Speed enforcement and tolerance

[zachary_amaryllis]

The presence of cops running radar conveys the threat of legal consequences, which indirectly controls traffic through driver compliance

way back when when i lived in a little town called nunn...

i went up to the sheriff's car that was parked kinda behind a grain elevator, clearly shooting radar down us-85. i approached correctly, said i had a question. he's like 'sure!'

i asked him what he was doing, and he replied 'we're trying to slow traffic down through here'. the speed limit goes from 65 to i think 45 or 50 at the town line.
i said 'well, why don't you park where you can be seen? no one in their right mind is going to speed past you. if you're just radarring people, that doesn't slow them down.'

he didn't have a coherent answer.

[Discussion split from the "Unique, Odd, or Interesting Signs aka The good, the bad, and the ugly" thread. -S.]

[ClassicHasClass]

When I drove US 6 Bishop to Cape Cod in 2006, passing through a little town called Butler near the IN-OH border, the speed limit abruptly dropped to 35 and Butler's finest (possibly Butler's only finest) swung in behind me. I already saw him and was already under 35. He tailgated me all the way through town on US 6 until I got to the other side of the town limits, whereupon another car going the other way failed to notice his presence and flew by, and he turned on his lights, executed a tight U-ey and pulled them over.

I never speed in small towns. Coincidentally, my one and only speeding ticket so far was just outside of Bishop, on US 395.

[US 89]

To be honest, probably the most fear-inducing experience you can have as a driver is being tailgated by a cop. I once had a cop tail me all the way from Talbotton to Geneva GA along US 80, which I realize is less than 8 miles but it felt a hell of a lot longer. The speed limit was 55, I was going exactly 55, and he rode my ass so close I was nervous to slow down where the limit drops heading into Geneva simply out of fear he would rear-end me. And of course, he did not take advantage of the passing lane that appeared halfway through. He was most definitely looking for a reason to pull me over with my Utah plates.

[jakeroot]

To be honest, probably the most fear-inducing experience you can have as a driver is being tailgated by a cop. I once had a cop tail me all the way from Talbotton to Geneva GA along US 80, which I realize is less than 8 miles but it felt a hell of a lot longer. The speed limit was 55, I was going exactly 55, and he rode my ass so close I was nervous to slow down where the limit drops heading into Geneva simply out of fear he would rear-end me. And of course, he did not take advantage of the passing lane that appeared halfway through. He was most definitely looking for a reason to pull me over with my Utah plates.

He probably wanted you to speed up. I always go around 6-8 mph over the limit when I see a cop. Higher on the freeway or roads with similar limits.

[1995hoo]

To be honest, probably the most fear-inducing experience you can have as a driver is being tailgated by a cop. I once had a cop tail me all the way from Talbotton to Geneva GA along US 80, which I realize is less than 8 miles but it felt a hell of a lot longer. The speed limit was 55, I was going exactly 55, and he rode my ass so close I was nervous to slow down where the limit drops heading into Geneva simply out of fear he would rear-end me. And of course, he did not take advantage of the passing lane that appeared halfway through. He was most definitely looking for a reason to pull me over with my Utah plates.

He probably wanted you to speed up. I always go around 6-8 mph over the limit when I see a cop. Higher on the freeway or roads with similar limits.

Heh, whereas in May 1997 I was driving south on I-59 in Georgia and a cop was behind me hitting me repeatedly with instant-on X-band (I was using a Valentine One). I set the cruise control at 68 mph in the 70-mph zone and just left it there all the way to the Alabama state line, and the stupid cop kept blasting his radar at me all the way to the state line, at which point he turned around. I kept wondering why he was bothering, as it should have been obvious I knew he was there, even with Virginia plates that might suggest I didn't have a radar detector.

[Scott5114]

To be honest, probably the most fear-inducing experience you can have as a driver is being tailgated by a cop.

You've got that right. The last time I got pulled over I was right in front of Riverwind Casino in Goldsby and was being tailed by an OHP cruiser. I looked down and made damn sure my cruise was set for 45 exactly–only to look up and notice I was sailing right through the red light at Bankers Drive. Naturally he turned on his lights and pulled me over.

