News:

Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered from the forum database changes made in Fall 2023. Let us know if you discover anymore.

Main Menu

The BEST Transportation Agency in the U.S. (2021 Edition)

Started by JoePCool14, April 26, 2021, 10:13:31 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Scott5114

Posts not germane to the subject of transportation agencies have been removed.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef


jmacswimmer

Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 29, 2021, 05:43:36 PM
Little Delaware gets overlooked quite a lot, and some of their signage is just a disaster, but overall they do a pretty good job.  They have done a lot of road widening over the past 20 years; more so than many other states in the area.   They probably could've done a better job with 95 between MD and 295 in hindsight, either with an Express/Local Division or Car/Truck Division, to help with traffic that can bottleneck at many points along the "Delaware Turnpike" portion of the highway. But overall, compared to many other states in the greater Northeast region, they're pretty good at what they do in a very built-up area.

This could be wrong, but my thought is that simply giving a 3rd lane to the 295 ramp (either by adding yet another lane to 95 approaching the split, or taking one away from 95/495 at the split) would uncork a lot of the northbound issues in that area.  Southbound would be harder since ending a lane is more complicated operations-wise than opening one - not sure the best way to handle that since a hypothetical 3rd lane for the southbound 295 merge would just have to end fairly quickly anyway.

But agreed on DelDOT, they get a lot of mileage out of their tolls on I-95 & DE 1! (My understanding is that a lot of the DE 1 improvements south of Dover are being funded by DE 1 toll revenue.)
"Now, what if da Bearss were to enter the Indianapolis 5-hunnert?"
"How would they compete?"
"Let's say they rode together in a big buss."
"Is Ditka driving?"
"Of course!"
"Then I like da Bear buss."
"DA BEARSSS BUSSSS"

FixThe74Sign

Quote from: SkyPesos on April 28, 2021, 11:09:14 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on April 28, 2021, 10:55:34 PM
The previous example would be the downgrades to the I-465/Sam Jones interchange - should have been a direct ramp for SB to EB rather than the triple left.
Is the downgrade of 465 and San Jones because of the IND airport terminal relocation? I checked Historic Aerials for the previous configuration, and it was a cloverstack with the SB-EB direction served by a flyover, and it was reconfigured just a couple of years after the terminal got relocated. If that's the case, I get the reason for the downgrade, as the airport traffic isn't there anymore.

No, a lot of the SB to EB traffic are downtown commuters using Sam Jones as a shortcut to reach 70 East to get downtown. It was pretty independent of IND traffic. I too am not a fan of the current triple left...and its a very tight triple left.

With that said, I think INDOT has improved.


  • Better cleanup work (litter control, highway sweeping, etc)
  • I-69 Extension
  • Plans in place to fix the 2 largest traffic issues in Indy
  • Have repaved or repaired almost every mile of interstate in the Indy metro over the past 2 years (no joke)

List most states, there are some places where they seem to just do a patch over and over again instead of a full repair (like 74 in Shelby Co.). Also they sometimes put up incorrect signs and don't fix them.



NoGoodNamesAvailable

NYCDOT has its issues (especially with how they maintain expressways) but I think they have some of the best maintenance and design for local streets. Their parking signs are much more legible and consistent than the standard MUTCD signs, and they are usually good with signal configurations (creative use of LPIs and FYA, not afraid of permissive left turns, and the signals are pretimed instead of actuated which is almost always the right choice in an urban environment).

Also, you can complain about the speed cameras and red light cameras, but I have seen first hand that they really do cut down on reckless driving. The program is not too unreasonable, you have to be going over 36 to get caught by the speed cameras and NYC times its yellow intervals correctly. Look at neighboring cities without such a program like Newark and JC in NJ and people drive much more recklessly and run red lights with impunity. So I think it's a good system.

Rothman

Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on April 29, 2021, 09:04:27 PM
NYCDOT has its issues (especially with how they maintain expressways) but I think they have some of the best maintenance and design for local streets. Their parking signs are much more legible and consistent than the standard MUTCD signs, and they are usually good with signal configurations (creative use of LPIs and FYA, not afraid of permissive left turns, and the signals are pretimed instead of actuated which is almost always the right choice in an urban environment).

