New York State Thruway

[empirestate]

ESRI and CityLab generated a map superimposing the border zone over the country. I CANNOT find a definitive government source. That being said, every news source I can find considers Chesapeake Bay, Long Island Sound, Puget Sound, and all 5 of the Great Lakes to have an "international border" at their shoreline, including NPR, the NY Times, the Washington Post, and the big 3 broadcast networks.

Try NOAA charts and publications; they should depict the baseline of the territorial sea.

[kalvado]

ESRI and CityLab generated a map superimposing the border zone over the country. I CANNOT find a definitive government source. That being said, every news source I can find considers Chesapeake Bay, Long Island Sound, Puget Sound, and all 5 of the Great Lakes to have an "international border" at their shoreline, including NPR, the NY Times, the Washington Post, and the big 3 broadcast networks.

Try NOAA charts and publications; they should depict the baseline of the territorial sea.

It is more of a question of how CBP interprets that. I would bet they do in the most convenient way for their purposes - e.g. to cover as much territory as they can. If Lake Michigan is considered the border (probably based on boats coming from the Seaway not clearing customs until docked), then one may only be happy entire length of Hudson or Mississippi are not con...sorry, not giving any ideas.

[Beltway]

ESRI and CityLab generated a map superimposing the border zone over the country. I CANNOT find a definitive government source. That being said, every news source I can find considers Chesapeake Bay, Long Island Sound, Puget Sound, and all 5 of the Great Lakes to have an "international border" at their shoreline, including NPR, the NY Times, the Washington Post, and the big 3 broadcast networks.

The Chesapeake Bay is contained in Maryland and Virginia, so there is no "international border" there.  The mouth of the Chesapeake Bay borders on the high seas, and that is not an "international border".

[empirestate]

ESRI and CityLab generated a map superimposing the border zone over the country. I CANNOT find a definitive government source. That being said, every news source I can find considers Chesapeake Bay, Long Island Sound, Puget Sound, and all 5 of the Great Lakes to have an "international border" at their shoreline, including NPR, the NY Times, the Washington Post, and the big 3 broadcast networks.

Try NOAA charts and publications; they should depict the baseline of the territorial sea.

It is more of a question of how CBP interprets that. I would bet they do in the most convenient way for their purposes - e.g. to cover as much territory as they can. If Lake Michigan is considered the border (probably based on boats coming from the Seaway not clearing customs until docked), then one may only be happy entire length of Hudson or Mississippi are not con...sorry, not giving any ideas.

Well, I don't think there's a way to interpret the territorial waters as excluding the Hudson or Mississippi Rivers. The Great Lakes are a special case, for the reason you pointed out (while territorial waters, they are free of customs reporting requirements until a vessel is actually landed).

[MikeCL]

I was shocked to see how quick they have the New Rochelle Cashless lanes going.

[shadyjay]

I don't believe its how they did it, due to a picture I saw, but, I would have routed all traffic through the semi-express lanes on the far left of the plaza (where I-95 SB bends to go around the plaza), and demolished the old cash lanes.  Then straightened out both directions with a standard 3-lanes each way.  From Google streetside images, it looks like there's some abandoned pavement in there too, which I'm guessing will be ripped out.  Did they end up building a whole new gantry there, either before or after the plaza? 

As for Spring Valley, that one I'm guessing would be really easy.  It already had an open-road gantry.  Close off the "exit" to the cash lanes and just return that section to "nature". 

[MikeCL]

They built it after the plaza but yes all the traffic right now goes around to the ez pass lanes but I hope it's going to be wide enough because before the toll plaza it's super wide but after it's so narrow even before all this work after.

[webny99]

I might as well ask, as per the usual, if anyone else is driving the Thruway this holiday season.

I got to do Rochester to Buffalo and back on Sunday 12/23. Traffic was heavy, but not unreasonably so. I stayed well behind an 80mph bandwagon, and as such never really had an empty stretch. I tried to keep a consistent ~77mph, while everyone else did the usual "speed up to 80+ and then brake to accommodate slower passers" thing.