He walks up to the window, says something like "Well, you weren't speeding, but you didn't even try to stop for that red light, did you?" And I told him, "Yeah, I saw you in the rearview, had my eye on the speedometer, and didn't even notice the light had changed." He takes my license and registration, runs them, brings them back, and says "Be more careful next time", and that was it.

[kphoger]

The presence of cops running radar conveys the threat of legal consequences, which indirectly controls traffic through driver compliance

way back when when i lived in a little town called nunn...

i went up to the sheriff's car that was parked kinda behind a grain elevator, clearly shooting radar down us-85. i approached correctly, said i had a question. he's like 'sure!'

i asked him what he was doing, and he replied 'we're trying to slow traffic down through here'. the speed limit goes from 65 to i think 45 or 50 at the town line.
i said 'well, why don't you park where you can be seen? no one in their right mind is going to speed past you. if you're just radarring people, that doesn't slow them down.'

he didn't have a coherent answer.

They make it so you never know when a cop might be clocking your speed.  That way, you don't only slow down when you see a cop car, but rather keep your speed down just in case there's one you don't see.

To be honest, probably the most fear-inducing experience you can have as a driver is being tailgated by a cop.

On the first short-term missions trip I led to Mexico, I was leading another car along the free portion of Carr. Fed. 40 between Saltillo and Paila.  The speed limit there is 80 km/h, and we were driving a consistent 105 km/h–which is typical there.  I looked in my mirror and saw a federal close behind us.  He must have come zooming up, because I look in my mirror fairly often and hadn't noticed him earlier.  He didn't have his lights on, but he wasn't passing us either.  The highway was razor-straight with hardly any oncoming traffic, but still he just tailed us for several miles.  Eventually, he finally passed us, then quickly got off the highway at a small junction and got out of the car to do who knows what (we were gone by then).

I never slowed down from my 105 km/h the whole time.  And he never pulled us over.  When we got to our destination, the other driver told me he'd never been so nervous in his life!

[interstatefan990]

I always go around 6-8 mph over the limit when I see a cop. Higher on the freeway or roads with similar limits.

That's a great way to get yourself a speeding ticket.

To be honest, probably the most fear-inducing experience you can have as a driver is being tailgated by a cop.

I have experienced this a number of times as well. My solution is usually to continue for a few miles to see if they'll give up, and if they don't, I pull into a public area like a shopping center parking lot or mall driveway and loop around. Most of the time they'll go away, thinking I'm going inside.

[vdeane]

I pull into a public area like a shopping center parking lot or mall driveway and loop around. Most of the time they'll go away, thinking I'm going inside.

And the times they don't go away?

[ClassicHasClass]

I pull into a public area like a shopping center parking lot or mall driveway and loop around. Most of the time they'll go away, thinking I'm going inside.

And the times they don't go away?

At that point, invite them in for a donut, since they're probably gonna ding you anyway.

[hbelkins]

I pull into a public area like a shopping center parking lot or mall driveway and loop around. Most of the time they'll go away, thinking I'm going inside.

And the times they don't go away?

Then you get out, go in, and look around or buy something.

My V1 alerted me to the approaching presence of a cop yesterday, then the Kentucky State Police trooper revealed himself in my rear-view mirror. I was in a 35 mph zone that soon increased to 45 mph, and I kept at or very near the speed limit. Thought about turning into a grocery store parking lot, but kept going. The cop never got right up on my bumper and never made any effort to pass me despite having opportunities. The 45 zone turned to 55, and he kept pace with me. Only when the road grew a passing lane and I moved over to the right did he go by, and then he sped off and it wasn't long before he was out of view.

[interstatefan990]

I pull into a public area like a shopping center parking lot or mall driveway and loop around. Most of the time they'll go away, thinking I'm going inside.

And the times they don't go away?