Also, you can complain about the speed cameras and red light cameras, but I have seen first hand that they really do cut down on reckless driving. The program is not too unreasonable, you have to be going over 36 to get caught by the speed cameras and NYC times its yellow intervals correctly. Look at neighboring cities without such a program like Newark and JC in NJ and people drive much more recklessly and run red lights with impunity. So I think it's a good system.
Ha!  NYCDOT's letting record during COVID has been miserable and causing the State to do accounting gymnastics to deal with their lack of getting projects out on the street.

Even outside of COVID, NYCDOT is notorious for demanding a larger share of federal dollars and being unable to spend them due to the byzantine processes they have to follow to get projects done.

So...nah.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

sprjus4

Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 29, 2021, 05:22:18 PM
Agreed, I recall I-95 (in addition to being just 4 lanes everywhere outside Florence) being rather bumpy throughout the state.  If they could at least prioritize 6-laning from GA to I-26 (or even just to exit 33)...
There were definitely some bad, bumpy, unimproved segments on my most recent trip through the state. Not impressed in that regard, in addition to the fact it's all 4 lanes, especially south of I-26.

Revive 755

Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on April 29, 2021, 12:19:17 AM
I gotta get a nod for Wisconsin when it comes to their interchange choices more recently.

Freeway-to-freeway interchanges are (mostly) stacks, roundabout interchanges are on the rage, and they are starting to use Diverging Diamond Interchanges on some of their busier interchanges! They have also raised the speed limit to 70 mph to match their neighbors as they were the last to do so. WisDOT has a "either go big or go home attitude" when it comes to their road design![/quote]

Wisconsin went a little overboard with the roundabout though - I would like to know how trucks can get gaps to get through some of the ones along I-41.

If Wisconsin keeps at some of the improvements they have done, I could go for them as the best, but there are two other things Wisconsin does I take issue with:

* Excessive use for stop-controlled right turns at signalized intersections (example near Racine).  Either use yield signs on most of them (as a lot of other states would) or signalize the right turns like Illinois.

* Lack of reflective pavement markers - much easier to figure out where the lanes are in Illinois in a nighttime rain storm compared to Wisconsin.



Doesn't seem to much in the way of comments on how well the various states do on snow removal - curious how the Dakotas would compare to Michigan or Maine.

kphoger

Quote from: Rothman on April 29, 2021, 09:26:21 PM
NYCDOT is notorious for demanding a larger share of federal dollars and being unable to spend them due to the byzantine processes they have to follow to get projects done.

Isn't that true of every agency in NYC, not just transportation?  That's my impression as an outsider.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

SkyPesos

Quote from: kphoger on April 30, 2021, 10:02:56 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 29, 2021, 09:26:21 PM
NYCDOT is notorious for demanding a larger share of federal dollars and being unable to spend them due to the byzantine processes they have to follow to get projects done.

Isn't that true of every agency in NYC, not just transportation?  That's my impression as an outsider.
It sounds true for the MTA in NYC too. Not sure about the third NYC transportation agency (Port Authority)

silverback1065

i would put Indianapolis DPW on the list of worst. they're perpetually cash strapped and road quality is embarrassing.

Ned Weasel

#60
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 18, 2014, 05:53:43 PM
As before when this has been discussed, I vote for KDOT:

I know you live in a state that makes KDOT look flawless, but as long as I'm here, you can always count on me to pick apart your idealization of KDOT.

Quote

  • Clear, consistent signage

There has never been clear messaging to warn of the lane drop on the southbound 69 at 135th Street, and I personally don't feel "RIGHT LANE ONLY" does the job, when they could at least use a bit of extra sheet metal and go with MODOT's "RIGHT LANE EXIT ONLY" panels.  I'm guessing this signage will never live up to MUTCD standards until The Widening happens.

