I-35. According to rough measurements, it is 600 miles. I believe this may be a candidate for the longest such land border.

↓ I knew I put this in there for a reason! :D  But now that we have a practical example, I'm wavering. I'll let the audience decide if it counts or not.

Quote from: webny99 on April 21, 2021, 10:44:35 PM
2. What is the longest combined stretch of state lines with no interstate crossings?
...
-90 degree turns, such as the corner of WY near Yellowstone, are allowed, but 180 degree turns are not allowed (I'm not sure if any even exist, so this is just a pre-emptive note).

It would count for my question 3, if nothing else.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef


SEWIGuy

#26
I guess I have never thought of the WI / MI border running down the center of Lake Michigan as an actual border.  Who has jurisdiction over Lake Michigan?  Does something change when you cross the "border" in the middle of the lake?

EDIT:  For instance, when the total area of Wisconsin is calculated, do they include the portion of Lake Michigan that is on its side of the border?

GaryV

You can find lists that have water area and land area for states.

When the water area is included for MI, it's larger than Utah.

Given that there's no real state or local authority that has access in the Great Lakes (kind of hard to get the State Police out there), law enforcement probably falls to the Coast Guard.  Those law enforcement agencies that have boats - Detroit Police and Macomb County Sherriff as examples - primarily use them in near-shore waters for rescues and such.


dkblake

Quote from: jayhawkco on April 22, 2021, 11:20:55 AM
For question #2 not using maritime borders:

Around 502 miles along the CA/OR -> NV/OR -> NV/ID -> ID/UT border from I-5 to I-84.

Around 544 miles along the NE/WY -> NE/SD -> NE/IA border from I-80 to I-129.

Around 570 miles along WY/MT -> MT/SD -> SD/ND border from I-90 to I-29.

Chris

Also about 502 miles along the AZ/UT -> CO/NM border from I-15 to I-25.
2dis clinched: 8, 17, 69(original), 71, 72, 78, 81, 84(E), 86(E), 88(E), 89, 91, 93, 97

Mob-rule: http://www.mob-rule.com/user-gifs/USA/dblake.gif

SEWIGuy

Quote from: GaryV on April 22, 2021, 08:22:02 PM
You can find lists that have water area and land area for states.

When the water area is included for MI, it's larger than Utah.

Given that there's no real state or local authority that has access in the Great Lakes (kind of hard to get the State Police out there), law enforcement probably falls to the Coast Guard.  Those law enforcement agencies that have boats - Detroit Police and Macomb County Sherriff as examples - primarily use them in near-shore waters for rescues and such.




Gotcha.  I guess I never realized that included Great Lakes water too but that makes sense.

Flint1979

Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 22, 2021, 04:26:29 PM
I guess I have never thought of the WI / MI border running down the center of Lake Michigan as an actual border.  Who has jurisdiction over Lake Michigan?  Does something change when you cross the "border" in the middle of the lake?

EDIT:  For instance, when the total area of Wisconsin is calculated, do they include the portion of Lake Michigan that is on its side of the border?
To answer your edit yes Wisconsin's total area would include the half of Lake Michigan that is in Wisconsin.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: Flint1979 on April 23, 2021, 09:41:16 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 22, 2021, 04:26:29 PM
I guess I have never thought of the WI / MI border running down the center of Lake Michigan as an actual border.  Who has jurisdiction over Lake Michigan?  Does something change when you cross the "border" in the middle of the lake?

EDIT:  For instance, when the total area of Wisconsin is calculated, do they include the portion of Lake Michigan that is on its side of the border?
To answer your edit yes Wisconsin's total area would include the half of Lake Michigan that is in Wisconsin.

Thank you!  Never too old to learn something I guess...

StogieGuy7

Quote from: Flint1979 on April 23, 2021, 09:41:16 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 22, 2021, 04:26:29 PM
I guess I have never thought of the WI / MI border running down the center of Lake Michigan as an actual border.  Who has jurisdiction over Lake Michigan?  Does something change when you cross the "border" in the middle of the lake?

EDIT:  For instance, when the total area of Wisconsin is calculated, do they include the portion of Lake Michigan that is on its side of the border?
To answer your edit yes Wisconsin's total area would include the half of Lake Michigan that is in Wisconsin.

Yep, imagine if the Great Lakes ever dried up. The boundaries are set up so that it's clear who has jurisdiction over what.  Same is true for the Canadian border, which is how OH and PA technically border (Ontario) Canada and IL borders MI. 

Jurisdiction out to sea has a limit but the Great Lakes are inland waters and legal jurisdiction is determined in the same was as it is in the Potomac, Mississippi, Missouri or any other river that acts as a boundary - by which side you're on.  And the states have jurisdiction over fishing licenses too. 

So yes, it counts.

