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Corridor H

Started by CanesFan27, September 20, 2009, 03:01:17 PM

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cpzilliacus

Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 30, 2013, 11:52:05 AM
A road that big should probably have cell tower coverage. 

Someone pointed out to me elsewhere that some or all of eastern Corridor H is within the United States National Radio Quiet Zone, which it is!

In addition to the relatively small (and spread-out) resident population, that might explain why there is relatively little cell phone coverage along most of eastern Corridor H.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.


cpzilliacus

Quote from: mtfallsmikey on July 30, 2013, 12:29:42 PM
Not sure if I'll ever see it completed to I-81 in my lifetime, Va. will not spend the money, unless W.V./Feds lay it out. it will go right thru property that belongs to folks who have owned land on the proposed right of way for generations, about 3 mi. from me.

I suspect that the financial arrangements can be worked out.  Especially since it's not "regular" federal highway funding, but ARC highway funding.

Quote from: mtfallsmikey on July 30, 2013, 12:29:42 PM
I understand that some time ago, W.Va. was seeking money from DHS to complete the road, on the basis that it would serve as an emergency evac. route out of the D.C. Metro area in case SHTF... (Do we need all of those city folk coming out into our neck of the woods?)

I am not so confident that just getting everyone to get in their car and drive to West Virginia would work very well.

Quote from: mtfallsmikey on July 30, 2013, 12:29:42 PM
Used to hear Pastor Lon's words of wisdom on WTOP, but listen to Sirius/WMAL mostly now.

He's on WMAL and Sirius? I was not aware of that.

Quote from: mtfallsmikey on July 30, 2013, 12:29:42 PM
I still have the original (thick!) binder for the planning of Corridor H, got it at a meeting I went to in Wardensville a long time ago....

The arguments about Corridor H have been going on  for decades, and apparently it will be several more decades until it is complete all the way from I-79 at Weston to I-81.

Quote from: mtfallsmikey on July 30, 2013, 12:29:42 PM
I don't really consider it obstructionist to not fund a highway that primarily benefits W.Va. (nothing personal to those residents), but no Fed $$, no road, why should we Virginians pick up the entire tab for it?

I agree that most of the benefits of getting four lane Corridor H connected to I-81 will accrue to West Virginia, though as we have been discussing here quite a bit, I believe there is some benefit to improving truck access to the Virginia Inland Port, located on U.S. 340/522 north of Front Royal.  But I also think it could have an added benefit of removing at least some truck trips from I-81 between Strasburg and I-64 west near Lexington. That ought to win the project some added support in Virginia.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

J N Winkler

Quote from: 1995hoo on July 31, 2013, 03:53:20 PMI think a lot of drivers, at least here on the East Coast, seem to have forgotten, or never learned, how to pass on two-lane roads, regardless of whether it's a "Super-2" or a regular old two-lane road. No doubt part of this may be due to a higher percentage of drivers hailing from, and learning to drive in, urban areas and not encountering two-lane roads nearly as often as was the case even 25 years ago. But I'm rather astonished whenever I drive on a two-lane road nowadays (other than a twisty mountain road) and I see how far back people stay even when the guy in front is a slowpoke. The reason it astonishes me is that on the Interstate or in urban areas, the same people are the ones glued to your rear bumper even if there's nowhere you can go. On a two-lane road it can sometimes be darn difficult to pass if you don't close up the gap first. I sometimes wonder how much of this is also a function of the prevalence of automatic-transmission vehicles simply in terms of many drivers not having the sense for understanding how the car's gearing can help execute the pass when necessary.

I think traffic volumes are a more important variable.  A two-lane road is considered to be operating at an acceptable level of service (which for this roadway type is defined in terms of percentage of driving time spent following other vehicles) at AADTs of up to 10,000 VPD in level terrain.  For rolling and mountainous terrain this value drops to 7,000 VPD and 5,000 VPD respectively.  This means that an increase in traffic that is small in both absolute and percentage terms is far more likely to "break" a two-lane road (in terms of LOS) than a four-lane freeway.

The East Coast butts up against the Appalachians, so a fair proportion of its two-lane rural arterial mileage falls within the rolling and mountainous categories.  This region of the country has also seen significant population growth, especially in the Baltimore-Washington area, and that kind of growth brings an increase in traffic volumes in periurban rural areas as well as suburbanization.  I would expect that in the last twenty years, there has been a considerable increase in the mileage of two-lane state highway for which it is no longer a realistic prospect to execute a successful overtaking maneuver during daylight hours.