Also, I'm definitely not a fun of the "blink and you'll miss it" way of signing US 50, an important National highway and a well used freeway in Missouri, at one of its most important turning points: https://goo.gl/maps/AiXq4G3xV8Eog2XcA , https://goo.gl/maps/qc39YVjGYEeSRupt8 .  In fact, this is very inconsistent with the way US 24 and 40 are signed at one of their major turning points: https://goo.gl/maps/Lh5tiiBQZJFfVEYJ6 , https://goo.gl/maps/Wz9oFxG1eNwa28rX7 .

Quote

  • Well-maintained road surfaces (KDOT is not afraid to tear a road down to the dirt and rebuild it if necessary)

No argument.  They certainly do a good job in this department, and one could argue, this is the most important thing.

Quote

  • Excellent attention to detail in road geometry (curves are banked just right)

Actually, I'll agree again for the most part and even argue that they do a better job than the KTA, especially with the example of this theoretically 75-MPH curve https://goo.gl/maps/jeg1XXUdNYYLdW9V8 , which always feels awkward every time I drive it.  However, this theoretically 65-MPH KDOT curve: https://goo.gl/maps/m4ebo5BNpFQr3ZFP6 , also feels awkward.

Quote

  • Well-organized route system

Really?  Why is the eastern leg of K-96 not an X35 when it could, and arguably should, be?  Why is K-10 not an X-70 when it functions as one?  No, I know the historical reasons; this was a mostly rhetorical question.  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're only talking about the State Route system and not the US Highways, but that leads me into....

...the problem with US Highways in Kansas.  They're an absolute mess, especially in Northeast Kansas.  US 40 through Lawrence, US 69 through Merriam, OP, and KCK, and US 169 in Johnson and Wyandotte Counties are the biggest offenders.  We both know those routings are so messy and nonsensical because of KDOT's attempt at minimizing state highway mileage and its policy of not having state routes exist entirely within contiguous city limits, which would allow the northern end of Metcalf Avenue to be K-635 instead of a nonsensical leg of US 69.  And these messy routings leave the signage being haphazard at best.  Good luck following US 169 from Missouri all the way through Kansas (spoiler alert: its signage disappears just south of KCK).

Quote

  • Frequent decommissionings to avoid spending money on roads that don't need to be state-maintained (freeing it up for improvements on other routes)

This is just as much a problem as it is a benefit.  Or maybe it's more that the decommissionings of minor routes are okay (although I'm not sure how I feel about K-12 and K-150 in Johnson County, especially considering a state DOT might have done a better job at maintaining traffic flow rather than the cities sticking four-phase signals all over them).  But the re-routings of US Highways to reduce state highway mileage makes things a mess as described above.

Quote

  • No Clearview

https://youtu.be/JMvJg8PhRg0

But anyway, if there's one opinion we can all agree on, it's that, no matter who is the BEST, ALANDOT is definitely the GOAT.
"I was raised by a cup of coffee." - Strong Bad imitating Homsar

Disclaimer: Views I express are my own and don't reflect any employer or associated entity.

kphoger

Quote from: stridentweasel on April 30, 2021, 11:37:58 AM
Really?  Why is the eastern leg of K-96 not an X35 when it could, and arguably should, be?  ...  No, I know the historical reasons; this was a mostly rhetorical question.

The eastern leg of K-96 still very much functions as part of the Hutchinson—Parsons route.  As it is, a person driving that stretch merely takes K-96 to US-400.  With your renumbering, that person would have to take K-96, then transition to K-x35 to US-400.

Nobody is using the eastern leg of K-96 as a loop/bypass route of either I-35 or I-135:

I-35 to I-35 = alternate route uses I-135 and K-254
SB I-135 to WB US-54 or SB I-35 = alternate route uses existing I-235
SB I-135 to NB I-35 = alternate route would have been K-196 or K-254 further back

Really, it adds a number to the mix for little benefit.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

NoGoodNamesAvailable

Quote from: SkyPesos on April 30, 2021, 10:08:05 AM
It sounds true for the MTA in NYC too. Not sure about the third NYC transportation agency (Port Authority)

The Port Authority is self-sufficient and doesn't generally receive grants or tax dollars intended for government agencies (outside some rare exceptions where they asked for federal assistance like after 9/11 or during COVID). They make more than enough money from outrageously expensive tolls, rent revenue at the WTC and airports, and airport fees.