[jp the roadgeek]

ESRI and CityLab generated a map superimposing the border zone over the country. I CANNOT find a definitive government source. That being said, every news source I can find considers Chesapeake Bay, Long Island Sound, Puget Sound, and all 5 of the Great Lakes to have an "international border" at their shoreline, including NPR, the NY Times, the Washington Post, and the big 3 broadcast networks.

The Chesapeake Bay is contained in Maryland and Virginia, so there is no "international border" there.  The mouth of the Chesapeake Bay borders on the high seas, and that is not an "international border".

In the case of Chesapeake Bay and Long Island Sount, they may be referring to the fact that there are US ports of entry contained within these bodies of water, not that the body of water itself is a border.  The Port of Baltimore for the Chesapeake, and the port of New London for LI Sound serve as ports of entry for cruise ships that sail to international ports of call.  In addition to these, there are also the Ports of New Haven and Bridgeport for cargo receiving.

[Beltway]

ESRI and CityLab generated a map superimposing the border zone over the country. I CANNOT find a definitive government source. That being said, every news source I can find considers Chesapeake Bay, Long Island Sound, Puget Sound, and all 5 of the Great Lakes to have an "international border" at their shoreline, including NPR, the NY Times, the Washington Post, and the big 3 broadcast networks.

The Chesapeake Bay is contained in Maryland and Virginia, so there is no "international border" there.  The mouth of the Chesapeake Bay borders on the high seas, and that is not an "international border".

In the case of Chesapeake Bay and Long Island Sount, they may be referring to the fact that there are US ports of entry contained within these bodies of water, not that the body of water itself is a border.  The Port of Baltimore for the Chesapeake, and the port of New London for LI Sound serve as ports of entry for cruise ships that sail to international ports of call.  In addition to these, there are also the Ports of New Haven and Bridgeport for cargo receiving.

That then would include the Great Lakes and partway up the Mississippi River.  The "international ports of call" is rather a different concept than "international borders at their shoreline".

[kalvado]

ESRI and CityLab generated a map superimposing the border zone over the country. I CANNOT find a definitive government source. That being said, every news source I can find considers Chesapeake Bay, Long Island Sound, Puget Sound, and all 5 of the Great Lakes to have an "international border" at their shoreline, including NPR, the NY Times, the Washington Post, and the big 3 broadcast networks.

The Chesapeake Bay is contained in Maryland and Virginia, so there is no "international border" there.  The mouth of the Chesapeake Bay borders on the high seas, and that is not an "international border".

In the case of Chesapeake Bay and Long Island Sount, they may be referring to the fact that there are US ports of entry contained within these bodies of water, not that the body of water itself is a border.  The Port of Baltimore for the Chesapeake, and the port of New London for LI Sound serve as ports of entry for cruise ships that sail to international ports of call.  In addition to these, there are also the Ports of New Haven and Bridgeport for cargo receiving.

That then would include the Great Lakes and partway up the Mississippi River.  The "international ports of call" is rather a different concept than "international borders at their shoreline".

Add port of Albany on Hudson in Albany NY as another CBP serviced entry location..
And I suspect CBP will happily consider that as a border point until the issue is addressed by the court. As far as I understand, part of it is about having officers busy while there is little pax/cargo flow, and officers have no direct port of entry duties. So they need more areas to work, not less.

[Beltway]

That then would include the Great Lakes and partway up the Mississippi River.  The "international ports of call" is rather a different concept than "international borders at their shoreline".

Add port of Albany on Hudson in Albany NY as another CBP serviced entry location..
And I suspect CBP will happily consider that as a border point until the issue is addressed by the court. As far as I understand, part of it is about having officers busy while there is little pax/cargo flow, and officers have no direct port of entry duties. So they need more areas to work, not less.