QuoteOne of the things that irks me about typical US road design is that two-lane roads often have a relatively narrow shoulder (if they have one at all) . . .

Shoulder provision is a function of state DOT design policy, which is typically less generous in this regard in Eastern states than in the Midwest or West, where it is increasingly the norm not just to build a shoulder, but also to surface it with a material that will support movement at high speed.

Quote. . . and even when there is a shoulder, the vast majority of drivers refuse to move to the right while maintaining speed to help others pass.

I think it is unrealistic to expect this courtesy as a matter of course, again because of state-by-state variation in design standards.  Some states extend the crossfall of the traveled way over the shoulder, while other states use a steeper crossfall on the shoulder.  In states that do the latter, a typical crossfall over the traveled way may be 2% (crossfalls range from about 1.5% to 2.5% in the US) while the shoulder crossfall is 4%.  It is difficult to steer smoothly while straddling a grade break that large.

There are also variations in how guardrail is treated, and how shoulder drainage is handled on superelevated curves.  Some states reduce shoulder width to accommodate guardrail.  Some states also start rolling out the superelevation on the high side of the road virtually at the edge line, which leaves only a very narrow width of shoulder that is suitable for maneuvering, generally to recover from tracking errors rather than to allow someone else to pass.

QuoteIn Canada and the parts of Mexico I've visited, it's a given that people do that, especially truck and RV drivers.

You haven't visited Mexico outside Cancún and the surrounding resort areas, have you?  In the parts I have travelled in (mainly Chihuahua and Sonora), there are generally no shoulders, so drivers turn out to allow following vehicles to pass.  In Canada it helps that traffic densities are generally very low outside the 100-mile-wide belt just north of the US border, but there are plenty of places where two-lane roads operate at bad LOS and drivers don't generally pull onto the shoulder to let others pass--when traffic increases beyond a certain point, that just becomes an exercise in exchanging front position in one queue for tail position in another.  When I visited western Canada in 2003, I found long lengths of BC 99 between Vancouver and Whistler and TCH 1 northeast of Kamloops (now being four-laned) that operated that way.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

cpzilliacus

Quote from: J N Winkler on July 31, 2013, 08:15:11 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 31, 2013, 03:53:20 PMI think a lot of drivers, at least here on the East Coast, seem to have forgotten, or never learned, how to pass on two-lane roads, regardless of whether it's a "Super-2" or a regular old two-lane road. No doubt part of this may be due to a higher percentage of drivers hailing from, and learning to drive in, urban areas and not encountering two-lane roads nearly as often as was the case even 25 years ago. But I'm rather astonished whenever I drive on a two-lane road nowadays (other than a twisty mountain road) and I see how far back people stay even when the guy in front is a slowpoke. The reason it astonishes me is that on the Interstate or in urban areas, the same people are the ones glued to your rear bumper even if there's nowhere you can go. On a two-lane road it can sometimes be darn difficult to pass if you don't close up the gap first. I sometimes wonder how much of this is also a function of the prevalence of automatic-transmission vehicles simply in terms of many drivers not having the sense for understanding how the car's gearing can help execute the pass when necessary.

I think traffic volumes are a more important variable.  A two-lane road is considered to be operating at an acceptable level of service (which for this roadway type is defined in terms of percentage of driving time spent following other vehicles) at AADTs of up to 10,000 VPD in level terrain.  For rolling and mountainous terrain this value drops to 7,000 VPD and 5,000 VPD respectively.  This means that an increase in traffic that is small in both absolute and percentage terms is far more likely to "break" a two-lane road (in terms of LOS) than a four-lane freeway.

In Maryland the states (at least to some extent) must follow county (usually) and municipal (somewhat rarely, since we don't have that many municipalities) planning documents when it comes to the number of lanes in a road.  As a result, there are many two-lane roads that are well over capacity (Md. 32 in Howard County, Md. 27 in Montgomery, Howard and Carroll Counties and Md. 2 in Calvert and Anne Arundel Counties are probably three of the worst), yet the counties in these cases do not want to add lane capacity or  otherwise improve the road - and all of them have had some pretty severe wrecks over the years.