CoreySamson

#63
Here's an (incomplete) tier list based on my personal experience and what I've heard, tell me what you think:

Tier 1: Amazing
FDOT (Florida)
WSDOT (Washington)
ADOT (Arizona)

Tier 2: Pretty Good
TxDOT (Texas)
TNDOT (Tennessee)
WisDOT (Wisconsin)
KDOT (Kansas)
INDOT (Indiana)
MoDOT (Missouri)
UDOT (Utah)
CDOT (Colorado)
NCDOT (North Carolina)
ODOT (Ohio)
IADOT (Iowa)
NEDOT (Nebraska)
DelDOT (Delaware)

Tier 3: Okay
DOTD (Louisiana)
MDOT (Mississippi)
ODOT (Oregon)
MDOT (Michigan)
GDOT (Georgia)
VDOT (Virginia)
NYSDOT (New York)
MnDOT (Minnesota)
NJDOT (New Jersey)
MDOT (Maryland)
WVDOT (West Virginia)
KTC (Kentucky)

Tier 4: Mediocre
ARDOT (Arkansas)
PennDOT (Pennsylvania)
CalTrans (California)
SCDOT (South Carolina)

Tier 5: Bad
RIDOT (Rhode Island)
IDOT (Illinois)

Tier 6: Garbage
ODOT (Oklahoma)
NMDOT (New Mexico)

Unsure (maybe people with more knowledge on these states can help out?)
ITD (Idaho)
NDOT (Nevada)
WYDOT (Wyoming)
MDT (Montana)
NDDOT (North Dakota)
SDDOT (South Dakota)
ALDOT (Alabama)
VTrans (Vermont)
NHDOT (New Hampshire)
HDOT (Hawaii)
AKDOT (Alaska)
MaineDOT (Maine)
CTDOT (Connecticut)
MassDOT (Massachusetts)

EDIT: Took some more feedback, 6/6/21
Buc-ee's and QuikTrip fanboy. Clincher of FM roads. Proponent of the TX U-turn.

My Route Log
My Clinches

Now on mobrule and Travel Mapping!

sprjus4

Quote from: CoreySamson on May 27, 2021, 07:51:01 PM
Here's an (incomplete) tier list based on my personal experience and what I've heard, tell me what you think:

Tier 1: Amazing
ODOT (Ohio)
FDOT (Florida)
WSDOT (Washington)
ADOT (Arizona)

Tier 2: Pretty Good
TxDOT (Texas)
TNDOT (Tennessee)
WisDOT (Wisconsin)
KDOT (Kansas)
INDOT (Indiana)
MoDOT (Missouri)
UDOT (Utah)
CDOT (Colorado)

Tier 3: Okay
DOTD (Louisiana)
MDOT (Mississippi)
ODOT (Oregon)
MDOT (Michigan)
GDOT (Georgia)
VDOT (Virginia)
NYSDOT (New York)

Tier 4: Mediocre
ARDOT (Arkansas)
PennDOT (Pennsylvania)
CalTrans (California)
SCDOT (South Carolina)
IDOT (Illinois)
MDOT (Maryland)

Tier 5: Bad
ODOT (Oklahoma)
NMDOT (New Mexico)
RIDOT (Rhode Island)

Unsure (maybe people with more knowledge on these states can help out?)
ITD (Idaho)
NDOT (Nevada)
WYDOT (Wyoming)
MDT (Montana)
NDDOT (North Dakota)
SDDOT (South Dakota)
NEDOT (Nebraska)
IADOT (Iowa)
MnDOT (Minnesota)
KTC (Kentucky)
ALDOT (Alabama)
WVDOT (West Virginia)
DelDOT (Delaware)
NJDOT (New Jersey)
VTrans (Vermont)
NHDOT (New Hampshire)
HDOT (Hawaii)
AKDOT (Alaska)
MaineDOT (Maine)
CTDOT (Connecticut)
MassDOT (Massachusetts)
I'd put North Carolina with either Tier 1 or Tier 2. Certainly better than Virginia, for instance, and somewhat comparable to Florida.

