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Author Topic: OLD and NEW  (Read 1501 times)

Mergingtraffic

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OLD and NEW
« on: April 27, 2021, 03:22:23 PM »

A new game....How about we post a pic of an older sign and the pic of the sign's current replacement. 
The rules are it has to be the same sign and an actual pic. No cheating with GSV. 
You can post more than one version of the older sign.  For example a pic of the current replacement, and then the sign it replaced and the sign that the older one replaced as well.

CT-8 on-ramp in Shelton, CT.

OLD (Sign dates to the 1960s and was up until April 2021)


NEW (sign went up in April 2021)



I would imagine this would be real easy for FL people as they tend to replace signs fast.  I noticed on GSV the I-95 ENDS sign was replaced 3 times in 10 years. 
« Last Edit: April 27, 2021, 03:33:45 PM by Mergingtraffic »
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: OLD and NEW
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2021, 06:33:55 PM »

This might have potential for me in California post SB1.  I’ll have to do some digging but there has a been a crap ton of replacements in D6. 
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SkyPesos

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Re: OLD and NEW
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2021, 06:53:47 PM »

No cheating with GSV. 
Guess I should've taken photos of the button copy signs in Cincinnati before they got replaced some years ago :c
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Scott5114

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Re: OLD and NEW
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2021, 07:50:40 PM »


AARoads photo, 2003


2005


2006


2014
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stridentweasel

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Re: OLD and NEW
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2021, 05:34:34 AM »

^ Proof that, given enough time, ODOT can go from haphazard to almost perfectly clean and stylistically correct.
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Re: OLD and NEW
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2021, 10:36:43 AM »

No cheating with GSV. 
Guess I should've taken photos of the button copy signs in Cincinnati before they got replaced some years ago :c

If you ask me, GSV isn't cheating, it just makes the game so easy that it's not fun anymore.
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Scott5114

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Re: OLD and NEW
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2021, 02:59:09 PM »

No cheating with GSV. 
Guess I should've taken photos of the button copy signs in Cincinnati before they got replaced some years ago :c

If you ask me, GSV isn't cheating, it just makes the game so easy that it's not fun anymore.

That and a picture specially composed by a roadgeek is likely to be nicer-looking and show the sign better than GSV would. We've all done the song and dance where you're trying to get a good look at a sign and the optimal viewing spot is right in between two GSV captures. One is too far back for you to see anything, and the next is just past the sign.

^ Proof that, given enough time, ODOT can go from haphazard to almost perfectly clean and stylistically correct.

Yeah, if you start at the bottom and work your way up, haha. I can't forgive the use of a down arrow as an up arrow. (The only reason the 108A sign didn't match the button copy next to it is because the button copy version of that sign originally included "Univ. of Okla." as a destination, and they later decided not to sign any exit in particular for OU since many of the Norman exits can be used to access one OU facility or another.)

They've actually replaced the 108B panel since 2014, because the Lindsey Street exit was closed for reconstruction, and they tried blocking the message out with electrical tape. Of course this ended up destroying the sign sheeting since the exit was closed for so long, so they had to replace the whole panel. And just like that we're back to unclean.

Signage on I-35 in Norman is a mess because the highway was expanded from about 2009 to 2015 or so, so all of the signage has been installed across five different contracts. So none of them are really consistent with each other.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2021, 03:02:50 PM by Scott5114 »
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fwydriver405

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Re: OLD and NEW
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2021, 04:53:05 AM »

I have a whole bunch of Maine (mostly Turnpike) and New Hampshire photos over the years I have in my files that I'm going to have to dig out... I'll start with I-93 NB in New Hampshire at Exit 1 and at I-293/NH 101:

Exit 1:
1 mile (1.6 km) advance
EDIT: Thought I'd throw in the 1 mile (1.6 km) signs... until recently, there was no 1 mile (1.6 km) advance for Exit 1 NB for several years throughout the 2010s due to the I-93 widening project. First photo is from AARoads, 2005/06/27, and the second photo, from me, taken 2020/10/10.



Exit 1 at the gore (first two photos, pre-2005 and 2009 are from NHDOT, third (2013) from Robert H. Malme, and fourth (2020) from me)


I-293/NH 101: (2017/05/27 and before on left, 2020/08/24-present on right, all photos taken by me)
1 Mile (1.6 km) advance


½ Mile (0.8 km) advance
« Last Edit: April 29, 2021, 05:21:04 AM by fwydriver405 »
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JoePCool14

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Re: OLD and NEW
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2021, 07:55:21 AM »

No cheating with GSV. 
Guess I should've taken photos of the button copy signs in Cincinnati before they got replaced some years ago :c

If you ask me, GSV isn't cheating, it just makes the game so easy that it's not fun anymore.

That and a picture specially composed by a roadgeek is likely to be nicer-looking and show the sign better than GSV would. We've all done the song and dance where you're trying to get a good look at a sign and the optimal viewing spot is right in between two GSV captures. One is too far back for you to see anything, and the next is just past the sign.

^ Proof that, given enough time, ODOT can go from haphazard to almost perfectly clean and stylistically correct.

