Interstate 11

[kdk]

^^^^^^^^^^
From the various plans I've seen, ADOT has in essence abandoned any plans for a US 60-based freeway SE of the AZ 74 junction, electing instead for plans for a freeway more or less along 74 over to I-17 not too far from the present NE end of Loop 303.  Apparently that was done in part in response to the dense development along the 60/Grand Ave. corridor; it seems ADOT would rather pull their own teeth without anesthetic than exercise eminent domain (hence the planned corridors "out in the boonies") -- probably a defensive measure against the older residents who dominate the population in that part of the region and who might have more propensity for litigation if their properties were in jeopardy.  So ADOT is essentially -- at least in the long run -- planning to provide those entering the region via Wickenburg two options -- south to I-10 or east to I-17 (I have yet to hear about any proposed 3di status for the AZ 74 corridor -- but, then, this is AZ, with their long and bizarre history regarding 3di's!). 

If this is the case, then I'd reluctantly pick the AZ 74 corridor, which would be closer to Phoenix than the others.

The AZ 74 corridor is not a bad option.  I make the drive to Las Vegas from my home in Scottsdale about once per month on average.  In theory, taking I-10 up 303 to the 60 is the shortest route, and the route I take if it is a weekend.  However, being that I-10 west is insanely congested and will continue to get worse as the suburbs to the west grow (even with the opening of the 202 SMF and AZ 30) this route takes a lot longer.  I now will take I-17 north to AZ 74 to avoid this congestion and it's always the recommended route on Waze.  The only negative is AZ 74 is only two lanes with the exception of a couple of passing lanes, and is too busy to pass slow traffic for the most part.  So getting stuck behind a slow RV is usually the biggest issue, but still a fairly efficient route.

[sprjus4]

From the various plans I've seen, ADOT has in essence abandoned any plans for a US 60-based freeway SE of the AZ 74 junction, electing instead for plans for a freeway more or less along 74 over to I-17 not too far from the present NE end of Loop 303.  Apparently that was done in part in response to the dense development along the 60/Grand Ave. corridor; it seems ADOT would rather pull their own teeth without anesthetic than exercise eminent domain (hence the planned corridors "out in the boonies") -- probably a defensive measure against the older residents who dominate the population in that part of the region and who might have more propensity for litigation if their properties were in jeopardy.  So ADOT is essentially -- at least in the long run -- planning to provide those entering the region via Wickenburg two options -- south to I-10 or east to I-17 (I have yet to hear about any proposed 3di status for the AZ 74 corridor -- but, then, this is AZ, with their long and bizarre history regarding 3di's!).

There is currently not much development outside the AZ-303 loop. I certainly wouldn't attempt to plow an I-11 corridor down Grand Ave to a point like the AZ-101 loop. Outside AZ-303 is still do-able.

The routes that go way the f*** around the Phoenix metro add lots of extra miles to an I-11 drive between Las Vegas and Phoenix. The planners have to realize that will be by far the primary function of that route. The plans they're drawing up show entirely different priorities, some of which are pure pork (like the parallel route clear down to Nogales). At least one or more of the proposed routes is fraught with political controversy and will likely have tribal leadership doing their best to block it. It's as if those who are drawing up the plans are trying to bundle in every freaking potential outer loop highway concept possible for Phoenix and Tucson into this effort. The main thing that needs to be built is the direct Las Vegas to Phoenix element. All the rest of it is mostly fluff.

The entirety of I-11 is pure pork.  US 93 is sufficient.

Says someone from Tennessee.

[Avalanchez71]

From the various plans I've seen, ADOT has in essence abandoned any plans for a US 60-based freeway SE of the AZ 74 junction, electing instead for plans for a freeway more or less along 74 over to I-17 not too far from the present NE end of Loop 303.  Apparently that was done in part in response to the dense development along the 60/Grand Ave. corridor; it seems ADOT would rather pull their own teeth without anesthetic than exercise eminent domain (hence the planned corridors "out in the boonies") -- probably a defensive measure against the older residents who dominate the population in that part of the region and who might have more propensity for litigation if their properties were in jeopardy.  So ADOT is essentially -- at least in the long run -- planning to provide those entering the region via Wickenburg two options -- south to I-10 or east to I-17 (I have yet to hear about any proposed 3di status for the AZ 74 corridor -- but, then, this is AZ, with their long and bizarre history regarding 3di's!).