thspfc

Quote from: CoreySamson on May 27, 2021, 07:51:01 PM
Here's an (incomplete) tier list based on my personal experience and what I've heard, tell me what you think:

Tier 1: Amazing
ODOT (Ohio)
FDOT (Florida)
WSDOT (Washington)
ADOT (Arizona)

Tier 2: Pretty Good
TxDOT (Texas)
TNDOT (Tennessee)
WisDOT (Wisconsin)
KDOT (Kansas)
INDOT (Indiana)
MoDOT (Missouri)
UDOT (Utah)
CDOT (Colorado)
NCDOT (North Carolina)

Tier 3: Okay
DOTD (Louisiana)
MDOT (Mississippi)
ODOT (Oregon)
MDOT (Michigan)
GDOT (Georgia)
VDOT (Virginia)
NYSDOT (New York)

Tier 4: Mediocre
ARDOT (Arkansas)
PennDOT (Pennsylvania)
CalTrans (California)
SCDOT (South Carolina)
IDOT (Illinois)
MDOT (Maryland)

Tier 5: Bad
ODOT (Oklahoma)
NMDOT (New Mexico)
RIDOT (Rhode Island)

Unsure (maybe people with more knowledge on these states can help out?)
ITD (Idaho)
NDOT (Nevada)
WYDOT (Wyoming)
MDT (Montana)
NDDOT (North Dakota)
SDDOT (South Dakota)
NEDOT (Nebraska)
IADOT (Iowa)
MnDOT (Minnesota)
KTC (Kentucky)
ALDOT (Alabama)
WVDOT (West Virginia)
DelDOT (Delaware)
NJDOT (New Jersey)
VTrans (Vermont)
NHDOT (New Hampshire)
HDOT (Hawaii)
AKDOT (Alaska)
MaineDOT (Maine)
CTDOT (Connecticut)
MassDOT (Massachusetts)

EDIT: Forgot NCDOT
I would put Iowa and Nebraska in 2 and Minnesota in 3. I would drop Illinois down to 5.

Scott5114

Having driven in Illinois, Oklahoma, and New Mexico, if you drop Illinois to 5, you'd have to create a Tier 6 for OK and NM. If IDOT's crimes are like embezzling and tax fraud, Oklahoma and New Mexico's are like snorting a line of coke and driving down the sidewalk in a crowded pedestrian area while shooting unlicensed firearms out the windows.

IDOT is much closer in quality to Caltrans and ArDOT than it is ODOT and NMDOT.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

SkyPesos

If you have Ohio as tier 1, so does at least half of the tier 2 states. I find Ohio roads to be good, but not really best of the best.

TheStranger

Chiming in about CalTrans in response to some of what had been posted earlier:

There are certainly some flaws that can easily be acknowledged...

- the 120 inch height limit does create cramped signage (something that is being addressed in the past year with increased sign heights) and seems to be more of an aesthetic preference than a practical

- very few roads are built out here in recent years, but that is in some ways due to a political climate entirely out of the agency's control.

- the haphazardness of route segmentation/truncation and signage may also be to an extent out of the agency's control (due to legislative involvement in route numbering).

- some districts are just better able to get things accomplished than others, accounting for vast differences in sign quality and style (i.e. Santa Clara County and southern San Mateo County starting to adopt wider gore point exit number signs compared to San Francisco).

- a few of the older interchanges are hard to upgrade due to right-of-way issues (older tight cloverleafs along the San Bernardino Freeway, or the 101/880 bottleneck in San Jose)

Things that they can control and improve:

- maintenance of existing roads (280 being ultra-bumpy past the Alemany Maze)
- having highway lighting that is actually on (280 south of 380 can be extremely dark at night due to the lights being kept off; noticed similar things around 101 north of the airport as well)
- making sure the numbered routes that do exist ARE signed properly.  Getting those 262 shields on in the last month is a nice start but plenty of other roads that could use trailblazers.

Things they have done well:

- the Route 99 upgrades in the last 20 years to make it a seamless freeway corridor from Wheeler Ridge to almost the Sacramento/Sutter County line. hopefully eventually all the way to Yuba City entirely.