Quote from: J N Winkler on July 31, 2013, 08:15:11 PM
The East Coast butts up against the Appalachians, so a fair proportion of its two-lane rural arterial mileage falls within the rolling and mountainous categories.  This region of the country has also seen significant population growth, especially in the Baltimore-Washington area, and that kind of growth brings an increase in traffic volumes in periurban rural areas as well as suburbanization.  I would expect that in the last twenty years, there has been a considerable increase in the mileage of two-lane state highway for which it is no longer a realistic prospect to execute a successful overtaking maneuver during daylight hours.

In Maryland and Virginia, the suburban and exurban sprawl has only somewhat  reached out to the Blue Ridge and its foothills, and some of that is due to "leapfrog" development caused by agricultural preservation efforts by closer-in counties.

Quote from: J N Winkler on July 31, 2013, 08:15:11 PM
QuoteOne of the things that irks me about typical US road design is that two-lane roads often have a relatively narrow shoulder (if they have one at all) . . .

Shoulder provision is a function of state DOT design policy, which is typically less generous in this regard in Eastern states than in the Midwest or West, where it is increasingly the norm not just to build a shoulder, but also to surface it with a material that will support movement at high speed.

Most Maryland state highways classified as minor arterial or higher have shoulders of 10 or 12 feet if they were built or rebuilt since the 1960's.  Some older roads do not.  But the bigger contrast is crossing into Pennsylvania, where shoulders are pretty rare along arterial highways.  Especially annoying in places with high concentrations of Amish people, like Lancaster County, where there is substantial horse-drawn vehicular traffic. 

Three Maryland counties have substantial Amish populations, Cecil, Charles and St. Mary's.  Most of the state highways (always numbered) have decently wide shoulders, and those shoulders get a lot of use by horse-drawn traffic.

Quote from: J N Winkler on July 31, 2013, 08:15:11 PM
Quote. . . and even when there is a shoulder, the vast majority of drivers refuse to move to the right while maintaining speed to help others pass.

I think it is unrealistic to expect this courtesy as a matter of course, again because of state-by-state variation in design standards.  Some states extend the crossfall of the traveled way over the shoulder, while other states use a steeper crossfall on the shoulder.  In states that do the latter, a typical crossfall over the traveled way may be 2% (crossfalls range from about 1.5% to 2.5% in the US) while the shoulder crossfall is 4%.  It is difficult to steer smoothly while straddling a grade break that large.

I agree.  And in some places, driving on the shoulder, even for a good reason, can lead to a citation or summons.

Quote from: J N Winkler on July 31, 2013, 08:15:11 PM
There are also variations in how guardrail is treated, and how shoulder drainage is handled on superelevated curves.  Some states reduce shoulder width to accommodate guardrail.  Some states also start rolling out the superelevation on the high side of the road virtually at the edge line, which leaves only a very narrow width of shoulder that is suitable for maneuvering, generally to recover from tracking errors rather than to allow someone else to pass.

And then there is the SNAP pattern cut in to most paved shoulders now, which many people do not want to drive on, even though it is not supposed to do any damage to the car.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

hbelkins

Quote from: 1995hoo on July 31, 2013, 03:53:20 PM
Anyway, returning to Corridor H, if/when the West Virginia portion is ever finished, I'll be interested in seeing to what extent it siphons off any long-distance traffic that currently uses I-70 to I-68; going to southern Ohio, for example, it's easy to use Corridor H, I-79, and Corridor D, and for travel to Charleston and beyond out I-64 I could certainly see Corridor H to southbound I-79 being preferable to mixing it up with all the trucks on I-81.

This is the argument that I frequently had with the late Randy Hersh about Corridor H.

By rights, it should become the preferred route from St. Louis and points east to Washington, D.C. once it's finished. As of now, your choices are either to follow I-79/I-68/I-70/I-270, or I-77 (WV Turnpike) I-64/I-81/I-66. One goes too far out of the way to the north and involves having to deal with Cumberland, the other goes too far out of the way to the south, has tolls and a long underposted 60 mph section. An all I-70 route from STL eastward involves a short concurrency with I-57; going through Indy, Columbus and Wheeling; the substandard section in SW Pennsylvania; tolls on the PA Turnpike and Breezewood with its attendant traffic problems.