Tthe upper Chesapeake Bay belongs to Maryland, and the lower Chesapeake Bay belongs to Virginia.  Therefore the Bay is part of the internal territorial waters of the U.S.

The amount of control a state has over a bay is based on the distance between the low-water line on either side of the bay's entrance.  If the entrance is equal to or less than 24 miles wide at low-tide, then a state may draw a straight baseline across the entrance, effectively making the entire bay internal waters.  If the entrance is more than 24 miles wide, a state can only draw a straight baseline 24 miles across the bay in a way that maximizes the area of internal waters.

[mrsman]

I think it's so stupid for them to change half the signs from the tappen see to the new MCMB half the signs I see going home still have the old name.. also I think same for the battery tunnel (yeah I know different area) but it's like I don't get it.

Agreed.  While I would prefer if these bridges did not get renamed in the first place, I believe the new names for such bridges should include the old name in all signage:

RFK Triboro Bridge
Ed Koch Queensoro Bridge
Hugh Carey Battery Tunnel
Mario Cuomo Tappan Zee Bridge

[empirestate]

I think it's so stupid for them to change half the signs from the tappen see to the new MCMB half the signs I see going home still have the old name.. also I think same for the battery tunnel (yeah I know different area) but it's like I don't get it.

Agreed.  While I would prefer if these bridges did not get renamed in the first place, I believe the new names for such bridges should include the old name in all signage:

RFK Triboro Bridge
Ed Koch Queensoro Bridge
Hugh Carey Battery Tunnel
Mario Cuomo Tappan Zee Bridge

One subtle difference here is that the Mario Cuomo Bridge is actually a new bridge–a different structure than the Tappan Zee Bridge it replaced, not merely a renaming. That said, it is the bridge that crosses the Tappan Zee, so people are just gonna call it the Tappan Zee bridge.

[ipeters61]

I think it's so stupid for them to change half the signs from the tappen see to the new MCMB half the signs I see going home still have the old name.. also I think same for the battery tunnel (yeah I know different area) but it's like I don't get it.

Agreed.  While I would prefer if these bridges did not get renamed in the first place, I believe the new names for such bridges should include the old name in all signage:

RFK Triboro Bridge
Ed Koch Queensoro Bridge
Hugh Carey Battery Tunnel
Mario Cuomo Tappan Zee Bridge

One subtle difference here is that the Mario Cuomo Bridge is actually a new bridge–a different structure than the Tappan Zee Bridge it replaced, not merely a renaming. That said, it is the bridge that crosses the Tappan Zee, so people are just gonna call it the Tappan Zee bridge.

Well and it was in the same place for the past 50 years, likely is being used by people who have used it for decades, and is used by the same stretch of road.  The name "Tappan Zee Bridge" isn't going anywhere any time soon.  Did any signage change with the name "Cuomo Bridge"?

Likewise, nobody calls the Thruway the Dewey Thruway.

[PHLBOS]

Did any signage change with the name "Cuomo Bridge"?

Some of the signs in the immediate area were changed to read Gov. Mario Cuomo Bridge but further out, most of the signs weren't changed.  An LED VMS along the northbound GSP that lists the travel times to the bridge still (thankfully IMHO) lists such as the Tappan Zee Bridge.

It is my understanding that the name Tappan Zee existed decades before the original bridge was built and refers to the general region at the Hudson.

[cl94]

It is my understanding that the name Tappan Zee existed decades before the original bridge was built and refers to the general region at the Hudson.

Correct. Tappan Zee has been the name of the area for 200-400 years. Tappan is a corruption of the Lenape name for the local tribe and the region, Zee is Dutch for "sea".

[ixnay]

Growing up reading maps of metro NYC in the '70s, whenever I gazed upon the mapped TZ Bridge and the part of the Hudson it spanned, I always thought of Tappan appliances (remember them) being given away on game shows (and vice versa).