- widening projects in Orange County

- pushing through with some key expressway upgrades (Route 132 along the old I-5W corridor in Modesto, Route 58 near Kramer Junction, Route 12 between Route 29 and I-80)
Chris Sampang

Scott5114

Quote from: TheStranger on May 28, 2021, 03:47:21 AM
- having highway lighting that is actually on (280 south of 380 can be extremely dark at night due to the lights being kept off; noticed similar things around 101 north of the airport as well)

Do you know if this is actually an intentional choice by Caltrans? Here in Oklahoma, we have a lot of dark freeways, but it's not ODOT's doing–thieves have stolen the wiring out of the lights to sell as scrap copper!
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Ned Weasel

Quote from: CoreySamson on May 27, 2021, 07:51:01 PM
Here's an (incomplete) tier list based on my personal experience and what I've heard, tell me what you think:

I'd put NJDOT in Tier 2, and bump PennDOT up to Tier 3.  PennDOT is so much better than its old reputation.  And NJDOT is pretty amazing except for a few blemishes here and there.
"I was raised by a cup of coffee." - Strong Bad imitating Homsar

Disclaimer: Views I express are my own and don't reflect any employer or associated entity.

TheStranger

Quote from: Scott5114 on May 28, 2021, 05:53:30 AM
Quote from: TheStranger on May 28, 2021, 03:47:21 AM
- having highway lighting that is actually on (280 south of 380 can be extremely dark at night due to the lights being kept off; noticed similar things around 101 north of the airport as well)

Do you know if this is actually an intentional choice by Caltrans? Here in Oklahoma, we have a lot of dark freeways, but it's not ODOT's doing–thieves have stolen the wiring out of the lights to sell as scrap copper!

I originally thought it was because of the following two factors:

- power savings/less electricity use
- wanting to avoid light pollution

Having said that, I haven't seen much documentation on this, only that there are a lot of sections of Bay Area freeway that remain dark at night.  IIRC the Nimitz Freeway/880 is lit in some portions but in others has the streetlamps left dark.

This may be a district-specific thing and not statewide, i.e. this example story of the opposite problem (lights on during the day) -
https://www.pe.com/2018/06/03/driver-wonders-why-new-60-freeway-median-lights-are-on-during-the-day/

What is amusing is in following the construction progress and completion of the Metro Manila Skyway, Philippine engineers not only made sure to have full streetlamp lighting for most of the newly built Stage 3 (in particular from Manila to Caloocan), they also came up with a new style of expressway lighting using LED tape on the top edge of the concrete barriers!  So weird to see the Philippines be more imaginative with road lighting than Northern California at this present time.
Chris Sampang

Bickendan

WSDOT as a Tier 1?
Uh, I'd need some very good justification for such a high appraisal for a DOT that allowed this to be installed:
https://goo.gl/maps/BBbx7TT4iaMY4xMD9

I was going to make a joke about ODOT being a top-notch agency, but signage wise (not counting the lack of trailblazer or reassurance shields on many of the post-2002 Routes), ODOT's signs look better than WSDOT's.

Now, as for maintencance, construction, sure, credit where it's due. It feels like WSDOT moves forward faster and better than ODOT does with new facilities as well as maintaining them (though local politics on my side of the Columbia doesn't help...).

jeffandnicole

I'd do NJDOT as Tier 3. Some things they do, they do well. Some things they don't do well, they make sure they f it up as best they can.

DelDOT: 20 years ago, I'd put them in as Tier 1. But some slippage may push them down to Tier 2.

Maryland: Overall, Tier 2. Their handling of EZ Pass, especially full time ETC: Tier 5

JoePCool14

Can we please create another tier between 4 and 5? IDOT may not be OkDOT, but to put it on the same level as SCDOT or even PennDOT just feels insulting to those two states.

Also, we're all pretty familiar with why Oklahoma and New Mexico are so bad, but why is Rhode Island so bad?

:) Needs more... :sombrero: Not quite... :bigass: Perfect.
JDOT: We make the world a better place to drive.
Travel Mapping | 60+ Clinches | 260+ Traveled | 8000+ Miles Logged



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.