Yeah, if you start at the bottom and work your way up, haha. I can't forgive the use of a down arrow as an up arrow. (The only reason the 108A sign didn't match the button copy next to it is because the button copy version of that sign originally included "Univ. of Okla." as a destination, and they later decided not to sign any exit in particular for OU since many of the Norman exits can be used to access one OU facility or another.)

They've actually replaced the 108B panel since 2014, because the Lindsey Street exit was closed for reconstruction, and they tried blocking the message out with electrical tape. Of course this ended up destroying the sign sheeting since the exit was closed for so long, so they had to replace the whole panel. And just like that we're back to unclean.

Signage on I-35 in Norman is a mess because the highway was expanded from about 2009 to 2015 or so, so all of the signage has been installed across five different contracts. So none of them are really consistent with each other.

I don't know how you stay sane when things are they bad. Maybe it just makes things more interesting. Either way, it just baffles my mind how little people down the line care. That absolutely no one questions what is going on. No one questions why the signs look the way they do. Compared to the standards in states like Wisconsin or North Carolina, it just blows my mind.
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StogieGuy7

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Re: OLD and NEW
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2021, 02:41:33 PM »

That 2005 sign configuration for Exit 108 A-B is the high water mark, IMHO. It's been going downhill since then, and markedly so.

And, this seems to the endemic at ODOT. I recall traveling through OK back in the 1995-2000 time frame and actually found the signage to be quite acceptable. Yes, the state highway badges were circles - but I actually don't mind that, unlike many here in the forum. But the signs themselves were just fine.  In more recent travels to and through OK, I find the signage to be getting worse and worse. Mismatched fonts, lousy spacing, lots of inconsistencies and all made worse by the overly abundant use of Clearview (which is tough to make attractive even when perfectly installed). 
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JoePCool14

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Re: OLD and NEW
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2021, 04:48:35 PM »

That 2005 sign configuration for Exit 108 A-B is the high water mark, IMHO. It's been going downhill since then, and markedly so.

And, this seems to the endemic at ODOT. I recall traveling through OK back in the 1995-2000 time frame and actually found the signage to be quite acceptable. Yes, the state highway badges were circles - but I actually don't mind that, unlike many here in the forum. But the signs themselves were just fine.  In more recent travels to and through OK, I find the signage to be getting worse and worse. Mismatched fonts, lousy spacing, lots of inconsistencies and all made worse by the overly abundant use of Clearview (which is tough to make attractive even when perfectly installed).

It all has to do with the way signs are produced nowadays. Previously, when demountable copy or button copy was the standard, you were restricted with what you could actually put on the sign. You were limited to only a couple sets of letters, arrows, shields, and sign borders. The worst you could do was mismatch letters, cram things, get info wrong, or go full-blown cRaiG CoUnTY.

Now, with programs like SignCAD or GuidSIGN, you can do whatever you want and just print the sign: change kearning, compress/stretch text and shields, use weird arrows, compress/stretch said arrows, use different line strokes, etc. So the crap can be worse than ever before basically.

Also the 2006 version is my pick for the best. And my pick for the worst is what's there now on GMSV.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2021, 02:00:12 PM by JoePCool14 »
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Scott5114

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Re: OLD and NEW
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2021, 07:00:50 PM »

That 2005 sign configuration for Exit 108 A-B is the high water mark, IMHO. It's been going downhill since then, and markedly so.

And, this seems to the endemic at ODOT. I recall traveling through OK back in the 1995-2000 time frame and actually found the signage to be quite acceptable. Yes, the state highway badges were circles - but I actually don't mind that, unlike many here in the forum. But the signs themselves were just fine.  In more recent travels to and through OK, I find the signage to be getting worse and worse. Mismatched fonts, lousy spacing, lots of inconsistencies and all made worse by the overly abundant use of Clearview (which is tough to make attractive even when perfectly installed). 

The 2005 and 2006 photos are actually the same signs. The new highway shields were simply affixed over top of the old ones.
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StogieGuy7

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Re: OLD and NEW
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2021, 11:52:50 AM »

That 2005 sign configuration for Exit 108 A-B is the high water mark, IMHO. It's been going downhill since then, and markedly so.

And, this seems to the endemic at ODOT. I recall traveling through OK back in the 1995-2000 time frame and actually found the signage to be quite acceptable. Yes, the state highway badges were circles - but I actually don't mind that, unlike many here in the forum. But the signs themselves were just fine.  In more recent travels to and through OK, I find the signage to be getting worse and worse. Mismatched fonts, lousy spacing, lots of inconsistencies and all made worse by the overly abundant use of Clearview (which is tough to make attractive even when perfectly installed). 

The 2005 and 2006 photos are actually the same signs. The new highway shields were simply affixed over top of the old ones.

In looking closely, you're absolutely right.  And it explains why JoePCool and I made our picks: Joe doesn't care for the circular badges.  As for me, I never liked the meat cleaver.  Looks amateurish, like something a child would design, so I prefer the circle badge to that. But the overall sign configuration was far better on the 2005/2006 version than the current version.