Even at this point, enough of Corridor H is finished that if I was driving to DC from Kentucky, I would not hesitate to use it despite having to deal with two-lane US 219 from Kerens to Davis over I-68.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

NE2

Yawn. You've definitely pushed this bogus talking point before. According to the Goog, Corridor H is 10 miles longer than 70-79-68-70-270. It's a tradeoff of cities on one route vs. cities on the other (I-64 to H also overlaps I-57, and passes through Louisville and Charleston). Creating a roughly equivalent alternate route is a poor reason for an expensive porkway.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

froggie

But remember, SPUI, HB hates cities and traffic.  So to him, the Corridor H route being longer is of no concern because it has less traffic.

NE2

#382
"No one drives on this highway. It's too crowded."

I can understand wanting to avoid traffic. But (a) the Corridor H routing also passes through major cities and (b) building a 150-mile four-lane through the mountains to serve the small amount of intercity traffic that would divert to it is not a reasonable use of pork funds.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

mtfallsmikey

Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 31, 2013, 03:39:44 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 31, 2013, 03:36:52 PM

(1) Higher speeds.

got it.  I think I'm just used to two-laners out west which may as well be super-2 given the lack of side roads. 


Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 31, 2013, 03:36:52 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 31, 2013, 03:00:45 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 31, 2013, 02:59:00 PM

Regarding four lane divided versus two lanes - most U.S. drivers do not know how to drive on a Super-2 type highway any longer (the old West Virginia Turnpike was a Super-2 for many years, and  had a pretty bad crash rate, as were the I-695 approaches to the Francis Scott Key Bridge), because such roads are rare in the U.S. and Canada.

what is so different about it it, with respect to a regular two-lane? 

(1) Higher speeds.

(2) More than a few drivers forget that they are on a two-lane highway (and not a four lane).  When I-95 was first completed from Bangor, Maine to Houlton, it was also a Super-2 (except at the interchanges).  There were many signs warning drivers that they were on a two-lane highway.

Md. 90 (Ocean City Expressway) in Worcester County is almost a Super-2, and has suffered plenty of head-on crashes, even with mandatory headlight use and special "rumble" treatment in the middle. 

You must be about the same age as I am....I remmeber when 66 was only open between Centreville to the Beltway...and 95 stopped at Rocky Mount N.C. I basically got my driving education driving on 301 all the way into fla. when we visited Dad's family..

Also, to keep things slightly on topic, if any of you are going for a cruise on corridor H, be sure to stop at the Stray Cat Cafe in moorefield, good Mexican food, ice cold beer... :nod:

1995hoo

Quote from: NE2 on August 01, 2013, 01:47:21 AM
Yawn. You've definitely pushed this bogus talking point before. According to the Goog, Corridor H is 10 miles longer than 70-79-68-70-270. It's a tradeoff of cities on one route vs. cities on the other (I-64 to H also overlaps I-57, and passes through Louisville and Charleston). Creating a roughly equivalent alternate route is a poor reason for an expensive porkway.

That's a rather serious red herring. "10 miles longer" doesn't automatically equal a longer travel time because it ignores so many other variables.

I'm not saying the cost of the road is/was justified; I'm speculating on how it might be used since it's indisputably there (in other words, it's pointless now to say the part already built shouldn't have been–rightly or wrongly, it has been). FWIW my dashcam picked up my comment to Ms1995hoo on Sunday that Corridor H is the ultimate pork-barrel project. Doesn't mean I can't/won't enjoy driving it.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: hbelkins on August 01, 2013, 12:26:21 AM
This is the argument that I frequently had with the late Randy Hersh about Corridor H.

By rights, it should become the preferred route from St. Louis and points east to Washington, D.C. once it's finished. As of now, your choices are either to follow I-79/I-68/I-70/I-270, or I-77 (WV Turnpike) I-64/I-81/I-66. One goes too far out of the way to the north and involves having to deal with Cumberland, the other goes too far out of the way to the south, has tolls and a long underposted 60 mph section. An all I-70 route from STL eastward involves a short concurrency with I-57; going through Indy, Columbus and Wheeling; the substandard section in SW Pennsylvania; tolls on the PA Turnpike and Breezewood with its attendant traffic problems.

Even at this point, enough of Corridor H is finished that if I was driving to DC from Kentucky, I would not hesitate to use it despite having to deal with two-lane US 219 from Kerens to Davis over I-68.