There is currently not much development outside the AZ-303 loop. I certainly wouldn't attempt to plow an I-11 corridor down Grand Ave to a point like the AZ-101 loop. Outside AZ-303 is still do-able.

The routes that go way the f*** around the Phoenix metro add lots of extra miles to an I-11 drive between Las Vegas and Phoenix. The planners have to realize that will be by far the primary function of that route. The plans they're drawing up show entirely different priorities, some of which are pure pork (like the parallel route clear down to Nogales). At least one or more of the proposed routes is fraught with political controversy and will likely have tribal leadership doing their best to block it. It's as if those who are drawing up the plans are trying to bundle in every freaking potential outer loop highway concept possible for Phoenix and Tucson into this effort. The main thing that needs to be built is the direct Las Vegas to Phoenix element. All the rest of it is mostly fluff.

The entirety of I-11 is pure pork.  US 93 is sufficient.

Says someone from Tennessee.

Well since you are from North Carolina you are pretty used to Porky Pig interstate projects. 

[sparker]

From the various plans I've seen, ADOT has in essence abandoned any plans for a US 60-based freeway SE of the AZ 74 junction, electing instead for plans for a freeway more or less along 74 over to I-17 not too far from the present NE end of Loop 303.  Apparently that was done in part in response to the dense development along the 60/Grand Ave. corridor; it seems ADOT would rather pull their own teeth without anesthetic than exercise eminent domain (hence the planned corridors "out in the boonies") -- probably a defensive measure against the older residents who dominate the population in that part of the region and who might have more propensity for litigation if their properties were in jeopardy.  So ADOT is essentially -- at least in the long run -- planning to provide those entering the region via Wickenburg two options -- south to I-10 or east to I-17 (I have yet to hear about any proposed 3di status for the AZ 74 corridor -- but, then, this is AZ, with their long and bizarre history regarding 3di's!).

There is currently not much development outside the AZ-303 loop. I certainly wouldn't attempt to plow an I-11 corridor down Grand Ave to a point like the AZ-101 loop. Outside AZ-303 is still do-able.

The routes that go way the f*** around the Phoenix metro add lots of extra miles to an I-11 drive between Las Vegas and Phoenix. The planners have to realize that will be by far the primary function of that route. The plans they're drawing up show entirely different priorities, some of which are pure pork (like the parallel route clear down to Nogales). At least one or more of the proposed routes is fraught with political controversy and will likely have tribal leadership doing their best to block it. It's as if those who are drawing up the plans are trying to bundle in every freaking potential outer loop highway concept possible for Phoenix and Tucson into this effort. The main thing that needs to be built is the direct Las Vegas to Phoenix element. All the rest of it is mostly fluff.

The entirety of I-11 is pure pork.  US 93 is sufficient.

Says someone from Tennessee.

Well since you are from North Carolina you are pretty used to Porky Pig interstate projects. 

Uhh -- look at his location; he's from VA, which is where Interstate projects go to die!

[silverback1065]

is i-11 supposed to go through Bend, Oregon?

[sprjus4]

Well since you are from North Carolina you are pretty used to Porky Pig interstate projects.

Close... Hampton Roads is close... I wouldn't call it NC though. Only 10 minutes away though, so who knows 

[sprjus4]

is i-11 supposed to go through Bend, Oregon?

If I'm not mistaken, it's supposed to end at I-80 in Reno.

[sprjus4]

which is where Interstate projects go to die!

Preaching to the choir... I think the last true interstate proposal was I-73. The last one constructed... well that'd be the original 5 from 1956. That could change by 2040... if I-87 is brought to I-64...  by constructing a few interchanges on existing rural limited-access road... or the Martinsville Southern Connector is built... 5 miles long... and I-73 is completed to the border in NC then up the MSC to US-58... but nothing else I could foresee after that. For a looooong time. A new interstate long-distancing across Virginia soil? Never.

(to be clear, I'm referring to long-distance 2-d, not 3-d)

[Avalanchez71]

is i-11 supposed to go through Bend, Oregon?