If they still don't go away, they're probably not going to. At that point, you could either choose to keep driving around hoping they will, or to get out and ask if you can help them. It's pretty rare that this happens though, they almost never continue following you for more than a half hour or so. A last resort would be to go to your home or private property, they legally cannot enter there without a warrant or probable cause. An old coworker of mine actually had to do this once when a Tennessee Highway Patrol trooper tailgated him for about 30 miles with his kids in the car.

[jakeroot]

I always go around 6-8 mph over the limit when I see a cop. Higher on the freeway or roads with similar limits.

That's a great way to get yourself a speeding ticket.

Not from my experience. 6 to 8 is the standard "over" amount in the areas I drive (for example, 31-33 in a 25 is more than OK). Going exactly the limit is telling the cop you're hiding something.

Less than 10 over on the freeway has a 0% chance of getting stopped unless there's something else going on (group of teens, missing front plate, heavily tinted windows, etc).

[tolbs17]

How about speeding past a car cause they are driving too slow.

[jakeroot]

How about speeding past a car cause they are driving too slow.

In Washington State, you can exceed the speed limit to overtake a vehicle. But only if the overtaken vehicle is not going the limit. Relevant law: RCW 46.61.425

On a multi-lane roadway, the car going much slower than everyone else is more likely to catch the attention of the cop.

[kphoger]

In Washington State, you can exceed the speed limit to overtake a vehicle. But only if the overtaken vehicle is not going the limit. Relevant law: RCW 46.61.425

That seems like it would be rather difficult to prove from the officer's point of view.  What did he do, clock you both at the same time?

[1995hoo]

How about speeding past a car cause they are driving too slow.

That's Crash_It's job.

[kphoger]

How about speeding past a car cause they are driving too slow.

That's Crash_It's job.

Hey, quite dropping the mic like that.  It's bad for the equipment.

[jakeroot]

In Washington State, you can exceed the speed limit to overtake a vehicle. But only if the overtaken vehicle is not going the limit. Relevant law: RCW 46.61.425

That seems like it would be rather difficult to prove from the officer's point of view.  What did he do, clock you both at the same time?

I think it's a 'benefit of the doubt' situation. If a cop witnesses an overtake, I think the rule of thumb is to just put the radar gun down.

[interstatefan990]

I always go around 6-8 mph over the limit when I see a cop. Higher on the freeway or roads with similar limits.

That's a great way to get yourself a speeding ticket.

Not from my experience. 6 to 8 is the standard "over" amount in the areas I drive (for example, 31-33 in a 25 is more than OK). Going exactly the limit is telling the cop you're hiding something.

Less than 10 over on the freeway has a 0% chance of getting stopped unless there's something else going on (group of teens, missing front plate, heavily tinted windows, etc).

You ever heard of revenue-hungry small towns? They will set up speed traps (like where the limit drops) and literally ticket you for 4-5 mph over. And you cannot convince me that a driver can go 9 over on any freeway and have a guarantee that they won't get pulled over. Not even close. That's 74 in a 65, or 84 in a 75, I've seen plenty of people get ticketed for those speeds or less.

[kphoger]

I always go around 6-8 mph over the limit when I see a cop. Higher on the freeway or roads with similar limits.

That's a great way to get yourself a speeding ticket.

Not from my experience. 6 to 8 is the standard "over" amount in the areas I drive (for example, 31-33 in a 25 is more than OK). Going exactly the limit is telling the cop you're hiding something.

Less than 10 over on the freeway has a 0% chance of getting stopped unless there's something else going on (group of teens, missing front plate, heavily tinted windows, etc).

You ever heard of revenue-hungry small towns? They will set up speed traps (like where the limit drops) and literally ticket you for 4-5 mph over. And you cannot convince me that a driver can go 9 over on any freeway and have a guarantee that they won't get pulled over. Not even close. That's 74 in a 65, or 84 in a 75, I've seen plenty of people get ticketed for those speeds or less.

What exactly are you saying?  That Jake is being dishonest about his own experience?  More likely is that he hasn't done a lot of driving in places that match your description.  I see your location is on the other side of the nation from his.  How much driving have you done outside your own area?

