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Speed Limit 65 -> Speed 55 -> Speed Limit 55

Started by doorknob60, September 05, 2017, 04:38:34 PM

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doorknob60

Over the weekend, I finally visited Central Oregon again: first time since the new 65 MPH speed limits. I noticed some weird signage in some of the transition areas. I always thought that these days, "SPEED" and "SPEED LIMIT" had the same legal meaning in Oregon, but now I'm not so sure. I'll be grabbing these pictures from GSV Northbound US-97 approaching La Pine, but I saw the exact same thing on SB US-97, and on WB US-20 approaching Bend.

OK, so starting off, we're in the new "SPEED LIMIT 65 (TRUCKS 60)" zone. Then, you see this sign:


 

OK, so they took the normal version of this sign, and blacked out the "LIMIT". Weird, but whatever, nothing too confusing.

As you'd expect, shortly after, you hit this:

 


OK, here's where it gets really weird. This is about a mile or 2 down the road. The "SPEED 55" zone is still in effect. Then you see this sign:

 


OK, so you're warning me that the speed is lowering from 55 to 55?


 


Well, warning you of a change from 55 to 55 doesn't make sense. But maybe, they are trying to warn you that it's changing from a "SPEED" to a "SPEED LIMIT". OK, but I thought those were legally the same thing. Eg. a cop can pull you over and give you the same ticket if you're speeding in either case.

Does someone have any idea what's going on? First time I saw it, I thought it was just an oversight and maybe when they expanded the 55 zones to be a bit longer, they left the old signs up too. But this same exact thing happens in at least 3 different places, so I can't really say it's an oversight. Can someone clear this up?


vdeane

Yeah, they're not legally the same thing.  For "speed limit 55", going over 55 is in and of itself illegal, and the ticket is specifically for exceeding the number on the sign.  For "speed 55", going over 55 is, in fact, perfectly legal, however it IS considered evidence in and of itself (as in, you're guilty until proven innocent) that you're driving too fast for conditions.  THAT is what the ticket would be for in a "speed 55" zone, and the ticket could be dismissed by proving that your travel speed is reasonable and prudent.

Whether that actually amounts to any difference in practice is another matter.  But still, in theory, "speed limit 55" is more restrictive than "speed 55".
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

sp_redelectric

Violating a "Speed 55" sign is a violation of ORS 811.100 - The "Basic Rule" (drive at a speed that is reasonable and prudent...).

Violating a "Speed Limit XX" sign is a violation of ORS 811.111 - "Violating a speed limit".

Why there is even a difference is beyond me, since the penalties for violating either are ORS 811.109 - meaning the penalty (fines, possible license suspension) are exactly the same.  Welcome to the Oregon Legislature, the same body that royally screwed up "fixing" the school speed zone law.

doorknob60

#3
Huh. And I thought I understood that crap, taking drivers ed and reading the manual and traffic laws all in Oregon, plus spending time on here. Turns out, the more you look into it, the less it makes sense  :-D Especially since most cities, and some state highways (eg. I-84 between Troutdale and The Dalles, unless they've replaced the "SPEED" ones by now) use the two signs totally interchangeably (eg. you'll see both types of signs on the same road with the same numerical limit). This is just the first time I've seen ODOT do something tangible (on the road, not just on paper) that leads me to believe that they aren't interchangeable. If they didn't have the warning sign for "Speed Limit 55 ahead" in an already Speed 55 zone, I wouldn't have even given it a second thought.

Reading both your responses though, it makes slightly more sense now, I think.

corco

I think the situation got kind of muddled when "speed limit" signs were first allowed - because at that point they had the exact same meaning. The Oregon Driver's Manual says "speed signs may or may not have the word limit on them." The issue was that the feds wanted "speed limit" signs on the interstate highways - but those "speed limit 65" signs were still legally just "speed 65" signs.

When ODOT re-defined school zones to be formal speed limits, that's where the switch in meaning happened - where "speed limit 20" had a clear distinction from a normal "speed" sign. Once the state legislature passed the law raising speed limits in eastern/central Oregon, those were also "speed limits" with a clear distinction.

It's therefore safe to say that on those rural highways (such as 97) where the speed limit was raised, there is a clear distinction between a "speed" and "speed limit" sign. In school zones, a "speed limit 20" sign means "speed limit."

In the older, legacy areas - such as random speed signs within city limits or on I-5, I don't think there is a distinction between whether a sign has the word "speed" or "speed limit" - since those predate ODOT making a formal type of distinction.



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