If I'm not mistaken, it's supposed to end at I-80 in Reno.

I just saw the I-87 NC shield and didn't look further.

[splashflash]

^^^^^^^^^^
From the various plans I've seen, ADOT has in essence abandoned any plans for a US 60-based freeway SE of the AZ 74 junction, electing instead for plans for a freeway more or less along 74 over to I-17 not too far from the present NE end of Loop 303.  Apparently that was done in part in response to the dense development along the 60/Grand Ave. corridor; it seems ADOT would rather pull their own teeth without anesthetic than exercise eminent domain (hence the planned corridors "out in the boonies") -- probably a defensive measure against the older residents who dominate the population in that part of the region and who might have more propensity for litigation if their properties were in jeopardy.  So ADOT is essentially -- at least in the long run -- planning to provide those entering the region via Wickenburg two options -- south to I-10 or east to I-17 (I have yet to hear about any proposed 3di status for the AZ 74 corridor -- but, then, this is AZ, with their long and bizarre history regarding 3di's!). 

If this is the case, then I'd reluctantly pick the AZ 74 corridor, which would be closer to Phoenix than the others.

The AZ 74 corridor is not a bad option.  I make the drive to Las Vegas from my home in Scottsdale about once per month on average.  In theory, taking I-10 up 303 to the 60 is the shortest route, and the route I take if it is a weekend.  However, being that I-10 west is insanely congested and will continue to get worse as the suburbs to the west grow (even with the opening of the 202 SMF and AZ 30) this route takes a lot longer.  I now will take I-17 north to AZ 74 to avoid this congestion and it's always the recommended route on Waze.  The only negative is AZ 74 is only two lanes with the exception of a couple of passing lanes, and is too busy to pass slow traffic for the most part.  So getting stuck behind a slow RV is usually the biggest issue, but still a fairly efficient route.

AZ 74 or down US 60 / Grand Ave is not an alignment of the latest three I-11 short-listed options.  All three of those have similar routes, due south from between AZ 71 and AZ 89 on US 93 west of Wickenburg.  A bypass of Wickenburg tying into AZ 74 may eventually be built, as shown by the southwest route option:

http://wickenburg.civilnet.sverdrup.com/Bypass/Maps/recommended%20corrs.jpg

The southern loop route option may supersede the southwest route as it looks like a it bestrides more of the chosen three routes heading to I-10.  It is interesting that the bypass route was not included, that I can see, among the options examined in the 2017 Alternatives Report.  Only one continued further down US60, option W.  Incidentally, it was dismissed because of the close proximity to the Hassayumpa River and loss of arterial road access if a limited access freeway were built straight down US60 to Morristown.  The bypass would have solved much of that issue.

Greenfields building was chosen over using existing highways such as the Sun Valley Parkway.  It was dismissed as a corridor because of access issues red-flagged for US60 (which would be worst in Wickenburg, but could have been avoided if the bypass were entertained).

The maps of the chosen corridors may be found at: http://origin.i11study.com/Arizona/Map.asp

[sparker]

is i-11 supposed to go through Bend, Oregon?

If I'm not mistaken, it's supposed to end at I-80 in Reno.

Most likely, from NDOT's preferences, I-11 will intersect I-80 somewhere around Fernley, about 35 miles east of Reno; Reno-bound (or originating) traffic will simply head east on I-80 to get to I-11 (in a similar fashion to today's most common surface route).  That's considered a reasonable place to effect the intersection; since it's where I-80 makes a drastic turn NE toward Winnemucca, so Idaho-bound traffic can head east, while Reno (and possibly CA or OR) traffic would head west.  If I-11 is eventually continued northward, it can multiplex in either direction, depending upon where it's eventually planned to go.  Don't expect any northward action for the next 25-30 years, however -- unless the Boise/Treasure Valley population increased by leaps & bounds over its present rate of growth.

All this has been previously discussed in some detail within the I-11 northern extension thread in Southwest, including the pros and cons of Boise vs. Oregon as an ultimate (or penultimate, if those wanting to drag the corridor all the way to Canada have their way) destination. 

[nexus73]

is i-11 supposed to go through Bend, Oregon?