FWIW, the only time I've ever been pulled over for less than 10 mph over the limit was on an Oklahoma turnpike, where they have tabs on the speed limit signs saying "strictly enforced".  And that includes doing going by cops at 74 in 65 zones (Interstates all over Illinois before the limit was raised).

[interstatefan990]

I always go around 6-8 mph over the limit when I see a cop. Higher on the freeway or roads with similar limits.

That's a great way to get yourself a speeding ticket.

Not from my experience. 6 to 8 is the standard "over" amount in the areas I drive (for example, 31-33 in a 25 is more than OK). Going exactly the limit is telling the cop you're hiding something.

Less than 10 over on the freeway has a 0% chance of getting stopped unless there's something else going on (group of teens, missing front plate, heavily tinted windows, etc).

You ever heard of revenue-hungry small towns? They will set up speed traps (like where the limit drops) and literally ticket you for 4-5 mph over. And you cannot convince me that a driver can go 9 over on any freeway and have a guarantee that they won't get pulled over. Not even close. That's 74 in a 65, or 84 in a 75, I've seen plenty of people get ticketed for those speeds or less.

What exactly are you saying?  That Jake is being dishonest about his own experience?  More likely is that he hasn't done a lot of driving in places that match your description.  I see your location is on the other side of the nation from his.  How much driving have you done outside your own area?

FWIW, the only time I've ever been pulled over for less than 10 mph over the limit was on an Oklahoma turnpike, where they have tabs on the speed limit signs saying "strictly enforced".  And that includes doing going by cops at 74 in 65 zones (Interstates all over Illinois before the limit was raised).

I'm not delegitimizing or denying his experience at all. I'm simply saying that there are different realities, so his isn't all-encompassing (which is true for any of our experiences). I have done plenty of driving outside of my area, I've been in more than 3/4 of the states including yours. However, the only time I've been in Washington was in the back of a taxi on I-405. The driver stayed at around 64 MPH the entire time with the 60 MPH limit, and we only got passed every minute or so. There wasn't even that many police cars along the way either. I have never been pulled over in all of my driving, and I mainly attribute that to always trying my best to keep my speed within 5 over.

"Match your description"? What does that mean?

[jakeroot]

I always go around 6-8 mph over the limit when I see a cop. Higher on the freeway or roads with similar limits.

That's a great way to get yourself a speeding ticket.

Not from my experience. 6 to 8 is the standard "over" amount in the areas I drive (for example, 31-33 in a 25 is more than OK). Going exactly the limit is telling the cop you're hiding something.

Less than 10 over on the freeway has a 0% chance of getting stopped unless there's something else going on (group of teens, missing front plate, heavily tinted windows, etc).

You ever heard of revenue-hungry small towns? They will set up speed traps (like where the limit drops) and literally ticket you for 4-5 mph over. And you cannot convince me that a driver can go 9 over on any freeway and have a guarantee that they won't get pulled over. Not even close. That's 74 in a 65, or 84 in a 75, I've seen plenty of people get ticketed for those speeds or less.

What exactly are you saying?  That Jake is being dishonest about his own experience?  More likely is that he hasn't done a lot of driving in places that match your description.  I see your location is on the other side of the nation from his.  How much driving have you done outside your own area?

FWIW, the only time I've ever been pulled over for less than 10 mph over the limit was on an Oklahoma turnpike, where they have tabs on the speed limit signs saying "strictly enforced".  And that includes doing going by cops at 74 in 65 zones (Interstates all over Illinois before the limit was raised).

I'm not delegitimizing or denying his experience at all. I'm simply saying that there are different realities, so his isn't all-encompassing (which is true for any of our experiences). I have done plenty of driving outside of my area, I've been in more than 3/4 of the states including yours. However, the only time I've been in Washington was in the back of a taxi on I-405. The driver stayed at around 64 MPH the entire time with the 60 MPH limit, and we only got passed every minute or so. There wasn't even that many police cars along the way either. I have never been pulled over in all of my driving, and I mainly attribute that to always trying my best to keep my speed within 5 over.