At least for the time being (and especially when it is completed to Davis next year (according to WVDOT), I agree with you (and at some point, eastern Corridor H may start to fill with some traffic - now it's a drivers delight).  Though I have only driven U.S. 219 between Davis and Kerens in daylight, and I presume there are a lot of critters (especially deer) along and in that road at dusk and at night.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

1995hoo

Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 01, 2013, 09:32:27 AM
At least for the time being (and especially when it is completed to Davis next year (according to WVDOT), I agree with you (and at some point, eastern Corridor H may start to fill with some traffic - now it's a drivers delight).  Though I have only driven U.S. 219 between Davis and Kerens in daylight, and I presume there are a lot of critters (especially deer) along and in that road at dusk and at night.

Earlier this year Car and Driver ran a one-page "story" about average number of deer collisions per miles driven (or something similar) that showed West Virginia having the highest rate in the country by a substantial margin. I just search their website but couldn't find that particular item, so the next time I have to pay a visit to the toilet I will check the magazine rack to try to find it!

As I noted earlier, the funny thing about the eastern portion of Corridor H is that while the traffic is light enough to allow you to go pretty much as fast as you want, the road has enough significant curves and hills to act as a natural check on your speed, depending of course on what you're driving and other variables. When I pushed it over 75 mph shortly after entering from the current western end at WV-93 I quickly backed off because it just felt too fast. No doubt I'd probably feel more comfortable going faster in my RX-7 than in my Acura sedan (the Acura is far more top-heavy by comparison), but the RX-7's engine is so much smaller and older that I probably couldn't go all that much faster!
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

hbelkins

Quote from: NE2 on August 01, 2013, 01:47:21 AM
Yawn. You've definitely pushed this bogus talking point before. According to the Goog, Corridor H is 10 miles longer than 70-79-68-70-270. It's a tradeoff of cities on one route vs. cities on the other (I-64 to H also overlaps I-57, and passes through Louisville and Charleston). Creating a roughly equivalent alternate route is a poor reason for an expensive porkway.

Yeah, but if you get your way and tear down I-64 in Louisville, the route will go around, not through.  :pan:

Traffic in Charleston really isn't an issue now with the completion of the second bridge for I-64 at South Charleston.

But the larger question is, why does Corridor H come under so much more criticism than the other ARC corridors? Why is it any different than, say, Columbus to Asheville? Cincinnati to Parkersburg and Clarksburg? London to Chattanooga by way of Somerset, Burkesville and Cookeville? Lake City to Pikeville? Pikeville to Charleston? Pikeville to Blacksburg/Christiansburg by way of Bluefield? Beckley to Sutton? Middlesboro/Harrogate to Morristown? Bedford to Corning/Elmira? Morgantown to Hancock? (Remember, I-68 is also an ARC corridor. Was it pork?)

The ARC corridors were intended to open up inaccessible areas for economic development.

Quote from: 1995hoo on August 01, 2013, 09:52:05 AM
Earlier this year Car and Driver ran a one-page "story" about average number of deer collisions per miles driven (or something similar) that showed West Virginia having the highest rate in the country by a substantial margin.

Doesn't surprise me. Anytime I travel I-79 in the fall, the carcass count never ceases to amaze me. And I remember meeting the guy at Lewisburg, WV who'd hit one the night before and said there were so many on I-64 between Lewisburg and I-81 that traffic was doing about 35 mph on the interstate.

Quote from: froggie on August 01, 2013, 02:08:45 AM
But remember, SPUI, HB hates cities and traffic.  So to him, the Corridor H route being longer is of no concern because it has less traffic.

Plus, I could very easily make up the time lost by those 10 extra miles and then some. The only real advantage the northern route has is that it avoids Virginia.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

1995hoo

Quote from: hbelkins on August 01, 2013, 10:25:49 AM
....

Quote from: froggie on August 01, 2013, 02:08:45 AM
But remember, SPUI, HB hates cities and traffic.  So to him, the Corridor H route being longer is of no concern because it has less traffic.

Plus, I could very easily make up the time lost by those 10 extra miles and then some. The only real advantage the northern route has is that it avoids Virginia.

Heh. One reason I like the Corridor H route is that it avoids Maryland (and, if I'm heading to Ohio, it also avoids Pennsylvania's substandard Interstates).