If I'm not mistaken, it's supposed to end at I-80 in Reno.

Most likely, from NDOT's preferences, I-11 will intersect I-80 somewhere around Fernley, about 35 miles east of Reno; Reno-bound (or originating) traffic will simply head east on I-80 to get to I-11 (in a similar fashion to today's most common surface route).  That's considered a reasonable place to effect the intersection; since it's where I-80 makes a drastic turn NE toward Winnemucca, so Idaho-bound traffic can head east, while Reno (and possibly CA or OR) traffic would head west.  If I-11 is eventually continued northward, it can multiplex in either direction, depending upon where it's eventually planned to go.  Don't expect any northward action for the next 25-30 years, however -- unless the Boise/Treasure Valley population increased by leaps & bounds over its present rate of growth.

All this has been previously discussed in some detail within the I-11 northern extension thread in Southwest, including the pros and cons of Boise vs. Oregon as an ultimate (or penultimate, if those wanting to drag the corridor all the way to Canada have their way) destination. 

Boise's urban area is expected to hit a million within 5 years.  What would be "leaps and bounds" over that?  Two million?  Five million?  10 million?  IMO the exact population is irrelevant.  What counts is the traffic count.  Is there enough for Boise to Reno traffic to justify I-11 going that way? 

Look at a map of the Boise area.  See what a mess it is to go from there to US 95?  That is where an I-380 would be the solution.  Get down to Homedale. bypass the town and end the freeway at the Oregon border.  US 95 in Oregon is a 70 MPH highway.  There are no real towns or cities along it.  Cross into Nevada for some rinkydink hamlet. then see empty road all the way to Winnemucca.  If Nevada's speed limit on US 95 is not already 70 MPH. it should be. 

By going with an I-380 you get the Boise urban area traffic situation in a better way and make it real easy to get to and from Boise when US 95 is part of the route.  Win-win!  No need for an I-11 to Boise unless the truck traffic climbs to I-40 levels.  I do not see that happening.  Just add in some short 4-lane stretches and 3-lane stretches for passing what trucks, RV's and slowpokes are present.  That will get us to 2050 short of a gold rush in the middle of nowhere...LOL!

Rick

[sparker]

^^^^^^^^
Like I said re a Boise connector -- a long-term prospect, no more, no less; probably 25-30 years if at all -- and who knows what'll happen by then.  But shouldn't your idea be an I-384 since it'll branch off I-84 rather than I-80?  Or -- since it'll terminate at US 95, I-584. 

[nexus73]

^^^^^^^^
Like I said re a Boise connector -- a long-term prospect, no more, no less; probably 25-30 years if at all -- and who knows what'll happen by then.  But shouldn't your idea be an I-384 since it'll branch off I-84 rather than I-80?  Or -- since it'll terminate at US 95, I-584. 

Typo.

Rick

[sprjus4]

is i-11 supposed to go through Bend, Oregon?

If I'm not mistaken, it's supposed to end at I-80 in Reno.

I just saw the I-87 NC shield and didn't look further.

I support the route, which would be mainly in North Carolina, but it would connect into Hampton Roads, where I'm at.

[silverback1065]

does boise even need any more interstates?

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^^ if they keep up their growth they will.

[Rothman]

I don't even know where an additional interstate would go in Boise.  Terrain's an issue on the northside, at least.  Don't think there's a need for a I-x84 route to the south of I-84.

[US 89]

I don't even know where an additional interstate would go in Boise.  Terrain's an issue on the northside, at least.  Don't think there's a need for a I-x84 route to the south of I-84.

ID 16 is proposed to be extended south from US 20/26 to I-84, as a freeway. The existing portion between 20/26 and ID 44 is currently a four-lane expressway with a 65 mph speed limit.

[nexus73]

I don't even know where an additional interstate would go in Boise.  Terrain's an issue on the northside, at least.  Don't think there's a need for a I-x84 route to the south of I-84.

Given the maze of surface streets between US 95, the primary conduit to Boise from the south and Boise itself, which is expected to hit for 1 million within 5 years, I would definitely say there had better be an I-x84 between these two points.  Smooth out the city traffic and accommodate the long range stuff and do it before land and construction costs climb any more.  Think ahead!

