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What is the max distance for which "TO" should be used?

Started by webny99, May 06, 2021, 08:15:56 AM

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Roadgeekteen

Quote from: Scott5114 on May 06, 2021, 06:17:05 PM
Quote from: stridentweasel on May 06, 2021, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 06, 2021, 04:58:15 PM
You even need two numbers to get to I-70!

Yeah, the KTA isn't really good at pointing that out.  The KTA isn't as good at signage as KDOT is, IMO.

Also of note is that you don't really have to do anything special to reach I-70. The turnpike defaults you onto I-335 here, and when that ends you're defaulted onto I-470 east, and when that ends you're defaulted onto I-70 east toward Kansas City. You don't have to exit at any point to reach any of those.

KTA signage is gradually improving as they replace the old signs from the 90s with some that are more KDOT-like. They still have a ways to go, though.

Quote from: stridentweasel on May 06, 2021, 05:04:17 PM
Unless you're looking for I-70 westbound, in which case, you have to know to take westbound I-470.  Unless you want to drive the Turnpike for an extra five miles, and then needlessly take I-70 all the way through Topeka.

Of course, if you're looking to use I-70 westbound, depending on how far west you're going, the best route is probably to exit onto I-35 and take K-99 north from Emporia. So maybe "To East 70" would be the best thing to put on the sign.
To I-70 isn't signed for I-470 west, but Salina is signed.
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Scott5114

I was referring to the sign in Emporia that was linked.

Interestingly, the older version of the sign (shown here in 2006) explicitly linked Kansas City and I-70:
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index

Is 19 miles far for a "TO" trailblazer?

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.8531679,-82.0506628,3a,42.8y,212.96h,94.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1seFwM7Em0D-gH4m6whiVU9Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

TO I-40 at Gillespie Gap on NC 226. I wouldn't consider it unreasonable, it's an almost straight shot from that point with very little other intersecting routes and an important route in the area to get to Marion and I-40.
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Roadgeekteen

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paulthemapguy

Here's a thought: maybe there should be a standard maximum distance for "TO" markers without a mileage clarification; "TO" markers pointing to a route or destination beyond a certain distance shall be required to include a mileage measurement.
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Roadgeekteen

Quote from: paulthemapguy on May 24, 2021, 12:14:33 AM
Here's a thought: maybe there should be a standard maximum distance for "TO" markers without a mileage clarification; "TO" markers pointing to a route or destination beyond a certain distance shall be required to include a mileage measurement.
Anything over a couple of miles I would put a mileage number.
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Current Interstate map I am making:

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ran4sh

Quote from: paulthemapguy on May 24, 2021, 12:14:33 AM
Here's a thought: maybe there should be a standard maximum distance for "TO" markers without a mileage clarification; "TO" markers pointing to a route or destination beyond a certain distance shall be required to include a mileage measurement.

Maybe, but I would think as long as the state DOT is only posting relevant "TO"/trailblazers, then there's no reason to be concerned that they are being overused or inappropriately used.
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wxfree

I see this differently.  You could sign I-90 as "To I-5" at I-95.  That's obviously an absurdity.  To me, the "To" sign should have a special purpose, not just to indicate what other highways can be reached by going that way.  One example is nearby me in Burleson, Texas.  Renfro Street, which was previously Spur 50, but is now a city street, is signed as "To Texas 174" on I-35W northbound.  When it was Spur 50, it was signed as that and as "To Texas 174."  The reason is that there's no direct way to get from northbound I-35W to SH 174, the north end of which is at their intersection.  It's marked "To" not because the other highway is close, but because it's the way to get to that other highway.

Woodall Rodgers Freeway, Spur 366 in Dallas, is signed as "To US 75" and as "To I-35E" because it's meant to carry traffic interchanging between those routes.  It's basically a long set of ramps between the two freeways.  It isn't signed as "To" just because the other freeways are close together, but because it's often a better way to get between them, since the other connecting freeway is the often-congested Canyon section of I-30.

To me, "To" represents function, not proximity.  A "To" road is one that is meant to connect other highways, not to be a notification that another highway is nearby.
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US 89

I agree with that. For another example, take US 89 and I-15 in southern Utah. They run on opposite sides of a mountain range 20 miles apart... but that doesn't stop UDOT from signing roads like SR 20 with a trailblazer I-15 shield... and as far as I'm concerned that's totally fine. The point of 20 is to get me over to 15 where I can continue north along a faster road.

Rothman

I like the idea of marking "TO I-95" on I-5 at I-90.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Roadsguy

Quote from: Rothman on May 25, 2021, 06:46:59 AM
I like the idea of marking "TO I-95" on I-5 at I-90.

Nah, go all the way and sign "To MA 1A" instead.
Mileage-based exit numbering implies the existence of mileage-cringe exit numbering.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: Roadsguy on May 25, 2021, 09:30:46 AM
Quote from: Rothman on May 25, 2021, 06:46:59 AM
I like the idea of marking "TO I-95" on I-5 at I-90.

Nah, go all the way and sign "To MA 1A" instead.
Mark "TO South America" on I-35 south.
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Current Interstate map I am making:

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WillWeaverRVA

There is an unconventional I-40 trailblazer on US 220 near Rocky Mount, VA with a distance of 76 miles. It doesn't have a "TO" banner, but I could have sworn it did at some point and I figured I'd mention it anyway. It was installed to reduce confusion with VA 40, which exits just ahead...but I'm not sure that confusion is common at all.
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sprjus4

Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on May 25, 2021, 10:29:41 AM
There is an unconventional I-40 trailblazer on US 220 near Rocky Mount, VA with a distance of 76 miles. It doesn't have a "TO" banner, but I could have sworn it did at some point and I figured I'd mention it anyway. It was installed to reduce confusion with VA 40, which exits just ahead...but I'm not sure that confusion is common at all.
What's surprising, is even with the construction of the I-73 and Greensboro Urban Loop segments, the distance is actually just about accurate (Google Maps shows about 76 miles between that point and the I-40 junction on the west side of Greensboro following US-220 and I-73 / I-840. It would've been a few miles off given the pre-existing alignment that US-220 currently follows through Downtown Greensboro and down the US-29 quasi-freeway and meeting I-40 there.

hbelkins

Kentucky will sign "To" trailblazers for parkways and interstates as far away as 30-something miles.


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WillWeaverRVA

Quote from: sprjus4 on May 25, 2021, 10:33:31 AM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on May 25, 2021, 10:29:41 AM
There is an unconventional I-40 trailblazer on US 220 near Rocky Mount, VA with a distance of 76 miles. It doesn't have a "TO" banner, but I could have sworn it did at some point and I figured I'd mention it anyway. It was installed to reduce confusion with VA 40, which exits just ahead...but I'm not sure that confusion is common at all.
What's surprising, is even with the construction of the I-73 and Greensboro Urban Loop segments, the distance is actually just about accurate (Google Maps shows about 76 miles between that point and the I-40 junction on the west side of Greensboro following US-220 and I-73 / I-840. It would've been a few miles off given the pre-existing alignment that US-220 currently follows through Downtown Greensboro and down the US-29 quasi-freeway and meeting I-40 there.

Interestingly, some version of that sign has been there for a while. It's on @Alps' website, and it did have a "to" banner at one time.
Will Weaver
WillWeaverRVA Photography | Twitter

"But how will the oxen know where to drown if we renumber the Oregon Trail?" - NE2



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