Also great point made by JPCool on why so many BGS' now look terrible. Operator error, now that such errors are far easier to make. 
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Re: OLD and NEW
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2021, 11:19:06 PM »

I've only been to one road meet, but at that meet I was praised for the upper photo.  I had seen it in Renton for years and I finally took a picture of it before it was taken down, the day my first car died for good in 2007.  It's a classic: chipped board, faded lettering, haloed lettering and a state sign Interstate shield.  The support stayed empty for years, and only just recently did someone put upcoming turns on it.


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Re: OLD and NEW
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2021, 11:56:31 AM »

Here's one of the Figueroa tunnels on CA 110 (former CA 11, former US 6/66/99) in 2005, 2009 and 2018.

http://www.floodgap.com/roadgap/110/u3/#sec_8
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Re: OLD and NEW
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2021, 02:17:23 PM »

Eastern terminus of I-69/I-94 in Port Huron, MI.

Pre-2011:  Right exit to the Blue Water Bridge to Sarnia, Ontario.  Left exit to a connector road to M-25 (and to the westbound business loops).


Late 2012 after completion of two-year project to reconstruct/widen/redesign:  The movements were switched; new right C/D exit to M-25 and the business loops, keep left to the Blue Water Bridge.  This split is about 3/4 mile west of the old configuration, but I think for all intents and purposes these are "same signs."  (The new I-94/I-69 END sign is farther east at its old location.)


Too many motorists who hadn't yet updated their GPS units stubbornly insisted on keeping left for M-25 despite the signs and found themselves on the bridge heading into Canada.  (A friend of mine who worked for MDOT at the time told me it happened with a few dozen people a day.)  So not long after the new signs above went up, MDOT replaced them again with newer signs displaying American and Canadian flag graphics, adding a yellow toll banner, and replacing the "Fort Gratiot" control with "USA."

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Re: OLD and NEW
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2021, 05:22:13 PM »

Those signs make me wonder:

Instead of control cities, or even control states... what about control countries??  :spin:
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Re: OLD and NEW
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2021, 05:39:52 AM »

Those signs make me wonder:

Instead of control cities, or even control states... what about control countries??  :spin:

US 50 in Jackson County, Missouri goes directly to a different Johnson County in either direction, so there's one wrench in that idea, although you could add the state abbreviation for differentiation.
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Re: OLD and NEW
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2021, 06:03:22 AM »

Those signs make me wonder:

Instead of control cities, or even control states... what about control countries??  :spin:

US 50 in Jackson County, Missouri goes directly to a different Johnson County in either direction, so there's one wrench in that idea, although you could add the state abbreviation for differentiation.

Countries, not counties. (The context was the USA/Canada sign in Michigan posted earlier.)
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Re: OLD and NEW
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2021, 06:22:28 AM »

Countries, not counties. (The context was the USA/Canada sign in Michigan posted earlier.)

Oh poop, I don't read good!  X-(

Hmm, I can see a lot of cases that wouldn't have a good option for a control country, especially east-west routes.
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Re: OLD and NEW
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2021, 12:18:14 PM »

Too many motorists who hadn't yet updated their GPS units stubbornly insisted on keeping left for M-25 despite the signs and found themselves on the bridge heading into Canada.  (A friend of mine who worked for MDOT at the time told me it happened with a few dozen people a day.)  So not long after the new signs above went up, MDOT replaced them again with newer signs displaying American and Canadian flag graphics, adding a yellow toll banner, and replacing the "Fort Gratiot" control with "USA."

I heard a story of someone who made that mistake while carrying a legal-in-Michigan gun.  It would've been illegal in Canada, of course.  Unfortunately, when he told the Canadian border guards, they arrested him rather than just letting him U-turn back to the United States.
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Re: OLD and NEW
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2021, 10:47:15 PM »

Eastbound US-6/US-24 split east of Napoleon, OH before the US-24 Fort-to-Port expressway project (note that US-6 was considered the primary route)...


... and after (now US-24 is the primary route).


Southbound I-75 in Toledo before the freeway was realigned a few years ago to switch the I-280 exit from the left side to the right side...


... and after.


Eastbound M-50 at M-43/M-66 in Lake Odessa, MI before sign replacement...


... and after.


Eastbound I-96 at Novi Road before 2017 sign replacement...


... and after.

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Re: OLD and NEW
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2021, 11:52:27 PM »


... and after.


The east 43 and west 43 assemblies really need to be swapped here.
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Re: OLD and NEW
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2021, 11:22:45 AM »

I think they should have used three posts.
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Re: OLD and NEW
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2021, 09:13:28 PM »

Westbound M-14 at US-23 in Ann Arbor before sign replacement...


... and after.


Northbound I-75 at I-96 in downtown Detroit before 2008-2009 reconstruction...


... and after.


Westbound I-696 in Farmington Hills, approaching I-96/I-275/M-5 before 2017 sign replacement...


... and after.


Eastbound M-5 in the I-96/I-275/I-696 interchange in Novi before 2019 sign replacement...


... and after (Michigan says "Wind load?  What wind load?").

« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 09:18:35 PM by wanderer2575 »
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