I found the Car and Driver item about the deer. It's on page 16 of the February 2013 issue and it includes a map showing the odds of hitting a deer in any given state as calculated by State Farm (they've been doing it since 2007). West Virginia has led the rankings every year. Odds for selected states:

Five most dangerous states:
West Virginia, 1:40
South Dakota, 1:68
Iowa and Michigan, 1:72
Pennsylvania, 1:76

Other states below 1:100–Montana (1:78), Wisconsin (1:79), and Minnesota (1:80); Virginia and Arkansas (1:103) and North Dakota (1:105) just miss.

Five least dangerous states:
Hawaii, 1:6801 (also the lowest in raw collision numbers with 134)
Arizona, 1:1658
Nevada, 1:1429
Florida, 1:991
California, 1:940

It says the total number of reported collisions between vehicles and deer in the U.S. "in the last reported year" was 1,231,710. Top five states in raw numbers of collisions: Pennsylvania (115,571), Michigan (97,856), New York (80,262), Ohio (67,699), and Wisconsin (52,525). That means those states taken together represented 33.6% of the total reported collisions. ("Reported collisions" is important because not everyone reports deer strikes and not all drivers are insured.)
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Bitmapped

Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 31, 2013, 07:54:13 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 30, 2013, 11:52:05 AM
A road that big should probably have cell tower coverage. 

Someone pointed out to me elsewhere that some or all of eastern Corridor H is within the United States National Radio Quiet Zone, which it is!

In addition to the relatively small (and spread-out) resident population, that might explain why there is relatively little cell phone coverage along most of eastern Corridor H.

NRQZ isn't the issue.  It's the low population and traffic levels relative to the expense because of the terrain causing the dead spots.

oscar

Quote from: 1995hoo on August 01, 2013, 10:46:08 AM
I found the Car and Driver item about the deer. It's on page 16 of the February 2013 issue and it includes a map showing the odds of hitting a deer in any given state as calculated by State Farm (they've been doing it since 2007). West Virginia has led the rankings every year. Odds for selected states:

Five least dangerous states:
Hawaii, 1:6801 (also the lowest in raw collision numbers with 134)

Plus, the average cost per collision is lower, since there are no native large mammals on the islands.  There's the occasional feral donkey or wayward horse, but pigs, dogs and cats, and birds are the biggest wildlife collision problems.  But if you run down a nene (Hawaiian goose, endangered by among other things their walking across roads without looking both ways first), the damage to your car can be the least of your problems.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

1995hoo

Quote from: oscar on August 01, 2013, 11:33:21 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 01, 2013, 10:46:08 AM
I found the Car and Driver item about the deer. It's on page 16 of the February 2013 issue and it includes a map showing the odds of hitting a deer in any given state as calculated by State Farm (they've been doing it since 2007). West Virginia has led the rankings every year. Odds for selected states:

Five least dangerous states:
Hawaii, 1:6801 (also the lowest in raw collision numbers with 134)

Plus, the average cost per collision is lower, since there are no native large mammals on the islands.  There's the occasional feral donkey or wayward horse, but pigs, dogs and cats, and birds are the biggest wildlife collision problems.  But if you run down a nene (Hawaiian goose, endangered by among other things their walking across roads without looking both ways first), the damage to your car can be the least of your problems.

Heh. I've never been to the Big Island, but I love this sign seen in a picture my brother took. (I suppose we're getting off topic.)

"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

oscar

Quote from: 1995hoo on August 01, 2013, 12:03:59 PM
(I suppose we're getting off topic.)

But worth it anyway.  I'd forgotten about that introduced species, or the interesting warning sign.  Thanks.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

agentsteel53

Quote from: 1995hoo on August 01, 2013, 10:46:08 AM
California, 1:940


the only state in which I've ever hit a deer.  I hit one once, and swerved into an embankment to avoid one, causing damage to the car, another time.  both times, though, I wasn't going particularly fast.

my closest call to a nasty accident was Utah - I came over a hill going about 50mph on UT-9 (the road to Zion) and there were two deer, one in each lane.  I drove between the two, with maybe a combined total of 6 inches of room to spare.
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

hbelkins

Quote from: 1995hoo on August 01, 2013, 10:46:08 AM
Heh. One reason I like the Corridor H route is that it avoids Maryland (and, if I'm heading to Ohio, it also avoids Pennsylvania's substandard Interstates).