As for the old and new TZB themselves, are they waiting for all traces of the original TZB to be removed before opening up the Nyack-bound cable stayed span?

ixnay

[Alps]

Growing up reading maps of metro NYC in the '70s, whenever I gazed upon the mapped TZ Bridge and the part of the Hudson it spanned, I always thought of Tappan appliances (remember them) being given away on game shows (and vice versa).

As for the old and new TZB themselves, are they waiting for all traces of the original TZB to be removed before opening up the Nyack-bound cable stayed span?

ixnay

It's all open, but they're constructing a pedestrian path on the WB side, so the right half is closed.

[kalvado]

Growing up reading maps of metro NYC in the '70s, whenever I gazed upon the mapped TZ Bridge and the part of the Hudson it spanned, I always thought of Tappan appliances (remember them) being given away on game shows (and vice versa).

As for the old and new TZB themselves, are they waiting for all traces of the original TZB to be removed before opening up the Nyack-bound cable stayed span?

ixnay

It's all open, but they're constructing a pedestrian path on the WB side, so the right half is closed.

Not directly related.. but I wonder if pedestrian path is envisioned as purely transportation (and how much use would that get?) or supposed to have a recreational function as well (or primarily recreational?). Google shows almost 4 miles from on ramp to off ramp...

[Alps]

Growing up reading maps of metro NYC in the '70s, whenever I gazed upon the mapped TZ Bridge and the part of the Hudson it spanned, I always thought of Tappan appliances (remember them) being given away on game shows (and vice versa).

As for the old and new TZB themselves, are they waiting for all traces of the original TZB to be removed before opening up the Nyack-bound cable stayed span?

ixnay

It's all open, but they're constructing a pedestrian path on the WB side, so the right half is closed.

Not directly related.. but I wonder if pedestrian path is envisioned as purely transportation (and how much use would that get?) or supposed to have a recreational function as well (or primarily recreational?). Google shows almost 4 miles from on ramp to off ramp...

It's a path. It connects to both sides. You decide what you want it to be.

[kalvado]

It's a path. It connects to both sides. You decide what you want it to be.

Well, not really. If it is recreational - there needs to be a reasonable parking lot, preferably one on each side, to access the path. And some reasonable cleaning service.
If it is mostly transportation, a reasonable connection to street sidewalks on both sides is a must. Not to mention some bicycle accommodations.
If it is a gimmick to crazy urbanists without envisioned use, then so be it.

[Alps]

It's a path. It connects to both sides. You decide what you want it to be.

Well, not really. If it is recreational - there needs to be a reasonable parking lot, preferably one on each side, to access the path. And some reasonable cleaning service.
If it is mostly transportation, a reasonable connection to street sidewalks on both sides is a must. Not to mention some bicycle accommodations.
If it is a gimmick to crazy urbanists without envisioned use, then so be it.

There is parking and connectivity on both sides, once it's done.

[PHLBOS]

It's a path. It connects to both sides. You decide what you want it to be.

Well, not really. If it is recreational - there needs to be a reasonable parking lot, preferably one on each side, to access the path. And some reasonable cleaning service.
If it is mostly transportation, a reasonable connection to street sidewalks on both sides is a must. Not to mention some bicycle accommodations.
If it is a gimmick to crazy urbanists without envisioned use, then so be it.

There is parking and connectivity on both sides, once it's done.

It is my understanding that all newly-constructed bridges now have to have provisions for all non-motorized transportation modes (i.e. pedestrians & bicycles) built in.

[cl94]

It is my understanding that all newly-constructed bridges now have to have provisions for all non-motorized transportation modes (i.e. pedestrians & bicycles) built in.

Correct, all major crossings need to have a bike/ped path, no matter how remote or useless it may look. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't add THAT much to the cost. In the case of Tappan Zee, the bike/ped path allowed them to run 8 lanes on the WB span until the EB span was completed.