JayhawkCO

Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 23, 2021, 03:25:35 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 23, 2021, 09:41:16 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 22, 2021, 04:26:29 PM
I guess I have never thought of the WI / MI border running down the center of Lake Michigan as an actual border.  Who has jurisdiction over Lake Michigan?  Does something change when you cross the "border" in the middle of the lake?

EDIT:  For instance, when the total area of Wisconsin is calculated, do they include the portion of Lake Michigan that is on its side of the border?
To answer your edit yes Wisconsin's total area would include the half of Lake Michigan that is in Wisconsin.

Yep, imagine if the Great Lakes ever dried up. The boundaries are set up so that it's clear who has jurisdiction over what.  Same is true for the Canadian border, which is how OH and PA technically border (Ontario) Canada and IL borders MI. 

Jurisdiction out to sea has a limit but the Great Lakes are inland waters and legal jurisdiction is determined in the same was as it is in the Potomac, Mississippi, Missouri or any other river that acts as a boundary - by which side you're on.  And the states have jurisdiction over fishing licenses too. 

So yes, it counts.

This is also why Toledo has an official port of entry.

Chris

GaryV

Quote from: jayhawkco on April 23, 2021, 03:42:27 PM

This is also why Toledo has an official port of entry.

Chris

That's because they can receive international cargo on ships via the St Lawrence Seaway.  Milwaukee, Chicago, Duluth, Detroit, etc. are also ports of entry.

formulanone

Not a record, but 310 miles of border between I-75 and I-10 along Florida's northern borders.

hbelkins

Has anyone compiled a list of borders with no interstate crossings?

Kentucky has two -- no interstates between here and Missouri, and none between here and Virginia.

The most we have is five with Ohio -- two for 275, a shared crossing for 71 and 75, and 471 -- and they're all concentrated within a relatively few miles.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Scott5114

Quote from: hbelkins on April 24, 2021, 10:28:43 PM
Has anyone compiled a list of borders with no interstate crossings?

Kentucky has two -- no interstates between here and Missouri, and none between here and Virginia.

Oklahoma has two: no interstates between here and New Mexico or Colorado.

If you want to be very charitable and count TX and OK as having three borders with one another (east-west, north-south, and Red River) then the east-west border forming the southern border of the Panhandle would count as a third one.

It's kind of amazing how long the KS/NE border is, with no Interstate crossings at all.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

US 89

As far as western states go: Idaho-Wyoming, Nevada-Idaho, Nevada-Oregon, New Mexico-Oklahoma, Colorado-Oklahoma, and Montana-South Dakota all have zero interstate crossings.

The Four Corners (UT-NM, AZ-CO) don't have any either, but given those are zero-length borders it seems silly to include them here.

SkyPesos

Quote from: hbelkins on April 24, 2021, 10:28:43 PM
Has anyone compiled a list of borders with no interstate crossings?

Kentucky has two -- no interstates between here and Missouri, and none between here and Virginia.

The most we have is five with Ohio -- two for 275, a shared crossing for 71 and 75, and 471 -- and they're all concentrated within a relatively few miles.
Ohio
Indiana: 5 (I-275, I-74, I-70, I-80, I-90)
Kentucky: 4 (I-71, I-75, I-471, I-275)
Michigan: 1 (I-75)
Pennsylvania: 3 (I-76, I-80, I-90)
West Virginia: 3 (I-77, I-470, I-70)
Total: 16

Indiana
Illinois: 6 (I-64, I-70, I-74, I-80, I-94, I-90)
Kentucky: 4 (I-64, I-65, I-265, I-275), +1 future (I-69)
Michigan: 2 (I-94, I-69)
Ohio: 5 (I-275, I-74, I-70, I-80, I-90)
Total: 17

Illinois
Indiana: 6 (I-64, I-70, I-74, I-80, I-94, I-90)
Iowa: 3 (I-280, I-74, I-80)
Kentucky: 1 (I-24)
Michigan: 0
Missouri: 7 (I-57, I-255, I-55, I-64, I-70, I-270, I-72)
Wisconsin: 3 (I-39, I-90, I-94)
Total: 20

Missouri
Arkansas: 1 (I-55), +1 future (I-49)
Illinois: 7 (I-57, I-255, I-55, I-64, I-70, I-270, I-72)
Iowa: 2 (I-29, I-35)
Kansas: 5 (I-435, I-35, I-70, I-635, I-435)
Kentucky: 0
Nebraska: 0
Oklahoma: 1 (I-44)
Tennessee: 1 (I-155)
Total: 17

webny99

#40
Quote from: hbelkins on April 24, 2021, 10:28:43 PM
Has anyone compiled a list of borders with no interstate crossings?