Yeah, but my V-1 is not illegal in Maryland. It is in Virginia.  :bigass:


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1995hoo

Quote from: hbelkins on August 01, 2013, 12:58:56 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 01, 2013, 10:46:08 AM
Heh. One reason I like the Corridor H route is that it avoids Maryland (and, if I'm heading to Ohio, it also avoids Pennsylvania's substandard Interstates).

Yeah, but my V-1 is not illegal in Maryland. It is in Virginia.  :bigass:

True enough–well, it's illegal to use, not to possess, anyway. I have a V-1 as well from my law school days in North Carolina, though I haven't upgraded it to the newest model. I used to use it in Virginia all the time on trips to and from Durham by driving at night and using the concealed display module. Never got caught. What I always hated about using the V-1 in Maryland is that it seemed like on the I-95 corridor I got an inordinate number of false positives whenever I'd pass under an overpass. But that's when the bogey counter is nice because if it always says "1" and then suddenly one day it says "2," you know something's up.

I haven't used it in several years because lately I just don't usually go fast enough to bother. I wasn't at all concerned about getting nailed for speeding at 75 mph on Corridor H earlier this week, for example, even though the V-1 was in a drawer at home. I still enjoy the idea of going nice and fast, but the low Wife Acceptance Factor for extremely high speeds coupled with my appreciation for our rather low insurance premiums make me not bother very often.
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cpzilliacus

Quote from: 1995hoo on August 01, 2013, 09:52:05 AM
Earlier this year Car and Driver ran a one-page "story" about average number of deer collisions per miles driven (or something similar) that showed West Virginia having the highest rate in the country by a substantial margin. I just search their website but couldn't find that particular item, so the next time I have to pay a visit to the toilet I will check the magazine rack to try to find it!

I did not look very closely to see if any part of Corridor H (and I have driven the western part between Kerens and Weston in the past) is fenced.  Though  it might not matter that much, because the critters can enter at the at-grade intersections and at the interchanges.  Even on Md. 200, which is completely and heavily fenced, I nearly hit a deer on an exit ramp last week.

Quote from: 1995hoo on August 01, 2013, 09:52:05 AM
As I noted earlier, the funny thing about the eastern portion of Corridor H is that while the traffic is light enough to allow you to go pretty much as fast as you want, the road has enough significant curves and hills to act as a natural check on your speed, depending of course on what you're driving and other variables. When I pushed it over 75 mph shortly after entering from the current western end at WV-93 I quickly backed off because it just felt too fast. No doubt I'd probably feel more comfortable going faster in my RX-7 than in my Acura sedan (the Acura is far more top-heavy by comparison), but the RX-7's engine is so much smaller and older that I probably couldn't go all that much faster!

In my F250 truck, 65 felt "right" for most of Corridor H.   I had to downshift to maintain speed on some of the grades going up, and I deliberately downshifted to use the engine to keep me between 55 and 65 MPH on the long downward grade (westbound) to Moorefield since I had not driven it before.

Quote from: Bitmapped on August 01, 2013, 11:12:55 AM
NRQZ isn't the issue.  It's the low population and traffic levels relative to the expense because of the terrain causing the dead spots.

I do not know enough about radio waves to know what impact cell towers might have on the Quiet Zone, but I suppose that the cell tower antennae be designed to "direct" their signals where there is less (or no?) impact on the Green Bank Telescope and the National Security Agency's SIGINT gathering operations at Sugar Grove.

Quote from: hbelkins on August 01, 2013, 10:25:49 AM
But the larger question is, why does Corridor H come under so much more criticism than the other ARC corridors? Why is it any different than, say, Columbus to Asheville? Cincinnati to Parkersburg and Clarksburg? London to Chattanooga by way of Somerset, Burkesville and Cookeville? Lake City to Pikeville? Pikeville to Charleston? Pikeville to Blacksburg/Christiansburg by way of Bluefield? Beckley to Sutton? Middlesboro/Harrogate to Morristown? Bedford to Corning/Elmira? Morgantown to Hancock? (Remember, I-68 is also an ARC corridor. Was it pork?)

Excellent questions and observations. 

