AARoads Forum

National Boards => Bridges => Topic started by: ixnay on January 11, 2018, 08:16:32 AM

Title: Tunnel Or Bridge Across Long Island Sound Would Cost $55 Billion
Post by: ixnay on January 11, 2018, 08:16:32 AM
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/01/09/cross-sound-tunnel-bridge-cost/

ixnay
Title: Re: Tunnel Or Bridge Across Long Island Sound Would Cost $55 Billion
Post by: Rothman on January 11, 2018, 08:46:34 AM
NY to Whackadoos:  Get bent.

The study itself was a tremendous waste of money.

(personal opinion emphasized)
Title: Re: Tunnel Or Bridge Across Long Island Sound Would Cost $55 Billion
Post by: D-Dey65 on January 11, 2018, 10:40:20 AM
New York State Department of Transportation; Making drivers suffer since the ouster of Robert Moses. Spending more money on studies and catering to NIMBYists than actually improving the roads.

Title: Re: Tunnel Or Bridge Across Long Island Sound Would Cost $55 Billion
Post by: Rothman on January 11, 2018, 11:22:43 AM
New York State Department of Transportation; Making drivers suffer since the ouster of Robert Moses. Spending more money on studies and catering to NIMBYists than actually improving the roads.
Yeah, being fiscally responsible and killing an idea that would not pass a cost-benefit analysis is a horrible thing.  Study was forced upon NYSDOT through political pressure from whackadoos in power on Long Island.

(personal opinion emphasized)
Title: Re: Tunnel Or Bridge Across Long Island Sound Would Cost $55 Billion
Post by: sparker on January 11, 2018, 04:56:00 PM
I'd venture a guess that the amount of direct LI-CT traffic is very small compared to the direct commute into NYC itself; at this point -- with the residential costs endemic to the whole region -- that there's not a lot of commute needs between central/outer LI and CT; no crossing concept would pass a C/B analysis.  In addition to this, there's not a location for the crossing that would not exacerbate congestion on at least one side of the Sound; a crossing closer to NYC (let's say around Sea Cliff) would require a morning westbound ride within LI in conjunction with the major directional commute, adding to that load (and the traffic once in CT would fan out in multiple directions, some of it further adding to that weekday congestion).  An outer crossing (hitting CT east of New Haven) might avoid those issues in LI but definitely add them in CT -- not to mention requiring additional costs of a longer bridge/tunnel facility and an out-of-the-way commute.  Any such crossing would likely cause more problems than it solves!

Now -- if it were a commuter rail crossing connecting LIRR with Metro North, that might be another story -- but that wouldn't let the Hampton and Darien folks who'd rather use their Benzes and Range Rovers avoid the gaucheness of public transit.   
Title: Re: Tunnel Or Bridge Across Long Island Sound Would Cost $55 Billion
Post by: ixnay on January 11, 2018, 06:45:17 PM
Page 134 of http://506sports.com/forum/index.php?topic=3523.msg1023144#msg1023144 (registration required) is where I got wind of Cuomo's proposal.  And yes, I'm ixnay on there, too.

ixnay

Title: Re: Tunnel Or Bridge Across Long Island Sound Would Cost $55 Billion
Post by: vdeane on January 11, 2018, 07:54:09 PM
I would think the crossing wouldn't be for commuter traffic but rather for through traffic getting between the island and everywhere not NYC.
Title: Re: Tunnel Or Bridge Across Long Island Sound Would Cost $55 Billion
Post by: sparker on January 11, 2018, 08:18:19 PM
I would think the crossing wouldn't be for commuter traffic but rather for through traffic getting between the island and everywhere not NYC.

Have there been any studies done to date regarding projected traffic from LI to CT?  Besides the matter of convenience for some LI (or even CT) residents or businesses, the basic question is: is there either sufficient latent demand for such a crossing or, alternately, a identifiable commercial/economic need for such a facility?  I'd think that before anyone came out in favor of such a proposal, the actual need was established.

But then 2018 is a state election year, and donor checks have to come from somewhere -- and it might as well be the Hamptons!
Title: Re: Tunnel Or Bridge Across Long Island Sound Would Cost $55 Billion
Post by: vdeane on January 11, 2018, 08:23:28 PM
Why would it have to be to CT?  Personally, my preferred alternative is an all-NY extension of I-287.
Title: Re: Tunnel Or Bridge Across Long Island Sound Would Cost $55 Billion
Post by: Duke87 on January 12, 2018, 12:24:15 AM
It wouldn't be just CT. It'd be the way from LI to anywhere from CT to CA.

The issue of exacerbating congestion on at least one end is a valid one, though. Getting from the LIE onto 135 towards the bridge would easily become a major bottleneck.

Such a bridge wouldn't be relieving congestion on other crossings so much as it'd be opening up travel opportunities that simply do not currently exist. To this end, the extra traffic has to go somewhere once it gets off the bridge, so that would inevitably cause problems unless key connecting roads are also widened (making the real full cost of a comprehensive sound crossing project even more out there).
Title: Re: Tunnel Or Bridge Across Long Island Sound Would Cost $55 Billion
Post by: ixnay on January 12, 2018, 07:51:43 AM
The future of the Port Jeff/Bridgeport ferry would probably depend on the proximity of such a bridge.

I imagine the Orient Point/New London ferry would be safe though.

ixnay
Title: Re: Tunnel Or Bridge Across Long Island Sound Would Cost $55 Billion
Post by: D-Dey65 on January 12, 2018, 10:19:49 AM
The future of the Port Jeff/Bridgeport ferry would probably depend on the proximity of such a bridge.
It might help if they'd lower the price of taking the ferry.

I imagine the tolls on the Bayville-Rye Bridge would be a bit higher than most of the ones in the New York Tri-State area, but it might be worth the price even if it doesn't have the amenities that the Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel used to have (i.e.; the Thimble Shoal Restaurant and Gift Shop).



Title: Re: Tunnel Or Bridge Across Long Island Sound Would Cost $55 Billion
Post by: kphoger on January 12, 2018, 01:21:21 PM
NY to Whackadoos:  Get bent.

The study itself was a tremendous waste of money.

(personal opinion emphasized)

New York State Department of Transportation; Making drivers suffer since the ouster of Robert Moses. Spending more money on studies and catering to NIMBYists than actually improving the roads.
Yeah, being fiscally responsible and killing an idea that would not pass a cost-benefit analysis is a horrible thing.  Study was forced upon NYSDOT through political pressure from whackadoos in power on Long Island.

(personal opinion emphasized)

Since nothing was emphasized, I can only assume you have no personal opinion on the matter and that all comments reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.
Title: Re: Tunnel Or Bridge Across Long Island Sound Would Cost $55 Billion
Post by: kkt on January 12, 2018, 03:34:34 PM
Studying a question is not a waste of time.  The cost of a study is very small in comparison to doing a project, and lets us know what's feasible and what isn't, as opposed to our preconceptions about it.

Title: Re: Tunnel Or Bridge Across Long Island Sound Would Cost $55 Billion
Post by: lordsutch on January 12, 2018, 05:44:58 PM
Clearly they're assuming it would be built by MTA... $3 billion/mile seems to be about their going, heavily inflated rate for projects.

That said, as has been suggested for New York Harbor, we may end up needing to construct a flood barrier across Long Island Sound anyway, which would allow the roadway to be built basically as rounding error on top of flood barrier costs (much like the A7 freeway across the Afsluitdijk in the Netherlands).