I believe this is a complete list:

NY-VT
KY-VA
KY-MO
AR-MS
NC-GA
WI-MI
WI-IA
NE-MO
NE-SD
NE-KS
OK-CO
OK-NM
MT-SD
WY-ID
NV-ID
NV-OR

And if we're counting water-only borders, then add:
NY-RI
MI-MN
MI-IL

That's a total of 16 or 19, depending on how you count.



CtrlAltDel

Quote from: hbelkins on April 24, 2021, 10:28:43 PM
Has anyone compiled a list of borders with no interstate crossings?

Kentucky has two -- no interstates between here and Missouri, and none between here and Virginia.

The most we have is five with Ohio -- two for 275, a shared crossing for 71 and 75, and 471 -- and they're all concentrated within a relatively few miles.

Doesn't one of the 275s come from Indiana?
Interstates clinched: 4, 57, 275 (IN-KY-OH), 465 (IN), 640 (TN), 985
State Interstates clinched: I-26 (TN), I-75 (GA), I-75 (KY), I-75 (TN), I-81 (WV), I-95 (NH)

SkyPesos

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 25, 2021, 01:54:17 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 24, 2021, 10:28:43 PM
Has anyone compiled a list of borders with no interstate crossings?

Kentucky has two -- no interstates between here and Missouri, and none between here and Virginia.

The most we have is five with Ohio -- two for 275, a shared crossing for 71 and 75, and 471 -- and they're all concentrated within a relatively few miles.

Doesn't one of the 275s come from Indiana?
Yes
From my lists above for MO, IL, IN and OH, Kentucky is tied with 4 crossings each to Indiana and Ohio, but Indiana will take the lead after whenever the I-69 crossing opens. Not that long ago, Ohio had 1 more crossing from Kentucky than Indiana because the I-265 bridge didn't exist yet.

webny99

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 25, 2021, 12:33:39 AM
It's kind of amazing how long the KS/NE border is, with no Interstate crossings at all.

As I believe was mentioned upthread, NE/SD is slightly longer. I-29 comes frightfully close near Sioux City, but squeaks into Iowa with only a mile to spare. It is very fitting that the only state with no N/S interstates is also the only state with three interstate-free borders.

dfilpus

Quote from: webny99 on April 25, 2021, 01:51:11 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 24, 2021, 10:28:43 PM
Has anyone compiled a list of borders with no interstate crossings?

I believe this is a complete list:

NY-VT
KY-VA
KY-MO
WI-MI
WI-IA
NE-MO
NE-SD
NE-KS
OK-CO
OK-NM
MT-SD
WY-ID
NV-ID
NV-OR

And if we're counting water-only borders, then add:
NY-RI
MI-MN

That's a total of 15 or 17, depending on how you count.




Missed North Carolina/Georgia.

GaryV

Quote from: webny99 on April 25, 2021, 01:51:11 PM

And if we're counting water-only borders, then add:
NY-RI
MI-MN


And IL-MI water-only border

webny99

#46
Quote from: dfilpus on April 25, 2021, 02:09:28 PM
Missed North Carolina/Georgia.

Quote from: GaryV on April 25, 2021, 02:27:13 PM
And IL-MI water-only border

Correct. Fixed.

dkblake

2dis clinched: 8, 17, 69(original), 71, 72, 78, 81, 84(E), 86(E), 88(E), 89, 91, 93, 97

Mob-rule: http://www.mob-rule.com/user-gifs/USA/dblake.gif

frankenroad

Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 23, 2021, 09:13:57 AM
Quote from: GaryV on April 22, 2021, 08:22:02 PM
You can find lists that have water area and land area for states.

When the water area is included for MI, it's larger than Utah.

Given that there's no real state or local authority that has access in the Great Lakes (kind of hard to get the State Police out there), law enforcement probably falls to the Coast Guard.  Those law enforcement agencies that have boats - Detroit Police and Macomb County Sherriff as examples - primarily use them in near-shore waters for rescues and such.




Gotcha.  I guess I never realized that included Great Lakes water too but that makes sense.

You'd probably be surprised to know that one of the busiest stations in all the Coast Guard is in Marblehead, Ohio.
2di's clinched: 44, 66, 68, 71, 72, 74, 78, 83, 84(east), 86(east), 88(east), 96

Highways I've lived on M-43, M-185, US-127

webny99

Quote from: dkblake on April 28, 2021, 03:39:06 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 25, 2021, 02:30:39 PM
Quote from: dfilpus on April 25, 2021, 02:09:28 PM
Missed North Carolina/Georgia.

Quote from: GaryV on April 25, 2021, 02:27:13 PM
And IL-MI water-only border

Correct. Fixed.

One more- AR-MS.

Got it.

I knew there'd be a few I missed, but I figured at least putting a list out there would be as sure a way as any to end up with a complete list!  :)



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