"Match your description"? What does that mean?

"Match your description" of small towns that are revenue hungry. That's a thing I've only seen in movies. To think it's a real thing is laughable to me. Cops around here don't just sit and write tickets for 5 over or something. Even in tiny little towns. People joke about it, but it's hardly a real thing.

Your experience of the 405 has not been my experience; perhaps it was limited by traffic? Also perhaps physics, as it's quite curvy and hilly. In the straights, and especially along other freeways like I-90 or I-5, average speeds are well in excess of the limit, at least in the left few lanes (no doubt there are people going closer to the limit in the right-most lanes). The 405 also moves wicked fast north of Bellevue with the express lanes setup. 70 (in a 60) is the minimum speed in the left lanes; 75 to 80 is more common when traffic isn't burdening the flow. Which is admittedly often.

[US 89]

I always go around 6-8 mph over the limit when I see a cop. Higher on the freeway or roads with similar limits.

That's a great way to get yourself a speeding ticket.

Not from my experience. 6 to 8 is the standard "over" amount in the areas I drive (for example, 31-33 in a 25 is more than OK). Going exactly the limit is telling the cop you're hiding something.

Less than 10 over on the freeway has a 0% chance of getting stopped unless there's something else going on (group of teens, missing front plate, heavily tinted windows, etc).

You ever heard of revenue-hungry small towns? They will set up speed traps (like where the limit drops) and literally ticket you for 4-5 mph over. And you cannot convince me that a driver can go 9 over on any freeway and have a guarantee that they won't get pulled over. Not even close. That's 74 in a 65, or 84 in a 75, I've seen plenty of people get ticketed for those speeds or less.

What exactly are you saying?  That Jake is being dishonest about his own experience?  More likely is that he hasn't done a lot of driving in places that match your description.  I see your location is on the other side of the nation from his.  How much driving have you done outside your own area?

FWIW, the only time I've ever been pulled over for less than 10 mph over the limit was on an Oklahoma turnpike, where they have tabs on the speed limit signs saying "strictly enforced".  And that includes doing going by cops at 74 in 65 zones (Interstates all over Illinois before the limit was raised).

I'm not delegitimizing or denying his experience at all. I'm simply saying that there are different realities, so his isn't all-encompassing (which is true for any of our experiences). I have done plenty of driving outside of my area, I've been in more than 3/4 of the states including yours. However, the only time I've been in Washington was in the back of a taxi on I-405. The driver stayed at around 64 MPH the entire time with the 60 MPH limit, and we only got passed every minute or so. There wasn't even that many police cars along the way either. I have never been pulled over in all of my driving, and I mainly attribute that to always trying my best to keep my speed within 5 over.

"Match your description"? What does that mean?

"Match your description" of small towns that are revenue hungry. That's a thing I've only seen in movies. To think it's a real thing is laughable to me. Cops around here don't just sit and write tickets for 5 over or something. Even in tiny little towns. People joke about it, but it's hardly a real thing.

In my experience small towns are notorious for squeezing every dollar they can out of speeding fines from out-of-towners. Especially if you have out-of-state license plates. It is absolutely a real thing. See Mantua, Utah, which used to derive 1/3 of its revenue from an artificially lowered limit on US 89/91 ... which already bypasses the town. Wellington, Utah is also fairly well known for it but isn't nearly as blatant.

I will also add that this does apply to freeways too. On I-80 through the Park City area, the limit is 65 and Summit County cops will definitely pull you over if you're going more than 72 or so.

[cl94]

"Match your description" of small towns that are revenue hungry. That's a thing I've only seen in movies. To think it's a real thing is laughable to me. Cops around here don't just sit and write tickets for 5 over or something. Even in tiny little towns. People joke about it, but it's hardly a real thing.

Come to small town New York or Ohio sometime. There are places that will very happily pull you over for 2 over and find everything wrong with your car to write a ticket for. I know because I see it frequently. There are towns out here who own one car...and said car is always running radar. Sometimes hidden between tombstones in a cemetery (I've seen that in multiple towns).