My answer is that Corridor H is closer to Washington, D.C., and there are people from the D.C. area that have moved to the Potomac Highlands counties of West Virginia to get away from it all, and do not want this nice new highway in their backyards (and perhaps some of them learned their anti-highway antics in the freeway wars of the D.C. area).  And there's the matter of the short section of the corridor in Frederick and Shenandoah Counties, which anti-highway activists in Virginia have (in the past) gotten all upset about.

Quote from: hbelkins on August 01, 2013, 10:25:49 AM
The ARC corridors were intended to open up inaccessible areas for economic development.

As a former head of planning for the Maryland State Highway Administration put it, I-68 (Corridor E) was about "inducing" demand and stimulating economic activity in the three Western Maryland counties that it serves, and in adjoining parts of West Virginia and Pennsylvania.

Quote from: hbelkins on August 01, 2013, 10:25:49 AM
Plus, I could very easily make up the time lost by those 10 extra miles and then some. The only real advantage the northern route has is that it avoids Virginia.

Even though I drive on its streets and highways every day, that is how I feel about the District of Columbia with its automated commuter tax collection devices ooops, automated speed enforcement systems all over the  city.
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oscar

Quote from: 1995hoo on August 01, 2013, 01:30:29 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on August 01, 2013, 12:58:56 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 01, 2013, 10:46:08 AM
Heh. One reason I like the Corridor H route is that it avoids Maryland (and, if I'm heading to Ohio, it also avoids Pennsylvania's substandard Interstates).

Yeah, but my V-1 is not illegal in Maryland. It is in Virginia.  :bigass:

True enough–well, it's illegal to use, not to possess, anyway. I have a V-1 as well from my law school days in North Carolina, though I haven't upgraded it to the newest model. I used to use it in Virginia all the time on trips to and from Durham by driving at night and using the concealed display module. Never got caught. What I always hated about using the V-1 in Maryland is that it seemed like on the I-95 corridor I got an inordinate number of false positives whenever I'd pass under an overpass. But that's when the bogey counter is nice because if it always says "1" and then suddenly one day it says "2," you know something's up.

I haven't used it in several years because lately I just don't usually go fast enough to bother. I wasn't at all concerned about getting nailed for speeding at 75 mph on Corridor H earlier this week, for example, even though the V-1 was in a drawer at home. I still enjoy the idea of going nice and fast, but the low Wife Acceptance Factor for extremely high speeds coupled with my appreciation for our rather low insurance premiums make me not bother very often.

I understand that the newest breed of radar detector detectors can sniff out V-1s in use.  I would assume that the Virginia and maybe D.C. cops have made the upgrade.  So I suggest you continue leaving your V-1 at home for short trips into WV (less hazardous environment than, say, Montgomery County MD).   
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seicer

Some of the opposition dealt with Corridor H running close to Dolly Sods Wilderness/Bear Rocks, adjacent to Canaan Valley National Wildlife Refuge (Canaan Valley (National Natural Landmark, unique northern boreal community, highest valley east of the Mississippi), its proximity to Greenland Gap (National Natural Landmark) among other naturally sensitive areas..

One of the early proposals for Corridor H, dating to the US 33 days, had the highway running through Greenland Gap. That was quickly eliminated for obvious reasons.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: Sherman Cahal on August 01, 2013, 02:25:41 PM
Some of the opposition dealt with Corridor H running close to Dolly Sods Wilderness/Bear Rocks, adjacent to Canaan Valley National Wildlife Refuge (Canaan Valley (National Natural Landmark, unique northern boreal community, highest valley east of the Mississippi), its proximity to Greenland Gap (National Natural Landmark) among other naturally sensitive areas..

Isn't that why Corridor H rather "threads the needle" where (when  headed west) it turns sharply to the north, bypassing Greenland Gap (on the right when going west and then north), and then the sharp turn to the west to cross W.Va. 93 on the (unopened) bridge and then another turn to the south and then west again to hook up with existing W.Va. 93 as it passes Dominion Virginia Power's coal-fired Mount Storm Generating Station? 

The selected route also bypasses Dolly Sods, which is left alone well to the south of Mount Storm Lake.

Quote from: Sherman Cahal on August 01, 2013, 02:25:41 PM
One of the early proposals for Corridor H, dating to the US 33 days, had the highway running through Greenland Gap. That was quickly eliminated for obvious reasons.

I thought the U.S. 33 alternative was well to the south of Greenland Gap and Dolly Sods?
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