Rick

[sparker]

^^^^^^^^^^
Rick makes a decent point -- do you build a facility based on statistical extrapolation and stay ahead of the curve re inflation or wait until doing so is a clear and present necessity?  In this case a reasonable "middle ground" could be achieved in the near term by building a spur freeway as discussed above between I-84 somewhere in the Caldwell area SW roughly along ID 55 to US 95 west of Marsing -- to at least ensure that the ROW in that growing area isn't compromised -- with the potential to extend it down US 95 to I-80 when the need for that facility arises. 

[Mark68]

^^^^^^^^^^
Rick makes a decent point -- do you build a facility based on statistical extrapolation and stay ahead of the curve re inflation or wait until doing so is a clear and present necessity?  In this case a reasonable "middle ground" could be achieved in the near term by building a spur freeway as discussed above between I-84 somewhere in the Caldwell area SW roughly along ID 55 to US 95 west of Marsing -- to at least ensure that the ROW in that growing area isn't compromised -- with the potential to extend it down US 95 to I-80 when the need for that facility arises. 

Maybe an I-284 along the southern periphery from somewhere near Exit 64 (Blacks Creek Rd), roughly following Kuna Mora Rd, Tenmile Creek Rd, Hubbard Rd, Deer Flat Rd, south of Lake Lowell, then north somewhere around Chicken Dinner Rd (LOL), then northeasterly toward Exit 25 (ID 44/Middleton).

[doorknob60]

They have made some modest upgrades on ID-55 between I-84 (Nampa) and US-95 (Marsing) in the past few years, but nothing groundbreaking. Mostly improving intersections by adding more/better turn lanes, adding some signals, and a bit of widening. Plus repaving (the previous pavement quality was bad). It is a far better highway now than it was the first time I went on it (around 2012). It is mostly a 2 lane highway still, though. I don't see any major changes beyond possibly widening what's there to 4-5 lanes, though. Which I think would be adequate for the foreseeable future. The only real problem is at the Karcher Rd./Caldwell Blvd intersection in Nampa right off the freeway. Not sure what can be done about that, but once you're past that it's mostly smooth sailing unless it's in the heart of rush hour.

There hasn't been any serious discussions of any other freeways around Boise, besides the ID-16 freeway that's already partially constructed and the rest is in planning stages. People throw out the idea of a southern bypass, but I don't think that is likely in my lifetime, never heard an official agency so much as mention it. It would be quite expensive, and I don't think it would be a huge benefit, primarily only serving through traffic (which is a valid, but it's not a big percentage of traffic).

More useful potential pie in the sky freeway corridors come to mind along State St, Chinden (US-20/26), or Eagle Rd (ID-55), but I think it's far too late to do anything with those (other than maybe grade separating a couple intersections along Eagle Rd, notably Franklin or Fairview), and I think solutions like the "ThrU Turn" at State St and Veterans Memorial Parkway, or contra-flow left turns like they may be planning for some parts of Chinden between Meridian and Caldwell, in addition to some modest widening (6 lanes), signal adjustments, and maybe bus and/or HOV lanes will have to do the trick.

[sparker]

^^^^^^^^^
This discussion has started mixing apples and oranges (typical when "detoured" away from the original thread subject).  I'm certain that any number of bypass or spur iterations closer to Boise would enhance the prospect of local commute travel or congestion relief -- but the Caldwell-Marsing spur previously suggested would address a particular situation -- how to expedite traffic from southward US 95 to I-84 via a limited-access facility -- something that would certainly come in handy if, down the line, an Interstate connector to I-80 was deemed appropriate.   At this point, we're not talking about incremental changes to the existing ID 55 corridor that presently serves this purpose but rather a new-terrain facility roughly parallel to it.  Now -- whether such a project is politically or fiscally feasible would have to be determined.  It's possible such a project could be divided into a couple of phases -- identifying the alignment and acquiring the ROW would be job #1; once that was done, actual construction could occur whenever fiscally possible.  Since the area seems to feature new residential tracts on a regular basis, ROW preservation -- for any project, not just this one -- would be a necessary first step.   

[Sub-Urbanite]

Random, stupid, useless musing: Why not go ahead and co-sign I-11 on I-40 for the 93 segment?